Florida Bill Would Allow Students To Sue Teachers

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

http://www.alligator.org/pt2/050323freedom.php

 

Capitol bill aims to control ‘leftist’ profs

THE LAW COULD LET STUDENTS SUE FOR UNTOLERATED BELIEFS.

 

By JAMES VANLANDINGHAM

Alligator Staff Writer

 

TALLAHASSEE — Republicans on the House Choice and Innovation Committee voted along party lines Tuesday to pass a bill that aims to stamp out “leftist totalitarianism” by “dictator professors” in the classrooms of Florida’s universities.

 

The Academic Freedom Bill of Rights, sponsored by Rep. Dennis Baxley, R-Ocala, passed 8-to-2 despite strenuous objections from the only two Democrats on the committee.

 

The bill has two more committees to pass before it can be considered by the full House.

 

While promoting the bill Tuesday, Baxley said a university education should be more than “one biased view by the professor, who as a dictator controls the classroom,” as part of “a misuse of their platform to indoctrinate the next generation with their own views.”

 

The bill sets a statewide standard that students cannot be punished for professing beliefs with which their professors disagree. Professors would also be advised to teach alternative “serious academic theories” that may disagree with their personal views.

 

According to a legislative staff analysis of the bill, the law would give students who think their beliefs are not being respected legal standing to sue professors and universities.

 

Students who believe their professor is singling them out for “public ridicule” – for instance, when professors use the Socratic method to force students to explain their theories in class – would also be given the right to sue.

 

“Some professors say, ‘Evolution is a fact. I don’t want to hear about Intelligent Design (a creationist theory), and if you don’t like it, there’s the door,’” Baxley said, citing one example when he thought a student should sue.

 

Rep. Dan Gelber, D-Miami Beach, warned of lawsuits from students enrolled in Holocaust history courses who believe the Holocaust never happened.

 

Similar suits could be filed by students who don’t believe astronauts landed on the moon, who believe teaching birth control is a sin or even by Shands medical students who refuse to perform blood transfusions and believe prayer is the only way to heal the body, Gelber added.

 

“This is a horrible step,” he said. “Universities will have to hire lawyers so our curricula can be decided by judges in courtrooms. Professors might have to pay court costs — even if they win — from their own pockets. This is not an innocent piece of legislation.”

 

The staff analysis also warned the bill may shift responsibility for determining whether a student’s freedom has been infringed from the faculty to the courts.

 

But Baxley brushed off Gelber’s concerns. “Freedom is a dangerous thing, and you might be exposed to things you don’t want to hear,” he said. “Being a businessman, I found out you can be sued for anything. Besides, if students are being persecuted and ridiculed for their beliefs, I think they should be given standing to sue.”

 

During the committee hearing, Baxley cast opposition to his bill as “leftists” struggling against “mainstream society.”

 

“The critics ridicule me for daring to stand up for students and faculty,” he said, adding that he was called a McCarthyist.

 

Baxley later said he had a list of students who were discriminated against by professors, but refused to reveal names because he felt they would be persecuted.

 

Rep. Eleanor Sobel, D-Hollywood, argued universities and the state Board of Governors already have policies in place to protect academic freedom. Moreover, a state law outlining how professors are supposed to teach would encroach on the board’s authority to manage state schools.

 

“The big hand of state government is going into the universities telling them how to teach,” she said. “This bill is the antithesis of academic freedom.”

 

But Baxley compared the state’s universities to children, saying the legislature should not give them money without providing “guidance” to their behavior.

 

“Professors are accountable for what they say or do,” he said. “They’re accountable to the rest of us in society … All of a sudden the faculty think they can do what they want and shut us out. Why is it so unheard of to say the professor shouldn’t be a dictator and control that room as their totalitarian niche?”

 

In an interview before the meeting, Baxley said “arrogant, elitist academics are swarming” to oppose the bill, and media reports misrepresented his intentions.

 

“I expect to be out there on my own pretty far,” he said. “I don’t expect to be part of a team.”

 

Hard to even find the right words to describe the stupidity of this bill. Hopefully this dies before it gains too much profile and becomes a real embarassment.

[Boon 0]

Hahaha. Wow.

 

We could use something like this in Massachusetts.

 

Damn liberals, lying to kids about landing on the moon and making them explain their theories and ideas. For shame!

[SuperJerk 0]

I'm going to laugh my ass off the first time a liberal student sues a conservative professor.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

This is absurd. A bill that basically prohibits free speech and opens a huge can of worms. But hey, the media is liberally biased.

