Brand Split

[Promoter 0]

There is good and bad to the brand split, but this is the MAJOR flaw people on the net or in the wwe have not noticed. A big component that people always use is that it gives people time to shine, but there is a flaw in this. It also makes fans notice the weakness of the wrestlers before their time.

 

Let's look at guys they have pushed prematurely in the last couple of years and look at how guys in the 80's developed. How the brand split has kind of neutered some progression although it made progression by pushing guys to the top. If there was one roster some fail to realize that people like Randy Orton MIGHT be better off.

 

Randy Orton, John Cena, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, JBL, Brock Lesnar, Benjamin, etc. The majority of the guys WOULD be midcarders 15-20 years ago, but that is not a bad thing. That is where they really belong. Orton in all truth should not have been a world champion already. If he was in the mid-card of a monster roster he would be in the middle of the cards, so would be John Cena. They would stand out in the midcard, but they would not be exposed either. The top of the card would still have HBK, Angle, UT, HHH, and whatnot.

 

Okay, in the 80's Hulk Hogan was at the top and the wwwf would rotate guys from the mid-card uppercard with Hogan in the world title scene. Everyone believed Hogan as the world champion and if someone like Butch Reed was put into a feud with Hogan it kind of legitimized them as superstars to reach to the top of the card. However, Butch Reed was really only mid-card. The real big feuds that everyone remembers are with the seasoned veterans like Andre, Dibiase, Savage, etc. However, when someone got the tools after being IC champion he would move to Hogan at the top.

 

Now, let's look at last year with Benoit and Eddie. Both men worked hard all of these years to reach the top, but the wwe blew their whole wad by telling the same story twice within a month. If there was one world champion, the wwe could have told Eddie's story this year and crown him as champion. He would be a champion of a full roster that could help him instead of hinder him like smackdown's diluted roster last year at this time. Orton could have still been in Evolution and they could have ran Orton/HHH when Orton was well seasoned because HHH would still be facing other seasoned guys with a full roster. The brand split was suppose to slow things down, but it has actually rushed things such as Brock Lesnar. Lesnar really started to come into his own in late 2003. Guys like Jericho have become less marketable and useful due to the brand splut having newer guys doing what he took years to do within a couple of years. I don't know, maybe this is the problem that has caused the comapny to fall since doing the brand split. Things are being too watered down and the masses knows it. When guys like Randy Savage are two time champions, yet we have a guy like Brock Lesnar being champ more times with less ability it makes the product look weaker than years ago. It's a crime that someone like Roddy Piper never became champion, yet JBL reigned so damn long.

Since we got to put up with HHH in the main event scene wouldn't it have been better if he was mixed in the angles used by the heel champions of smackdown in angles against Eddie and whatnot? It would have been much better than the crap he was doing with guys like Steiner. Of course, there is bad to this, but just seeing how things would go the opposite direction without the brand split.

 

I was thinking about this after reading this rumour on the net:

 

The general feeling among many within WWE at this time towards both John Cena and Batista as the World Champions for each respective brand is that they should not be measured or compared against the likes of Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock, Bret Hart or Shawn Michaels when they were all top babyface champions at one point in their careers. Vince McMahon has reportedly made it clear to many critics that the reason Cena and Batista are in the positions they are right now is because of a lack of fresher, more "ready options" in his opinion. McMahon has taken the approach that it's expected that both will make mistakes along the way and probably not get pops that Steve Austin or The Rock got at their peaks (although I'm sure some would argue that point given the large amount of reaction Cena is getting every week on SmackDown, especially in Birmingham last week).

