This week in the NBA

[alfdogg 0]

Tue, TNT

Detroit @ Cleveland, 7 PM ET

Miami @ Houston, 9:30 PM ET

 

Wed, ESPN

Detroit @ Philadelphia, 8 PM ET

Dallas @ Golden State, 10:30 PM ET

 

Fri, ESPN

Phoenix @ Miami, 8 PM ET

New York @ Seattle, 10:30 PM ET

[Guest Flyboy]

Man, the Rockets are in a tough funk. A loss to Boston and Minnesota.. and now Miami? Oh shit -- we need some wins if we have hopes of getting a higher seed.

[MrRant 0]

I was going to go to the Seattle vs NY game but I'm getting my dog that week so I can't.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Fuck, I'm spoiled basketball-wise. If the Lakers don't make the playoffs this year, it would be only the second time since 1976 (and thus also my lifetime since the first time they missed since `76 was the 1993-1994 season) it would happen, which is looking all too likely amidst this 5 game losing streak, and being 3 1/2 games behind Denver for the final playoff spot.

[alfdogg 0]

The Pacers play San Antonio Wednesday, then play all Eastern Conference teams the rest of the way.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Fuck, I'm spoiled basketball-wise. If the Lakers don't make the playoffs this year, it would be only the second time since 1976 (and thus also my lifetime since the first time they missed since `76 was the 1993-1994 season) it would happen, which is looking all too likely amidst this 5 game losing streak, and being 3 1/2 games behind Denver for the final playoff spot.

Guess they never should have traded Shaq.

[Sass 0]

Shaq is a force no matter where he goes. A team is nearly guaranteed a .500 + win season with Shaq playing for them. The Lakers just reloaded for the future when they got rid of Shaq, who was making a nuisance of himself to Dr.Buss. Demanding, in Shaq's own "charm", that he should get a contract extension from Dr.Buss when he's checking out a routine scrimage game is not the way to conduct business deals in the NBA. It's a nice way to get your ass dumped as we saw earlier this summer when the Shaq trade went down.

 

If Shaq had trimmed down to 325/330 after the Lakers 2nd loss to the Spurs in the '02/'03 season then he'd still be on the team. That goes without question. Hell, maybe him and Kobe would have gotten along better if Kobe saw Shaq take the initiative to get in fighting shape again like he was in the '99/'00 when he won the MVP award. But he didn't get in shape until Dr.Buss bruised his fragile little ego by trading him to the Heat and *then* Shaq got into shape.

 

Fuck Shaquille O'Neal.

 

That was the biggest slap in the face I could think of. Dr.Buss, Phil Jackson, Mitch Kupchak, *and* Kobe Bryant all asked for Shaq to lose weight for years after he tipped the scales at 350 + lbs. It was hurting his speed and also not doing his lower extremities, like his injured toes and knees, any good by carrying all that unnecessary weight. Most of all, his excess weight issues weren't helping the team either. Dr.Buss was not joking around when he said he wanted a more up-tempo team like the old Showtime Lakers had...or the Spurs for that matter, who have the best blend of speed and on-court ability in the league. He wanted his team to be able to make fast breaks without waiting for Shaq to take a full minute to get up court without gassing himself on a simple court sprint. The big fellas wheels were coming off and something needed to be done.

 

Shaq wanted a contract extension. A *fat* one at that. 3 years with $60 mil + attached to that to go along with the 8 year and $120 + mil deal he initially signed with the team. That's a lot of cash to hand over. But he did *nothing* to show that he deserved such a large deal after getting bumped out of the playoffs and NBA finals for 2 seasons in a row. 2/3's of the team payroll was devoted to Shaq and Kobe's contracts. Dr.Buss is a gambler but Shaq's weight and injury issues was just too much of a crap shoot to go through with so he let the Daddy take an extended vacation down to Miami where he seems to be doing okay. In the process though, the team freed up some much valued cap space. Smart money is on the Lakers getting one, or two, of the top free agents in the next couple of seasons.

