One and Only Star Wars Geekiness Thread

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

1. A New Hope. This and ESB might as well be 1 and 1A, but I've always thought that ESB misses the presence of Peter Cushing and especially Alec Guiness. Plus this one had the more engaging climax. It also works better as a stand alone movie thanks to the non-ending of ESB. ESB & ROTJ pretty much have to be watched together.

 

2. The Empire Strikes Back. What everybody says about this film is true, I just enjoy ANH a little bit more.

 

3. Revenge of the Sith. Some very emotional moments and could have been right up there with the top two if it was more focused. The whole first half with Greivous is more distracting than important and thus the film drags a bit from the Dooku conflict until Windu/Palpatine. Portman was a terrible Padme. But the last half of the film is quite amazing.

 

4. Attack of the Clones. The romance was terrible, but I was quite interested in the Obi-Wan/Clones plot and Dooku is a great villain. Non-stop action once Anakin reaches Geonosis.

 

5. Return of the Jedi. Everything involving Luke, Vader & Palpatine is the best stuff in the series. But the movie fails pretty much everywhere else. I can handle the Jabba sequence, even if it is too cartoony to be any serious threat, but the Endor/Rebel stuff is terrible and the final battle pales in comparison to Hoth & Yavin. The acting from every returning cast member besides Mark Hamill takes a dive. People who complain about Ewan McGregor & Hayden Christensen in ROTS sure haven't seen Harrison Ford sleep-walking through this one and Carrie Fisher being coked out of her mind.

 

6. The Phantom Menace. My main problem with this is that it gets away from what we wanted with the prequels in the first place. I really enjoyed the sequences on Tatooine and the Pod Race, but these movies are supposed to be about Anakin and he is barely around for the rest of the film. It doesn't help that the other main character, Obi-Wan Kenobi, spends half the movie sitting on the ship. In addition, Darth Maul was a terrible villain. Even Grievous was more interesting.

[SuperJerk 0]

I'm surprised at your reasoning for ranking Clones that high, Kahran, since the Obi-Wan/Clones subplot you find interesting was never actually resolved in either that movie or the next movie. I think Lucas seriously fucked that movie up by never really answering the particular questions that Obi-Wan was trying to figure out.

 

- Vader (to Luke): "Turn to the dark side! It is the only way to save your friends!"

Obviously a callback to Anakin turning to the dark side in order to save Padme's life. He wants Luke to do the same for his loved ones.

 

Don't see how that really applies as it didn't help Anakin/Vader out too well in the end.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It doesn't make sense to you because you're using regular real-world logic, rather than evil movie super-villian twisted logic.

Edited May 31, 2005 by RobotJerk

[Rendclaw 0]

6. The Phantom Menace. My main problem with this is that it gets away from what we wanted with the prequels in the first place. I really enjoyed the sequences on Tatooine and the Pod Race, but these movies are supposed to be about Anakin and he is barely around for the rest of the film. It doesn't help that the other main character, Obi-Wan Kenobi, spends half the movie sitting on the ship. In addition, Darth Maul was a terrible villain. Even Grievous was more interesting.

 

Personally, Darth Maul should have been kept around until Clones and then killed by Anakin, while Obi-Wan fought and got beat by Dooku, then Yoda saves him. It would have made a better sequence, for sure.

 

I can;t agree about Grievous being more interesting. The only way you understood what was going on with him was by watching those damned annoying 5 minute cartoons. I think that more could have been done with Maul to make him more interesting, though his fighting style made him much more interesting to watch than either Grievous or Dooku.

[SuperJerk 0]

Lucas pretty firmly established that there can only be two Sith at a time. The reason the Sith died out, according to Lucas, is because their greed and lust for power caused them to kill each other off. By only having 2 Sith at a time, a more-powerful master and an lesser apprentice, there's no chance of 2 Sith ganging up on the Master and taking him out (which is what Vader was trying to do in Empire Strikes Back).

 

The problem with Maul is that he was too scary looking to be anything but an evil henchman. Could you see Maul leading a Separatist movement against the Republic, or some day helping run the Empire?

 

Maul served his 2 purposes: get QuiGon out of the way and put Obi-Wan over.

Edited May 31, 2005 by RobotJerk

[cabbageboy 0]

Kahran I can see bemoaning the loss of Guinness but why Cushing? Tarkin was a thoroughly mediocre heel I thought, resorting to cheap heat by blowing up planets and that sort of thing. I shit you not, I all but forgot Peter Cushing was even IN the film until I watched it again, that's how much better Vader was as a heel.