 

At this point, both Cena and Batista are being labeled by those in the company as "projects" who have some weaknesses that were expected, but with some work and tutoring they could eventually become reliable stars. "Neither of them is better than mid-carders by the standards of 15 or 20 years ago, but they have varying levels of charisma and marketable looks," said one WWE source. When it comes to talking on the mic, Cena is obviously considered the stronger of the two. Plus, with youth on Cena's side, there will be much more patience for him. Batista on the other hand is considered much weaker on the mic, but more over at this time as a top draw for the company. Despite this taking place, one top WWE source is disagreeing with the approach adding, "How many examples are there of more seasoned wrestlers who are more ready for this kind of push who have been saddled with lame comedy acts which mean nothing, while Batista is being pushed into this top spot prematurely.

[Guest jac52]

i hate the brand split too

[Carnival 0]

I think it was a great idea.

 

But I agree they have put the belt on some people too soon. They have completely forgot that people can get over in the midcard too. They are desperate for a new star.

[Papacita 0]

You point to a major problem with WWE booking over the past couple of years (pushing guys who aren't ready), but I don't think that's something that you can blame on the split. The main problem I've had with the pushes of Orton, JBL and Brock to a lesser extent is that there was no need to force those guys into those spots when they did. They had more experienced guys like Angle, like Jericho, Booker, RVD and Kane who had already established a connection with the fans and could've easily stepped into top spots to round out the upper card why the new guys could develop in the undercard. But rather than give these guys a chance, for God knows what reason, they completely overlooked them in favor of pushing these guys with little-to-no credibility with the fans. I mean, yes the split opens up a lot of card space (something they needed badly back in 01/02) that's gonna have to be filled by younger guys, but I maintain that with the exception of Cena, there was never any urgency to move any of these guys into top spots at the time they did.

[SuperJerk 0]

If the WWE pushes new guys, everyone bitches they're pushing guys too fast.

 

If WWE pushes old guys, everyone bitches they're not making any new stars.

 

 

 

Make up your fucking minds, people!

[AndrewTS 0]

If the WWE pushes new guys, everyone bitches they're pushing guys too fast.

 

If WWE pushes old guys, everyone bitches they're not making any new stars.

 

 

 

Make up your fucking minds, people!

Hasn't this same bullshit argument been made countless times already?

 

It's a false dilemma.

 

The problem is that WWE rarely pushes anybody any good.

 

Come to think of it, this same thread had been made countless times already, and I doubt this one will break any new ground the others haven't.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

If the WWE pushes new guys, everyone bitches they're pushing guys too fast.

 

No, just the ones who suck, namely Randy Orton. I have absolutely no problem with Lesnar, Cena, JBL or Batista.

 

If WWE pushes old guys, everyone bitches they're not making any new stars.

 

Only when the old guys become stale. Nobody was complaining about The Rock in 2000, even though he was on top for 2 years by that point. But HHH & Taker have been around for so long that they have lost the appeal that they once had. Not to say they don't have value, because they do if used properly (and I don't just mean being jobbed out), but they shouldn't be the main focus for 40 minutes of every show. Taker & Shawn seem to realize this, HHH does not.

[razazteca 0]

If the WWE pushes new guys, everyone bitches they're pushing guys too fast.

 

If WWE pushes old guys, everyone bitches they're not making any new stars.

 

 

 

Make up your fucking minds, people!

Stars should come out of the midcard not straight out of wrestling school.

[AndrewTS 0]

If the WWE pushes new guys, everyone bitches they're pushing guys too fast.

 

If WWE pushes old guys, everyone bitches they're not making any new stars.

 

 

 

Make up your fucking minds, people!

Stars should come out of the midcard not straight out of wrestling school.

*What I meant to say, but better and more concise. Thanks.*^^

[SuperJerk 0]

If the WWE pushes new guys, everyone bitches they're pushing guys too fast.

 

No, just the ones who suck, namely Randy Orton. I have absolutely no problem with Lesnar, Cena, JBL or Batista.

I've seen lots of people complain about all four of those guys rather recently.

 

 

Face it folks, when people say EITHER "they're pushing guys too fast" or "they're not making any new stars", they're just projecting their own talent biases and masquerading it as a sound business strategy, rather than admitting what it really is: one person's opinion on who should be pushed.

