So when is RVD coming back?

[Boon 0]

Actually RVD was more over in 2001/2002 than Cena/Batista are right now just because at that time the WWF/E still had their huge top stars like Austin, HHH, Hogan and the Rock, and Rob was getting the same amount of pops as those top main eventers. This reminds of the time (early 2002) that the WWE had to edit (lowered) the sound of RVD's pops from live television because they didn't want him to upstage any of the top guys.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

RVD was more over in 2001 then Cena is now?!

 

You've got to be fucking kidding me. That's just retarded.

[cabbageboy 0]

The ironic thing about saying RVD had been jobbed out too much is that I don't think it really affects him as much as someone like Jericho. I'd say RVD has a lot more credibility than Jericho does at this point, at least he hasn't cleaned up dog shit. Or tried to rape Booker T.'s wife (like Angle).

 

It amazes me as to how pig headed some are about RVD. I mean what, can you seriously say that rookies like Orton, Cena, etc. should have been pushed over Van Dam? It's as if they used RVD being over to get other guys over, but the problem is that RVD isn't at the point where should be putting over younger talent...he should be getting the push himself.

 

I'd just like to see RVD get a serious shot at maining when he returns. Some sort of run with the title. If he doesn't draw or excite the fans, then depush him.

[Boon 0]

The ironic thing about saying RVD had been jobbed out too much is that I don't think it really affects him as much as someone like Jericho.  I'd say RVD has a lot more credibility than Jericho does at this point, at least he hasn't cleaned up dog shit.  Or tried to rape Booker T.'s wife (like Angle).

 

It amazes me as to how pig headed some are about RVD.  I mean what, can you seriously say that rookies like Orton, Cena, etc. should have been pushed over Van Dam?  It's as if they used RVD being over to get other guys over, but the problem is that RVD isn't at the point where should be putting over younger talent...he should be getting the push himself.

 

I'd just like to see RVD get a serious shot at maining when he returns.  Some sort of run with the title.  If he doesn't draw or excite the fans, then depush him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Despite Cena's lack of ring talent, he's arguable the most over man on either show, makes shitloads of money and is at least sometimes entertaining. Hell, Orton was getting over with all the cute teenie-bopper crowds, too. I agree he didn't deserve the title so soon. The difference between Cena/Orton and RVD is partially the fan base. RVD appeals to ECW people and "hardcore" fans, who are already into the company and also don't fork over a lot of money. The fanbases for Cena/RVD make Vince money, and therefore they will get pushed.

 

As far as his credibility goes, RVD is not known for winning big matches and has never held the WWE/World Title. Jericho at least has the Undisputed Title. This is not to say that Jericho is entirely credible, but RVD is certainly not more credible in the main event scene.

 

Get over it, folks. RVD will never be a main-event draw. He is stale, his moveset is weak and he will never expand his horizons, change his character or increase his draw. He is an upper-midcard in the WWE at best- get used to it.

[Angle-plex 0]

Despite Cena's lack of ring talent, he's arguable the most over man on either show, makes shitloads of money and is at least sometimes entertaining.

 

When is he entertaining? I think I must be missing those segments. And he might be over (although his promos make him look like he's desperate for any type of reaction) but he's still not much of a draw.

 

The difference between Cena/Orton and RVD is partially the fan base. RVD appeals to ECW people and "hardcore" fans, who are already into the company and also don't fork over a lot of money. The fanbases for Cena/RVD make Vince money, and therefore they will get pushed.

 

What fanbase to Cena and Orton appeal to? Cena appeals to white pre-teens/early teens and Orton appeals to girls. WWE's audience is mostly comprised of older males.

 

Get over it, folks. RVD will never be a main-event draw. He is stale, his moveset is weak and he will never expand his horizons, change his character or increase his draw.

 

Couldn't that description could fit a certain WWE Champion?

[cabbageboy 0]

These arguments against RVD are silly. RVD does in fact have more credibility than Jericho. Head to head I'd say RVD has beaten Jericho twice as many times as Jericho has beaten him. Sure, Jericho held the world title but it was that very title push that ended up killing his credibility.