 

They'll have enough cap space by the '06/'07 season to offer comfortable deals to guys like Yao Ming and Amare Stoudamire, who will be at the top of their lists for sure when they become FA's. The Pistons and the Heat can enjoy their time at the top for now. But by the end of the decade, the Lakers will win another championship or two. Kobe will (hopefully) grow as a player now that Shaq is gone and also have a better team surrounding him that doesn't need Bryant to hold their hand on the court.

 

Btw, that was a tough loss to Seattle, 100 - 102, where it looked as if the Lakers were going to pull out the miracle win at the end. Oh well, at least there's next season to look forward too.

[bob_barron 0]

Fuck Shaquille O'Neal.

 

Yea he only helped you guys win three titles. What an asshole

[Sass 0]

Did I make my post in kanji or something? READ it Bob, again it you have to. I want to make this crystal clear since the media has done a very, very hack job at covering how this debacle went down.

 

Those wins were excellent. Very, very, very nice. But Shaq's attitude and weight/injury issues were not excellent. They were becoming an issue because they were effecting his on-court ability. Kobe got charged with rape but as long as the outside problems don't mess with the on-court stuff then all is well. But Shaq kept getting injured and sitting out 10 + games for the last 3 seasons with the Lakers because his wheels were breaking down on him. He wasn't losing any weight and came into summer camp overweight each time Phil Jackson and Mitch Kupchak had asked him to lose 15 - 20 pounds. This weight issue had a negative effect on his on-court activities and all was not well.

 

Shaq got into fighting shape after he got traded from the Lakers.

 

He got into shape after getting traded.

 

He got into shape after getting traded.

 

WHY could he have not done that after the Lakers 2nd round loss to the Spurs in '03 when it became clear that Shaq's injuries were mounting, along with a nagging and very injured big toe?

 

Why?

 

Why?

 

Why?

 

WHY DID HE NOT GET INTO SHAPE BEFORE HE WAS TRADED?

 

Had Shaq lost weight when he was *asked* to then we would not be having this discussion. Dr. Buss would have given Shaq his desired contract extension, no questions asked. Instead, Shaq acted like a lazy jerk and kept missing a dozen or more games that could have maybe earned the Lakers the 1st or 2nd seed in the playoffs had those games not been missed by him. Shaq would still be on the Lakers, Karl Malone would most likely still be on the team and the Lakers would probably have another shot at getting into the NBA Finals this season.

 

But the reality is that Shaq is gone and now the Lakers are going to rebuild for the future, Kobe Bryant that is, and hope that he does ascend the Michael Jordan ladder and become the league's next diety.

[bob_barron 0]

I did read your post but saying 'Fuck (player x)' after they helped you win three titles is pretty well inconsiderate I guess.

 

I read your post and you lost me at Fuck Shaquille O'Neal.

[Sass 0]

Respect must be earned. What was inconsiderate was how Shaq mistreated his body for 3 years without showing any signs of improvement, yet turned himself into an adonis after he was traded. That's incosiderate to the Lakers and the fans who saw the decrease in Shaq's game after his weight increased. Had he slimmed down when he was making demands for a contract extension then the words "fuck Shaq" would never have been uttered from my mouth or the other fans who felt burned by his actions, post Lakers.

 

I will hopefully be able to attend the ceremony where the Lakers retire his number, which Dr.Buss has said he will do, no grudges held. He was great when he was in shape and now the Heat fans have gotten their money's worth with a slim and trim Shaq, who looks like he could lead the team to it's first championship win. Good for them.

[smh810 0]

Heres my two cents on this:

 

Is Shaq a pain in the ass to deal with? Yes.

 

Are the Lakers better off without Shaq than with him? Hell No.

 

The bottom line is while O'Neal has his idiosyncracies he cares about winning. Kobe does not he cares about being the man, that is all. It doesnt matter whether Shaq's weight would get out of control sometimes cause he was always there when the Lakers needed him in big games. You cant say that for Kobe. Ask Phil Jackson himself (although if he comes back to LA he's the biggest hypocrite ever), Shaq, pain in the ass but a joy to work with. Kobe, malcontent, and a detriment to the team. Finally just look where LA is now and where the Heat are thats all you need to know.

