Million Dollar Baby

[NoCalMike 0]

I finally saw it tonight and I thought it was great. My only criticism, is that I felt that the scenes with Swank's redneck family didn't even need to be there. I mean for starters we didn't get much if any backstory on why the mom was the bitch that she was, so it kind of just felt like her family was just put on screen to make us feel even more sorry for her. I would have been perfectly happy if all we ever knew about her family is what we heard in from Morgan Freeman's narration about Maggie knowing she came from trash and all........

[iggymcfly 0]

I haven't actually seen it, but I saw Skip Bayless complain that the whole boxing storyline was completely unrealistic and had a bunch of plot holes? Is this true?

 

It's just weird to see one person decry it as utter shit when it's being almost universally praised everywhere else.

[Guest Boomer Sprinklespax]

I don't know how realistic the portions concerning boxing are, but who gives a shit, anyways? It's not like M$B is strictly a sports movie, it's a drama about how the characters react to and influence each other. Whatever unrealistic qualities there are function just fine for the movie, and bottom line is it doesn't FEEL unrealistic (except for the "twist," maybe). Thusly, it doesn't matter.

[iggymcfly 0]

No, not the actual boxing scenes. Just stuff like how she'd won a fight on the undercard of a heavyweight title match before training with Clint Eastwood, but when she started, it was like she'd never boxed before. The "twist" was referred to as well.

 

On the other hand though, I know Skip Bayless tends to bitch for the sake of bitching, which makes me not want to lend it too much creedence unless I hear the same thing from another source.

[Stephen Joseph 0]

Skip is just bitching...She won a fight on the undercard of some piddly belt in a backwater place...not a real heavyweight fighter.

 

The entire movie was done just about as good as you can do a movie. The amount of leveling (ways you can interpret a movie) was astounding. The fact that one character you felt sorry for but never understood represented something about her that you dont realize until the very end, was quite impressive.

 

The score, the contrasting of light and dark (which was everywhere, even in the casting) and remarkable performances (freeman definitely deserved his award)

 

And I think there was alot to be said for including her family. It etched her self-made woman image all the more real...she'd been fighting her whole life...we only saw her fighting since the time frame the movie started in.

[nl5xsk1 0]

Hey, can someone that's seen the movie send me a PM with the "surprise twist" or just post it here in spoiler-mode? I don't think that I'll ever see the movie, but people keep talking about the twist at the end ... so if someone could hook me up with what that is, it'd be greatly appreciated.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

You should really see the movie. It deserved its Best Picture win.

[Stephen Joseph 0]

Hey, can someone that's seen the movie send me a PM with the "surprise twist" or just post it here in spoiler-mode? I don't think that I'll ever see the movie, but people keep talking about the twist at the end ... so if someone could hook me up with what that is, it'd be greatly appreciated.

She's paralyzed by an illegal after the round hit by the champion that breaks her neck on the stool put out for her to sit down. Later, after trying to kill herself repeatedly, Clint's character injects alot of adrenaline into her IV to mercy-kill her

 

I found the depiction of the priest to be a little unfair. Some are like that, but some are the opposite. A little too unfavorable of an image of religion.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

I liked the priest, and I feel the advice that he gave Eastwood was good advice. Look what happens to Eastwood's character afterwards.

[bob_barron 0]

I thought the priest was given a very favourable view in the film. Everything he said to Eastwood I agree with.

 

At the end when him and Eastwood discuss whether to kill Maggie- what he says is absolutely right.

[nl5xsk1 0]

Hey, SJ, thanks for the spoiler ... truth be told, what you said makes me want to see the movie more than anything else that they've hyped. Maybe I'll end up checking it out after all now.

 

Many thanks.

[Stephen Joseph 0]

I thought the priest was given a very favourable view in the film. Everything he said to Eastwood I agree with.

 

At the end when him and Eastwood discuss whether to kill Maggie- what he says is absolutely right.

A priest cusses and generally degrades a patron? What he said yeah, for the priest is right, but still

 

I thought the very end of the movie showed that he had made his peace.

[Toshiaki Koala 0]

Seriously, who the fuck is Skip Bayless?

 

Very good movie, by the way. It's the only Best Picture nominee I saw this year, but definitely Best Picture material.

[bob_barron 0]

I thought the priest was given a very favourable view in the film. Everything he said to Eastwood I agree with.

 

At the end when him and Eastwood discuss whether to kill Maggie- what he says is absolutely right.

A priest cusses and generally degrades a patron? What he said yeah, for the priest is right, but still

 

I thought the very end of the movie showed that he had made his peace.