[AndrewTS 0]

Face it folks, when the WWE pushes some green guy few out of OVW, scales back somebody's push when it is going well, or focuses constantly on older talent at the extent of viable midcard alternatives, they're just projecting their own talent biases and masquerading it as a sound business strategy, rather than admitting what it really is: Vince's opinion on who should be pushed.

I fixed your post.

 

Plenty of people feel Cena probably will work business-wise, but feel his wrestling is abysmal.

 

JBL has gotten much, much more liked, but everyone knows there's no real evidence he's a draw.

 

Batista's getting the Benoit treatment now. He'll be back in the midcard come Summerslam, likely.

 

There's much to be said about the idea that Lesnar may very well *have* been pushed too fast, although perhaps different treatment may have produced the same result regardless.

[Guest LooneyTune]

WWE should push new stars, but shouldn't do it right out of the gate, or should push people with :gasp: talent.

 

1. Brock Lesnar, shoved down our throats since day one, couldn't get heat until he destroyed Hogan, Rocky, and 'Taker, and didn't show any talent until nearly a year after he made his debut.

2. JBL, a Tag Team Midcarder who couldn't wrestle worth a damn.

3. John Cena, see JBL minus the Tag Team part.

4. Batista, sorry, but he still sucks in the ring.

5. Randy Orton, someone I can rant about for an hour because he's just that bland/bad/boring.

[Mole 0]

The general feeling among many within WWE at this time towards both John Cena and Batista as the World Champions for each respective brand is that they should not be measured or compared against the likes of Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock, Bret Hart or Shawn Michaels when they were all top babyface champions at one point in their careers. Vince McMahon has reportedly made it clear to many critics that the reason Cena and Batista are in the positions they are right now is because of a lack of fresher, more "ready options" in his opinion/

Umm, when has Vince ever said anything too the "critics?" That's because he never has. Vince doesn't give two shits about what they say, he does whatever he fuckin wants because he can.

 

I don't mind the brand split. I only really watch Raw though.

[Guest MikeSC]

The brand split has been one of the best ideas the WWE has ever had. It's given tons of guys chances they would have never otherwise received (John Cena would've been buried without it).

-=Mike

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

If the WWE pushes new guys, everyone bitches they're pushing guys too fast.

 

No, just the ones who suck, namely Randy Orton. I have absolutely no problem with Lesnar, Cena, JBL or Batista.

I've seen lots of people complain about all four of those guys rather recently.

 

 

Face it folks, when people say EITHER "they're pushing guys too fast" or "they're not making any new stars", they're just projecting their own talent biases and masquerading it as a sound business strategy, rather than admitting what it really is: one person's opinion on who should be pushed.

Actually they killed the good push Cena had in 2002 when everyone was interested in seeing him.

[Promoter 0]

Mole, I think there must be at least some truth to the rumour. The reason I think this is that HHH's interview on OTR, he stated Orton and the newer guys are still learning and that they haven't been able to make new stars like Rock and Austin because sometimes when they think a certain guy can do something they want they can't do it. Now, they have Batista as champion and the man was never in a title feud or match before WM 21. Then the rumours with Cena being sent back down to OVW to polish up his skills kind of goes with this rumour. There has to be something to it.

 

It's not really about fans saying either or here. It's that the wwe haven't done the business they were doing before. People say that the wwe doesn't have competition which is true, but they also have a bar to which they are expected to reach because of past glory. It's really about how the system wcw and the wwf used in the past created money compared to now. In the last two years the only true thing that has been a sure-fire money maker has been WrestleMania. Seriously, if the wwe was under an umbrella like Time Warner the suits would be looking at how things were before the split and how things are now. Seriously, people said guys like Paul Wight and Chris Jericho would be much better off in the wwf, but look at both of their careers. It's not that much different than wcw. Jericho's been job boy on raw(not even a Jericho fan, but this can't be disputed) even though they will proclaim he became undisputed champion under the wwe banner, but really that meant nothing in the grand scheme of things. Benoit got a token reign as champion just as he did in wcw. Look at Booker T's stock for crying out loud. He came in as a main eventer and champion of wcw. Years later he is an afterthought. Really look at the brand split from a perspective of how the wwf would do it to another company.