[alfdogg 0]

EDIT

[mike546 0]

Holy shit, the Knicks beat the Spurs. No Tim Duncan, but screw that, it counts.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Heres my two cents on this:

 

Is Shaq a pain in the ass to deal with? Yes.

 

Are the Lakers better off without Shaq than with him? Hell No.

 

The bottom line is while O'Neal has his idiosyncracies he cares about winning. Kobe does not he cares about being the man, that is all. It doesnt matter whether Shaq's weight would get out of control sometimes cause he was always there when the Lakers needed him in big games. You cant say that for Kobe. Ask Phil Jackson himself (although if he comes back to LA he's the biggest hypocrite ever), Shaq, pain in the ass but a joy to work with. Kobe, malcontent, and a detriment to the team. Finally just look where LA is now and where the Heat are thats all you need to know.

Oh seriously enough with this. When a game is coming down to the wire, there are few players I'd want more to take a game winning shot than Kobe. Don't you think, if Kobe REALLY wanted to fulfill his ego as much as everyone says he does, that he would want to win a championship without Shaq? He already has, and continues to prove he's one of the best in the league, he's got nothing to prove there, what he has left is win the championship or not.

 

I agree with all of Sass's points, especially the fuck Shaq sentiments. He made it clear he didn't want to deal with Kobe especially with Phil Jackson gone, and instead of trying to stick around for the rest of his contract, he demanded out and got what we thought at the time was a very good deal. Noone could have forseen Wade getting NEARLY as good as he did, and while Shaq's numbers don't jump out in Miami, he's freed up the game for the rest of the team while he does a lot of the dirty work inside. But they still benefit from playing in a conference where the Lakers, currently 9th-seeded in the West, would be a #3 seed in the East, and could even possibly win that pisspoor Atlantic Division.

 

I think the Lakers can build a solid nucleus around Bryant, Odom, and Butler if he gets his head in the game. Mihm needs to bulk up and they need a quality PG.

 

Are the Lakers better of without Shaq for the short-term? Absolutely not. Big man can still play, overweight, slow and injury-riddled or not.

 

But while the Heat try to make their run this season, the Lakers are MUCH better off and set for the future without O'Neal. Even Divac in his prime was better conditioned than O'Neal and he was able to keep it going for a while.. how much longer do you think Shaq will last as a force in Miami? By then, the Heat will turn into the Sixers Pt. II: One really good PG and trying to make a team work around him.

[smh810 0]

Oh seriously enough with this. When a game is coming down to the wire, there are few players I'd want more to take a game winning shot than Kobe. Don't you think, if Kobe REALLY wanted to fulfill his ego as much as everyone says he does, that he would want to win a championship without Shaq? He already has, and continues to prove he's one of the best in the league, he's got nothing to prove there, what he has left is win the championship or not.

 

WOW, he made a game-winning shot against the Bobcats thats something to hang your hat on!

 

I agree with all of Sass's points, especially the fuck Shaq sentiments. He made it clear he didn't want to deal with Kobe especially with Phil Jackson gone, and instead of trying to stick around for the rest of his contract, he demanded out and got what we thought at the time was a very good deal. Noone could have forseen Wade getting NEARLY as good as he did, and while Shaq's numbers don't jump out in Miami, he's freed up the game for the rest of the team while he does a lot of the dirty work inside. But they still benefit from playing in a conference where the Lakers, currently 9th-seeded in the West, would be a #3 seed in the East, and could even possibly win that pisspoor Atlantic Division.

 

So instead of blaming Kobe for pushing Jackson out of town you blame Shaq for seeing a sinking ship and wanting out? Had Kobe not been such a selfish asshole maybe just maybe you beat the Pistons last year and keep the dynasty going but of course Kobe had to have things his way.

 

 

 

I think the Lakers can build a solid nucleus around Bryant, Odom, and Butler if he gets his head in the game. Mihm needs to bulk up and they need a quality PG.

