Top 50 WWWF/WWF/WWE headliners

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

But in figuring who deserves it, from a McMahon standpoint, would be who headlined successfully. So here's the formula. We'll start with when Vince Sr. took over Madison Square Garden, which was November 1956. Since MSG was the main arena and focal point of the company, we'll award points for headlining MSG. One point for a main event, three points for a sellout. MSG shows will be considered through the spring of 1995, when the company went to monthly PPV shows.

 

Well also consider PPVs from Wrestlemania I to the present since PPVs are so much bigger than MSG, we'll go two points for a main event and four for either a 1.0 buy rate, or after PPV hit 40 million homes, for hitting 400,000 buys. Wrestlemania will be five for a main event, except for 1997, because it flopped. All shows that hit 600,000 buys will also be considered equivalent to Mania. A few record breaking events (WM 3 & 17. Austin vs. Undertaker on Raw) would be worth six points. The three Shea Stadium shows will be considered as the equivalent of WrestleMania’s, because that's what they were for their time. There are flaws with every model, but it rewards people who were successful main eventers and throws a lot of emotional judgment (and ability in the ring) out of it. The main flaws are, a lot more current guys are figured in because more guys are in main event positions, plus the PPV shows are weighed more highly than MSG house shows, giving more opportunity for points. But it would be ridiculous to consider an MSG house show equivalent to a national PPV, and the current wrestlers are drawing 40 times the revenue, so in that sense they are more prominent as stars. Also, the current generation has an edge because in the old days, wrestlers went from territory to territory. You got your three main events, worked a few more months, then went somewhere else. From 1963-83, virtually every MSG main event consisted of the champion against a challenger of the month. So the champs look ultra strong here because they always headlined, but they were usually faces. Other faces who were a big deal, notably Andre the Giant, Dusty Rhodes, Chief Jay Strongbow, Peter Maivia (until his turn) and Mil Mascaras in the 70’s, almost never worked main events, Andre never had an MSG main event until the company went national, as even his biggest grudge matches against the likes of John Studd, Blackjack Mulligan, Hulk Hogan (first go around) and Killer Khan were behind Backlund's title defenses. Rhodes and Mascaras only did when Billy Graham was champion. Strongbow only did a few times in tag teams with Sammartino. Looking at that, we can see who are people who should be unquestioned Hall of Famers, borderline picks, and weak picks, and counting backwards, here are the top 50:

 

Some notes on people who didn’t make the top 50: Adrian Adonis was an awesome worker, whose weight issues killed his career. Argentina Apollo was brought in as a replacement for Rocca, but like Lex Luger being given Hulk Hogan's spot, or Tommy Rich & Eddie Gilbert were made the new Fabs in Memphis, the barefoot high flier gimmick had been done and people seeing a copy only made them want the original. Spyros Arion was Sammartino's best rival before Graham and Zbyszko. The Fabulous Kangaroos (Al Costello & Roy Hefferman) would have been the best drawing tag team in company history outside of The Grahams and Rocca & Perez. Owen Hart will get in at some point, but it's the situation with his wife and family that has probably held it up until this point. Curt Hennig is almost a lock to get in, but rarely headlined and didn't draw well in the promotion, but is remembered as a bigger deal than he was because he was an awesome worker at his peak. Honky Tonk Man is remembered as a bigger draw than he was, and came nowhere near top 50, but he's an unforgettable character and the "greatest IC champion of all-time" is probably no more accurate than JBL's "greatest champion of all-time," but it was said so often that some people actually remember it as being so. Also, he was a long-term IC champ at a time when the company had tremendous national visibility. I see him getting inducted at some point. Don Leo Jonathan was the most agile giant of his time, and was the most physically impressive opponent for Sammartino and Morales, but only had one WWWF run his entire career. Killer Kowalski and Ernie Ladd, who are both in, are remembered as bigger WWWF draws than they really were. Kowalski wrestled all over the world, but was probably biggest in Montreal, where he was one of that area's all-time great heels. Ladd was also a traveller, but only had three serious company runs, one when he was green, one as a legitimate star, and one when he was well past his prime that ended quickly. Peter Maivia headlined against Backlund and Graham, and may make it in because of his grandson. In many ways, "High Chief Peter Maivia was a late 70s version of Chief Jay Strongbow as the babyface who never headlined, but also almost never lost Mil Mascaras never worked full-time for the company, as during the 70s he was an international touring attraction, but was always a big deal as an attraction in MSG off his exposure on Los Angeles television. He and Dusty Rhodes were considered at pretty much the same level. Rhodes was invited this year, but didn't accept, but probably will be in at some point. Mascaras, I'm not so sure, because when Vince Jr. took over, he never booked Mascaras as much of anything, and there was always company resentment of Mascaras when he refused to job, and didn’t even want to sell much, for Superstar Graham in MSG during what was supposed to be their feud blow-off (they had to do a lame DQ finish instead). Toru Tanaka is borderline, but history hasn't remembered him well.