 

It's the wwe's ego of being the company who knows how to make stars and whatnot is what I'm basing this off and why I think the rumour must have something to it. It seems they have finally noticed that they need new writers and are trying to get some, but Vince would not dare take his daughter off the team. I don't know, but reading that article with the company seeing Batista and Cena as projects is kind of funny. They never had these type of rumours when HHH was first crowned champion in 1999 and didn't put him to the task of not living up to past champions(he wasn't even really that over then either). Champions shouldn't be "projects". That's a flaw right there. The champion is suppose to represent the company. I still don't believe totally that certain guys would be buried without the brand split. They push who they want. They see money in Cena, so they don't bury the guy. They wanted Brock to be the Next Big Thing, so he wasn't buried.

 

However, Orton who they were determined to get over was pushed, but ended up getting buried in some ways. It might have damaged his career for all we know simply because they wanted to push him. Is it Orton's fault or wwe's fault for not knowing the abilities of the talent and what he could and couldn't do? You don't throw the new guys off the cliff without a parachute to save themselves. I'm saying this and I think the brand split is okay, but this stuff can't be denied. The wwe had a better success rate in getting who they wanted over before the brand split. Maybe it's as simple as the new talent just not being that good or any good at all.

[Vyce 0]

If the WWE pushes new guys, everyone bitches they're pushing guys too fast.

 

If WWE pushes old guys, everyone bitches they're not making any new stars.

 

 

 

Make up your fucking minds, people!

Stars should come out of the midcard not straight out of wrestling school.

My thoughts exactly.

 

And I would have to agree with Andrew's "correction" or RJ's statement. And this all fits into what's still the predominant attitude in the WWE today. Look at Christian - it's quite possible that he could become the next hot main event heel for them, if given a decent push. But does any of us really believe that he'll get that push? Odds are predominantly in favor of some green OVW hoss like Matt Morgan or Masters getting a serious push before Xian.

 

It's okay, IMO, to give new guys a push, but NOT a push to the upper card / main event so quickly. At least with Cena, they waited at least two years, with a slow build, before putting him in the main. With others, though, like Orton or Batista, they either push them to the top too quickly (Orton), or put them in the main event without a whole lot of preamble (Batista).

[Promoter 0]

Another thing to really question about the wwe is the hiring of hollywood writers. Are they making bigger stars under this new system before they were doing this approach? I will say Kurt Angle, but he was under Kreski's watch. There is also no ample proof that this hollywood writing actually works. None of these writers have helped make business boom like Vince Russo did. He didn't have any tv writing experience, but the wwe seems bent on only hiring people like that. Russo was a wrestling fan. I know some hate the guy and for good reason, but again look at this how the wwe would have analyzed wcw's business practices. The approach they have taken with hollywood writers has also basically failed.

 

Just as some of the wrestlers they bring straight from wrestling school to the main event is what they do with writers who don't have any damn knowledge about wrestling or the storylines currently running are put into positions to write stuff for the wrestlers. Vince Mcmahon should really sit back and look at the model he is using. Why is it that when they bring back guys like Hogan, Austin, Rock etc ratings pop and people are interested? Yes, they are legends, but there has to be some reason why the fans don't stick around for the current product. The rumours just make me laugh because if it's true Vince is blaming everyone except himself. If wcw was around and kicking his ass like in the mid 90's he would find some way to take the top spot again. There weren't rumours like this when HBK was champion in 1996.

[razazteca 0]

There weren't rumours like this when HBK was champion in 1996.

