How would WWE react in the event of a tragedy?

[Slickster 0]

Could anyone please explain to me the benefits of stopping the show?

[bob_barron 0]

What was the benefit of stopping the baseball game where the ump died?

 

It's called having common decency and respect for the gravity of the situation took place.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

It's not about benefit, once you understand that, you'll see why there was no choice in the matter.

[Slickster 0]

bob, you keep failing to mention that the umpire died at the stadium and that was it. Owen didn't die immediately; he died in the ambulance and they spent time trying to revive him. This took seven minutes just getting him out of the arena; I don't know how long he was in the ambulance before he died. What are you supposed to do, wait around until you get a conclusive report on his condition? Vince had to do something and he evidently thought they could salvage the show.

 

What if you canceled the show and he hadn't died (as unlikely as that was)? You know there would have been lawsuits and demands for compensation anyway.

 

This was a no-win situation, but I think what Vince did made sense in the long term (though he wasn't thinking in that sense, I'm sure).

[bob_barron 0]

bob, you keep failing to mention that the umpire died at the stadium and that was it. Owen didn't die immediately; he died in the ambulance and they spent time trying to revive him.

 

The umpire just collapsed and happened to die.

 

Owen Hart fell 78 feet to his death.

 

Your comparison again makes no sense.

 

This took seven minutes just getting him out of the arena; I don't know how long he was in the ambulance before he died.

 

8 minutes into Owen's fall there was no signs of medical progress. When Owen was in the ambulance he was already clinically dead.

 

He made it to the hospital about 20 minutes later and there was next to no hope he was still alive.

 

What are you supposed to do, wait around until you get a conclusive report on his condition? Vince had to do something and he evidently thought they could salvage the show.

 

The minute Owen fell and it was obvious things were very very wrong, the show should've been called off.

 

What if you canceled the show and he hadn't died (as unlikely as that was)? You know there would have been lawsuits and demands for compensation anyway.

 

You don't understand the situation. Read Broken Harts and then get back to me on Owen possibly surviving.

 

Anyone who would've sued the WWF over the show being cancelled and Owen not dying would've been laughed out of court.

 

I think what Vince did made sense in the long term (though he wasn't thinking in that sense, I'm sure).

 

Yes because in the long term:

 

The WWF was made to look like a complete joke, a corporation with no class that does not give a fuck about its employees.

 

At the moment when the WWF was being criticised left and right for their content- showing no class and continuing a show like nothing happened after one of their wrestlers just died, really helped their detractors.

 

Wrestling was once again shown to be a scummy business filled with lowlifes who don't bat an eye when one of their own dies.

 

Go up to Martha Hart and explain to her about kayfabe and why they should've continued the show. I'm sure she'd love your reasoning.

[Slickster 0]

You don't see the corellation between wrestlers who try to keep the show going despite injury and why the wrestlers backstage wanted to keep the show going despite Owen's death?

 

Also, repeatedly emphasizing the fact that Owen died in a horrific way doesn't automatically validate your argument. Again, when Clint Malarchuk's throat was slit during an NHL game back in 1988 they cleaned up the blood and played on.

 

Using Martha Hart's book to validate your argument is like using "Unfit For Command" to argue against John Kerry; both are biased sources of information.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

YOU USE CARNY MORALITY FOR VALIDATION!!!!!

[Slickster 0]

And wrestling didn't evolve out of 'carny' roots? Lou Thesz didn't invent the term 'kayfabe.'

[The Czech Republic 0]

Something smells like MikeSC in here

[Slickster 0]

Well, I DID agree with him on something...

 

*stars and planets align, pigs fly*

[bob_barron 0]

You don't see the corellation between wrestlers who try to keep the show going despite injury and why the wrestlers backstage wanted to keep the show going despite Owen's death?

 

Not in the slightest. And I gave you 4 instances off the top of my head where matches have been stopped.

 

Also, repeatedly emphasizing the fact that Owen died in a horrific way doesn't automatically validate your argument.

