Games with too much movie!

[Guest Askewniverse]

MGS2 on the other hand had WAY too much convo crap.  The ending of the game (from the multiple Rays attacking onward) is literally two fights crammed in between an hour and a half (not exagerrating, I timed it) of cutscenes and codec crap.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree. It took me a few hours to finish the Tanker chapter when I first played the game. The last time I played the Tanker chapter, I skipped all of the cut scenes and Codec sequences. It took me less than 10 minutes to beat the chapter. When more time is spent watching the game than playing it, I think there's something wrong.

 

 

MGS3's codec and movie length is more like MGS1 than 2. It may even have less than 1. Once you get past the first hour's tutorials.

 

The story is really good too. I wasn't interested inthe 60's setting or playing as Big Boss before it came out but I ended up thinking it was great. It really makes you see Big Boss and Ocelot in a different light.

 

If you liked MGS1 I think you should give it a chance.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Forget the story and cut scenes, how's the gameplay? Are the camo and eating aspects a positive or negative addition to the game?

[Anya 0]

It's pretty much more of the same, but without the radar. Instead you have to use sonar and first person mode to see where the bad guys are. Adjusting to not having the radar is hard at first.

 

I don't really think camo and eating is either a positive or a negative. Eating is basically just a more detailed substitute for the old rations. Camo is kind of interesting, it's fun to be hiding right in front of someone but they can't see you.

 

The boss fights are good. More in line with MGS1 and 2. The ending is also one of the best ever.

[Guest Askewniverse]

Sounds like it's worth checking out. The camo and eating aspects were large factors in making me hesitant to try the game.

 

EBgames.com has it for $19.99, so if that's the in-store price, I'll finally pick it up. I can't justify paying more than $30 for any game. If it means having to wait a year for a price drop, then so be it. As far as I'm concerned, no game is worth paying $50. I could use that money to buy 3 or 4 new DVDs instead.

 

And what's with the pricing at EBgames.com and Gamestop.com? For example, here are the prices for MGS 3:

EB Games

New - $19.99

Used - $26.99

 

GameStop

New - $29.99

Used - $29.99

[AndrewTS 0]

In summary--Anya read the topic and replied. She didn't actually read the examples/gripes within.

 

I know, right? All I'm saying is that I agree with you and then he continues to argue something that I'm not even really stating.

 

It was pretty well understood what you were saying/agreeing with. However, I wasn't dismissing her rather reasonable follow-up post.

 

Holy shit. This is quite possibly the nerdiest, most condescending, smarkiest comment I've ever seen on these boards. Quit playing VIDEO GAMES??! Someone takes their hobby a little too seriously!

 

Wow, did you understand the context, or in the rush to make a stupid flame-baiting attempt did you forget that?

 

If you liked Xenosaga (and there is a very legion of fans who do and consider it a freakin' work of art), apparently the prospect of actually controlling a video game isn't important to you, and they might as well make Choose-Your-Own-Adventure RPGs, since they have about the same level of interaction. Dragon's Lair may just have more "interaction" on the whole than Xenosaga.

 

The fact that a game like Xenosaga even exists today is scary as hell, because we went though this "interactive" phase before when companies like Sega thought FMV games were the future. If you find games like Power Rangers on Sega CD honest-to-God entertaining, please stay the hell away from my hobby, because morons like you will screw it up for everyone else. Fortunately, Xenosaga (1, 2, and the impending 3) seem to be anomalies. However, the possibility of other RPGs or other genres of games copying it is disconcerting.

 

Insinuating that a person should "give up video gaming" simply because they enjoy having cutscenes in a game to help them enjoy it more is asinine.

 

No, twisting my words as if I'm saying that is asinine.

 

However, I reiterated what I was actually saying in the last post. So what the hell is your problem? Do you just skim over my posts to find something to distort, then proceed to bitch about it?

 

Your boring dissertation was unnecessary, too.

[chaosrage 0]

I haven't played Xenosaga because I didn't like Xenogears.