But back then the only major internet providers were AOL and Prodigy with long distence fees.....now everybody from the college kid to trailor park redneck is hooked up to DSL, Cable or local dial-up. The people who read the rumors on the net has grown at a rate at which nothing can be hidden anymore. Kayfabe is dead: Mr. McMahan declaring WWF as sports entertainment may have killed wrestling's credibility then the internet rumor mill made damn sure that everybody is an insider......then Vince Russo overkilled this concept and now nothing can be taken seriously.

 

It is time for WWE to stop using dead ideas from the glory days and think of something orginal for once. All of the character gimmicks have become stale....it's time to stop pretending to be a movie-of-the-week anti-hero and just be natural. Stop coaching the "talent" to remember the lines, the silly hand gestures, and dances and just be natural.

 

If the wrestling business does indeed run in a cycle then maybe its time to promote it as a sport again instead of being the late night movie. WWE is to wrestling as Circus Solie is......to the circus. When somebody says lets go to the circus you expect to see animals, clowns, etc........not a damn chinese/russian ballet done to new wave music. The same can be said about a wrestling show the fans want to see some kind of athletic exhibition not 2 oiled up body builders re-enact scenes from a John Walters film.

[Promoter 0]

It's true that the internet exploded after HBK was champion, but I don't think the internet today is anywhere close to what it is. Remember 1998 and all those sites from John Petrie-NWWO-Scoops-pwtorch-etc. etc. The internet doesn't really have to be a death knell to wrestling. It can actually work to the company's favour in being more unpredictable.

 

Maybe the wrestling business is still in a long term transition. You stated how Vince killed the credibility and then Russo just put the icing on the cake and it's somehwat true. It seems to me that fans give more respect to guys like Flair and Hogan compared to Cena and HHH because they seem like puppets and did not earn the positions. The wwe has lost the ability to make fans become emotionally involved. Someone stated before that when Vince and Austin shook hands at Mania 17 it just showed fans nothing really matters after all those years against each other. Be it an entertainment or sport approach they do need to make fans feel things matter. All the turns, switches, shock, and whatnot make things seem like they aren't important. An example is Triple H. He is trying to do Flair's record, but are people really going to see him like Flair? There is just something different about the whole dynamic of the business. I think the major difference of love the old school guys like Flair, Hogan, Piper etc get over the new guys is much more ingrained in the innocence gone from the business. There is still inconsistent kayfabe going in, but I wonder how guys like Angle, Cena and whatnot will be seen in the future. If they will ever have the love of the masses as guys like Taker would have. Guys like Austin, HBK, and Taker is indeed the last breed of kayfabe old school.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

They needed to do the brandsplit because they were oversaturating the market. They have RAW, Smackdown, Heat and Velocity. Splitting up into two different brands was the best thing they cuold think of. Also, the fact that WWE is the only game in town is more of a factor than the brand split when you think about how guys are pushed before they're ready. The only way you get better at wrestling is through experience. I think the brand split was a good idea, but I still think it needs to be given time before it's judged as a success or failure.

[Promoter 0]

I know why they did the brand split and in theory it sounded good. I'm not even saying it sucks. What I'm really getting at is this thinking too much in a box? Something might be intrinsically wrong with it, but it's not really being acknowledged for said reason.

 

I don't think this is really a cycle thing. It's the product. Why is it that WrestleMania got a monster buy-rate this year compared to all the other ppv shows? The fans ARE out there. They just aren't interested in the product. It is highly possible the HOF and Piper's Pit was the big draw. I know these guys are legends, but the argument I see sometimes is that wrestling's cyclical, but I think the latest developments show something else. We'll see if RAW's ratings come back stays for long or if it's just a backlash from Mania and the appearances of Hogan and Austin in the last few weeks.

 

I also don't think fans are really buying some of these newer guys in their positions because it seems watered down. The total fanbase is not really smarks, but the general audience can tell the real deal.