 

I do agree that Ford was cashing the paycheck in Jedi but scriptwise Han has little to do in the film. After being rescued from Jabba he's blind for a while and then mostly fights the gimp stormtroopers on Endor. Hell, Lando has more important stuff to do in the film, like blow up the Death Star. I agree that the Endor stuff is the weakest part of the film but it still has the most compelling stuff in the trilogy (Luke/Vader/Emperor) as well as the best space battle.

 

RobotJerk, you're right about Maul. He never could be more than an enforcer type heel, a thug. Not counting Anakin/Vader as a total heel I'd say that Count Dooku is the 2nd best heel in the series behind only the Emperor. Dooku is the man, authoritative, dignified, and extremely powerful.

Edited May 31, 2005 by cabbageboy

[Naked Snake 0]

I watched ROTJ today and there are quite a few lines that have new meaning now that ROTS is out.

- Vader (to Luke): "Turn to the dark side!  It is the only way to save your friends!"

Obviously a callback to Anakin turning to the dark side in order to save Padme's life.  He wants Luke to do the same for his loved ones.

 

- The scene where Luke cuts off Vader's hand, but refuses to finish him  (even though it was Vader who cut off his hand) has even more meaning now that we know that Anakin went through the same thing with Dooku. Luke was strong enough to resist the dark side, but Anakin was weak and succame to his anger.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Lucas said his intent was to put Anakin and Luke in similar situations and have their choices dictate what type of Jedi they would become.

 

Luke could have been duped into turning to the dark side to save his loved ones, much like Anakin did, but he believed in the teachings of Yoda and Obi Wan more.

 

The whole Vader vs Luke and Anakin vs Tyranus scene is another example of this. Dooku flips to enter the scene much like Vader flips when Luke kicks him in that spot. Likewise with Palpatine watching while a battle is going on behind him. Same with Palpatine's "Good" (he says this to both Luke when he has the upper hand with Vader, and Anakin when he has the upper hand with Dooku.)

 

Anakin was hit with force lightning in Episode II and knows how painful that is. Watching his son feel the same thing must have been hard.

 

My rankings

 

Empire Strikes Back

A New Hope

Revenge of the Sith

Return of the Jedi

Attack of the Clones

The Phantom Menace

 

Why did Vader kill the Seperatists? I'm missing a big thing here. Is it because they wanted the Death Star for themselves? Or just to fill a plot hole?

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

Finally saw this yesterday. It sucked, the end. Much better than either of the other two prequels, still pretty lousy overall. Fun to see how all the plotting came together, but devoid of anything really gripping except maybe for the first half of the Samuel L./Emperor scene. And of course, anything involving Yoda was kinda fun. Still, all the shiny computer graphics in the world and miserable writing to match can't make up for the wit and care put into the original movies. Revenge of the Sith is entirely forgettable, unless you're desperately insistent on remembering it.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Kahran I can see bemoaning the loss of Guinness but why Cushing? Tarkin was a thoroughly mediocre heel I thought, resorting to cheap heat by blowing up planets and that sort of thing. I shit you not, I all but forgot Peter Cushing was even IN the film until I watched it again, that's how much better Vader was as a heel.

 

And Cushing was charismatic enough to make it work. I realize that he had to be killed off, and the character wasn't that interesting, but Cushing gave a great performance which is rare in these movies. Kind of like McDiarmid in ROTS, without his character being written as well (Palpatine is the one guy Lucas always got right).

 

The lost of Guiness hurt the most though. The good guys aren't the same without him.

 

I'm surprised at your reasoning for ranking Clones that high, Kahran, since the Obi-Wan/Clones subplot you find interesting was never actually resolved in either that movie or the next movie. I think Lucas seriously fucked that movie up by never really answering the particular questions that Obi-Wan was trying to figure out.

 

Like what? The stuff about Sifo-Dyas? We all know that it was Palpatine that manipulate the whole thing. Sifo-Dyas was either Dooku or some other puppet that was then killed off. It doesn't really matter who he was, because Palpatine is the big dog and everyone knows it.

[Guest SP-1]

I've always imagined Dooku as Syfo-Dias. He gets involved with the emperor shortly after Maul's death, secretly orders the Clones and leaves the order (erasing Camino from the archives in the process), and takes on his Sith name, doubling as Dooku for his political machinations.

 

I mean, Qui-Gon was his Padawan, Yoda was his master. He was clearly affiliated with the order before (Yoda himself even says so in the beginning). I think this makes the most sense, and was explained in Ep. II, though in a more implied than direct way.

