What Makes a Wrestling Star

[RedJed 0]

I just read this from the new Torch this week and had to post it - just too funny -- from the latest Torch Talk with Nash this issue...

 

Keller: Did you coin the term Vanilla Midgets?

 

Nash: (pause) I may have. (laughs)

 

Keller: When you used that term in reference to Chris Benoit, Dean Malenko, Eddie Guerrero, and other smaller wrestlers, what was the context of that? Any regrets?

 

Nash: It was one of those deals where I loved what they did, but at the same time, it's like watching a porno with a guy with a four inch c--k. It doesn't matter how he moves. I'm a big guy, I want to watch big guys wrestle. That's just me. I didn't appreciate what they did, but at the same time when I took over the book and Eric told me, "I'm paying these guys 500, 600 thousand dollars a year, you have to get them over," I said, "F---, because you did bad deals with people, don't expect me to get people over. F---, it's going to be hard. When a guy looks like your neighborhood gardener on the gas, it's tough. If a five-foot-seven guy walks through the airport, it's not gonna be... I'm very surprised Vince (McMahon) did that (signed and pushed them). Vince was never that guy. Vince was always, like, "When he walks through the airport, he's got to turn heads." He wanted that bigger than life guy.

 

Keller: Yet you respect Rey Mysterio and what he contributed to Nitro.

 

Nash: That was a different thing. To me, right now, if I was booking New York, Rey would be my champion.

 

Keller: And it might happen.

 

Nash: It should! Benoit is probably, to me, as good a worker, and so is Eddie, but they don't have that - if I'm sitting at home - me and Scott (Hall) used to always say to be over in this business, the girl's got to want to f--- you and the guy's got to wanna be ya'. Girls don't wanna f--- Benoit. Girls I don't think wanna f - -- Eddie. Girls wanna f--- Rey, guys want to be Rey. That's what gets over in this business. Guys want to f---in ' be Batista? F--- yeah. Do girls want to f--- Batista? Yeah. Do guys want to be Orton? Yeah. Do girls want to f--- Orton? Yeah. There's a real intangible in this business and that's it.

 

Keller: And there are big guys, 6-5, 6-8, with muscles and a good look who don't fit that description that Rey does.

 

Nash: Right.

 

Keller: So the formula, as much a size is and always has been and always will be a factor, it's the be all, end all.

 

Nash: It is not. Because you have to have "it." Michaels has it. Girls want to f--- him, guys want to be him. He's a 6-1, 219 pound champion in world of 300 pounders. The thing is, his physical attributes, his work was so far above - but he was still 6-1, 219. I mean, you're a strong safety in the NFL. I mean, you're not a small guy. Rey is, like, an exception to the rule. But I watched Rey work and I put Rey over because I wanted everybody in the locker room to know, guess what guys, everybody does jobs here. The biggest guy is putting the smallest guy over because guess what, he has enough offense to do it. And I'll tell you what, we blew the roof off that place that night in Sacramento. The only thing in retrospect I should have done is I should have been the last one he got to. I should have had him be the giant killer the opposite way - have him beat three or four of the bigger guys - (Scott) Norton types - and then go to a PPV and beat me. That was the mistake I made because I had no idea how over he really was. New York can learn by that. My mistake was I didn't realize how over the guy could be.

 

--------------

 

That's sure a different reasoning why a worker is over or not, eh?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

It's like a bullshit snowstorm. Just wall to wall, floor to floor bullshit.

 

Please, Mr Nash, as the lowest drawing WWF Champion of all time, and one of the main reasons WCW died, give us more pearls of wisdom as only you can provide.

[Prophet of Mike Zagurski 0]

Why is Rey different than Benoit? Hey Nash, maybe you should have put Goldberg over or you should have told Hogan to put over Sting.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

It was one of those deals where I loved what they did, but at the same time, it's like watching a porno with a guy with a four inch c--k. It doesn't matter how he moves. I'm a big guy, I want to watch big guys wrestle. That's just me.

 

I didn’t know Nash paid that much attention to dicks while watching porn. He must like a different genre of porn than me I guess, but if Big Dicks And Hairy Asses #14 is his cup of tea, more power to him.

 

I didn't appreciate what they did, but at the same time when I took over the book and Eric told me, "I'm paying these guys 500, 600 thousand dollars a year, you have to get them over," I said, "F---, because you did bad deals with people, don't expect me to get people over. F---, it's going to be hard.

 

It’s going to be hard to get people over that you, not only don’t appreciate a lick, but have already stated you can’t get over. As booker, it’s your job to get them over, and if you can’t, and you know you can’t, then get the fuck out of the way and let someone else who can actually book take charge.