 

The mention of 2001 is kind of profound. I just really noticed a lot of my friends who were fanatic about the wwe just simply gave up on them after disappointment after disappointment. They are hardcore fans, but one thing they say about the brand split they don't like is the repeat matches over and over. Business wise we know why they have the brand split, but the bottom line is if it's entertaining to ther masses.

 

Why aren't peopel going to house shows? I think many fans feel the same way and the wwe is not really getting to the heart of the matter. How may times do you hear people complain that the house shows don't matter and that's why they don't attend? Does the wwe LISTEN to this? Or do they write it off as fanatics who are asking for unrealistic stuff to happen? Well, if he had someone breathing down his neck I bet he would find some way to fix it. I just think there must be something wrong with the model and it's hard to see the major problems. I'm saying this because I remember Hulk Hogan saying Vince told him that his time was over in 1992 or so.

 

Yet, Hulk Hogan went on to become one of the greatest heels of all-time about 5 years later. Vince was really determined to have his gimmicks like the Goon thrown on the fans. In wcw, though Bischoff changed things with more real names and less gimmickery. WCW came out of its misery with nitro. It was thought it was suicide to go up against Vince's company and his wrestling philosophy of ppv type main events on free television weekly. In other words, wcw did not think in its own world of a system that was used for years upon years.

 

mean if they had HHH basically given the storyline JBL had, while allowing JBL to develop naturally in the midcard before bringing him straight to the top out of nowhere he might be seen as a better draw. The general masses might simply see him as the guy from APA who got a monster push because the roster is thin on smackdown. Hell, I don't think Cena winning the belt this quick will do him any good, but if he stayed in the midcard this year and then was built up to face HHH at next year's Mania it might have created an atmosphere where the fans demanded it instead of it being forced.

 

Cena is coming off more forced now with the Chain Gang and fan pandering because they wanted him to have a following to crown him champion. This is unlike what they did with HBK, Austin, etc. They guys naturally had their fans demand the championship run.

 

Of course, there is bad to this, but just seeing how things would go the opposite direction without the brand split.

 

Then take into consideration the weekend shows. Who really watches those and why is the company satisfied with those low ratings? There is more than enough time in their programming to give everybody a good amount of time to shine. I don't know maybe the net and the wwe are in a mindset where if it isn't broke don't fix it. The problem with that is I'm pretty sure Vince thought the same thing in the mid 90's. Obviously, he was wrong as wcw helped usher in another boom by changing up until the majority of wrestling fans out there started to pay money for tickets at house shows and buying ppv shows. Vince never dreamt a monday night raw episode would have ever got a rating of over 7.0 in 1995.

 

Is the company really making money in the vien of what they could be making? You got to also take into account that they are the only major wrestling organization in North America. They should be at least doing something similar to the business wcw, ecw, and wwf was doing combined. They are the industry now. It's not really only about them making money too. A lot of fans aren't watching for a good reason and I think the wwe and the net haven't figured it out yet. Mania surprised some net writers because they are also stuck in a box in what works.

 

I'm just trying to garner a good convo going because I've been asked these things by friends who use to watch and honestly I can't answer it. This is not really about being negative or anything, but trying to see what they can do to keep people interested.

[The C Man 0]

Everything is just so rushed. Austin could've been given the title on numerous occasions but they held off until he was white-hot; both HBK and Bret started as tag-team wrestlers then gradually worked their way up to the title; Rocky Miavia had a long route to becoming WWF champion The Rock; Foley started as the deranged mid-carder Mankind, took the fans through all of his different personalities and then finally won the title as a different incarnation of the Mankind persona.

None of them were hot-shotted to the top, they were all allowed time to develop as well as being involved in high-profile feuds/angles. Fans could get to know them over a period of months, or even years.

[Team Angle Pusher 0]

WWE should push new stars, but shouldn't do it right out of the gate, or should push people with :gasp: talent.