 

Others with more than five points to their credit are Johnny Barend, who was another tag team partner of Rogers'; Brutus Beefcake (only a headliner due to being Hogan's friend); Bam Bam Bigelow (headlined one Wrestlemania against Lawrence Taylor); Bulldog Brower. Edouard Carpentier (a major international name but only worked MSG briefly in the late 50s, but was a headliner); Bobby Duncum Sr.; Cowboy Bob Ellis; Jackie Fargo; Pampero Firpo; Bill Goldberg; Eddie Guerrero; JBL; Lex Luger; Shane McMahon; King Curtis Iaukea, Scott Hall as Razor Ramon; Hans Schmidt; The Sheik; Don Stevens; Vader, Rob Van Dam; Crusher Verdu; Bill Watts and Mighty Zuma; along with people in the WWE Hall of Fame like Brazil (who McMahon Sr. used extensively as a headliner in building Washington, DC, which was the home base of his Capital Sports company for years. but only main evented MSG a few  times), Patterson. Putski, Race. Rhodes, Santana, Strongbow, Studd and Volkoff.

 

50. King Kong Bundy, Bob Orton Sr, Larry Zbyszko and Waldo Von Erich. - None of the four are in. Von Erich was a major Sammartino rival in the 60s and 70s, but I'd say he's borderline, and probably will never get in as he doesn’t have the allies and few remember him. Bundy headlined against Hogan and Andre in the 80s, and that was a period far better remembered, and he was on top at Wrestlemania II. Orton Sr. was Buddy Rogers' tag partner. While his son is better remembered because he headlined during a period of great visibility, the father had a better track record on top. Zbyszko makes it largely for the Sammartino feud, which drew a gate record that blew away anything ever in North America up to mat point in time, and the feud also did record business in nearly every other arena in the territory. But aside from that few month period in 1980, was never a main eventer. He left shortly after the Sammartino match at Shea Stadium over money from the show (he got about a $23,000 payoff), and never came back.

 

47. Eddie Graham, Big Show and Stan Stasiak. Graham was mainly tag partner with Dr. Jerry, and were the top rivals of Rocca & Perez. Show was groomed to be the next Andre, but didn’t cut it, but earned more than all but a few on this list. Stasiak was Morales' top rival as the heart punch master. At this level, Graham and Stasiak in my mind are marginal.

 

45. Iron Sheik and Jimmy Snuka - Both are thought of as having headlined more than they did. Sheik really worked more in the middle except for a few Backlund and Hogan matches. Snuka headlined some, and drew tremendously when he did, but his longevity was short. He's remembered better because the Muraco and Piper feuds were groundbreaking at their time.

 

44. Ken Patera - Headlined with Sammartino and Backlund and was always considered a stronger challenger because of his strength background than most Not in. but should be.

 

42. Freddie Blassie and Paul Omdorff - Omdorff is thought of higher because his feud with Hogan was among the biggest in history, and could be argued was me best house show feud in company history. He headlined WM I, but really didn't main event nearly as much as people remember. Blassie’s career was more in Georgia and California, but his percentage of MSG main events that were sellouts ranks only behind Billy Graham.

 

40. Ric Flair and Greg Valentine - Flair had a good run in 1992-93, and came back when he was 52, but most of his career wasn’t in WWF. Valentine was one of Backlund’s top rivals, and headlined with Hogan as well As irony would have it, the two were also a championship tag team and later major rivals in the Carolinas.

 

35. Ted DiBiase, Randy Orton, Sid Vicious, Davey Boy Smith and Brock Lesnar -DiBiase isn't in, but likely will be. Vicious, who knows? I'm figuring that Smith & Dynamite Kid (who actually never headlined himself) may go in together. Vicious was given chances to be a top 10 guy, but always dropped the ball.

