The dems are losing.

[Special K 0]

The Democratic party used to have a few awesome civil rights movements that were totally just. Now the Dem party is reaching for straws. Basically, because every goal they wished to achieve has happened.

 

Let me say I consider myself socially liberal. I'm a libertarian. I'm in favour of gay marriage and... well that's all the Dem party can erect a totem to, as I think affirmative action is a crock, and even WA state, where I live, thinks so.

 

I, personally am for abortion. Let me state my position, I think foetuses are not living, and that it's a great convenience for women to be able to abort babies. Fuck, no politician will state it like that. That said Roe v Wade is shit. A constitutional right to privacy is VERY debatable, and even if established, does not apply to a _potential_ human life. Whether that IS life should be left up to the states' voters.

 

The Democratic party suckles upon the teat of Roe v Wade. And it is ridculous. There is a far better case to be made judicially, for gay marriage than legal abortion.

 

Give states rights. I will quickly vote for abortions (but not late-term) and gay marriage.

 

However, the left is so fucked now. Let people in states VOTE for affimative action(as much as I hate it) Let people VOTE per state for gay marriage. Let people VOTE for abortion.

 

That's all. I dislike parties so much right now. The Republicans are honestly right on a lot of stuff, though I don't like the war. Which is another discussion for another day.

 

-=Doug

[Art Sandusky 0]

Yeah, the Republicans are really making more sense lately. I'm still a wild and crazy Democrat though. We're too fun to abandon it now.

[Special K 0]

Well, at least you have commitment.And good taste in celebrities,.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Let people VOTE per state for gay marriage.

 

Every change in marriage thus far has happened at a federal level. Not all of them liked it (i.e. marraiges that involve black people marrying white people or even marrying each other.) Sometimes the culturally conservative who are slow to change with the times must be pulled kicking and screaming into the modern day.

 

I think that the Republicans are beginning to pull it together now that a fraction of them has woken up and begun to realize just what kind of element they've let take command of the party over the past five years. Now that both parties have shades of gray, things will get better off for all of us, I think.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

I have no political party.

 

I am socially conservative. I am against abortion unless the mother's life is in danger. I believe life does begin at conception. I am against gay marriage, but I feel that civil unions might be OK, as it would be a tolerable solution. I am pro-capitalism, and am against widespread social welfare programs.

 

As you can tell, I'm probably not wild about the Democrats. The fact though is that I voted for John Kerry in the last election. I hate President Bush's economic and ecological policies. I hate how he caters to big corporations. The Republican Party, as a rule, follows him lock and step on these issues.

 

I also feel very strongly that illegal immigration must be stopped. It's not fair to legal immigrants; and while many people are sneaking into this country simply to work, there are also criminals and potential terrorists crossing our borders as well. If we have really "learned the lessons of September 11th", we need to take steps to close these gaping holes in our national security. George W. Bush has basically refused to take any meaningful action on this issue. Certainly the Democrats won't be forcing the issue, though.

 

I feel that the Democrats making Howard Dean the DNC chairman was a huge mistake. It is as if they learned nothing from the last election cycle. He is simply too far left-leaning to appeal to most Americans. I was offended when he said the Republican Party is the party of "Christian white guys." As a "Christian white guy", it doesn't exactly make me want to vote Democrat again. Did he forget that most Americans are "Christian white guys", or "Christian white women?"

 

Neither party seems to really be in touch with mainstream middle class America anymore, if they ever truly were. They don't understand the real issues that face people anymore, and it's entirely sickening. To me, it makes both parties very unpalatable.

 

Perhaps it's time for a third party that will uphold real mainstream values while taking actual steps and positions that would help mainstream, middle class America, rather than ignoring us and catering to the favors of extremists and corporate interests.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

You say you aren't persuaded to vote Democrat again after Dean talked about the Republicans being the party of christian white guys, but let's be real, you weren't going to vote Democrat anyway if that was enough to throw you to the other side.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Neither party seems to really be in touch with mainstream middle class America anymore, if they ever truly were. They don't understand the real issues that face people anymore, and it's entirely sickening. To me, it makes both parties very unpalatable.

 

Perhaps it's time for a third party that will uphold real mainstream values while taking actual steps and positions that would help mainstream, middle class America, rather than ignoring us and catering to the favors of extremists and corporate interests.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In light of this position (which won't change because it's too well-supported by finance laws and all that stuff), I'd like to say I'd love to see us take on a European-style system. Still with a strong executive, but with the need to form coalitions between parties and whatever because the population never has a clear majority favorite.