Well Eastwood had been coming for 20 something years- and was kind of an asshole to the priest. I don't think the priest would degrade a normal everyday patron, but given the relationship he and Eastwood had- I think it was natural for him to speak to him that way.

[NoCalMike 0]

Oh yeah I forgot to add this the other night(I was tired)

 

I felt that that foreign "dirty" fighter that ended up paralysing Maggie, was a little on the unrealistic side. I mean I have never seen any fighter ever in life that is THAT DIRTY, and I watch a lot of boxing. Also, she would have been DQ'd immediately after that cheap hit when Maggie was down, the one that busted her eye open. I didn't mind that actual cheap shot that sent her down and to hit the stool, however the fight would have been over long before that even took place.

 

I really enjoyed this movie, but I would have given Best Picture to Hotel Rwanda.

[godthedog 0]

huzzah.

 

“Million Dollar Baby” is a simple movie about the Grizzled Old Boxing Manager/Gym Owner, the Old Friend/Former Boxer/Janitor at the gym, and the Plucky Young Waitress/Amateur Boxer/Girl with a Dream. Clint Eastwood is the Grizzled Old Manager. Morgan Freeman is the Old Friend. Hilary Swank is the Plucky Young Waitress.

 

To call this movie a well-oiled machine would be true, but misleading. True in that it’s a standard Underdog/Surrogate Family story told by skilled craftsmen who have been working in the industry for decades. These people know exactly how to make each detail work in the most straightforward, conventional, systematic way possible. The script follows the standard Hollywood three act format, replete with snappy dialogue like “Girlie, tough ain’t enough,” and no wasted moments. From his very first line, you know that the Old Friend who narrates the film will spend most of his voiceover time talking about boxing as a metaphor for life. Once you see the Grizzled Old Manager tell the Plucky Young Waitress that he doesn’t train girls, you know that ten minutes of screen time won’t pass before he’s training her. When he tells her not to call him “Boss,” you know that she’ll spend the rest of the movie calling him that, and that it’ll become a term of endearment. Once you find out that the Grizzled Old Manager hasn’t spoken to his daughter in years, and that the Plucky Young Waitress’s father is dead, you know they’ll form a makeshift family based on the mutual love of boxing. There are no surprises in the first hour and a half or so of this movie. We’ve all seen this story a thousand times before, and we know the moves by heart.

 

But I would hesitate to call it a “machine” of any kind, because these skilled craftsmen take this absolutely standard set-up and make it come startlingly alive. I really did not want to like this movie when I saw how formulaic the set-up was (and I cringed in my seat at the “Girlie, tough ain’t enough” line), but the movie snuck up on me, and I found myself rooting for this Grizzled Old Manager and his Old Friend and the Plucky Young Waitress in spite of myself. This is a film done by people who know how to use all these conventions at their disposal to make a movie do that most rare and difficult of things, which is really make you care. The parts are held together with a warmth and sincerity that shines right through the screen. The film gets away with being so baldly conventional because the focus is always on the characters: etching them, thickening them, challenging them, making them grow. The story follows the way it does not because it’s what boxing movies are supposed to do, but because it wants to see what these characters are made of. The kind of small things that give away less successful movies of this kind (like the heartfelt monologues with the sappy music) here seem like the most genuine and natural thing in the world. It’s not a conventionality that comes from laziness or efficiency. It’s a kind of earned conventionality that is there because this is the most direct way into the heart of the story.

 

Part of the secret to this success is keeping the audience’s attention on just the right things at just the right times, and “Million Dollar Baby” excels at that. The scenes come one after the other, make a strong simple point, and move on. Shots never linger a second longer than they’re supposed to, and the camera never calls attention to itself. There is a scene near the end when Freeman is trying to tell Eastwood something, where Freeman is shot entirely in silhouette, with a harsh key light on Eastwood’s face. The focus sharpens on the story Freeman is telling and Eastwood’s reactions when you can’t see Freeman’s face, and the scene gains an immense power from using just that simple trick to make you watch and listen to the characters more closely. The script, the sound and the visuals are full of tiny sharp examples like this, and I would be hard pressed to think of a movie made in the last two or three years to get more mileage and more depth out of such a simple approach as this movie takes.