 

If you didn't like Xenogears, I think you should give up video games.

[Jingus 0]

If you didn't like Leisure Suit Larry, then you should give up on playing video games. And ever trying to score with chicks.

[AndrewTS 0]

Gee, my feelings are hurt that quality posters like Jingus and chaosrage are mocking something I said.

 

Too bad they couldn't even do so with something close to the same context either.

 

Great contributions, guys.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

I personally could live without cutscenes/FMV's. They are misused to the point that doing without them would be a positive.

[AndrewTS 0]

I personally could live without cutscenes/FMV's. They are misused to the point that doing without them would be a positive.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Depends on the genre, the specific use, and how often it is used.

 

RPGs can get away with more them, because too few of them are selling themselves on their gameplay alone. Despite the graphics and sound boost, the gameplay of modern RPGs seems to have remained (overall) fairly mundane. The importanto of gameplay for an RPG probably only ranks at #3 (graphics/cutscenes are probably #2 in priority, with story at #1).

 

In general, I prefer the use in-game graphics/real-time cutscenes over CGI. When something looks so drastically different from the gameplay, it really takes you out of it. Anime-style cutscenes--fine. Real-time--fine, providing it looks good enough. However, when you cut to odd-looking, rubbery/plastic-looking people, it's a huge shift. Plus you're trained to wait it out, rather than remain on your toes to act. Just my feelings on it, anyway.

 

Big production titles probably are going to include more and more cutscenes/cinemas, since their aim (in theory) is to do everything very, very well. So they want a strong story, and usually they want to tell it in a powerful way i.e. cinemas.

[Anya 0]

I did read the other replies before replying and I gave you examples.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Which is why I try to generally avoid the Xenosagas or other games that are known to use cutscenes/FMVs a lot.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

I'm going to have to agree with Anya that fighting games need (optional, of course) story modes that fully flesh out a fighter's storyline with each fight. Back in the day (I'm thinking 1997), I spent many a quarter trying to see everyone's ending in X-Men vs Street Fighter. Of course, back then, it was just pictures with words, but I enjoyed it and was bummed when I saw that the follow up games in the Vs. series (specifically MvC2 as that is the only game I can recall finishing a 1P mode at home) contained nothing.

 

In this day and age, it would be pretty awesome if between fights in a Street Fighter game you were given animated cut-scenes.

[AndrewTS 0]

I did read the other replies before replying and I gave you examples.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I meant initially with the "games need more movies" comment.

 

You obviously did after I asked you, though. Thanks.

[AndrewTS 0]

I'm going to have to agree with Anya that fighting games need (optional, of course) story modes that fully flesh out a fighter's storyline with each fight. Back in the day (I'm thinking 1997), I spent many a quarter trying to see everyone's ending in X-Men vs Street Fighter. Of course, back then, it was just pictures with words, but I enjoyed it and was bummed when I saw that the follow up games in the Vs. series (specifically MvC2 as that is the only game I can recall finishing a 1P mode at home) contained nothing.

 

In this day and age, it would be pretty awesome if between fights in a Street Fighter game you were given animated cut-scenes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree with that. I think she's the one who said that Konquest Mode was the single best thing that Ed Boon came up with in years. While it isn't that great as a stand-alone game (Deception's, even), it helps teach you how to play the game and gets you involved in the story (and story is definitely one of the series' strong points, even as much as it's revised/retconned/rewritten).

 

However, most other fighting games don't have very complex stories and the makers don't care too much about them. The Soul Calibur games have strong stories--both overall and for each characters. It's a shame that the Edge Master/Weapon Master modes are so thin on gameplay and the story so irrelevant.

[Anya 0]

Konquest would be good if done right. I'm getting so sick of MK and it's story. It's reminding me of what happened to WWE, with me slowly losing interest as they continue to write horrible stories. Deception's Konquest mode makes no sense and doesn't even follow the basic MK timeline at all. John Vogel did a good job in MKDA but now really sucks.