 

33. Don Muraco and Stan Hansen - Hansen is mostly remembered as a Japanese star, but drew great after accidentally breaking Sammartino's neck, and later had a strong run with Backlund. Hansen is not in, because he really only had two short, but very successful, runs with the company.

 

31. Gorilla Monsoon and Sgt Slaughter –

 

29. George Steele and Jerry Graham. Graham on paper is an oversight, but I’d qualify that. He is a guy who was out of his mind, and his own worst enemy. But as a child, he was also Vince McMahon's favorite wrestler. The hold-ups may be that he was such a drunk that the Vince Sr. would every few years give him a chance, and he’d always show up way out of shape and screw up to where he had a huge track record as a draw and no promoter in the country would touch him. Think about that, in an era with 35 companies, when you have the constant screw-ups today who cant do enough to get fired no matter how bad their track record is. Truth is, Graham is remembered far more for the negative and the insanity, but his track record shows he was one of the great heels of his time.

 

27. Ultimate Warrior and Johnny Valentine. Two names with interesting perceptions, neither of whom are in. Warrior is probably remembered as a better draw than he was, largely because of the Hogan match. But he did sell boatloads of merchandise and had a $2 million year, and very few men in wrestling can ever claim that. Valentine is forgotten as a WWWF star, thought of more as an NWA star, and is a major oversight.

 

23. Chris Benoit, Kevin Nash, Vince McMahon and Yokozuna. Yokozuna is an oversight who belongs in. Nash had a one year title run that didn't draw at the houses, but a year on top is a long time.

 

21. Ivan Koloff and Roddy Piper - Koloff will always be remembered as the man who beat Sammartino. He had so much beat for that he probably could have headlined for months, but instead they got him out of the territory immediately for fear hatred of him would be that bad, and didn't bring him back for nearly five years. A major oversight Piper, because he was the top heel during an important time in history, he's probably remembered as having headlined more than he actually did. By 1987, he retired, and never really worked full-time in the ring after that for the company.

 

20. Andre the Giant - Should be top five of all-time, but he was always a high card attraction rather than a main event during his prime.

 

17. Buddy Rogers, Kane and Chris Jericho tied, with the latter two being on top on a number of PPVs. Rogers would have been higher but he only worked MSG for two years, but was always the main event and a great draw. That was a pivotal period in company history as he was the NWA champion that Vince McMahon Sr. didn't want losing. McMahon Sr. quit the NWA and formed the WWWF when the decision was made to go from Rogers as champion to Lou Thesz (a match that was delayed several times as Rogers kept getting injured right before their scheduled matches), who was not nearly the same level of draw in New York. Many at the time felt McMahon Sr.'s plan was to steal the NWA belt by forming the WWWF anyway, making Rogers the champ, and have him never drop his NWA title back. It wouldn't be the last time a McMahon had that plan, because Vince Jr. tried to do the same thing in 1983 by trying to get Harley Race to join him and no-show his scheduled title loss to Ric Flair. If you are listing the most important wrestling figures in company history, due to the time period he was on top and how business was in those days, Rogers would probably be behind only Sammartino, Hogan, Austin and possibly Rocca.

 

16. Mick Foley - Was just hitting his stride as a draw when the punishment he took from overdoing things early caught up with him.

 

15. Kurt Angle - Headlined a lot of successful shows, as five years being a top guy is a lot of longevity in a one-company world.

 

14. Miguel Perez - Argentina Rocca's partner. Still alive and living in Puerto Rico, and the father of the current wrestler of the same name. A major oversight Largely forgotten because his heyday was in the 50s, and he was working prelims by the mid-60s. He never once headlined in a singles match.

 

13. Randy Savage - A few title reigns and the highest ranking heel of the 80s. A major oversight him not being asked to be in yet. I have to think it's coming.

 

12. Shawn Michaels - A back injury had him out for more than four years, as he was only 32 when it appeared his career was over, and his comeback came at 36.

 

11. Bret Hart - Was the company's top star for five years, but main events revolved more, plus it was a down period for business.

 

10. Superstar Billy Graham - Sold out 19 of his 20 MSG main events, a mark that may hold up for a long time. Even though HHH finished higher, you can probably make a case for him as the best heel in company history.