 

The major players, Eastwood, Freeman and Swank, all smilarly shine with a strong understanding of giving each scene exactly what it needs and nothing more. Eastwood stumbles a little through the first twenty minutes, making his reactions a little too obvious at times, but once he finds his ground each emotional note is hit with precision and grace. Swank has the most physically demanding role I’ve seen in a long time. We see her transform herself, step-by-step, from a clumsy kid who can’t move her feet to a fluid professional who moves like a cat. The whole movie hinges on how believable she can make the transformation, and she never makes a misstep. Freeman’s strength, as always, is in his voice. He recites his lines with a sonorous quality that’s a joy to just sit back and listen to, and he can make everything that comes out of his mouth sound like poetry. But this character doesn’t get the standard Morgan Freeman Voice: Freeman instead makes his voice weak and sandpapery, giving him more personality and keeping the focus on the character.

 

Being a film mainly about the way the three major players relate to each other, the strength of the story lives or dies on the actors can interact and how genuine they can make it seem. They succeed spectacularly in feeding off each other and reacting, and probably the film’s biggest strength is watching these actors play off each other. The conversations between Eastwood and Freeman have the feel of ages-old companions who cannot remember a time when they didn’t know each other and know exactly what the other will say before he says it. Eastwood and Swank have a remarkable chemistry, and the script gives them a repartee together that allows them to be genuine without taking themselves seriously. They irritate each other in the small ways that only people who really love each other can. In the verbal jabs and the hidden smirks you get the sense that these people are together not just for a common goal, but because they simply enjoy each other’s company, a kind of relationship that’s very rarely pulled off in the movies.

 

All this would merely add up to a really good boxing movie if it weren’t for the surprise that comes in the third act, when suddenly the rug gets pulled out from under you and everything is changed. It isn’t done for the sake of surprising the audience, and it follows through on the consequences right to the end. A lesser film would stumble badly on taking such a chance with the story, but this movie gets raised to another level because the change feels unforced and real, and because it stays true to its characters. Suddenly, the questions the movie has been raising have to be dealt with on much more real terms than just in boxing. Issues that were hinted at while the characters were busy worrying about boxing suddenly become much larger and impossible to avoid, and the characters find themselves tested in ways they (and the audience) never dreamed of. Even when it does stumble a little bit towards the very end, its ambitions are so grand and its fidelity to the characters so strong that I admire what it reaches for much more than what it can grasp.

 

The film does stumble in other places, where it goes right for the gut without earning its way in first. The Women’s Welterweight Champion is the victim of too much movie shorthand, a set of characteristics that make it easy to root against her without any human dimension. She shows up, performs her function, and leaves without a trace. Similarly lacking human dimension is the way the subplot between Swank and her mother develops. Too much is crammed into just a couple of confrontation scenes when a gradual build would have been better, and the mother comes to stand not for a real character, but a signal to the audience for an “oh shit, something bad’s about to happen” moment. The rest of the movie gets away with being so conventional because it makes those conventional elements seem earned and genuine, but the mother doesn’t get enough genuine ground to stand on, resulting in something that feels unnecessary and manipulative.

 

So while I would hesitate to call this one of the great movies of 2004, the film moves along so nicely and so assuredly that its mistakes are promptly forgotten as soon as they pass, and you’re embedded in the story again. The film is done with such a straightforward earnestness that all the pieces of the story, familiar and well-worn as they are, combine into something else that is singular and magic. These are people who can make a damn good movie, and know exactly how to do it.

 

------------------

 

for the most part, i still stand by that. i'll elaborate on where i think it missteps when i have time, since we're getting into the nitty gritty on this thread.

[Nighthawk 0]

Like nl5xsk1, I didn't really want to see this, but the twist has kindled some interest.

[Guest Vitamin X]

I think I agree almost 100% with gtd's review. He really should get work doing reviews professionally. The part that most brought down the movie for me was as gtd described in the first paragraph with Grizzled Old Manager and Plucky Young Waitress, in that it feels very cliche'd and simple, yet it does the best it can for what was written.

 

But am I the only person here who came away and was immediately able to detach myself and my reality from it? M$B didn't have a LASTING impact on me, no matter how much I recognized that it was done very very well. Maybe it's just me, though. This wasn't a movie that had any profound influence on me, yet it did what it set out to do and did it exceptionally well... Apparently well enough to win out over some other strong contenders in the Best Picture field.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

M$B is a perfect example of why its execution, not idea or premise, that makes a movie (or anything) great. Even a movie that you loved, that you think you loved it because of its premise or idiea, what you really loved was the execution of said idea. And cliche complaints are really complaints about cliche execution of said idea.