 

When you invoke kayfabe and carny morality into an argument you are in no position to criticise other arguments.

 

Again, when Clint Malarchuk's throat was slit during an NHL game back in 1988 they cleaned up the blood and played on.

 

He didn't die nor suffer anything as horrific as Owen.

 

Are you refuting any of Martha Hart's claims?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Dude, Carnies aren't exactly the best source of moralistic integrity.

[bob_barron 0]

And wrestling didn't evolve out of 'carny' roots? Lou Thesz didn't invent the term 'kayfabe.'

And using carny mentality as your argument makes sense 'how'?

 

Owen died in 1999, not 1904

[The Czech Republic 0]

[bob_barron 0]

I'm wearing my Sox hat right now

[The Czech Republic 0]

I thought you returned it

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

That is distrubingly accurate. Right down to the blue mouth and big red "RUDO" on my chicken outfit.

[bob_barron 0]

I thought you returned it

My friend got me another one for Christmas. It costs less then $46 too

[The Czech Republic 0]

If Meatwad doesn't do TSM Comic Adventures, I'll have to.

[Slickster 0]

You don't see the corellation between wrestlers who try to keep the show going despite injury and why the wrestlers backstage wanted to keep the show going despite Owen's death?

 

Not in the slightest. And I gave you 4 instances off the top of my head where matches have been stopped.

 

And I provided around 10 examples when they weren't because the wrestlers themselves tried to continue the match. The matches you mentioned weren't stopped by the wrestlers themselves, but rather by the referees. There might be a pattern here...

 

Also, repeatedly emphasizing the fact that Owen died in a horrific way doesn't automatically validate your argument.

 

When you invoke kayfabe and carny morality into an argument you are in no position to criticise other arguments.

 

Again, I'm not saying that 'carny morality' isn't an oxymoron, but let's face it: this business grew out of that one and it has some similar maxims and beliefs.

Harley Race (born AFTER 1904) fully supported this decision (and I quoted him earlier in this thread). Also, saying "I don't like this opinion, therefore it is wrong" isn't an effective debate tactic in my opinion.

 

Again, when Clint Malarchuk's throat was slit during an NHL game back in 1988 they cleaned up the blood and played on.

 

He didn't die nor suffer anything as horrific as Owen.

 

We could debate about whether or not getting your JUGULAR VEIN SLICED OPEN isn't 'as horrific' as what happened to Owen, but the fact is that in both cases they played on and tried to get them medical attention. The fact that Malarchuk survived is pretty incredible.

 

Are you refuting any of Martha Hart's claims?

I'm not going down that road, bob. All I know is that Martha Hart already had reason to dislike McMahon before the Owen incident and that alone makes me take what she says with a grain of salt. I quote from "Sex, Lies, and Headlocks" because that book sees the WWE from a less-than-flattering perspective, yet the book's coverage of this incident portrays McMahon in a positive light.

[Slickster 0]

I, for one, am flattered to be immortalized in this comic.

[bob_barron 0]

And I provided around 10 examples when they weren't because the wrestlers themselves tried to continue the match. The matches you mentioned weren't stopped by the wrestlers themselves, but rather by the referees. There might be a pattern here...

 

The referees probably stopped the match because the wrestler said they could not continue.

 

Again, I'm not saying that 'carny morality' isn't an oxymoron, but let's face it: this business grew out of that one and it has some similar maxims and beliefs.

Harley Race (born AFTER 1904) fully supported this decision (and I quoted him earlier in this thread). Also, saying "I don't like this opinion, therefore it is wrong" isn't an effective debate tactic in my opinion.

 

I know what wrestling was formed out of but I would've hoped that in 1999, a wrestling promoter would have enough fucking semblance to stop a show after a guy plummeted 78 feet to his death. Sometimes there are more important things in life then the blowoff to Triple H v. The Rock.

 

Regarding the hockey argument- I still think it's different then what happened to Owen and it sounds like they should've stopped the game as well.