 

9. Pedro Morales - Headlined every show from 1971-73 and sold out 21 out of his 30 main events. He finished the highest of any inactive wrestler not in the Observer Hall of Fame.

 

8. Argentina Rocca -The company's top draw of the 50s, and he'd be higher except many of his main events came for other promoters who ran MSG before Vince Sr.

 

7. Undertaker - He's just been around and headlined so many times that he finishes this high.

 

6. Rock - Would have probably been up to No. 3 on the all-time list already, and ended up at No. 2 or No. 1, except Hollywood called. Another lock.

 

5. HHH - Because he’s current, people don't realize he's been headlining now for almost seven years straight He's almost always in the main events, for the obvious reasons, and unless he suffers a career ending injury, will wind up No. 2 on this list. He's not just a lock to get in, but he'll probably build the damn thing after he retires and have a section just for himself.

 

4. Steve Austin - Of course he's a lock to get in at some point. At his peak, there was nobody ever bigger. Due to injuries, he didn’t hit No.2, as he couldn’t match the longevity of those above him. Still, when it comes to actual money drawn, even with his shorter reign as a headliner, he would probably be No. 1 of all-time.

 

3. Bob Backlund - This again shows he needs to be in, as he headlined from 1978-83, and a few times after that, during a period when business was strong virtually the entire time. He drew 41 sellouts in 67 MSG main events.

 

2. Hulk Hogan - The man who made the company a success on PPV. Only three men in company history where you could say, without any question, that had they not been there, the company's popularity during that period would not have come close to what it was, and the course of wrestling history would have been significantly different.

 

1. Sammartino - Headlined virtually every MSG show from May of 1963 until January of 1971, and again from December of 1973 through May of 1977. While his often-repeated claim of selling out 187 out of 211 main events are terribly exaggerated (45 out of 130 is closer to accurate), his record is impressive because for much of his first run the company had a horrible television time, and for a while, no television. To show his strength, when the company got TV back in the late 60s on a weak Spanish language UHF station out of New Jersey that aired late at night, he immediately started setting box office records, even though his rivals were unknowns like Crusher Verdu (who never did anything anywhere else) and Bepo Mongol (a young Nikolai Volkoff). Even though others have the advantage of being in higher profile shows, his longevity as the top star makes him the company’s most enduring legend.

[LessonInMachismo 0]

Dave needs to hire a copy editor. I've always said it.

[Placebo Effect 0]

I'm an idiot.

[Precious Roy 0]

Why is Randy Orton on there?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Does anyone have anything constructive to say ?

[Guest Pariah]

Its an interesting list, I'm a little surprised not to see Billy Graham a little bit higher, although the fact that he missed out on the PPV era of pro-wrestling definetly worked against him and the mass majority of other old stars. That said, it makes it even more impressive that Sammartino is the number one guy, especially when you consider what came after him. Its a true testament to his drawing power.

[Sass 0]

The deuce?

 

Hogan, Bruno, Backlund and Austin is how I thought it would have gone. I am shocked Dave didn't put Superstar in the Top 5 or one slot above Backlund. Kane's ranking is surprisingly high to me as well. I suppose his longevity with the company has helped.

 

The Rock would probably be #1 if he didn't leave for the movies. When he hit his stride in '99, I thought he was going to be wrestling until he'd drop dead like his grandfather did at 47.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I don't get why just because HHH finished high that automatically makes him a better heel than Superstar. At least that's what was implied by the info. Jake Roberts was a great heel, but he didn't headline shit.

 

I never thought Backlund would be that high, and I thought Hogan would be number one. I was aware of Bruno's work, but I thought that since Hogan and Austin are the biggest names, that that would make them one and two. I totally didn't realize the drawing power of Bruno.

 

When he says get in, is he talking about the HOF?

 

How is Randy Orton so high? Is it because he's on a major PPV like every month? I think that's a little iffy, since time in years is more significant, as I think Flair should be ahead of him at this point, based on his run in 1992 alone.

 

I think this would have been better suited in the WWF folder. YES I STILL CALL IT WORLD WRESTLING FEDERATION!~

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I think this would have been better suited in the WWF folder. YES I STILL CALL IT WORLD WRESTLING FEDERATION!~

I put it here because it covers about 40 years of history, and most of the talk surrounding the people in the list would be more fitting for here, rather than the main WWE folder.