[NoCalMike 0]

But am I the only person here who came away and was immediately able to detach myself and my reality from it? M$B didn't have a LASTING impact on me, no matter how much I recognized that it was done very very well. Maybe it's just me, though. This wasn't a movie that had any profound influence on me, yet it did what it set out to do and did it exceptionally well... Apparently well enough to win out over some other strong contenders in the Best Picture field.

I agree, which is why I personally felt Hotel Rwanda was a much more POWERFUL film in that it stayed with you.

[cabbageboy 0]

I've never been one to hark on the so called realism in film but there are basic things that need to be addressed when you write something. That's what really pissed me off about Million Dollar Baby and I for one see where Bayless was coming from (Skip Bayless is on ESPN2's Cold Pizza with Woody Paige, also 1st and 10..it's the same show really). For instance:

 

The champion and her blatant cheap shot tactics were ludicrous to me. What truly pissed me off is that after the fight took place there was NEVER any mention of her being stripped of the title, being banned for life, doing jail time, etc. It was just stuff like "Oh well Maggie, you jobbed so just lie in your bed paralyzed and live with it." I say fuck that for a few reasons. 1. She didn't lose the fight. I assumed that if anything she won the fight by DQ, and I'd think the ref is within his rights to award her the title. 2. Though never stated as such we are left to figure that the Bitch basically retained her title and had no consequences for crippling an opponent with a blatant cheap shot.

 

Is there anyone else who had as big of a problem with this as me? Add to it that all this led to was a 30 min. subplot about euthanasia and I was quite pissed and ready to exit the theater. Perhaps there will be a deleted scene on the DVD showing what became of The Bitch in the aftermath of the fight, but then we're still stuck with 30 mins of borderline unwatchable crap with Hilary paralyzed in a nursing home.

 

[NoCalMike 0]

The champion and her blatant cheap shot tactics were ludicrous to me. What truly pissed me off is that after the fight took place there was NEVER any mention of her being stripped of the title, being banned for life, doing jail time, etc. It was just stuff like "Oh well Maggie, you jobbed so just lie in your bed paralyzed and live with it." I say fuck that for a few reasons. 1. She didn't lose the fight. I assumed that if anything she won the fight by DQ, and I'd think the ref is within his rights to award her the title. 2. Though never stated as such we are left to figure that the Bitch basically retained her title and had no consequences for crippling an opponent with a blatant cheap shot.

 

Yeah that pretty much sums up my feeling on that fight.

 

I mean, I could understand if the ONLY cheapshot that was thrown for the entire fight was that one after the bell, but I mean, first she threw Maggie down, then she elbowed her a couple times, if that isn't enough, she walks over to Maggie while she is down, and hits her while on the mat, which any day of the week would be an automatic DQ right there, and THEN we get the shot that caused paralysis. I mean I didn't think it was realistic that the fight even should have made it that far, ESPECIALLY considering this was a fighter KNOWN FOR BEING DIRTY, supposedly. IMO, it would have been more effective had they re-shot the fight with no cheapshots besides the one after the bell that caused Maggie to fall on the stool.

 

EDIT: Oh and to add to it.....

 

when Maggie's mom came to visit in the hospital, and asked her mom if she saw the fight, her mom said "you know how I feel about that stuff" and said that the news said Maggie had lost the fight. Now, I don't see how in the world it is possible that she lost the fight, considering she was barely ever hit unless it was an elbow, after the ball, or after she was thrown to the mat. I mean wouldn't the news have commented about the aftermath of the fight and such, as far as that other boxer being banned for life etc......?

[Guest TheLastBoyscout]

I finally saw it tonight and I thought it was great. My only criticism, is that I felt that the scenes with Swank's redneck family didn't even need to be there. I mean for starters we didn't get much if any backstory on why the mom was the bitch that she was, so it kind of just felt like her family was just put on screen to make us feel even more sorry for her. I would have been perfectly happy if all we ever knew about her family is what we heard in from Morgan Freeman's narration about Maggie knowing she came from trash and all........

The scenes with Swank's family establish why Swank's character latches onto Frankie and we he's so important to her. He really is all she has.

[Guest TheLastBoyscout]

Oh yeah I forgot to add this the other night(I was tired)

 

I felt that that foreign "dirty" fighter that ended up paralysing Maggie, was a little on the unrealistic side. I mean I have never seen any fighter ever in life that is THAT DIRTY, and I watch a lot of boxing. Also, she would have been DQ'd immediately after that cheap hit when Maggie was down, the one that busted her eye open. I didn't mind that actual cheap shot that sent her down and to hit the stool, however the fight would have been over long before that even took place.

 

I really enjoyed this movie, but I would have given Best Picture to Hotel Rwanda.