 

MK Shaolin Monks looks to ruin the MK story even more. There are some RIDICULOUS retcons already known. Kung Lao was in MK1? Huh? It looks like MKSM is going to completely rewrite MK and MK II even more than they already have been. Meanwhile we still have almost no idea what happened during MK4.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Remember when you'd get excited every time you read in a gaming magazine about new fighters to come to a video game franchise like Mortal Kombat? I remember thinking Nightwolf was the next big icon.

[Anya 0]

The new characters in MK have been horrible since 4. They don't feel like they belong, it's like they're trying too hard to have "cool and badass" characters.

 

Meanwhile Tekken has introduced some of it's best characters lately. Steve Fox, Feng, Raven...

[Jingus 0]

Gee, my feelings are hurt that quality posters like Jingus and chaosrage are mocking something I said. 

 

Too bad they couldn't even do so with something close to the same context either.

 

Great contributions, guys.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Your feelings aren't supposed to be hurt. Laugh. Lighten up. It's just the internet, dude.

[{''({o..o})''} 0]

I must once again say how much I wish the Phantasy Star 4 cutscenes had been copied more.

[AndrewTS 0]

I must once again say how much I wish the Phantasy Star 4 cutscenes had been copied more.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh yeah--gameplay remains normal, but you get partial-screen animated close-ups of the action. Very cool.

 

*hands Jingus a Sarcasm Detector*

[Guest Vitamin X]

Y'know, I never realized that Andrew was just *barely* a step above CronoT in the awfulness department. But at least he possesses a modicum of intelligence.

 

Wow, did you understand the context, or in the rush to make a stupid flame-baiting attempt did you forget that?

Flame-baiting? Are you fucking kidding me? Grow a thicker skin. There'll be far worse things said to you in the real world, if you haven't experienced it yet. You have to admit that telling people to give up VIDEO GAMING is pretty ridiculous.

 

If you liked Xenosaga (and there is a very legion of fans who do and consider it a freakin' work of art), apparently the prospect of actually controlling a video game isn't important to you, and they might as well make Choose-Your-Own-Adventure RPGs, since they have about the same level of interaction. Dragon's Lair may just have more "interaction" on the whole than Xenosaga.

 

For all you blabbered about skimming over content and finding something to bitch about, you apparently missed the point of my "boring disseration" which you deemed unnecessary, most likely because it went over your head. The whole point of what I'm saying here:

No one since the mid-80's has ever played video games just for the sake of playing video games; somewhere along the lines, video games transcended the line between mindless gobbling up dots and the like to becoming a full-blown medium in which to tell a story, which can appeal to everyone on a more common basis.

is exactly my point, that I believe things practically HAVE evolved to that point, at the whim of the demands of consumers. And I'm saying there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

 

The fact that a game like Xenosaga even exists today is scary as hell, because we went though this "interactive" phase before when companies like Sega thought FMV games were the future. If you find games like Power Rangers on Sega CD honest-to-God entertaining, please stay the hell away from my hobby, because morons like you will screw it up for everyone else. Fortunately, Xenosaga (1, 2, and the impending 3) seem to be anomalies. However, the possibility of other RPGs or other genres of games copying it is disconcerting.

 

I'm not twisting any words here. These are your exact quotes being said here, Andrew. I'll just let the words stand, as I don't think there's anything else that could be said about them.

[AndrewTS 0]

Y'know, I never realized that Andrew was just *barely* a step above CronoT in the awfulness department. But at least he possesses a modicum of intelligence.

 

Flinging around insults proves your point so well. Nice job.

 

Flame-baiting? Are you fucking kidding me? Grow a thicker skin. There'll be far worse things said to you in the real world, if you haven't experienced it yet. You have to admit that telling people to give up VIDEO GAMING is pretty ridiculous.

 

Profanity works great too.

 

What's ridiculous is you blowing it out of proportion.

 

Tell me, have you played Xenosaga? Take a crack at it, consider the message in context, then spew your venom all you want then.