 

When a guy looks like your neighborhood gardener on the gas, it's tough.

 

If it’s tough, then work hard. Try it for once, Nash. That is, if you can avoid tearing a muscle.

 

I'm very surprised Vince (McMahon) did that (signed and pushed them). Vince was never that guy. Vince was always, like, "When he walks through the airport, he's got to turn heads." He wanted that bigger than life guy.

 

Maybe Vince has a better eye for talent than you. Then again, he made you WWF Champion for a year, and look how you turned out.

 

As for bigger than life guys, there is absolutely a place for them on the card, but you can’t have the whole roster filled with them, or none of them will get over a tenth of what they could by being the only one.

 

Benoit is probably, to me, as good a worker, and so is Eddie, but they don't have that - if I'm sitting at home - me and Scott (Hall) used to always say to be over in this business, the girl's got to want to f--- you and the guy's got to wanna be ya'.

 

That’s just one aspect of someone getting over, and just because they don’t fit in with your extremely narrow definition of who does or doesn’t have it, it doesn’t mean they can’t get over.

 

Girls don't wanna f--- Benoit. Girls I don't think wanna f - -- Eddie.

 

Girls who like it rough and ready want to fuck Benoit. Girls who like the slick charm of a stereotypical Latino definitely want to fuck Eddie.

 

Keller: So the formula, as much a size is and always has been and always will be a factor, it's the be all, end all.

 

Nash: It is not. Because you have to have "it."

 

You didn’t have “it” when put out on your own. You didn’t draw a dime without people who did have “it” to leech off of.

 

Rey is, like, an exception to the rule. But I watched Rey work and I put Rey over

 

You didn’t put Rey over a lick you sack of shit. You tossed him around like a dummy and did a banana peel job to him. You didn’t put him over, and it’s laughable that you expect anyone, at least people with a clue, to buy this crap.

 

The only thing in retrospect I should have done is I should have been the last one he got to. I should have had him be the giant killer the opposite way - have him beat three or four of the bigger guys - (Scott) Norton types - and then go to a PPV and beat me. That was the mistake I made because I had no idea how over he really was. New York can learn by that. My mistake was I didn't realize how over the guy could be.

 

What you should have done was done a real job and really put him over, and then had the lugs you had job to him after you do the same thing. The mistake you made was thinking you had a clue about how to book. And if someone has to learn from you, then they’re really in trouble.

[Guest jm29195]

Just out of interest, I was wondering if anyone has access to the last 3 parts of the Nash interview, we had the other 3 bits posted up here and it was pretty interesting stuff, and I'd really appreciate it if someone could post the conclusion!

[PLAGIARISM! 0]

The problem, apart from him being a twat, is that he assumes everyone is a casual or new fan. If you just apply this argument to them, it's *slightly* less idiotic.

[iliketurtles 0]

If anyone can post the whole Nash interview, it would greatly be appreciated.

[Guest Brian]

Do they want to fuck Rey because of the mask? The intrigue? They should just go watch a Great Sasuke porno.

[Placebo Effect 0]

I have a desenting opinion from all of you from the looks of it.

 

At no point in Benoit or Guerrero's WCW career did they deserve to be main event level. Prior to the juicing and (in Eddie's case) slight makeover, they both did not come close to looking like stars. These days, I think Guerrero deserves to be on top.

 

Benoit deserves to be at the top, but I'll never believe him to be marketable as a champion.

[RedJed 0]

Here is the whole interview from this week....

 

Torch Talk with Kevin Nash, pt. 9

Originally Published: June 4, 2005

Torch Newsletter #864

 

In the following ninth installment of a six-hour "Torch Talk" conducted on March 24, Nash talks about Eric Bischoff and the job pressure he faced in WCW, how he believes Bischoff feels about his run in WCW in retrospect and how he handles being part of WWE today, how Vince Russo and Ed Ferrara were sabotaged from the beginning when they arrived in WCW, his admiration for the pressure Vince McMahon is under and the work ethic he puts forth year after year, how important he believes size is in terms of wrestlers' drawing power, his coining the term Vanilla Midgets, and why he'd promote Rey Mysterio as a World Champion in WWE if he had the power right now.

 

Wade Keller: Do you think in Eric Bischoff's mind that his accomplishments currently outweigh the sense of defeat, or do you think he is haunted and always will be by his sense of defeat no matter what he accomplished?

