2GOLD 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2005 Everyone, please welcome the 12-18 Oakland Golden Grizzlies. Winners of the Mid-Continent Conference championship. 61-60 on a three pointer with 1.3 seconds remaining. Just....wow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Damaramu 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2005 Wow I just found out that it looks very good that OU could win the Big XII tourney AND get that #2 seed. They've won 3 out of the last 4 Big XII tourneys. They are typically awesome at that tournament. Hmmmm..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SilverPhoenix 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2005 Holy Shit! Oral Robers Loses the Mid Continent Tournament Final. Oakland a team at 12 - 18 is going to the Play in Game, but is making the Dance. Oral Robers even with a 25 - 7 record, may be completely shut out. This is the vice of Championship Week. The Tournament for Mid/Low Majors is their March Madness, but it can also shut out the clear Regular Season conference champion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Damaramu 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2005 Isn't Oral Roberts in Oklahoma? Yeah I didn't know that until recently. Weird....I don't know where a lot of shit in this state is and I've been here 20 years. The conference tournaments are stupid. What if Mizzou gets lucky and wins the Big XII tourney? They don't deserve to be in the tournament! It's crappy that a loser can make it in just by getting hot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChris 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2005 Holy shit... Oakland is headed for Dayton and the play-in game a week from tonight, as they shocked top-seeded Oral Roberts 61-60 to win the Mid-Continent conference tournament. The Golden Grizzlies, at 12-18 (7-9 MCC, T-5th), are (at least in my memory) the worst team ever to make the tournament. The team is in only its eighth season in Division I. For the record, they have an RPI of 216...right behind Baylor. Oral Roberts, despite a 25-7 record and the regular-season conference title, looks to be headed for the NIT. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChris 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2005 Isn't Oral Roberts in Oklahoma? Yeah I didn't know that until recently. Weird....I don't know where a lot of shit in this state is and I've been here 20 years. The conference tournaments are stupid. What if Mizzou gets lucky and wins the Big XII tourney? They don't deserve to be in the tournament! It's crappy that a loser can make it in just by getting hot. They're clearly not a loser if they can make their way through an entire tournament without a loss. Here's a suggestion to all those bubble teams...WIN YOUR DAMN GAMES AND YOU'LL GET IN. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Damaramu 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2005 Yeah but some of the bigger teams don't give it there all. I mean what if OU was a solid 3 seed with no room for improvement? And there's really no difference between a 3 and 4. So where's the incentive to really give it there all? Even Eddie Sutton commented that he hates the conference tourneys. Maybe his teams don't give 100% with that attitude? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChris 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2005 T-H-E-I-R. There's a big difference between a 3 and a 4, in that a 4 has to play a 1 in the round of 16. As for not trying in the conference tournament, that's a great way to foster a competitive attitude. I'd really want to go into the NCAAs coming off a crappy effort in my last game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SilverPhoenix 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2005 And since someone will ask that Question, here is Oral Roberts Full Resume. Wins: 25 (24 in the NCAA Selection Commitee's Eyes, cause wins over DII schools don't count.) Losses: 7 New RPI: 69 Old RPI: 93 Strength of Schedule 267 out of 330 Conference: Mid Continent Conference (MCC) Conference RPI: 25 Marquee Wins (Any Victory Over any Team in the Top 25 RPI): None Key Wins (Any Victory Over any Team in the Top 100 RPI): Georgetown, Soutwest Missouri State Bad Losses (Any Defeat Aganist any Team with an RPI past 150, and any Series where you were swept aganist Conference Oppoents with an RPI Past 100): UMKC (X2), Western Illinois The Key things to look for. Oral Roberts has 24 DI wins, a great number for any team in College Hoops, but they carry many things aganist them. - Their RPI is definetely representative of a Top Mid/Low Major Team at 69, and even when you put it under the old formula, their RPI is 93, which is still very good for them. - However, even with the good RPI ratings, they still aren't good enough. Most at Large Teams are taken from the top 50 RPI rankings, even if the RPI is only a tool, it is a tool that usually keeps teams like Oral Roberts out. The death knell for Oral Roberts is in two places. - Oral Roberts Strength of Schedule is 267 out of 330. Clearly in the bottom 20% Division I for Schedule Strength, which is NOT going to fly (Utah State, anyone?) very well with any selection committee. - The Mid Continent Conference is 25 out of 32. Only 6 other Conferneces and the Independents are worse as far as rankings go. Anything 20 and under is usually reserved for the Low Majors, and barring a team going with 1 or 2 losses, they are not even considered for at larges, no matter how much ESPN will tout them as a bubble team. Overall, Oral Roberts has had a great season, and great record, but they are victims of their schedule and conference, and while they deserve better, they will not get better. It's tragic for those kids who have worked their asses off. Hopefully, they will make a Run and get to Garden for the NIT Final Four. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SilverPhoenix 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2005 Holy shit... Oakland is headed for Dayton and the play-in game a week from tonight, as they shocked top-seeded Oral Roberts 61-60 to win the Mid-Continent conference tournament. The Golden Grizzlies, at 12-18 (7-9 MCC, T-5th), are (at least in my memory) the worst team ever to make the tournament. The team is in only its eighth season in Division I. For the record, they have an RPI of 216...right behind Baylor. Oral Roberts, despite a 25-7 record and the regular-season conference title, looks to be headed for the NIT. Acutally, there were teams worse than Oakland that have made it to the tournament. They're the worst or second worst since the modern tournament (64 Team Field). But, when you add the golden age of the tournament the worst tournament team ever is the 1961 George Washington Team, that made it with 9 Wins. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Damaramu 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2005 T-H-E-I-R. There's a big difference between a 3 and a 4, in that a 4 has to play a 1 in the round of 16. As for not trying in the conference tournament, that's a great way to foster a competitive attitude. I'd really want to go into the NCAAs coming off a crappy effort in my last game. Does the difference between there and their really bother you that much? I mean seriously. You guys are getting downright petty. I'm not saying nobody doesn't try. I'm just saying that maybe they don't give it everything. There's a difference between not trying and not giving all of your heart. Hell I doubt OSU gave it their all last year and they won the damn Big XII tourney. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gert T 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2005 If Oklahoma wins the Big 12 tournament, it helps them for a few reasons. Auto bid Committee loves big conference champion winners It increases their winning % in the last 10 games which the committee also loves. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Damaramu 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2005 If Oklahoma wins the Big 12 tournament, it helps them for a few reasons. Auto bid Committee loves big conference champion winners It increases their winning % in the last 10 games which the committee also loves. Yeah but I'm saying as an honor and prestige thing winning the Big XII regular season title is more important to OU than winning the tournament. No what I'm saying about these automatic bids is this. A team that's 9-18 or whatever can get hot and make a run in the conference tourney and maybe catch a team sleeping and go to the NCAA tourney. I don't think that's good b/c those people job hardcore. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2GOLD 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2005 Did you see the teams on Oakland's regular season schedule??? at Xavier (16-10) at Illinois (29-1) Marquette (19-10) at Texas A&M (19-8) at Mizz (15-15) at Kansas State (16-11) at Akron (19-9) vs Bowling Green (18-10), Oakland won this one and last of the big ones at Michigan State (22-5) Now, you tell me how many teams would have a winning record if they had THAT to deal with? Oakland wasn't the bottom of the MCC, they were right in the middle of the conference. Lot of people tend to forget these small conference teams are the ones that get loaded onto the schedule of the big boys. And these major/power conference teams usually don't even want to put the tops of the small conference teams on their schedule. So teams like Oakland end up with schedules looking like THAT. And there have been a few 15 seeds who knock out the 2 seeds, teams that "didn't belong" in the tournament. They won three straight games, knocked off the top seed and earned their right to be there. If a "bubble team" thinks they have a right to be in, they better earn it like these teams do. It's not fair the small conference teams should be holding their breath and hoping when some of them play more dangerous schedules than some of the big dog conferences. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2005 Don't cry for the mid-majors. They've been getting so much love lately that it's ridiculous. Compare the resumes of Creighton, Indiana, and NC State, and then tell me which one should be a "virtual lock" for the tournament. Indiana's got a better conference record in the Big Ten than Creighton does in the MVC and has played seven games that are tougher than any on Creighton's schedule. NC State got beaten up a little bit by the Dukes and Carolina's of the world, but swept Maryland and Ga. Tech, and would be 17-7 if you take away their losses to Top 5 teams. (Creighton, by comparison played no Top 25 teams, let alone Top 5, yet still managed to lose 10) The RPI brainwashes people by punishing teams far too much for taking a cupcake every now and then before undertaking a brutal schedule, and then giving them no breaks when they face the absolute elite of the country. It seems all you have to do to get a good RPI is constantly play teams ranked 50-200, and not take too many losses. Creighton has as good of a chance at playing .500 ball in the ACC as pigs do of flying out of my ass, yet their RPI means they'll be treated like they did by the selection committee. Edit: I guess Creighton actually won their conference to earn the berth, but Joe Lunardi has had them with a 9 or 10 seed for a while now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fökai 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2005 Hawaii (16-12) beats San Jose State (6-23) by 24. Sure, it's a cupcake win, but we're only three games (although they're all going to be tough) away from a NCAA berth. Go Bows. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChris 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2005 Wisconsin-Milwaukee won the Horizon League championship, defeating Detroit 59-58. A Detroit win would have put a second team with a losing record in the NCAA tournament. The Panthers were another team that had built an at-lagre case if they had lost in the conference tournament, going 24-5, winning the Horizon League with a 14-2 record, and winning 17 of their last 18 games. With an RPI of 74 and a SOS in the bottom quarter of the country, however, they likely would have fallen short. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChris 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2005 The Louisiana-Lafayette Ragin' Cajuns are making their second straight trip to the NCAA tournament, defeating Denver 88-69 to win the Sun Belt championship. The Cajuns enter the tournament with a record of 20-10, finishing second to Denver in the Sun Belt West division during the regular season with an 11-4 conference mark. They are ranked 76th in the RPI, with a strength of schedule of 117. Their biggest win came back on January 5 against Southern Illinois. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crimson Platypus 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2005 The RPI brainwashes people by punishing teams far too much for taking a cupcake every now and then before undertaking a brutal schedule, and then giving them no breaks when they face the absolute elite of the country. It seems all you have to do to get a good RPI is constantly play teams ranked 50-200, and not take too many losses. Creighton has as good of a chance at playing .500 ball in the ACC as pigs do of flying out of my ass, yet their RPI means they'll be treated like they did by the selection committee. According to Jay Bilas the RPI is not factored in when the Selection Committee picks the teams for the tournament. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2005 From the article you linked: The Committee considers the following factors: a team's record against Division I competition, a team's RPI (overall, conference, and non-conference), conference records, road records, record in the last 10 games, records against teams sorted by the RPI, head-to-head results, common opponents results, good wins, bad losses, good losses, bad wins, the quality of competition throughout the year, and injuries, scheduling issues and other circumstances that could have affected the results on the floor. Obviously, the RPI's not the final determining factor, but conferences like the MVC build each other up with all these mediocre wins, and staying away from the real cupcakes. They'll look at a team like Creighton, and give them way too much credit for their games against N. Iowa, Wichita State, S. Illinois, etc. My main point wasn't that the selection committee does a bad job, or that they depend overly on the RPI; just that certain mid-major conferences have gotten really overrated this year, and it's due in large part to that influence. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crimson Platypus 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2005 And from further down: The RPI is used primarily for organizational purposes. The RPI numbers help group teams and organize their schedules for evaluations, but are not particularly relevant in determining how good a team is, or whether that team is worthy of inclusion into the field. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cabbageboy 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2005 It depends I think. In regards to the top 25 teams you can take a look at who is ranked what and usually the seed is similar. Most everyone in the top 10 will get a 1-3 type seed. Top 20 would be in the top 5 seed range. The RPI is mainly used I think to figure out what bubble team should be in. Nevermind NC St., they lost some really embarrassing games to St. John's and West Virginia (that one at home). Not that losing to WVU is THAT bad but not at home by 19. An intriguing team is Va Tech...what do you do with this team? RPI is hideous at about 120, but they also finished 8-8 in the ACC (4th place!) and have wins over Duke, Maryland, and Ga Tech. To be honest aside from the top 3 main teams the ACC is water. Add maybe Ga Tech to the tourney since they finished 8-8 as well (and unlike Va Tech actually seem credible) but after that there really isn't anyone you can say "This team definitely should be in." If you finish below .500 in conf. you do NOT belong in the tourney. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crimson Platypus 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2005 4th in the ACC and wins over Duke, Maryland and GT? Nice, I would think that they should be in based on that. Might need a win or two in the tourney to solidify their standing though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChris 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2005 4th in the ACC and wins over Duke, Maryland and GT? Nice, I would think that they should be in based on that. Might need a win or two in the tourney to solidify their standing though. Wins over Maryland and Georgia Tech don't mean near as much now as we thought they might have at the start of the season. And for every win like that, there's a loss to a VMI, to a Western Michigan, and to a St. John's. I think the ACC is only sending four teams, barring an unlikely conference tournament run by one of the also-rans. There's just such a clear division between the top 3 teams and everyone else. The ACC as a whole is not that great a conference. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Damaramu 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2005 Don't tell that to ESPN. We all know the Big East is better and deeper but they come up with arguments like "The Big East is the deepest conference BUT the best is the ACC!" I'd think the deepest would also be the best. They usually just say the ACC is the best on ESPN without much explaining. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C Dubya 04 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2005 I don't really think it's fair to call any conference the best, as it is really arbitrary to say that, but I'd say that having as strong of a top that the ACC has qualifies them for the discussion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cabbageboy 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2005 Dama, as I said earlier I think the Big 12 very well could be the best conf. Thing is it is so tough that even the top tier teams go on losing streaks. Let's face it, even in the ACC there's a Clemson or Virginia to get well against (unless you're Maryland heh). By the way this TCU/Marquette game on right now is just a hideous brawlfest. I bet TCU is shooting about 10% in the 2nd half. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crimson Platypus 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2005 haha 10%? That's not good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Damaramu 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2005 Dama, as I said earlier I think the Big 12 very well could be the best conf. Thing is it is so tough that even the top tier teams go on losing streaks. Let's face it, even in the ACC there's a Clemson or Virginia to get well against (unless you're Maryland heh). By the way this TCU/Marquette game on right now is just a hideous brawlfest. I bet TCU is shooting about 10% in the 2nd half. Yeah but there's a Baylor in the Big XII. But I do agree there's never an easy night on the road in the Big XII. Hell it's not easy at home either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChris 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2005 Two more teams with sub-.500 records could get in tonight... Northeast: (2) Fairleigh Dickinson vs. (6) Wagner, 7:00 ET Big Sky: (3) Montana vs. (5) Weber State, 9:00 ET Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