 

For all you blabbered about skimming over content and finding something to bitch about, you apparently missed the point of my "boring disseration" which you deemed unnecessary, most likely because it went over your head.

 

I skimmed it. There was nothing important worth responding to. However, because I ignored it that's grounds to insult my intelligence? Is that the best you can do?

 

The whole point of what I'm saying here:

QUOTE

No one since the mid-80's has ever played video games just for the sake of playing video games; somewhere along the lines, video games transcended the line between mindless gobbling up dots and the like to becoming a full-blown medium in which to tell a story, which can appeal to everyone on a more common basis.

 

is exactly my point, that I believe things practically HAVE evolved to that point, at the whim of the demands of consumers. And I'm saying there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

 

Yes, because I've constantly said that any use of cutscenes is an utter disgrace to the medium and should be totally banned? This is what you're claiming. I've already said that Anya's clarification on her first statement was perfectly reasonable.

 

You're the one who wants to twist my words into something else, for some unexplained reason.

 

The fact that a game like Xenosaga even exists today is scary as hell, because we went though this "interactive" phase before when companies like Sega thought FMV games were the future. If you find games like Power Rangers on Sega CD honest-to-God entertaining, please stay the hell away from my hobby, because morons like you will screw it up for everyone else. Fortunately, Xenosaga (1, 2, and the impending 3) seem to be anomalies. However, the possibility of other RPGs or other genres of games copying it is disconcerting.

 

 

I'm not twisting any words here. These are your exact quotes being said here, Andrew. I'll just let the words stand, as I don't think there's anything else that could be said about them.

 

And I stand by them. Go play some of those awful FMV titles like Night Trap, Power Rangers, Space Adventure Cobra, etc. COMPREHEND the fact that I think they're abominations that aren't worthy of being called games. Go play Xenosaga. See how much time you actually spend playing the game vs. how much you're watching cinemas (which I don't think were even so hot anyway).

 

I single out a few examples for criticism that I admit are either part of a dead movement or "anomalies," and you claim I'm speaking about all games that even moderately use them. You swear at me and insult me. You're the one with the problem here, not me.

[MrRant 0]

Zelda would be better if it had a FF style story and movie scenes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This is just plain stupid. If Zelda has a FF style story then it wouldn't be Zelda, now would it?

[chaosrage 0]

Gee, my feelings are hurt that quality posters like Jingus and chaosrage are mocking something I said. 

 

Too bad they couldn't even do so with something close to the same context either.

 

Great contributions, guys.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, I was being serious. It was just a coincidence that you said the same thing.

[Anya 0]

This is just plain stupid.  If Zelda has a FF style story then it wouldn't be Zelda, now would it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

It would be Zelda....but better. The original NES game had a barebones old school story and the series has evolved to tell a deeper, more detailed story. I don't see why it couldn't get even better and still be Zelda. WW is close already.

[Renegade 0]

I just want a Zelda game where Zelda is the main villain.

[AndrewTS 0]

No, I was being serious.  It was just a coincidence that you said the same thing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Except I didn't say "the same thing," and that comment had nothing to do whatsoever with the topic, then.

 

I think that there are games out there that cross the line, and then tend to lose the merit of playability.

 

Dragon's Lair is a "game" that I don't like at all, but it has the merits of its animation, atmosphere, etc. Plus, it's very short. It's inoffensive.

 

Games with grainy FMV, bad acting, and no actual playability fail to provide anything of merit at all. I feel they're complete trash, not worthy of being played by anyone.

 

Likewise, I think Xenosaga takes a crack at being two mediums at once--and fails miserably at both.

 

VX seems to be the only one taking offense at those opinions.

 

This is just plain stupid.  If Zelda has a FF style story then it wouldn't be Zelda, now would it?

 

I wouldn't call it "stupid." The series has retained great gameplay but added more cinematic touches. A more in-depth story wouldn't bother me at all, provided it wasn't extremely linear and terribly restricting.

 

I wouldn't want to see Link traveling around with a party, fighting with a turn-based battle system, etc., though.

