Intrigued

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

It's thinking out loud on my behalf, but when did tapping out officially replace a referee simply calling for the bell on behalf of the wrestler?

 

I always remember, in my mark days, a referee attending to a wrestler in say, the Sharpshooter. And he would just call for the bell if wrestler b called it quits.

 

I recall watching Bret Hart tap on Raw in 97 to the anklelock, while a referee was knocked out, which was the first tap out I ever saw outside of UFC. I honestly can't remember the last time I saw the scenario I described above, as opposed to the tap out.

 

Anyone fill me in?

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

How so? No one really tapped there, nor do I recall anyone being asked or encouraged to tap out.

 

But I'm drunk, too.

[cawthon777 0]

Wrestlemania 13 was the point where it became a part of WWF/E. The hype surounding the Bret/Austin match with Shamrock refereeing was the catalyst for it becoming accepted as a form of submission.

I don't really think Mania 13 had anything to do with it. Someone had to vocalize their submission, they couldn't just tap out.

 

I believe the tap outs started in WCW maybe 6 months or so prior to Ken Shamrock coming to the WWF. But Shamrock and the ankle lock further popularized it.

[Art Sandusky 0]

What was the deal with Steven Richards having the arm drop submission off of a full nelson last night? Has that been done before?

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

What was the deal with Steven Richards having the arm drop submission off of a full nelson last night? Has that been done before?

I always thought it had to be 3 arm drops.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

It is supposed to be three arm drops, but since these days matches need to be over in 3 minutes or less, they don't have that kind of time.

 

They used to use that spot a fair bit, mostly for sleepers, but the only time I can recall someone winning with it was HHH getting a fall over the Rock in their Iron Man.

[JST 0]

Drama building.

 

Did you REALLY expect Stevie to pull off the upset last monday night?

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

They used to use that spot a fair bit, mostly for sleepers, but the only time I can recall someone winning with it was HHH getting a fall over the Rock in their Iron Man.

 

Money Inc won their second tag titles that way with a Million Dollar Dream on Earthquake. Also, I think that is how Roddy Piper won his IC Title too. Piper also used it to put out Hogan in the main event of Starrcade 96.

 

It used to happen more often than you think. Just not too often in high-profile matches.

[iggymcfly 0]

The worst part was that they called for a submission in the Richards/Masters match after one arm drop, but then in the main event, Batista dropped his arm twice in Edge's sleeper, and they just raised it to see if it would drop a third time.

 

You'd think they could be at least a little bit consistent.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I remember watching at the time, being a UFC fan, and accrediting Shamrock with bringing about the tap out in the WWE. Nothing concrete here, just something I remember.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

Yeah, tap-outs in the fed seemed to come along right around the same time that Shamrock did. At least, that's what I recall.

[Jericholic82 0]

I guess the ref at Raw thought stevie was out of it and just called for the bell. He has done that a lot in masters' matches.

[Shooting Star 0]

Last time I remember the arm drop thing getting a submission in a non ironman match is Superbral 9 Scott steiner vs DDP

[The Dames 0]

I'm pretty sure that Shamrock was the one that popularized tapping out into the pro wrestling culture when he was pushed as the Most Dangerous Man. The first time I remember anyone actually tapping out to the Sharpshooter was when Bret Hart put it on Scott Hall in WCW in his intro at Starrcade if I'm not mistaken. Prior to that, everyone just verbally submitted and the tap out was pretty much an anklelock exclusive for a bit.

 

Dames

[Lil' Bitch 0]

And therefore tapping out replaced giving up.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

*** WCW Monday Nitro (1-Hour Broadcast)

05-12-97

- Randy Savage (now off crutches) talks trash on Dallas Page (who comes out on crutches), as Eric Bischoff anounced that Sting called him and they'll talk tonight.

1. WCW Television Champion Ultimo Dragon defeated Juventud Guerrera via submission with the Dragon Sleeper. After the match, Steven Regal (dropping the "Lord" gimmick) announces he'll "go back to his roots" and win back the WCW Television Title at Slamboree.

 

- Guerrera "tapped out".

 

4. Hugh Morrus & Konnan defeated Ice Train & Alex Wright when Konnan made Ice Train submit to the "Tequila Sunrise" after Alex Wright abandoned his partner.

- Wright officially turned heel. Train "tapped out".

[Guest Ether]

I seem to recall it starting in ECW in 1996, mainly with Taz and his "Tazmission."

[Guest OSIcon]

In late 1996 and 1997, wrestlers began "tapping out" to submission moves in WCW. A lot more guys were using submission finishers on a regular basis then previously. I think it started mainly in the cruiserweight division with wrestlers tapping out to the Dragon Sleeper (Ultimo Dragon), Texas Cloverleaf (Malenko), ect. Guys like Konnan and Regal also began getting tap out victories around that time and even with those guys, it was still the cruiserweights doing the "tapping" early on. It kind of spread from there to the point where we are today with basically all submission wins being determined by someone "tapping out" rather than verbally quitting.

 

No WCW Main Eventers used submission finishers (Sting did but didn't wrestle until Starrcade '97 obviously) so it probably wasn't noticed that much in WCW. I didn't really see much WWF from that time period, but Shamrock having people tap out seems right. Since he was a higher profile wrestler than most with submission finishers in WCW, I could see that more people noticed when he did it. However, on a national scale, it was a movement that for all intents and purposes began in WCW.