Edited May 31, 2005 by SP-1

[CBright7831 0]

http://ter.air0day.com/?script=revengeofthesith

 

SAMUEL L. MOTHERFUCKING JACKSON enters IAN MCDIARMID'S

CHAMBER.

 

SAMUEL L. MOTHERFUCKING JACKSON

Ian, you're under arrest for being

a manipulative motherfucker.

 

IAN MCDIARMID

I got a threshold, Jedi. I got a

threshold for the abuse I'll take.

And right now I'm a race car and you

got me in the red. I'm just saying

that it's fuckin' dangerous to have

a racecar in the fuckin' red. It

could blow.

 

SAMUEL L. MOTHERFUCKING JACKSON

Oh, you're gettin' ready to blow?

 

IAN MCDIARMID

I could blow.

 

SAMUEL L. MOTHERFUCKING JACKSON

Well I'm a mushroom-cloud-layin'

motherfucker, motherfucker! Every

time my fingers touch my lightsaber

I'm Superfly TNT. I'm the Guns of

Navarone.

 

Edited May 31, 2005 by CBright7831

[Guest Vitamin X]

That was retarded.

 

And my rankings have changed, kinda..

 

1. Empire Strikes Back

2. Revenge of the Sith

3. Return of the Jedi

4. Attack of the Clones

5. A New Hope

6. The Phantom Menace

 

I initially had ROTJ as #1, but I watched it the other day and was surprised to see that I completely forgot the first hour and a half was a fucking Muppet Show. The movie only really begins picking up right when Luke gives himself up and he starts talking to his father about how it's not too late to turn to the light again, then all the shit goes down on Endor, the Death Star, the Republic battle fleet, the Emperor, etc... The ending more than makes up for the Jabba and Ewoks, but still that puts it below ESB and ROTS, which are the only two movies that actually take themselves seriously without being terrible (That's what AOTC and ANH are for).

[SuperJerk 0]

Like what?  The stuff about Sifo-Dyas?  We all know that it was Palpatine that manipulate the whole thing.  Sifo-Dyas was either Dooku or some other puppet that was then killed off.  It doesn't really matter who he was, because Palpatine is the big dog and everyone knows it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And yet, fans will be arguing over it until the end of time.

 

I've already given my thoughts on the topic of Sifo Dyas's identity, and let's jst say I think SP-1 is totlally wrong and leave it at that. Much like the Leia remembering her mom thing, I'm tired of debating it.

 

Why did Vader kill the Seperatists? I'm missing a big thing here. Is it because they wanted the Death Star for themselves? Or just to fill a plot hole?

 

It was only a matter of time before they figured out that the new Emperor was the same scary hooded gravelly-voiced bastard who not only started the Separatist movement, and was behind the invasion of Naboo 13 years earlier. The had too much dirt on him, and he couldn't leave them out there to potentially expose him for playing both sides of the war.

[cabbageboy 0]

The question isn't "Why kill the Separtists/Trade Federation?" It's more like "Why not?" They were dumbasses, easily manipulated for a time, but as long as they were out there the Clone Wars could be started again and once the Emperor had total control they really served no purpose. Besides, the Trade Federation are the lamest heels in cinema history....if I can't get a Jar Jar death scene, I can live with seeing those dipshits get whacked by Vader.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

The Separatists had an army, hence they were a threat to him. That's why he killed them off. Ever read Animal Farm? Compare it to what happens to Boxer.

[Rendclaw 0]

Not to mention that the Trade Federation had resources that I am sure was subsumed into the Empire. It was obvious from the first five minutes of TPM that the Trade Federation were nothing but Palpatine's tools.

 

I know this is a wrestling site, but please, cool out on the wrestling terminology when discussing non-wrestling stuff, sheesh

[CBright7831 0]

How dare you all insult my Trade Federation!

 

I want droidekas up here at once!

[LaParkaMarka 0]

The Trade Federation were extremely powerful, if mostly in an economic sense. Who else could afford to build and maintain giant fleets of battleships and armies of droids? They had to be weakened and eventually subsumed into the Empire, or else they could have put up quite a resistance to Palpatine. Hence his manipulation of them to start a Seperatist movement, deplete their armies/ships/money/power, and slaughter their leaders. Plus the Seperatists were the ones who most wanted change; they didn't want to be part of a bloated Republic and probably wouldn't want to be part of a dictatorial Empire. By taking out the people who were most vocal about their beliefs and willing to rise up against the Republic because of them, Palpatine crushed a huge possible threat to his Empire.