 

It speaks a great deal about American culture and our societal development when we develop a system in which you have one of two choices, but in other parts of the world you can have as many as ten choices that are contenders so to speak.

[Justice 0]

It speaks a great deal about American culture and our societal development when we develop a system in which you have one of two choices, but in other parts of the world you can have as many as ten choices that are contenders so to speak.

 

Well Kotz, bigger and more doesn't necessitate 'better'. Take the Italians for instance, or (possibly) the Israel Likud (If you consider the "Split and coalition" way of gaining power to be a bit dirty), and some South American countries (Which use foldout posters with hundreds of pictures to choose public figures).

 

The problem with our third parties is that they too often only shoot for just the gold, not trying to build up a base first. You need victories in the Senate, the House, and in State Legislatures to really have a chance to win, and none of them have really gotten around to that part of it. It's not societal differences, it's simply political reality and lack of thought on the third party's part.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

I've voted in 3 elections, and I feel all dirty because the only person of any importance that I've voted for that won was a Republican (Maryland Governor Robert Erlich) and he's doing such a "wonderful" job..but I couldn't bring myself to vote for Kathleen Kennedy Townsend.

[Masked Man of Mystery 0]

Dean actually isn't as far left as some make him out to be. He's financially conservative, pro gun rights, and right around signing the civil union bill, said he didn't support gay amrriage and made the concept sound like it was very scary to him. The Dean scream was so blown out of context it was nuts, he was excited by the heat of the moment, he's not insane.

[Art Sandusky 0]

It speaks a great deal about American culture and our societal development when we develop a system in which you have one of two choices, but in other parts of the world you can have as many as ten choices that are contenders so to speak.

 

Well Kotz, bigger and more doesn't necessitate 'better'. Take the Italians for instance, or (possibly) the Israel Likud (If you consider the "Split and coalition" way of gaining power to be a bit dirty), and some South American countries (Which use foldout posters with hundreds of pictures to choose public figures).

 

The problem with our third parties is that they too often only shoot for just the gold, not trying to build up a base first. You need victories in the Senate, the House, and in State Legislatures to really have a chance to win, and none of them have really gotten around to that part of it. It's not societal differences, it's simply political reality and lack of thought on the third party's part.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It wasn't really meant to be a slight on our system, that part. It just goes in line with how America has developed and matured compared to other parts of the world.

 

And the third party comment is right. The Socialists got a million plus votes in a Presidential election not because they charged out of the gate, but actually had elected officials around the country already. The closest current third party (the Libtertarians, I guess, maybe the Greens) doesn't even have anyone you can really point out and say "look, these people here think it's good, as do these people over in this other part of the country." It's all a big popularity contest, so don't come to the prom without any friends or knowing anyone there.

[Darthtiki 0]

Now I personally share the same views with Invader, however I am a Republican voted for President Bush twice. Of course there are things I don't agree with my party on cough *FCC* cough or say sexual rights i.e. what consenting couples can and can't do in the privacy of a bedroom or certain members of my party i.e. Warrior. But I believe in a strong dollar, privatized retirement, strong military (I support the war in its reasons, however I don't agree with it's execution), tighter borders and a low tax rate. However I believe we will see a very vicious fight in 2008 for the Dem with the loud and proud far left led by Dean on one side or the traditionalists who know to move to the center in an election year like Hillary. The truth is that in the end they are both the same animal. Now if they ran someone like Zell Miller on the Dem ticket I more than likely could switch parties.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Did Zell Miller ever defect? Shit, might as well if he hasn't already. We don't want those buzzkills in the party.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

But I believe in a strong dollar, privatized retirement, strong military (I support the war in its reasons, however I don't agree with it's execution), tighter borders and a low tax rate.

 

1 out of 5 ain't bad, I guess (although it seems to me like you probably shouldn't spend so much if you're going to cut taxes...)

 

Did Zell Miller ever defect? Shit, might as well if he hasn't already. We don't want those buzzkills in the party.

 

He won't because the only reason he is a Democrat is to sell books. If he was a Republican, he would just be another right-wing Dem-basher. The fact that he remains D (INO) gives him a little pizzaz to help sell his crap and get him a spot with his good friend Sean Hannity.

[Masked Man of Mystery 0]

Yeah, my friend used to live in Georgia and he said Zell was a somewhat normal Dem until he got into Congress and he became a Democrat in name only, I mean, you don't go and speak at the opposing party's national convention, that was screwed up

[Art Sandusky 0]

"WHAT'RE YEW GONNA DEFEND THIS CUNTRY WIITH? SPITBAULLS?!?"

[Special K 0]

Deul me u poser.