 

Orton doesn't draw shit and is a bland in ring wrestler. Cena might be over but I've said this a million times on here...it's because he's GETTING PUSHED. Yeah he might be more popular than RVD at this exact moment, but it's because he's getting pushed. Also, how is RVD stale when he's been injured for most of the year and when he did return on the Cabana he got a huge response? The past 2 times I've seen him (ONS and the Cabana) he did seem like he's changing his laid back stoner character, so that argument doesn't fly either.

 

All I'm saying is this. It's only a matter of time before the fans turn on Cena. It's going to happen, the very nature of his wigger gimmick makes it a certainty. Thus, Raw is going to need someone that the fans actually like and really RVD is the guy who makes the most sense right now. Who else is in a position to be a major face on Raw?

[Guest MikeSC]

Shelton Benjamin.

[Boon 0]

When is he entertaining? I think I must be missing those segments. And he might be over (although his promos make him look like he's desperate for any type of reaction) but he's still not much of a draw.

 

He's cut some entertaining promos. His mic work is passable and he at least says something when he speaks. He has charisma, and despite my own personal beliefs, he is one of the most entertaining guys on the roster. He connects with the crowd and gets reactions at nearly everything he does. That's entertainment.

 

What fanbase to Cena and Orton appeal to? Cena appeals to white pre-teens/early teens and Orton appeals to girls. WWE's audience is mostly comprised of older males.

 

You're making my point. Cena and Orton bring in a new fanbase, and therefore more money. RVD's fanbase is already hooked on the product, they're nothing new.

 

Couldn't that description could fit a certain WWE Champion?

 

Other then the fact that his personality has changed since he's been with the company. Yes, Cena has a limited move set right now, but he moves more merch then RVD and he has gotten more over in a shorter period of time then RVD. In four years if Cena is the same character, then I will say the same thing about him that I am about RVD, with the exception that Cena was WAY more over then RVD in his first two years.

 

These arguments against RVD are silly. RVD does in fact have more credibility than Jericho. Head to head I'd say RVD has beaten Jericho twice as many times as Jericho has beaten him. Sure, Jericho held the world title but it was that very title push that ended up killing his credibility.

 

Jericho holds victories over established stars (Rock, Austin, Angle, Benoit, etc.) While Jericho's title reign may have sucked, he's beaten more top guys then RVD, and fans can see Jericho in the main event easier then they can see RVD.

 

Cena might be over but I've said this a million times on here...it's because he's GETTING PUSHED. Yeah he might be more popular than RVD at this exact moment, but it's because he's getting pushed.

 

Getting pushed does not equate to popularity. see also Hassan, nearly every Hoss on Smackdown, Chris Masters.

 

Also, how is RVD stale when he's been injured for most of the year and when he did return on the Cabana he got a huge response? The past 2 times I've seen him (ONS and the Cabana) he did seem like he's changing his laid back stoner character, so that argument doesn't fly either.

 

He got a pop at ONS b/c the fans were fucking ECW marks. He got a pop at the Cabana b/c he was debuting on a new show- The Big Show got a great pop too, you know. As soon as he comes back to regular action, it will become obvious that he is still stale as fuck. Maybe he's just angry b/c his pot is all gone.

 

Who else is in a position to be a major face on Raw?

What Mike said.

[cabbageboy 0]

Shelton Benjamin??? The guy is getting frequent boos against fucking CARLITO of all people. You think he's in any way over enough to put in a main event face spot? If anything I think he might make a more natural main event level heel.

 

The Jericho claim is dubious as well, observe:

 

Rock, Austin, Angle, Benoit. RVD has beaten the Rock nearly every time they fought aside from the one WCW title match where Steph did a botched run in. RVD beat Austin a lot cleaner than Jericho did as well (Angle's music played vs. the NWO run in ). RVD beat holy hell out of Kurt quite a few times, especially the time he won and left Angle bloody. RVD also beat Benoit in the oh so trashed SS 02 encounter to blow off that pseudo feud.

[Guest MikeSC]

Shelton Benjamin???  The guy is getting frequent boos against fucking CARLITO of all people.

He was also given one of the worst title pushes ever. He was IC Champ, but never got promo time, never got a meaningful program, etc. Jericho's WCW World TV Title run was handled better --- and that run was handled horrendously.

You think he's in any way over enough to put in a main event face spot?  If anything I think he might make a more natural main event level heel.

Shelton would do excellent at anything if he was given half of a chance.