 

By taking out the Seperatists, Trade Federation, and Jedi, there was no real organized resistance. Hence the Rebels being a rag-tag bunch of losers until blowing up the Death Star.

Edited May 31, 2005 by LaParkaMarka

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

By taking out the people who were most vocal about their beliefs and willing to rise up against the Republic because of them, Palpatine crushed a huge possible threat to his Empire.

 

True. When Gunray was talking about peace, I imagine he thought that they would become seperate from the Republic.

[Rendclaw 0]

By taking out the people who were most vocal about their beliefs and willing to rise up against the Republic because of them, Palpatine crushed a huge possible threat to his Empire.

 

True. When Gunray was talking about peace, I imagine he thought that they would become seperate from the Republic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Exactly. As I said to someone I work with who is as much of a Star Wars fan as I am if not more so, the manipulative powers of Palpatine can never be overstated. It awes me in some ways to have that many balls in the air and have them come down pretty much exactly as he wanted them too. He played up the fears of the Senate, The Jedi, The Trade Federation, and they reacted almost exactly how he wanted them to.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

By taking out the people who were most vocal about their beliefs and willing to rise up against the Republic because of them, Palpatine crushed a huge possible threat to his Empire.

 

True. When Gunray was talking about peace, I imagine he thought that they would become seperate from the Republic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Exactly. As I said to someone I work with who is as much of a Star Wars fan as I am if not more so, the manipulative powers of Palpatine can never be overstated. It awes me in some ways to have that many balls in the air and have them come down pretty much exactly as he wanted them too. He played up the fears of the Senate, The Jedi, The Trade Federation, and they reacted almost exactly how he wanted them to.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah...the only wild card that messed everything up for him at the end was Luke helping Anakin good again.

[SuperJerk 0]

I know this is a wrestling site, but please, cool out on the wrestling terminology when discussing non-wrestling stuff, sheesh

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm no-selling your request.

[AmericanDragon 0]

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=episode3

[LaParkaMarka 0]

Yeah...the only wild card that messed everything up for him at the end was Luke helping Anakin good again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Luke period messed up his plans. If Anakin didn't knock Padme up, there would be no Luke or Leia; the Rebels wouldn't have had Leia as a diplomat and leader, and the Death Star would have obliterated the Yavin IV along with the Rebels. And the Empire would have ruled in peace. No Senate, no Rebels, no Jedi. Who would have stopped Palpatine after that?

[ChrisMWaters 0]

Who would have stopped Palpatine after that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

?

 

?

 

?

 

?

 

?

 

...OK, maybe not that last one.

[Red Baron 0]

 

He probably had a good shot too.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

 

He probably had a good shot too. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

As long as it was that version and not this one...

 

 

...then I agree.

[eiker_ir 0]

 

i see that your Schwarz is as BIG as mine.....

let's see how well you HAAAANDLE it!

[CBright7831 0]

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=episode3

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've never found Maddox's opinion to be worth a damn and you shouldn't either. Somebody hand him some cucumbers to put on his eyes. He can kiss my fucking ass. ROTS was one of the best of the entire series.

 

BTW, I didn't even read his shitastic article.

Edited June 1, 2005 by CBright7831

[Guest SP-1]

Maddox is good for a laugh. But that's about it, as far as his writing goes.

 

RobotJerk: Personally, I'm hoping for something at least semi-official sooner or later in the EU. Maybe even explore it in one of the TV series or something. I wasn't looking for debate, just putting forth my thoughts. I think Lucas dropped the ball by not spelling it out in Ep. II.

[cabbageboy 0]

I assume that "quit using wrestling terms" comment was directed at me calling the Trade Federation the lamest heels ever? Heel isn't just a wrestling term, it refers to any sort of bad guy be it movie or wrestling, etc. As with Uncle Billy in It's a Wonderful Life: "Not every heel was in Germany or Japan."

 

I maintain that the Trade Federation guys are worse than Jar Jar. Jar Jar was mostly there for dorky comedy relief, kind of an animated Stepin Fetchit (Yowsa Massa Qui Gon, yowsa). He's lame and at times cringeworthy but the Trade Federation are the same sort of embarrassing cartoon ethnic stereotypes (vaguely Asian), but they are the main heels of at least the first film and still important throughout the trilogy. Not to mention they are crapped on from the outset. Qui Gon calls them lame cowards, their plans are dictated by Sidious, who is playing them as Palpatine behind their backs. When your main heel tactic is "I'll put an embargo on yo ass!" you are a lame heel.