 

You honestly think the Lakers can win a title one day with Bryant, Odom, and Butler as their core???

 

 

re the Lakers better of without Shaq for the short-term? Absolutely not. Big man can still play, overweight, slow and injury-riddled or not.

 

But while the Heat try to make their run this season, the Lakers are MUCH better off and set for the future without O'Neal. Even Divac in his prime was better conditioned than O'Neal and he was able to keep it going for a while.. how much longer do you think Shaq will last as a force in Miami? By then, the Heat will turn into the Sixers Pt. II: One really good PG and trying to make a team work around him.

 

Dwayne Wade isnt as selfish as Iverson so that wont happen. Even if the Heat fall short the Lakers arent winning another championship for a long time. It amazes me how you can be so unappreciative of what Shaq .did for that team and put the blame on him for wanting to jump off the Titanic. ( He was still getting double-doubles in the NBA finals while Kobe folded like a tent)

[bob_barron 0]

I agree with all of Sass's points, especially the fuck Shaq sentiments.

 

He helped you guys win three titles and because he doesn't want to play with that little bitch you immediately turn on him? Laker fans are very ungreatful

[Guest]

All LA sports fans are this way, must be the lack of losing when it comes to hoops.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Oh seriously enough with this. When a game is coming down to the wire, there are few players I'd want more to take a game winning shot than Kobe. Don't you think, if Kobe REALLY wanted to fulfill his ego as much as everyone says he does, that he would want to win a championship without Shaq? He already has, and continues to prove he's one of the best in the league, he's got nothing to prove there, what he has left is win the championship or not.

 

WOW, he made a game-winning shot against the Bobcats thats something to hang your hat on!

WOW it's certainly not the first time he's done it! Game 2 of last year's finals (the only one the Lakers won, as a matter of fact) is a good example of a clutch play. Not to mention all the other last-second shots. Good job of maintaing your consistent stubbornness, though.

 

So instead of blaming Kobe for pushing Jackson out of town you blame Shaq for seeing a sinking ship and wanting out? Had Kobe not been such a selfish asshole maybe just maybe you beat the Pistons last year and keep the dynasty going but of course Kobe had to have things his way.

I don't blame Kobe for pushing Jackson out of town. Lakers management could have tried to resign him, but Phil was done after last year, championship or not. That much has been evident. He was the first one to go, Shaq saw it and decided to leave, and Kobe wanted to see the Lakers make a long-term commitment to him.

 

You honestly think the Lakers can win a title one day with Bryant, Odom, and Butler as their core???

 

Who would have thought the Suns would be able to contend with just Nash, Stoudemire, and Marion? Or that the Pistons won last year with the Wallaces and a very deep squad? Butler hasn't looked impressive, but with the right coaching, Kobe and Odom are a formidable pair.

 

Dwayne Wade isnt as selfish as Iverson so that wont happen. Even if the Heat fall short the Lakers arent winning another championship for a long time. It amazes me how you can be so unappreciative of what Shaq .did for that team and put the blame on him for wanting to jump off the Titanic. ( He was still getting double-doubles in the NBA finals while Kobe folded like a tent)

Yeah, it doesn't help when the Pistons' strategy was specifically to let Shaq get his points and triple-team Kobe while challenging the Lakers' depth (or lack thereof) to match Detroit's bench which were they completely unable to do. Jackson saw that, and even though his triangle scheme wasn't working, he decided to stick with it anyways. Shaq could have put up 60 or 70 points and it wouldn't have mattered because Detroit was focusing on guarding Kobe and the rest of the team.

 

It's been that way for the past few years now, minus the first Laker championship. Shut down Shaq, Kobe can step up. Shut down Kobe, the whole team has to step up and figure out a way to win.

 

He helped you guys win three titles and because he doesn't want to play with that little bitch you immediately turn on him? Laker fans are very ungreatful

Laker fans are usually either on Kobe's side or Shaq's side. I have a friend of mine who grew up with me watching the Lakers and he hates Kobe to death and likes watching Shaq. The rift wasn't just in the team, it's in the fanbase as well, apparently.