[Stephen Joseph 0]

Did Zell Miller ever defect? Shit, might as well if he hasn't already. We don't want those buzzkills in the party.

 

He won't because the only reason he is a Democrat is to sell books. If he was a Republican, he would just be another right-wing Dem-basher. The fact that he remains D (INO) gives him a little pizzaz to help sell his crap and get him a spot with his good friend Sean Hannity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

You know what? (EDITED). Okay, how many people know Zell here? Hmm, that's right, no one. Okay, who lived in Georgia during Zell's tenure? hmm, well I did.

 

Zell was a great governor. And he was a Democrat. A Southern Democrat and he's very pissed off that his party seems to have forgotten about its once powerful southern wing. He's not in it to sell books or be more famous.

 

Don't speak shit about someone who you don't even know enough about them to garner a halfway educated opinion.

 

<--BPP. Atlanta resident 1979-2003

Edited June 21, 2005 by Stephen Joseph

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Oh we can't discuss a public figure that we don't personally know now? When did this rule take effect?

 

He's a fucking snake.

 

Or did you not catch him bashing the hell out of the guy he once called "one of this nation's authentic heroes, one of this party's best-known and greatest leaders -- and a good friend"?

 

Also, "Zigzag Zell" changed his positions on everything from gay rights to public education to the environment when he became a Senator.

 

He told us it was "contrition" to think the naked-pyramid-construction at Abu Ghraib was wrong.

 

And this gem:

On Feb. 12th 2004 on the Senatorial floor, Miller tried to argue that rap music, nontheocratic government, homosexual marriage, and desecration of the American flag, all were destroying the nation. He said that censorship, converting the federal government into a state that preferred Christianity, and banning homosexual marriage, were all "of utmost importance". "Time is running out in this Senate and on this earth," he said.

[Special K 0]

And if he were so genuinely impassioned against modern Democrats, don't you think he could come up with something more authentic and sincere than slightly rewording a mass email at the RNC? It was preety much his chance to make his case to the largest number of people possible.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Hey Popick, I live in a state that produced Strom Thurmond. Don't tell me about people talking about someone from your state.

 

I mean, he was a motherfuckerin' asshole, but people still talked about him FOREVER because he JUST WOULDN'T DIE.

[SuperJerk 0]

And this gem:

On Feb. 12th 2004 on the Senatorial floor, Miller tried to argue that rap music, nontheocratic government, homosexual marriage, and desecration of the American flag, all were destroying the nation. He said that censorship, converting the federal government into a state that preferred Christianity, and banning homosexual marriage, were all "of utmost importance". "Time is running out in this Senate and on this earth," he said.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Source?

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Miller doesn't have a senate website anymore, but there is a transcript here:

 

http://www.visionamerica.us/temp/zellmiller.asp

[Justice 0]

Then there was that prancing, dancing, strutting, rutting guy, evidently suffering from jock itch because he kept yelling and grabbing his crotch. But, then, maybe there is a culture of crotch grabbing in this country I don't know about. But as bad as all that was, the thing that yanked my chain the hardest was seeing this ignoramus with his pointed head stuck up through a hole he had cut in the flag of the United States of America, screaming about having ``a bottle of scotch and watching lots of crotch.''

 

Okay, this has to be one of the funniest speeches I've ever fucking read. Just hilarious.

[Special K 0]

 

The classics never go out of style.

 

He looks like the Emperor from Star Wars.

[Justice 0]

"Your hate has made you strong..."

[Danville_Wrestling 0]

I consider myself a conservative independent and my voting was all over the place in the last election. I voted Nader for president, a Democrat to Senate (didn't win, Jim Bunning won in KY instead), and a Libertarian for House.

 

My big problem with the Democratic Party is that they aren't listening to what Americans want and are digging themselves into a hole defending the status quo. Consider that Social Security is in a mess and they still want to protect it at all costs. Consider that education is a mess but they don't want to push for voucher programs that would actually help minorities. Consider that free trade would help raise the standard of living (long-term) for poorer countries but they are opposing CAFTA simply to turn against Bush.

 

All I want from the Democrats are ALTERNATIVES! I'm not too thrilled with Bush's wild economic policy or the mistakes we've made in Iraq (although I think we have to stay the course now) but at least he's giving us some ideas to talk about. All I see from the Democrats is blocking judicial nominees, blocking John Bolton, STILL claiming illegitimacy in the last presidential election (although Bush won 51% of the vote and own Ohio by over 120,000 votes) and complaining about how Iraq is a "quagmire."