[Slickster 0]

Yeah, like it will pass a Democratic-leaning Florida State Senate, much less the next 2 committees.

[SuperJerk 0]

Hey, here's a wacky idea....if you don't like the professors at your school, transfer somewhere else.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Hey I hate godless commie liberal bastard professors as much as the next guy, but even I have to admit this is going a little too far.

[Vyce 0]

Yeah, like it will pass a Democratic-leaning Florida State Senate, much less the next 2 committees.

Even if it did pass, I'm sure that the ACTIVIST judges in the Florida courts would overturn it anyway.

[SuperJerk 0]

You know, there ARE college professors out there who aren't liberals.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

You know, there ARE college professors out there who aren't liberals.

They're the ones who prefer not to be categorized. They think that they're too enlightened to fall into either the conservative or liberal camp...but they just end up being ultra-liberal.

[Guest BDC]

You know, there ARE college professors out there who aren't liberals.

Holy crap! Where?!

 

Jokes aside, I think this is an overreaction to professors getting off on making people who disagree with them look stupid. I've dealt with my share and called them on it. It was not a fun class.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Actually, two of my liberal professors this semester are both insanely nice guys, really tolerant and stuff about it. Guy I had last semester was just a prick though.

[SuperJerk 0]

You know, there ARE college professors out there who aren't liberals.

They're the ones who prefer not to be categorized. They think that they're too enlightened to fall into either the conservative or liberal camp...but they just end up being ultra-liberal.

Oh, bullshit. I had multiple history professors who made it their mission in life to bitch about the Clintons and Ted Kennedy.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Maybe Bill wasn't liberal enough for him. Can't explain Teddy though.

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

The part about students being allowed to sue because of professors using Socratic questioning is particularly hilarious. Oh poor baby, being asked a question in class? Boo hoo hoo.

[SuperJerk 0]

Maybe Bill wasn't liberal enough for him. Can't explain Teddy though.

Their criticism was not liberal in nature, but of the "he's immoral/spends too much/too weak on national security" variety.

[The Czech Republic 0]

The part about students being allowed to sue because of professors using Socratic questioning is particularly hilarious. Oh poor baby, being asked a question in class? Boo hoo hoo.

Yeah that's weak. Seriously.

 

 

Hey, speaking of liberalism that people pretend isn't there, I was listening to NPR on Sunday afternoon because it's the only place a person can hear any jazz on the radio. So I was listening to some really good Thelonious Monk, and I was considering donating like, I don't know, $20 to public radio to keep quality music on our airwaves. Then I hear "Coming up at 3: a discussion of how the Republican Party resembles the Third Reich." Never mind.

[Red Baron 0]

Aren't profs suppose to be neutral anyways.

[Guest MikeSC]

I'm going to laugh my ass off the first time a liberal student sues a conservative professor.

Good luck finding one.

This is absurd. A bill that basically prohibits free speech and opens a huge can of worms. But hey, the media is liberally biased.

I take it you've missed the outpouring of "speech codes" on college campuses.

 

"Free speech" has been dead for about a decade now.

 

If people want to see how bad the problem ACTUALLY is, look for the documentary "Columbia Unbecoming".

 

And, just to give you an idea, Ward Churchill DID, by all accounts, lecture in as moronic a manner as he spoke normally.

-=Mike

[SuperJerk 0]

Aren't profs suppose to be neutral anyways.

Sometimes professors have to express a viewpoint in order to get it out there so it can be looked at critically. I think the problem is that a lot of professors express opinions without realizing how many people are unable to recognize that that's all it is. I've had tons of professors express opinions (liberal, moderate, and conservative), but not a single one of them made agreeing with that opinion a requirement for doing well in the class.

 

I'm going to laugh my ass off the first time a liberal student sues a conservative professor.

Good luck finding one.

 

One what? A liberal student or a conservative professor? I've met plenty of both in my time.

[2GOLD 0]

Aren't profs suppose to be neutral anyways.

Sometimes professors have to express a viewpoint in order to get it out there so it can be looked at critically. I think the problem is that a lot of professors express opinions without realizing how many people are unable to recognize that that's all it is. I've had tons of professors express opinions (liberal, moderate, and conservative), but not a single one of them made agreeing with that opinion a requirement for doing well in the class.

 

I'm going to laugh my ass off the first time a liberal student sues a conservative professor.

Good luck finding one.

 

One what? A liberal student or a conservative professor? I've met plenty of both in my time.

 

I had tons.