Rwanda isn't nearly the film this one is.

 

Not even close.

[Stephen Joseph 0]

Her mother was likely misquoting the news. Remember how her mother was portrayed. Since Maggie didn't walk out the champion, she lost. Likely the news portrayed the aftermath and mentioned the champ had been DQ'ed and whatnot.

[iggymcfly 0]

Her mother was likely misquoting the news. Remember how her mother was portrayed. Since Maggie didn't walk out the champion, she lost. Likely the news portrayed the aftermath and mentioned the champ had been DQ'ed and whatnot.

It's not wrestling. You don't keep the championship on a DQ

[NoCalMike 0]

it's not so much that the mother misquoted what may have happened, moreso that there simply was nothing said by Frankie on the matter or even Morgan Freeman's character. I am just still have a big problem with the totally unrealistic nature of that last fight sequence, especially since that was considered the "big time"

[NoCalMike 0]

Oh yeah I forgot to add this the other night(I was tired)

 

I felt that that foreign "dirty" fighter that ended up paralysing Maggie, was a little on the unrealistic side. I mean I have never seen any fighter ever in life that is THAT DIRTY, and I watch a lot of boxing.  Also, she would have been DQ'd immediately after that cheap hit when Maggie was down, the one that busted her eye open.  I didn't mind that actual cheap shot that sent her down and to hit the stool, however the fight would have been over long before that even took place.

 

I really enjoyed this movie, but I would have given Best Picture to Hotel Rwanda.

Rwanda isn't nearly the film this one is.

 

Not even close.

Eh, sorry I disagree. This film was very good, great even, but I don't think it was the Best film, heck I probably liked Sideways and Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind better. It was top 5, but not the best, not at all.

[Guest BrokenWings]

We should change the title to spoilers included, and take off all the damn tags, but I digress...

 

So if she'd won the title, they'd bring it for her to see as though to say, "Here's the belt you're never going to be able to defend." It would only make her feel worse. And I doubt they'd award Maggie the title, seeing as how she couldn't defend it. Not to say they wouldn't strip the Blue Bear, but what's the point in awarding her a title she couldn't defend?

 

The champion and her blatant cheap shot tactics were ludicrous to me. What truly pissed me off is that after the fight took place there was NEVER any mention of her being stripped of the title, being banned for life, doing jail time, etc. It was just stuff like "Oh well Maggie, you jobbed so just lie in your bed paralyzed and live with it." I say fuck that for a few reasons. 1. She didn't lose the fight. I assumed that if anything she won the fight by DQ, and I'd think the ref is within his rights to award her the title. 2. Though never stated as such we are left to figure that the Bitch basically retained her title and had no consequences for crippling an opponent with a blatant cheap shot.

 

Is there anyone else who had as big of a problem with this as me? Add to it that all this led to was a 30 min. subplot about euthanasia and I was quite pissed and ready to exit the theater. Perhaps there will be a deleted scene on the DVD showing what became of The Bitch in the aftermath of the fight, but then we're still stuck with 30 mins of borderline unwatchable crap with Hilary paralyzed in a nursing home.

 

You missed the point of the movie. After that point, anything regarding the Blue Bear was specifically skipped over, as the movie was no longer about boxing, or the title. Female-Rocky, this was not. I'm sorry that's what you expected.

 

It's not wrestling. You don't keep the championship on a DQ

 

Her mother had already said that she doesn't follow the sport. She could have easily misinterpreted the news.

[Guest TheLastBoyscout]

Oh yeah I forgot to add this the other night(I was tired)

 

I felt that that foreign "dirty" fighter that ended up paralysing Maggie, was a little on the unrealistic side. I mean I have never seen any fighter ever in life that is THAT DIRTY, and I watch a lot of boxing.  Also, she would have been DQ'd immediately after that cheap hit when Maggie was down, the one that busted her eye open.  I didn't mind that actual cheap shot that sent her down and to hit the stool, however the fight would have been over long before that even took place.

 

I really enjoyed this movie, but I would have given Best Picture to Hotel Rwanda.

Rwanda isn't nearly the film this one is.

 

Not even close.

Eh, sorry I disagree. This film was very good, great even, but I don't think it was the Best film, heck I probably liked Sideways and Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind better. It was top 5, but not the best, not at all.

Million Dollar Baby was just the best directed, best acted, film of the year. It moved at the perfect pace, putting us through the usual moves (but never as well executed), before a third act that is as spiritual as the best work of an Ingmar Bergman.

 

It was just the best film up for contention this year, bar none.