 

Kevin Nash: I think he's haunted by his defeat. I don't think he realizes what he's done. To a degree, I think, when he got to New York (WWE) and became a part of New York and saw the f---in' machine - if you've ever been to the log cabin, the place in Smyrna that was WCW headquarters - you'd walk in there and you couldn't find an IQ above 30. Not to be sh--y, but it wasn't like you had a marketing department. You had a guy who studied marketing in high school (laughs).

 

Keller: So Eric might have felt better about things once he saw first-hand what he had gone up against?

 

Nash: I think once he got to New York and realized the machine he actually beat, I think that helped.

 

Keller: Eric puts up a brave front during interviews. He has his three reasons or whatever for why WCW went out of business and why it wasn't his fault or in his control, and he talks about what he did accomplish. He says things to indicate to an average person listening that he's at peace with himself. But deep down there must be a feeling of lost opportunity, right?

 

Nash: I know that once he came there and saw what he was against, he went "Wow!"

 

Keller: Do you think he's content in the role he's in now? Or does it hurt him to have once been in control and now just be a talent who isn't even consulted?

 

Nash: Knowing him the way I know him, he's happy doing his own thing, riding his bike. I'm sure that he liked the ride, but he likes his family times, too. I'm sure he enjoys being able to perform, do what's expected of him, and be off for five days.

 

Keller: Was there ever a point where you lost respect for Eric seeing how he handled the pressure?

 

Nash: Never.

 

Keller: Were there times you ever wanted to grab him and shake him?

 

Nash: No, because there were so many snipers. It was like trying to go to the grocery store in Bosnia in '93. I mean, there were so many snipers It was paranoia, but it was warranted. Everybody was out to kill him.

 

Keller: If there was no recreational drug use at all among anybody in WCW during the best year or two period, do you think things would have been better off in that things would have lasted longer? In certain pockets and certain areas, did drug use contribute to the spin out of control?

 

Nash: If it wouldn't have been for the recreational drug use, the thing probably would have collapsed after three weeks (laughs). I mean, it was sex, drugs, and rock and roll. That's part of what made it what it was. There was a reckless abandon, showing up on Monday TV with one match done at 7 o'clock and people going, "Oh, f---, we're live in an hour!"

 

Keller: And two hundred wrestlers flown in and you're going to use 14.

 

Nash: It was crazy. The thing was, of those 200 wrestlers who got called in, and the 14 that were used, all of them were at the Marriott bar that night (laughs). It was a party. It was what it was. It was like when I worked at the Cheetah. It was like working a strip joint. I can't wait to get this three hour show over so we can go to the party.

 

Keller: Like any good drug trip, you're going to have the high and then the inevitable crash. Do you think there was an element of crashing from living that lifestyle?

 

Nash: I think so. How long could a rock tour last? After about two years, by that time it's "Behind the Music" and everybody hates everybody. And that's what happened. It was kind of the whole deal like "Behind the Music."

 

Keller: Do you think Eric handled the pressure of the job well all of the time?

 

Nash: I thought so.

 

Keller: Even when he was throwing coffee at Eddie (Guerrero)?

 

Nash: Eric's a hot-head. Eric's the kind of guy who will call you a mother f---er and Eric will say, "You're a prick and I want to kill you," and then that night he'll drink a beer with you and he's over it. I like that. I like somebody who wears their emotions on their sleeve and can get it out and at the same time, can three hours later say, "You know what, f---, I was kind of a dick to you, sorry." At the same time, if he goes off on you and you were wrong, he doesn't apologize, he'll stay on you. Then you should apologize and say you were wrong. That was a high pressure position Eric was in, though. It's understandable that he went off at times. One thing I've always said that amazes me is I know that I'm responsible in my life for probably 20 people at various times, while Vince is responsible for probably 400 people's lives - and that's on a day in, day out basis. When you get older and you get more mature and you sit back and look at it, I said to myself, I don't understand how the man does it. I don't understand how he puts in the 16 hours. I don't understand how he has the drive that he does on a day in and day out basis to make that many people's lives. He's responsible for a large number of people's well-being.

 

Keller: Is that a big weight on Vince's shoulders, or is that just who he is?

 

Nash: You know what, people say they let this guy go and that guy go and that guy go. They talk about the cuts at WWE. They think that doesn't go through Vince. Vince doesn't hire anybody that he doesn't have somewhat of a relationship with. So everybody who gets cut, Vince has had a relationship with at some point. Vince is the captain of the team, so it's just like somebody from the team got let go. I know how personally Vince takes that. He takes that as defeat. Financially that means the company wasn't doing well enough to keep those people on. God, that kind of pressure on a day in, day out basis, f---, it's another one of those things that increases your respect for what you have for the man. He is such The Man. He is The Man. He is able to handle that kind of responsibility and that much stress.