 

Also: I don't know how many times I have to say it, but I never "turned" on Shaq, if I never liked him much to begin with.

[Kurt Angle Mark 0]

Referee tells AI he is going to whip his ass.

 

PHILADELPHIA -- Allen Iverson said Monday he's been contacted by the NBA regarding his allegation that a referee made inappropriate comments to him during a heated exchange following the 76ers' loss to the Chicago Bulls.

 

He also said he expected to be fined or suspended because he started the argument.

 

Iverson, upset about calls, challenged referee Marc Davis after the 94-88 loss on Saturday, and said Davis responded by saying he would "whup my ass."

 

Iverson had to be restrained by teammates, and a few minutes later was seen heading in the direction of the referees' dressing room before general manager Billy King interceded and calmed him down.

 

"From the history of it, I suspect something will happen to me," said Iverson, who did not practice with the team because of a thumb injury. "I would not be surprised if they decide I was wrong and should be punished.

 

"I said things that if it was during a game I'd probably get a [technical foul]. And if I kept on going like I was, I would've been thrown out of the game."

 

NBA spokesman Tim Frank declined comment, citing an ongoing investigation.

 

Iverson said Davis' response surprised him, but he didn't think the referee would be unfair down the road to him or the team.

 

"Regardless of what he said, I don't think he'd do anything in the future as far as making calls against me," Iverson said. "I think he respects the game more than that."

[MrRant 0]

I'd love to see a AI vs Ref throwdown.

[Damaramu 0]

Did anyone see Avery Johnson losing it? That was some pretty funny shit. But he had a point. Yeah they were up huge but that's no excuse to quit playing. Hopefully he let the team know he wasn't going to put up with that shit.

[smh810 0]

WOW it's certainly not the first time he's done it! Game 2 of last year's finals (the only one the Lakers won, as a matter of fact) is a good example of a clutch play. Not to mention all the other last-second shots. Good job of maintaing your consistent stubbornness, though.

 

OH so he did it in Game 2 big deal I dont care if all 5 Pistons were covering him in the finals. "Great" players find a way to get around that and help their team win.

 

don't blame Kobe for pushing Jackson out of town. Lakers management could have tried to resign him, but Phil was done after last year, championship or not. That much has been evident. He was the first one to go, Shaq saw it and decided to leave, and Kobe wanted to see the Lakers make a long-term commitment to him.

 

You dont think a good chunk of the reason Phil was done no matter what was because of Kobe Bryant?

 

Who would have thought the Suns would be able to contend with just Nash, Stoudemire, and Marion? Or that the Pistons won last year with the Wallaces and a very deep squad? Butler hasn't looked impressive, but with the right coaching, Kobe and Odom are a formidable pair.

 

While I didnt see them pushing 60 wins I could've easily see Phoenix in the 50 win range just because of Steve Nash, also their kamikaze offense (which wont hold up in the playoffs) helps. You obviously wrent paying close attention to Detroit late in the season last year. Rasheed was the missing link and you should've know the NBA Finals were gonna be a struggle. Never mind a title I doubt the Lakers will hit 50 wins with Bryant and Odom together. Thryre not even close to the Wallace brothers or the trio in Phoenix?

 

Yeah, it doesn't help when the Pistons' strategy was specifically to let Shaq get his points and triple-team Kobe while challenging the Lakers' depth (or lack thereof) to match Detroit's bench which were they completely unable to do. Jackson saw that, and even though his triangle scheme wasn't working, he decided to stick with it anyways. Shaq could have put up 60 or 70 points and it wouldn't have mattered because Detroit was focusing on guarding Kobe and the rest of the team.

 

It's been that way for the past few years now, minus the first Laker championship. Shut down Shaq, Kobe can step up. Shut down Kobe, the whole team has to step up and figure out a way to win.

 

So what Shaq's effort was still there. Kobe's folded like a tent. Again if he was so great he would 've found a way to win.