[Jericho2000Mark 0]

Why the fuck is Lesnar grouped with Orton??! SmackDown revolved around Lesnar for a year and a half, he co-headlined WrestleMania, headlined almost every PPV from mid 2002-mid 2003, drew huge with The Rock at Summerslam and even from a longevity standpoint, has been a Main Eventer in WWE longer than Orton has.

 

Big Show has main evented more shows and drawn more money than Orton.

[MikeJordan23 0]

Thanks for posting this. I've been waiting for my Observer issue to come, caus this looks real interesting. Give some feed back later.

[Boner Kawanger 0]

There's something funny about Nash and Benoit being grouped together...

[MikeJordan23 0]

Why the fuck is Lesnar grouped with Orton??! SmackDown revolved around Lesnar for a year and a half, he co-headlined WrestleMania, headlined almost every PPV from mid 2002-mid 2003, drew huge with The Rock at Summerslam and even from a longevity standpoint, has been a Main Eventer in WWE longer than Orton has.

 

Big Show has main evented more shows and drawn more money than Orton.

I'm trying to figure out how British Bulldog as a solo entity is grouped in with Brock and Orton? Only WWF major event he headlined was SummerSlam 1992.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

They put a huge value on MSG shows, which is why Bruno and Backlund are so high. I don't think the weighting is very appropriate, because it is taking a territorial view of things and putting it in near-standing of a national and international view of things. 3 points for main eventing a sold out MSG show (which is, what, 20,000?) and 4 points for headlining a PPV of 1.0 or more/400,000 buys (which is, what, 20x's the MSG figure? Plus live attendance). I recognize the value of the MSG shows, the weighting is a bit off.

[Guest Shadow]

Why the fuck is Lesnar grouped with Orton??! SmackDown revolved around Lesnar for a year and a half, he co-headlined WrestleMania, headlined almost every PPV from mid 2002-mid 2003, drew huge with The Rock at Summerslam and even from a longevity standpoint, has been a Main Eventer in WWE longer than Orton has.

 

Big Show has main evented more shows and drawn more money than Orton.

I'm trying to figure out how British Bulldog as a solo entity is grouped in with Brock and Orton? Only WWF major event he headlined was SummerSlam 1992.

Not true.

 

He main evented 10 WWE pay per views(not counting rumbles obviously)

 

SummerSlam 1992-Bret Hart I.C Title Match

 

IYH 9.24.95-Tagged with Yokozuna against Nash and HBK-Triple Title Match(all three belts, WWF, IC and tag on the line)

 

IYH 10.22.95-Diesel-WWF Title Match

 

IYH 12.17.95-Bret Hart(better match then 'Slam 1992 but less remembered)

 

Beware of Dog IYH 1996-HBK-WWF Title Match(double pin finish)

 

King of the Ring 1996-HBK-WWF Title Match

 

International Incident 1996-w/ Vader and Owen Vs HBK, Sid and Ahmed Johnson

 

Canadian Stampede 1997-Hart Foundation Vs Austin, Goldust, LOD and Shamrock

 

One Night Only-European title match-HBK (never specificed that european ppvs werent counted)

 

Unforgiven 1999-Six Pac Challenge-WWF Title Match-HHH, Rock, Foley, TBS and Kane

 

I'm also going to take a guess and assumed he headlined a few shows @ MSG from 1995-1996 and maybe even a couple in 1997 as well.

[MikeJordan23 0]

Why the fuck is Lesnar grouped with Orton??! SmackDown revolved around Lesnar for a year and a half, he co-headlined WrestleMania, headlined almost every PPV from mid 2002-mid 2003, drew huge with The Rock at Summerslam and even from a longevity standpoint, has been a Main Eventer in WWE longer than Orton has.

 

Big Show has main evented more shows and drawn more money than Orton.

I'm trying to figure out how British Bulldog as a solo entity is grouped in with Brock and Orton? Only WWF major event he headlined was SummerSlam 1992.

Not true.