 

Keller: What's the one aspect about him that if it were changed, it would make his life better. False pride? Not being good at taking criticism? Taking too much criticism? Having too many yes men around him? What's something about him that might slow down or hinder his success?

 

Nash: The thing about the yes-men is that when we were there as the Clique and we talked to Vince, he was always wide open for ideas. If somebody comes up to you and all they ever say is how pretty you are or how handsome you are, if that's all they ever say, that's who that person is.

 

Keller: There are people who are scared to make too many suggestions outside of Vince's vision because Vince does have a certain road he drives on, and he wants you to make that drive smooth.

 

Nash: Yes. But I've never been around Vince and seen him where he fired somebody for that. (Vince) Russo bumped heads with him. Russo said, "No, that's not the way, Vince." I mean, Russo will say he basically booked everything. I know better. Russo gave him an idea and Vince took it and made it his. Russo's got a strong personality. Vince (McMahon) is Vince, and there's no coincidence that they're both named Vince. That's how the play's supposed to play out Shakespearean-wise. Those guys, they had a synergy that was f---in' beautiful, from the placing of the Sable spot with the spike, they knew how to do it. Wrestling was doing an 11 back then. Monday Night Football was thinking of going on Thursdays (laughs). I mean, you think back about that and you go, I don't care what you say, if you were part of that machine at that time, you have been successful in life.

 

Keller: How much was Ed Ferrara in that mix?

 

Nash: Ed's great! Ed always gave the comedy aspect.

 

Keller: There was a synergy with Russo and Ferrara working together where they filled in each other's weaknessees and each had different strengths.

 

Nash: Absolutely. That was a great group. They brought them to WCW, but they came in there and then J.J. (Dillon) and all those guys started chopping their heads off the minute they came in. That old-school mentality kicked in. They immediately separated me from the booking team so they could chop their heads off.

 

Keller: Do you think that Russo and Ferrara got a fair chance in WCW, or do you think there were some weaknesses that were exposed in WCW that were exposed outside of Vince McMahon's leadership?

 

Nash: Oh, God, not a chance. They were in the back of the car at Daily Plaza when they walked through the door. The plan was in motion to be sure they did not succeed. They were brought in on a whim and they were never given a chance; right away they were shot down. The old school Florida booking team went to work on them.

 

Keller: Do you think Russo and Ferrara could have been successful in WCW without Vince McMahon as part of that equation to keep their blob of ideas going in a certain direction?

 

Nash: I think no. I think the thing that made them successful is a lot of the times they go too far out, and Vince (McMahon) always had the capability to say (imitating Vince McMahon), "Ahh, that just doesn't make sense. That's bullsh--." It isn't like Vince hasn't drawn money. That's the one thing about Vince. He's been there before, so he knows. He can see when something's not going to draw money.

 

Keller: It probably makes a difference for Russo and Ferrara when they're writing to please Vince McMahon versus "I want to establish my own identity as a writer." When you're writing to please Vince, you're to a certain extent within a formula that has worked for years. When you become an artist writing for your own vision without McMahon to rein you in, you're going to make mistakes.

 

Nash: Absolutely. Absolutely.

 

Keller: Did you coin the term Vanilla Midgets?

 

Nash: (pause) I may have. (laughs)

 

Keller: When you used that term in reference to Chris Benoit, Dean Malenko, Eddie Guerrero, and other smaller wrestlers, what was the context of that? Any regrets?

 

Nash: It was one of those deals where I loved what they did, but at the same time, it's like watching a porno with a guy with a four inch c--k. It doesn't matter how he moves. I'm a big guy, I want to watch big guys wrestle. That's just me. I didn't appreciate what they did, but at the same time when I took over the book and Eric told me, "I'm paying these guys 500, 600 thousand dollars a year, you have to get them over," I said, "F---, because you did bad deals with people, don't expect me to get people over. F---, it's going to be hard. When a guy looks like your neighborhood gardener on the gas, it's tough. If a five-foot-seven guy walks through the airport, it's not gonna be... I'm very surprised Vince (McMahon) did that (signed and pushed them). Vince was never that guy. Vince was always, like, "When he walks through the airport, he's got to turn heads." He wanted that bigger than life guy.

 

Keller: Yet you respect Rey Mysterio and what he contributed to Nitro.

 

Nash: That was a different thing. To me, right now, if I was booking New York, Rey would be my champion.

 

Keller: And it might happen.