And for lots of kids, transferring would mean losing out on tons of money already spent on other classes because of one pyscho prof. And transferring out of the class isn't possible since sometimes the nutty one is the only class available and that class is needed to stay on course to graduate on time. Punishing students because of a professor is equally pathetic.

 

What needs to be done is remove professors with god complexes and all will be well. There is a major difference between expressing your opinion and claiming your opinion is the way of the land. And I had plenty of professors from both sides of the fence pull that on me.

 

But this law is just nuts.

[The Czech Republic 0]

I take it you've missed the outpouring of "speech codes" on college campuses.

 

"Free speech" has been dead for about a decade now.

Are you referring to "free speech zones"? Because those are ridiculous.

[SuperJerk 0]

Aren't profs suppose to be neutral anyways.

Sometimes professors have to express a viewpoint in order to get it out there so it can be looked at critically. I think the problem is that a lot of professors express opinions without realizing how many people are unable to recognize that that's all it is. I've had tons of professors express opinions (liberal, moderate, and conservative), but not a single one of them made agreeing with that opinion a requirement for doing well in the class.

 

I'm going to laugh my ass off the first time a liberal student sues a conservative professor.

Good luck finding one.

 

One what? A liberal student or a conservative professor? I've met plenty of both in my time.

 

I had tons.

And for lots of kids, transferring would mean losing out on tons of money already spent on other classes because of one pyscho prof. And transferring out of the class isn't possible since sometimes the nutty one is the only class available and that class is needed to stay on course to graduate on time. Punishing students because of a professor is equally pathetic.

It depends on how far along in your program you are. A lot of schools are pricks about transfer credits, but usually if you stay in the same state you'll be okay. I'll admit, schools are way too tidewaddish when it comes to keeping money for dropped classes, though. But dropping a class is cheaper than getting a lawyer.

[2GOLD 0]

But it's still punishing students.

At the end of the day, these professors who pull this should be fired. Not for expressing opinion cause that is fine and dandy. But when they start feeling their opinion is law of their classroom, you hit a bad spot.

 

Christ I'm glad I got the hell out of college. That place really makes you start to hate mankind very very much.

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

I'm a mathematics professor. Should I have to be worried about getting sued by my students when I inform them that their answers are incorrect because they don't follow the mathematical rules I expect them to use? They could argue to a judge that they have their own system of mathematics and I should respect it, and, as crazy as it may seem, that would be LESS extreme than some of the examples already discussed, because mathematics is a synthetic subject rather than one based on fact and natural observation.

[Guest BDC]

I'm a mathematics professor. Should I have to be worried about getting sued by my students when I inform them that their answers are incorrect because they don't follow the mathematical rules I expect them to use? They could argue to a judge that they have their own system of mathematics and I should respect it, and, as crazy as it may seem, that would be LESS extreme than some of the examples already discussed, because mathematics is a synthetic subject rather than one based on fact and natural observation.

Your field isn't subjective in the slightest, so I wouldn't worry.

[SuperJerk 0]

But it's still punishing students.

At the end of the day, these professors who pull this should be fired. Not for expressing opinion cause that is fine and dandy. But when they start feeling their opinion is law of their classroom, you hit a bad spot.

Another strategy would be for the students to organize and complain to the department chair or to the school's administration. That might work better, and a complaint coming from multiple people carries more weight and credibility. Traditionally, I think this is the way most students try to handle these things.

 

Christ I'm glad I got the hell out of college. That place really makes you start to hate mankind very very much.

 

I wish I'd known not to take so many morning classes. Hot chicks very rarely attend morning classes. I went to class with so many frumpy girls that I was starting to think our school uniform was sweats and a ponytail.

 

 

I'm a mathematics professor.

 

I swear to God, this is the most educated wrestling mesage board in the history of the internet. We got math professors, law students, high school teachers, economists...

 

We're the Smart Marks, and we got the degrees to prove it.

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

I'm a mathematics professor. Should I have to be worried about getting sued by my students when I inform them that their answers are incorrect because they don't follow the mathematical rules I expect them to use? They could argue to a judge that they have their own system of mathematics and I should respect it, and, as crazy as it may seem, that would be LESS extreme than some of the examples already discussed, because mathematics is a synthetic subject rather than one based on fact and natural observation.

Your field isn't subjective in the slightest, so I wouldn't worry.

Actually that's not true at all. It's very hard to explain why though.

[Vyce 0]

Hey, speaking of liberalism that people pretend isn't there, I was listening to NPR on Sunday afternoon because it's the only place a person can hear any jazz on the radio.

 

Aren't you a little young to be a jazz fan?

[The Czech Republic 0]

No that wasn't ignorant at all