 

1. Brock Lesnar, shoved down our throats since day one, couldn't get heat until he destroyed Hogan, Rocky, and 'Taker, and didn't show any talent until nearly a year after he made his debut.

2. JBL, a Tag Team Midcarder who couldn't wrestle worth a damn.

3. John Cena, see JBL minus the Tag Team part.

4. Batista, sorry, but he still sucks in the ring.

5. Randy Orton, someone I can rant about for an hour because he's just that bland/bad/boring.

1. Brock Lesnar: Yea, he was shoved down our throats but we accepted it quickly, we saw his huge talent and if he stayed with the company he really would have been the next big thing in wrestling

 

2. JBL: It was a weird booking move making JBL champion but now look at the internet. Most of us love JBL's influence on Smackdown!. He cuts good promo's, has a good stable and has tons of heat. He made his character work and now to me he's a real main eventer.

 

3. John Cena: He can't work a good match, only with guys like Angle and Benoit. But that doesn't matter at the top. The people love him and he's getting The Rock-like pops. They created a new star.

 

4. Batista: A great example of the crowd suddenly liking a guy, like they now do with Christian. A Heel gets big Face pops and the WWE capatalizes on that and pushes him. Same with The Rock and to an extent John Cena.

 

5. Randy Orton: He had a good IC Title reign and he looked good after Backlash. But he was rushed way too fast into the World Title scene. He got some cheers so the WWE turned him Face and pushed him but it went wrong, it turned out only the girls cheered for Randy. His whole push went wrong but he's now a accepted upper midcarder. Not a star but a solid upper midcarder.

 

=====

 

I think the WWE is finally doing some good things again. They focused much more on the wrestling part this week and everybody loved it. Good storylines, good promo's. The crowd ate Eddie Guerrero's heel turn op and the fans god emotionally involved (someone in this thread said the crowd isn't doing that anymore but it happened). So....things are looking up again maybe.

[tominator89 0]

I know what the reaction will be to this, but I don't think there should have never gotten to the point were splitting WWE into two companies was necessary. Reason being: I don't care how it ended, WCW should still exist to this day.

[Promoter 0]

It's good to just see honest answers here because I have some friends(some smarks and some markish) who have stopped watching passionately for the reasons some have stated here. However, I give all the reasons the internet has for why there is a brand split, but they just take it as making excuses for the product being weaker than years before. The product has been picking up though. I just think that sometimes net fans and writers are stuck in a box with what actually makes people want to watch along with the wwe's preconceived ideas with what fans want to see.

[Promoter 0]

I guess another flaw of this brand split is that the wwe has made it two tv shows in the minds of the corporate tv world instead of two wrestling franchises. RAW and Smackdown may seem like all the same thing. The wwe should have also tried to make it distinguished to the masses as something like the American and National League for MLB.

 

MarvinisaLunatic, in another thread you stated the move of smackdown to fridays is the end of the brand split. I think depending on how they do the draft will be telling. If we see a buch of stars just head over to RAW and smackdown doesn't really get anything back it could be a sign. If UPN doesn't want smackdown next year fall would the product even get a good deal again in terms of a channel that isn't lame? USA will supposedly spend over 8 million on RAW advertising. Will they do this for smackdown especially if RAW just stays at the same level it is now(it seems Vince thinks ratings should go up on USA again).

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

I cant see USA going for 2 wrestling shows. I know they wont put it on Friday if they do given their strong original shows on Friday Night.

 

I doubt Vince would be able to convince anyone to pick up Smackdown, cable or network.

 

If Smackdown isn't on tv, it almost has to be the end of the brand extension UNLESS ...Vince is desperate enough to keep the brand split idea alive that he puts Smackdown on WWE 24/7, but that would be even more of a death sentence than UPN moving it to Friday because I doubt even 1/1,000th of the people that can get UPN get WWE 24/7, even a year from now.