 

Laker fans are usually either on Kobe's side or Shaq's side. I have a friend of mine who grew up with me watching the Lakers and he hates Kobe to death and likes watching Shaq. The rift wasn't just in the team, it's in the fanbase as well, apparently.

 

Also: I don't know how many times I have to say it, but I never "turned" on Shaq, if I never liked him much to begin with.

 

And those who support Kobe are completely ungreatful for what they had.

[Guest Vitamin X]

It's asinine to assume that if a player is being triple-teamed or worse that he can fight through that without the effort of his teammates. It doesn't matter how great you are, you need a supporting cast around you and good coaching to win games, and thus, championships.

 

I won't even dignify the rest of your post with a response, since you're going beyond the limits of an intelligent discussion into vehement Kobe-bashing without any evidence other than "OMG HE'S AN EGOTISTICAL BITCH" (and no, Phil Jackson and Shaq's comments don't count since we know where their feelings lie.. and even then, Jackson still might come back to coach the Lakers. If he was really that spiteful of Kobe, it wouldn't be a possibility) as if you'd know because you've hung out or met the guy before or something. If you're going to say something that has any actual meaning behind it, go ahead and I'll gladly debate it with you. But if this is just going to continue into degenerating into a thread-long "KOBE SUX" deal, I can't take you seriously enough to respond.

[smh810 0]

Boy... you diss one rapist and damn!!!

[Damaramu 0]

WOW it's certainly not the first time he's done it! Game 2 of last year's finals (the only one the Lakers won, as a matter of fact) is a good example of a clutch play. Not to mention all the other last-second shots. Good job of maintaing your consistent stubbornness, though.

 

OH so he did it in Game 2 big deal I dont care if all 5 Pistons were covering him in the finals. "Great" players find a way to get around that and help their team win.

 

Well all know if he had 5 Pistons on him he wouldn't have dished it to an open teammate. He would've tried to drive to the hoop anyways.

[mike546 0]

Allen Iverson arguabley got the Sixers to the finals on his back. And no disrespect to the Derek McKies, Eric Snows, who were playing well, but AI was DEFINTLEY being double and triple teamed, and got the Sixers to the NBA finals.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Boy... you diss one rapist and damn!!!

NEWSFLASH: The case was dropped!

[Guest Vitamin X]

Allen Iverson arguabley got the Sixers to the finals on his back. And no disrespect to the Derek McKies, Eric Snows, who were playing well, but AI was DEFINTLEY being double and triple teamed, and got the Sixers to the NBA finals.

No disrespect to AI, but compare the quality of the competition the Sixers faced and the quality of competition the Lakers faced in the NBA Finals last year against Detroit. Detroit was an extremely tough defense to go up against, especially with the teamwork and chemistry they had last year.

 

EDIT: For those curious about the competition, the Sixers beat the Pacers 3-1 in the first round, the Raptors 4-3 in the semi's, and the Bucks 4-3 in the Conference Finals before falling to the Lakers 4-1. This was the year the Lakers almost swept the playoffs were it not for that one overtime loss to Philly in the Finals.

[Ripper 0]

Allen Iverson arguabley got the Sixers to the finals on his back. And no disrespect to the Derek McKies, Eric Snows, who were playing well, but AI was DEFINTLEY being double and triple teamed, and got the Sixers to the NBA finals.

No disrespect to AI, but compare the quality of the competition the Sixers faced and the quality of competition the Lakers faced in the NBA Finals last year against Detroit. Detroit was an extremely tough defense to go up against, especially with the teamwork and chemistry they had last year.

 

EDIT: For those curious about the competition, the Sixers beat the Pacers 3-1 in the first round, the Raptors 4-3 in the semi's, and the Bucks 4-3 in the Conference Finals before falling to the Lakers 4-1. This was the year the Lakers almost swept the playoffs were it not for that one overtime loss to Philly in the Finals.

All three of those teams that the Sixers played that year were tough teams that all had legit chances at going to the finals (okay...not that pacer team...but the other two)