 

I'm not going down that road, bob. All I know is that Martha Hart already had reason to dislike McMahon before the Owen incident and that alone makes me take what she says with a grain of salt. I quote from "Sex, Lies, and Headlocks" because that book sees the WWE from a less-than-flattering perspective, yet the book's coverage of this incident portrays McMahon in a positive light.

 

Nothing I said was Martha Hart's opinion. Everything I said was based on fact that is included in her book to tell the reader everything that happened to Owen on May 23, 1999. Are there any of the claims I posted that you want to refute, because otherwise taking cheapshots at Martha Hart is irrelevant.

[Guest wolverine1007]

Personally, I don't see how anyone can make an argument one way or the other about whether or not the WWE made the right choice. What is the right choice when someone dies in the manner that Owen did?

 

The argument about WWE not wanting to lose any money is absurd too, in my opinion, because how much money do you think they would make if they were to have ever released Over the Edge 99 for sale?

[Slickster 0]

The argument about WWE not wanting to lose any money is absurd too, in my opinion, because how much money do you think they would make if they were to have ever released Over the Edge 99 for sale?

Well, if they ever were to release it they would get killed by critics for making money off his death. However, the fact is that the PPV grossed ~$4 million from gate and PPV buys.

[Guest Ransome]

The argument about WWE not wanting to lose any money is absurd too, in my opinion, because how much money do you think they would make if they were to have ever released Over the Edge 99 for sale?

Well, if they ever were to release it they would get killed by critics for making money off his death. However, the fact is that the PPV grossed ~$4 million from gate and PPV buys.

They seem to have erased Over the Edge 99 from history, but I'd like to see them release at least part of the show. As far as I know, the first time they showed footage from OTE 99 was on the Benoit DVD, where we see JR and King announcing Owen's death, and a snippet of the main event at Survivor Series 04. I for one would like to see the entirety of Undertaker's title win match.

 

I probably wouldn't care, except that it's been a bit of a quest of mine to see every WWF/E heavyweight title change, and UT/Austin from OTE 99 is one of the few that has eluded me.

[Guest wolverine1007]

Well, if they ever were to release it they would get killed by critics for making money off his death. However, the fact is that the PPV grossed ~$4 million from gate and PPV buys.

Well, the fact is that they lost 18 million dollars in the settlement with Martha Hart. Since the WWE got roasted for both the lawsuit and the accident, and if they were really that stone-faced about it, why not have released it to offset costs there?

[Slickster 0]

I think the one reason why is because of the criticism they would receive for selling this event. Even if all proceeds went to charity, critics would charge that it would still be promoting the WWE name.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

The WWE is worried about lawsuits from Martha Hart, plain and simple. Or, even worse, *gasp*, having to pay royalties. If they could make a buck off Owen dying, they would. These people have no shame, they are scum.

 

What is the right choice when someone dies in the manner that Owen did?

 

There is no choice. You stop the show.

[Guest Brian]

The argument about WWE not wanting to lose any money is absurd too, in my opinion, because how much money do you think they would make if they were to have ever released Over the Edge 99 for sale?

Well, if they ever were to release it they would get killed by critics for making money off his death.

Isn't that what they did? They sacrificed Owen nonchalantly to continue a show so they wouldn't lose money. Spot-on.

[Guest wolverine1007]

I don't want it to sound cold-hearted when i say this, because Owen is probably one of my three favorite wrestlers of all time, but he was still going to be dead after the show was over, the fingers were still going to be pointed after the show was over, and everything that happened that night, and since that night, still would have happened regardless.

 

Whether the show stopped at the time or continued on really makes no difference in the grand scheme of things. That Owen Hart suffered this tragic accident is the only thing that mattered in this case.

 

Back to the subject this topic was about originally, if Vince was to have a heart attack backstage at Wrestlemania 21 this Sunday, would they cancel the PPV? I honestly don't think they would.