 

And I would reiterate as was said in the UPN thread that the WWE probably has no say in the ultimate fate of Smackdown , given that the friday night time slot will almost surely mean lower ratings and give UPN a good excuse to just cut it regardless. Vince would almost have to convince someone to pick up the show now while the ratings are still good on a difficult night, but I dont think its going to matter.

The writing is on the wall, and to me it seems that Smackdown will just become a lame duck show towards the start of next year, as I would assume UPN and USA would have to make it clear what they intend to do by then, and with the exception of a few people (Cena/Eddy/JBL/Mysterio/Big Show/Booker T?/Taker?/Angle?) most of the Smackdown talent will probably be the ones gettin the axe.

 

Chances are , next years "draft" will be more like a contraction draft where wrestlers a picked from both shows to stay on RAW and the rest are left out in the cold...

[Guest Gary Busey]

Promotor, very good thoughts.

 

I've thought for a long time that Vince and his circle are just too stuck in their ways. But of course they don't listen to outside ideas. He's been in the business his whole life, run the WWE for 20 years and had amazing successes beyond all belief. In his mind, and in the minds of those in the company, why would he want to listen to a bunch of kids who he thinks don't understand the business when business is kinda down? "I'm Vince McMahan, damnit! I made Hulk Hogan and Stone Cold, and I could do it again!"

 

Put yourself in his shoes. Over a 20 year period, you've done very well for yourself and built a billion dollar empire. Do you think you'd listen to a bunch of nobodies and completely change things around?

 

That's the problem, though, he needs to reinvent the company again, but he just doesn't see it. Why have 11 segments every show? Why have a heel/face announce team? Why have traditional backstage interviews? Why have the stages setup like they do? They've been stuck doing the same thing every week, without a break, for about five years. They can't see their previous successes, or think outside of the box, because I bet they don't have time in their schedules. I bet everybody in the company has a routine they go through, with such little time for new thought.

 

I bet the writers with no wrestling knowledge don't even have time to go back and watch old WCW, WWE and ECW footage to get ideas on how storylines work. I've thought for a long time that they could recycle old storylines and just change some details, and they'd be gold. They'd learn how wrestling storylines work and put on some good shows. Then they could come up with some new ideas.

 

What Vince needs to do is find someone, or a couple people, and take a step back and reexamine what they are doing from the ground up. That's what happened with the Attitude era to a degree. Vince realized he was in trouble, found some people with new ideas (Shane, Russo, etc), and they reinvented the company from the ground up.

[what 0]

I cant see USA going for 2 wrestling shows. I know they wont put it on Friday if they do given their strong original shows on Friday Night.

 

I doubt Vince would be able to convince anyone to pick up Smackdown, cable or network.

 

If Smackdown isn't on tv, it almost has to be the end of the brand extension UNLESS ...Vince is desperate enough to keep the brand split idea alive that he puts Smackdown on WWE 24/7, but that would be even more of a death sentence than UPN moving it to Friday because I doubt even 1/1,000th of the people that can get UPN get WWE 24/7, even a year from now.

 

And I would reiterate as was said in the UPN thread that the WWE probably has no say in the ultimate fate of Smackdown , given that the friday night time slot will almost surely mean lower ratings and give UPN a good excuse to just cut it regardless. Vince would almost have to convince someone to pick up the show now while the ratings are still good on a difficult night, but I dont think its going to matter.

The writing is on the wall, and to me it seems that Smackdown will just become a lame duck show towards the start of next year, as I would assume UPN and USA would have to make it clear what they intend to do by then, and with the exception of a few people (Cena/Eddy/JBL/Mysterio/Big Show/Booker T?/Taker?/Angle?) most of the Smackdown talent will probably be the ones gettin the axe.

 

Chances are , next years "draft" will be more like a contraction draft where wrestlers a picked from both shows to stay on RAW and the rest are left out in the cold...

Some network would want Smackdown. With the ratings it gets, there will be takers.