[Damaramu 0]

A deeper Zelda story wouldn't be a problem but I mean if you tried to turn it into a turn-based game I'd see a huge revolt from the fans. And I'd lead the charge. And don't have Link start talking and blabbering all the time either. I like silent Link.

 

Now back to what I was going to say about cutscenes. I agree that if done right they're awesome. Put them in every now and then to get you into the story and show you something big. But by no means add them for every little thing and have them after every little boss fight or make it to where I can't play the story and I'm told it for longer than 10 minutes. Cutscenes longer than really 5 minutes are absurd.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

I want Link to turn heel, or be given that option.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Andrew, you are taking this petty thing far too seriously. But because you put so much effort in responding, I'll go ahead and put the same for you.

Y'know, I never realized that Andrew was just *barely* a step above CronoT in the awfulness department. But at least he possesses a modicum of intelligence.

 

Flinging around insults proves your point so well. Nice job.

 

No more than you insinuating people should quit video games because they disagree with your point of view. Or even worse, telling them to stay away from YOUR hobby because it'll ruin it from everyone else.

 

For all you blabbered about skimming over content and finding something to bitch about, you apparently missed the point of my "boring disseration" which you deemed unnecessary, most likely because it went over your head.

 

I skimmed it. There was nothing important worth responding to. However, because I ignored it that's grounds to insult my intelligence? Is that the best you can do?

 

A reasonable argument can't be made against something that you only "skim" over instead of actually take in and respond to. Your reluctance to do so is what made me jump to that conclusion.

 

The whole point of what I'm saying here:

No one since the mid-80's has ever played video games just for the sake of playing video games; somewhere along the lines, video games transcended the line between mindless gobbling up dots and the like to becoming a full-blown medium in which to tell a story, which can appeal to everyone on a more common basis.

 

is exactly my point, that I believe things practically HAVE evolved to that point, at the whim of the demands of consumers. And I'm saying there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

 

Yes, because I've constantly said that any use of cutscenes is an utter disgrace to the medium and should be totally banned? This is what you're claiming. I've already said that Anya's clarification on her first statement was perfectly reasonable.

 

You're the one who wants to twist my words into something else, for some unexplained reason.

 

Fair enough. I'll concede.

 

And I stand by them.  Go play some of those awful FMV titles like Night Trap, Power Rangers, Space Adventure Cobra, etc.  COMPREHEND the fact that I think they're abominations that aren't worthy of being called games.  Go play Xenosaga.  See how much time you actually spend playing the game vs. how much you're watching cinemas (which I don't think were even so hot anyway).

 

I single out a few examples for criticism that I admit are either part of a dead movement or "anomalies," and you claim I'm speaking about all games that even moderately use them.  You swear at me and insult me.  You're the one with the problem here, not me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think the thing is here, is a simple misunderstanding. For one thing, my point wasn't necessarily based just on how much cutscenes are used in games; it was how you reacted to the extreme examples, which is pretty ridiculous. By the tone of your last couple posts in this thread, it's obvious you're still rather irritated with the matter, so let's just drop it. This isn't going anywhere anyways, but you should at least look at what I was really responding to before this became any more of an argument:

As it is, some games/genres go too far. If anyone is saying Xenosaga needs more movies, I'd say to them to quit gaming, since they're missing the entire point.

If you find games like Power Rangers on Sega CD honest-to-God entertaining, please stay the hell away from my hobby, because morons like you will screw it up for everyone else.

 

Regardless of how horrible these games are, and judging by their popularity, I'd say most people seem to agree by lack of interest, these are pretty damn ridiculous, or at least obsessive, statements. Note, I'm not "flame baiting" here or using "profanity" to so much as blemish your paper-thin skin, but perhaps you should take a step back and realize that video gaming is just a HOBBY. If you were being sarcastic or at least only half-serious, then disregard this, but if you were being wholly honest and serious, you really need to re-examine your life.

 

I'm done with this. Let's be friends again.