[death_by_burrito 0]

Last time I remember the arm drop thing getting a submission in a non ironman match is Superbral 9 Scott steiner vs DDP

I remember a year or so back HHH was using the sleeper as a finisher in a few matches and won with the arm drop thing. I remember he beat Jeff Hardy like that once, but I can't remember who else.

[Jericholic82 0]

Last time I remember the arm drop thing getting a submission in a non ironman match is Superbral 9 Scott steiner vs DDP

I remember a year or so back HHH was using the sleeper as a finisher in a few matches and won with the arm drop thing. I remember he beat Jeff Hardy like that once, but I can't remember who else.

I belive he beat spike dudley and hurricane with it too. That was in 2003.

 

 

Why is tapping worse that verbally submitting? It's equally embarrasing.

[Shooting Star 0]

It's the same to me...when you can't keep taking the pain you desperately tap out or scream and give up.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

Why is tapping worse that verbally submitting? It's equally embarrasing.

 

Slapping your hand on the mat is a bit more refined then yelling "OH GOOD GOD YOU'RE KILLING ME, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, I GIVE UP!!!"

 

It's also a safer way to submit (though this doesn't often come up in the fed) as you're pretty much guaranteed to have at least one free hand at any given point in a fight. But, if someone is choking you out, then your ability to verbally submit may be a bit....lacking.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

No WCW Main Eventers used submission finishers

 

Luger did. He won the World Title with the Torture Rack in August 1997.

 

Tapping out was likely brought in because it gives the audience something to look out for during a submission hold. In the old days, it was just the ref that made the decision most of the time (occasionally you would see the victim nod or something). When they started encouraging more crowd participation in 1996-97, it was a natural transition.

[Toxxic 0]

Last time I remember the three arm drops used to win a high-profile match was Lesnar over Hogan when Hogan's arm dropped three times in the bearhug.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I'm pretty sure that Shamrock was the one that popularized tapping out into the pro wrestling culture when he was pushed as the Most Dangerous Man. The first time I remember anyone actually tapping out to the Sharpshooter was when Bret Hart put it on Scott Hall in WCW in his intro at Starrcade if I'm not mistaken. Prior to that, everyone just verbally submitted and the tap out was pretty much an anklelock exclusive for a bit.

 

Dames

Give that man a cheroot.

 

Tapping out was introduced both due to the popularity of the UFC, and because the gesture itself was a more animated way of giving up, with tapping out clearly indicating a submission.

 

In kayfabe, verbal quitting to the ref was more ambiguous, and could lead to the misinterpretation of any sound made by the wrestler. The tapping out was designed to prevent any errors when it came to deciding if a wrestler had indeed submitted.

[Steve J. Rogers 0]

I'm pretty sure that Shamrock was the one that popularized tapping out into the pro wrestling culture when he was pushed as the Most Dangerous Man.  The first time I remember anyone actually tapping out to the Sharpshooter was when Bret Hart put it on Scott Hall in WCW in his intro at Starrcade if I'm not mistaken.  Prior to that, everyone just verbally submitted and the tap out was pretty much an anklelock exclusive for a bit.

 

Dames

Give that man a cheroot.

 

Tapping out was introduced both due to the popularity of the UFC, and because the gesture itself was a more animated way of giving up, with tapping out clearly indicating a submission.

 

In kayfabe, verbal quitting to the ref was more ambiguous, and could lead to the misinterpretation of any sound made by the wrestler. The tapping out was designed to prevent any errors when it came to deciding if a wrestler had indeed submitted.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The thing I question though is, what if in the process of moving into a set position, the prone wrestler starts to do tapping motions lightly, in plain view of the ref. Does the ref choose to ignore blantant "tapping" as if it never happened?

 

To back this up, I'm sure "as it happened" alot of "live PBP reveiwers" on the net thought they saw Bret actually "tap" at SS 97 due to Hebner's ringing the bell Course thats the mind playing tricks on you but it really could happen

 

Steve

Edited June 3, 2005 by Steve J. Rogers

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

It's accepted, in kayfabe, that when a wrestler taps out he's going to tap out in a certain manner, usually furiously on the mat like Shawn did at WM XXI. Therefore, a referee, in kayfabe, wouldn't mistake a wrestler moving his hands for an actual tap out.

 

For a UFC comparison, check out the ending moments of Couture v Ortiz from UFC 44, when Couture is spanking Ortiz. It looks like a tap out, but the referee knew enough to realise that it wasn't an actual tap out.

[Art Sandusky 0]

What was the deal with Steven Richards having the arm drop submission off of a full nelson last night? Has that been done before?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

By this, I meant the arm dropping off of a full nelson, not the actual method of submission.

[BUTT 0]

I prefer tapping to vocalizing submission because it is more dramatic and has more visual impact. I have always preferred for big matches, particularly those which faces win, to end with a pinfall, because it makes for a more dramatic ending, especially when the referee hits the three-count. When a wrestler taps, at least there is more visual impact in seeing them frantically tapping the mat than there is in seeing the ref suddenly turn to the timekeeper and signal for the bell.

[The Dames 0]

I don't like the way the tap looks to old school submission holds like the figure four or the Sharpshooter. It doesn't give the same emotional vibe to me than hearing the man scream "YES! YES!" and shaking his head in a verbal submission.

 

Dames