 

He main evented 10 WWE pay per views(not counting rumbles obviously)

 

SummerSlam 1992-Bret Hart I.C Title Match

 

IYH 9.24.95-Tagged with Yokozuna against Nash and HBK-Triple Title Match(all three belts, WWF, IC and tag on the line)

 

IYH 10.22.95-Diesel-WWF Title Match

 

IYH 12.17.95-Bret Hart(better match then 'Slam 1992 but less remembered)

 

Beware of Dog IYH 1996-HBK-WWF Title Match(double pin finish)

 

King of the Ring 1996-HBK-WWF Title Match

 

International Incident 1996-w/ Vader and Owen Vs HBK, Sid and Ahmed Johnson

 

Canadian Stampede 1997-Hart Foundation Vs Austin, Goldust, LOD and Shamrock

 

One Night Only-European title match-HBK (never specificed that european ppvs werent counted)

 

Unforgiven 1999-Six Pac Challenge-WWF Title Match-HHH, Rock, Foley, TBS and Kane

 

I'm also going to take a guess and assumed he headlined a few shows @ MSG from 1995-1996 and maybe even a couple in 1997 as well.

You know what, I completely blocked Bulldog from 1996-1997 (Not sure why, 1997 might be my favorite year in the WWF). Good stuff. Still surprised to see him up there with Brock, but he did have a long career in the WWF, so who knows.

[Some Guy 0]

Brock was only around for a couple years and if you recall 2003 wasn't WWF's best year. Plus Brock was generally the B-Main event underneath HHH on the big shows. Brock was not a huge draw at all adn he was booked to be "The Next Big Thing" if your recall. He failed as a draw, considering the booking and the wins they gave him (he went over Rock, Hogan, Taker, Angle, Show, Flair, RVD, etc... and went over clean). That's kind of why I didn't understand everybody being upset that he left. I can unerstand why people wouldn't like teh reason and that it left a main event void on SD!, but if the prior guy isn't drawing much then who cares if he leaves?

 

I await the people who claimed that HBK never drew explaining his placement at 12 on the list. Being that high on the list despite only 5 years combined on top, both times with business down prior to his runs and he still finished ahead of Kurt Angle who also has five years on top and started MEing in 2000 when business was still great.

 

HBK drew a bad house in MSG and a bad rating on Raw (during the height of the nWo angle and with no one else on the show worth a shit at the time, 96 was truely a one man show while Bret was gone) and based pretty much soley on that people have decided that he couldn't draw.

 

BTW, from Cawthon's site:

 

WWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - March 17, 1996 (17,000; sell out; 14,824 paid)

WWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - May 19, 1996 (18,800; sell out; 16,564 paid)

Survivor Series 96 - New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - November 17, 1996 (18,647; 16,266 paid)

WWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - January 25, 1997 (matinee) (16,634; 13,480 paid)

 

I'd say Shawn drew some decent houses at MSG.

 

He had 1 so so one and 1 really bad one:

WWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - August 9, 1996 (11,314)

 

WWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - September 29, 1996 (matinee) (6,747; 3,917 paid)

 

Here's a sample of Bret on top:

WWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - November 25, 1995 (7,400)

WWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - January 26, 1996 (15,000; 12,800 paid)

WWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - October 6, 1995 (9,000; 7,900 paid)

WWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - August 25, 1994 (4,300)

WWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - May 20, 1994 (11,000)

 

I never hear that he couldn't draw though. I'm a fan of both guys but it seems to me that most people don't like HBK as a person and pick and choose their arguements to say that he couldn't draw and since Bret is well like by the IWC his failures are ignored.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Bret deserves as much credit for the Survivor Series '96 MSG sellout as Shawn, considering his big return was promoted just as heavily as Shawn's match against Sid.

 

And while moneywise, Shawn was a pretty good draw, ratings wise, he was terrible. While some of that can be blamed on going against the NWO, it was also down to the fact that his babyface persona was a huge turnoff for the heavily male fanbase of the WWF.

[Placebo Effect 0]

I'm an idiot.

Thanks for the edited post.

[Guest LooneyTune]

Interesting list... I'm really not surprised at the placement of the top 5, except for Triple H being higher than the Undertaker. Neither have been mega buck draws, but Undertaker has been on top on-and-off for nearly 15 years.

 

Edit: Can we please not argue over Shawn/Bret again? Neither were big draws, both were very good workers who at times could be the laziest fucks, and they have their own different kind of fans.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

It must've burned Meltz up to have to had put Backlund on that list.