 

Nash: It should! Benoit is probably, to me, as good a worker, and so is Eddie, but they don't have that - if I'm sitting at home - me and Scott (Hall) used to always say to be over in this business, the girl's got to want to f--- you and the guy's got to wanna be ya'. Girls don't wanna f--- Benoit. Girls I don't think wanna f - -- Eddie. Girls wanna f--- Rey, guys want to be Rey. That's what gets over in this business. Guys want to f---in ' be Batista? F--- yeah. Do girls want to f--- Batista? Yeah. Do guys want to be Orton? Yeah. Do girls want to f--- Orton? Yeah. There's a real intangible in this business and that's it.

 

Keller: And there are big guys, 6-5, 6-8, with muscles and a good look who don't fit that description that Rey does.

 

Nash: Right.

 

Keller: So the formula, as much a size is and always has been and always will be a factor, it's the be all, end all.

 

Nash: It is not. Because you have to have "it." Michaels has it. Girls want to f--- him, guys want to be him. He's a 6-1, 219 pound champion in world of 300 pounders. The thing is, his physical attributes, his work was so far above - but he was still 6-1, 219. I mean, you're a strong safety in the NFL. I mean, you're not a small guy. Rey is, like, an exception to the rule. But I watched Rey work and I put Rey over because I wanted everybody in the locker room to know, guess what guys, everybody does jobs here. The biggest guy is putting the smallest guy over because guess what, he has enough offense to do it. And I'll tell you what, we blew the roof off that place that night in Sacramento. The only thing in retrospect I should have done is I should have been the last one he got to. I should have had him be the giant killer the opposite way - have him beat three or four of the bigger guys - (Scott) Norton types - and then go to a PPV and beat me. That was the mistake I made because I had no idea how over he really was. New York can learn by that. My mistake was I didn't realize how over the guy could be.

 

Next week, he talks about the lack of fresh talent being rotated into WCW at a time when the WWF was creating new stars during the Monday Night War.

 

The Nash interview, up until this week, was pretty solid and I actually agreed with alot of Nash's comments, but this shit he said about how you have "it" or not is fucking bullshit. It's clear he didn't learn from the past. I wonder if he ever even bothered to read Death of WCW?

[iliketurtles 0]

Thanks man. If you could post the whole thing, I'd love you forever.

 

Nash is a great read.

[Guest Brian]

More like an interesting read.

 

 

 

 

 

See, I'm go bitter I don't use great to describe anything Nash does.

[Betty Houle 0]

Nash makes a lot of sense to me. I've read this interview in it's entirety and agreed with about 80 percent of it. I found myself agreeing with a lot of his comments.

 

Then again, I thought Russo made some sense that time he reviewed RAW a year or two back.

 

And I find myself disagreeing with 80 percent of what HTQ says.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I would ask you to explain how and why you disagree with what I've said, but after reading your posts, I've found that I'm allergic to drivel, so I've had to put you on ignore.

[CanadianChick 0]

That whole "Girls want to fuck Rey" is just not true. Girls want to cuddle him and pitch his cheek, because he's cute. It's like saying that Shannon Moore should be on top because girls want to 'fuck' him. There's a big difference between girls going "Yeah, I'd hit it." and "Aw, he's adorable!". Rey is definately in the latter catergory.

 

Regardless of all that, that's not a good theory at all. Sure, with some people it works (The Rock is a GREAT example), but for others (Austin?), not so much.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

That Hogan fella must've been lusted at by the ladies if he drew that much.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

I wanted to be just like Yokozuna. Those geisha girls must have had the hots for him.

[CanadianChick 0]

That Hogan fella must've been lusted at by the ladies if he drew that much.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Maybe the girls could relate to him.

 

"YES! A man who finally understands my need to constantly sun tan!"

[Guest Brian]

That Hogan fella must've been lusted at by the ladies if he drew that much.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Maybe the girls could relate to him.

 

"YES! A man who finally understands my need to constantly sun tan!"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

"And the fact that I don't have a dick."

[Betty Houle 0]

I would ask you to explain how and why you disagree with what I've said, but after reading your posts, I've found that I'm allergic to drivel, so I've had to put you on ignore.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Makes you wonder why you'd bother to post this then!

[Guest Dumb Monkey]

HTQ just tore Kevin Nash a new asshole with his comments.

 

Please... who in their right mind wants to be RANDY ORTON? The guy is such a fucking pansy, most guys probably just want to beat him up for being such a faggot. Last I checked, girls would rather fuck someone like Eddie Guerrero than a roid monkey with vains popping out of every muscle like Batista.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

Hey, I love me some Eddie, but to say Eddie's not on the juice is ridiculous. Did you see him on SD this week?