 

I actually would've voted for John Edwards, Joe Lieberman, or Dick Gephardt in the last presidential election but did you think the Democrats gave me that? Hell no, they thought that the boring John Kerry was their guy to win the White House, a guy who flip-flopped in everything imaginable to win the White House. I think the Democrats may have just intentionally sabatoged it so we can get a grand "Clinton restoration" in 2008 and if the GOP doesn't get their crap together Hillary could get elected. I say McCain in 2008 is needed but I fear he won't get his ass out of the primaries.

 

Third parties are giving us some alternatives but the election rules are written by the Dems & the GOP so it's very hard to get candidates on the ballot. Also, it's very tough to compete against other candidates when you don't have necessary funding to confront them and when you can't get into debates because they eliminate you from it. Then you have the perception that voting for a third party is "wasting your vote" which is the biggest crock of shit I've ever heard. Finally, third parties are hurt by voter registration rules that make people register months ahead of time. Heck, when Jesse Ventura won in Minnesota he won in a system where people could register the day of the election and enough young people turned out to give him a victory.

 

Sorry for the rant but the Dems are in bad shape because of their own antics. They need to get away from the far-left and give voters some ideas. Voters may hate the GOP's policies but they voted for them in 2000, 2002, and 2004 and why? Because people love ideas even if they hate the ideas themselves. Obstruction gets you nowhere in politics but a slippery slope to disaster but it doesn't seem that the Dems want to move away from that.

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

Then there was that prancing, dancing, strutting, rutting guy, evidently suffering from jock itch because he kept yelling and grabbing his crotch. But, then, maybe there is a culture of crotch grabbing in this country I don't know about. But as bad as all that was, the thing that yanked my chain the hardest was seeing this ignoramus with his pointed head stuck up through a hole he had cut in the flag of the United States of America, screaming about having ``a bottle of scotch and watching lots of crotch.''

 

Okay, this has to be one of the funniest speeches I've ever fucking read. Just hilarious.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

If you think that is funny you should see Charlton Heston reading the lyrics to Body Counts "KKK Bitch" to the stockholders at Warner Bros. Pure entertainment.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Consider that Social Security is in a mess and they still want to protect it at all costs.

 

No mess for approximately 40 years, pal. Perhaps we should see if the economic climate changes over the next couple of decades before we go fixing things.

 

Consider that education is a mess but they don't want to push for voucher programs that would actually help minorities.

Education was mostly a mess on the state level until NCLB, then all the schools started teaching for the test.

 

Voters may hate the GOP's policies but they voted for them in 2000, 2002, and 2004 and why?

 

A combination of the electoral college and Diebold voting machines that have no paper trail?

 

Because people love ideas even if they hate the ideas themselves.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"Republicans are the Party of Bad Ideas. Democrats are the Party of No Ideas. The Republican stands up and says, "I got a really bad idea!" Then the Democrat stands and says, "And I can make it even shittier!" --Lewis Black

[Danville_Wrestling 0]

No mess for 40 years on Social Security? Hmm...who controlled Congress for those 40 years? Oh! The Democrats! Thanks for proving my point. Heck, Social Security was in trouble by 1978 and was only saved with a payroll tax hike.

 

Education is a mess even with NCLB (which if you remember was supported by the beakon of liberalism himself Ted Kennedy). I'm just wondering why the Democrats won't support vouchers which will help minority children get better educations from their terrible school systems. The big thing is "funding" but we already spend more per capita per pupil then we ever have and it's not getting results. The problem is in putting too many regulations on teachers (coupled with crappy pay), "social promotion", and a lack of parental involvement at home (which no politican can do). I think education should be left to the states period and there should be NO Department of Education. The biggest problem, though, that any teacher will tell you is that politicians on the state & federal level who have NEVER sat for a full day in a regular U.S. classroom love to dream up more regulation to put on the system that it can't sustain. Basically, the above response about vouchers went unresponded too b/c you can't defend not giving minorities (or any child for that matter) better school choice.

 

Voters just didn't vote for the GOP by electoral college. What? Are you trying to tell me that EVERY TIME the GOP wins power it has to cheat? If that's the case then why haven't they been in power FOREVER? Did they just figure out how to fix voting machines starting in 1994? Also, the Electoral College only elects the President and while 2000 was a debacle Al Gore wouldn't have won anyway. All the major news outlets went to FL after the election and did 15 different recounts and Bush won them all. Gore only won on a 16th recount method that he didn't even request.

 

Hey, I'm not saying the GOP is RIGHT about any of their policies. I'm just saying that they are the only ones with ideas right now. They maybe terrible ones but at least their giving voters alternatives and until the Dems give people ideas of their own their going to keep going down in defeat.