 

I don't understand how Ric Flair and Randy Orton tied. Flair at least drew some money during his early 90s run while Orton hasn't drawn a cent yet.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

See, Backlund is now in the WON HOF so Meltzer has changed his tune and now Bob was a mega star in the 80s and its absurd not to let him in.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

I was not aware that Meltz flip flopped on Backlund.

[Guest Shadow]

They aren't evaluating who drew money but more so who'se done more as headliner.

 

Flair never "head-lined" a WWF ppv(I wont count the rumble)- He jerked the SS91 card, Mid Show spot for WM8, not on the slam1992 card, mid show spot for Series92. Didn't headline a ppv for WWE since coming back.

 

So what flair has going for him is that he likely headlined a few MSG shows in 1991/92 for Vince and I know he headlined a couple MSG shows in tag matches since coming back.

 

Orton however main evented SummerSlam 2003, SummerSlam 2004, Unforgiven 2004, Taboo Tuesday, Survivor Series 2004. That's five to the zero flair had.

 

PPV's were worth more then MSG shows were.

[strummer 0]

See, Backlund is now in the WON HOF so Meltzer has changed his tune and now Bob was a mega star in the 80s and its absurd not to let him in.

Someone called Meltzer on this at the Wrestling Classics Board. He had at least a dozen quotes and reviews from old Observers where Meltzer was just KILLING Backlund. Dave's response was a rather weak "Uhhh, I changed my mind, a lot of people change their mind." I find it hard to believe someone could go from openly mocking a worker to saying "he clearly was a huge star in his day" and was "underrated"

[Guest LooneyTune]

Flair v. Savage was the Co-Main Event of WM VIII, and the Survivor Series 92 match was billed as the Main event for 3 months. The Main Event IS NOT the last match on the card, otherwise people will be saying BBM/LOD v. IRS/Disastors from SSeries 91 was when UT/Hogan had been pushed for months as the main event.

[Jericho2000Mark 0]

Brock was only around for a couple years and if you recall 2003 wasn't WWF's best year. Plus Brock was generally the B-Main event underneath HHH on the big shows. Brock was not a huge draw at all adn he was booked to be "The Next Big Thing" if your recall. He failed as a draw, considering the booking and the wins they gave him (he went over Rock, Hogan, Taker, Angle, Show, Flair, RVD, etc... and went over clean). That's kind of why I didn't understand everybody being upset that he left. I can unerstand why people wouldn't like teh reason and that it left a main event void on SD!, but if the prior guy isn't drawing much then who cares if he leaves?

Brock drew better than Orton. Headlined more major shows than Orton. Was a Main Eventer longer than Orton. There is no logical reason to say he shouldn't be ahead of Orton on that list.

 

Brock was drawing better than what Triple H or JBL are drawing now.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Flair never "head-lined" a WWF ppv(I wont count the rumble)- He jerked the SS91 card, Mid Show spot for WM8, not on the slam1992 card, mid show spot for Series92. Didn't headline a ppv for WWE since coming back.

 

Taboo Tuesday.

[CBright7831 0]

I'm an idiot.

That was random.

[LessonInMachismo 0]

See, Backlund is now in the WON HOF so Meltzer has changed his tune and now Bob was a mega star in the 80s and its absurd not to let him in.

Someone called Meltzer on this at the Wrestling Classics Board. He had at least a dozen quotes and reviews from old Observers where Meltzer was just KILLING Backlund. Dave's response was a rather weak "Uhhh, I changed my mind, a lot of people change their mind." I find it hard to believe someone could go from openly mocking a worker to saying "he clearly was a huge star in his day" and was "underrated"

As least he gave an answer. I e-mailed him, posted on the WO site comment board, and on the amazon.com page for Tributes II the very simple question of why he left out Mike "Crash Holly" Lockwood from his book after complaining about WWE not acknowledging the death on TV (they did eventually).

 

Never got an answer on any of the three venues.

 

So one night I come home from work and there is an opened manilla folder on the couch. My wife had opened it. It was a copy of Tributes II. I thought "Wow, Dave must have appreciated the question." But no...it's from an executive at the publishing house. There was a business card taped to the front with a note on back how he enjoyed my review on amazon and he thought I'd enjoy a free copy.

 

I e-mailed him to thank him and asked him if he knew why Crash wasn't included. He replied to me that it wasn't Dave's so much as an editorial decision. He said if there is a Tributes III, Crash will definitely be in it.