The Jericho claim is dubious as well, observe:

 

Rock, Austin, Angle, Benoit.  RVD has beaten the Rock nearly every time they fought aside from the one WCW title match where Steph did a botched run in.  RVD beat Austin a lot cleaner than Jericho did as well (Angle's music played vs. the NWO run in ).

Jericho does have that whole beating Rock and Austin in the same night thing.

RVD beat holy hell out of Kurt quite a few times, especially the time he won and left Angle bloody.  RVD also beat Benoit in the oh so trashed SS 02 encounter to blow off that pseudo feud.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And it was one of Benoit's most disappointing matches.

 

Until RVD freshens up his moveset, learns to sell, and learn to cut a promo (again, his ONS promo was atrocious), I wouldn't give him a big push.

[Boon 0]

Given the proper feud and booking, Shelton could easily become a top face. Look at the mini-HHH feud he had. He was just about there.

 

Jericho v. RVD argument- in high profile, memorable matches, Jericho has the edge over RVD. Let's just look at title matches, (tag, world, IC, etc.)

 

According to wwe.com title history, in title history:

 

RVD has beaten:

Eddie, Benoit, Jericho, and Angle, each once.

 

Jericho has beaten:

The Rock (3x), Kurt Angle (1x), SCSA (3x), HHH (1x), Benoit (3x), RVD (2x)

 

Jericho's credibility > RVD's credibility

[Guest slmon]

"What crap worker has RVD dragged to a good match? None come to mind."

 

He drew good matches out of UT at Vengeance 2001 and the phantom title switch match on Raw in May 2002. I was very impressed how RVD could get Taker's big ass moving and how he used Taker as something like a big prop in those matches. Very effective use of Taker, IMHO.

[Angle-plex 0]

Cena's matches are horrible and his mic skills are passible? And that makes him entertaining? His promos are just a bunch of screaming and yelling, and when the crowd doesnt' react, he increases the volume even MORE, which makes him look desperate. He's not very good at anything really. And Cena's bringing in a new fanbase? Where are the numbers to support this? If this is true, than why are RAW's ratings not increasing weekly? Is he bringing in the fans that left the past few years? Is he bringing in new fans faster than old fans are leaving?

 

Shelton would do excellent at anything if he was given half of a chance.

 

Why people argue that RVD shouldn't get pushed and Shelton should is beyond me.

 

Shelton was given a chance at Backlash against Jericho and he brought nothing to the table except his fancy offensive moveset. Can he sell? Can he cut an great promo (not funny one-liners)? Does he grasp the concept of psychology and having a story-driven match? So far, all signs point to no. If he learns all of this while in the midcard then maybe he'll be ready for a main event push in a year or so but right now is too early.

 

These two guys essantially have the same flaws and same strenghts yet one sucks and one is praised.

[King Cucaracha 0]

Notice, everyone praising RVD here, that nearly every arguement for Van Dam is worded in the PAST tense and usually includes either "ECW", "2001" or "2002".

 

Shelton hasn't been given the chances RVD has (past tense) as yet, so some of the comparisons suck.

 

Can he sell? Can he cut an great promo (not funny one-liners)? Does he grasp the concept of psychology and having a story-driven match? So far, all signs point to no.

 

That could apply to Robbie as much as Shelton right now and RVD has at least 6 years experience on him. RVD was given mic-time at ONS. More than Benjamin's ever had. And it was horrible.

 

Like I say, I like RVD, he entertained me in ECW and he's watchable. Maybe a couple of years ago, he could and should have been World Champ. Now? Not so much. I really, really don't see what's so special about him though.

[Guest JMA]

That could apply to Robbie as much as Shelton right now and RVD has at least 6 years experience on him. RVD was given mic-time at ONS. More than Benjamin's ever had. And it was horrible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's only your opinion, though. Most people seemed to like it. Don't their opinions matter?

 

I'm never gotten the whole "RVD can't talk" argument. It just seems like another unjust criticism of the guy that he pretty much proved wrong at ONS.

[Guest JMA]

Notice, everyone praising RVD here, that nearly every arguement for Van Dam is worded in the PAST tense and usually includes either "ECW", "2001" or "2002".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd say a lot of people think he has what it takes in the PRESENT as well (especially after ONS). He impressed many people with his promo and the fans reacted to him very well when he showed up on Raw. No one really needs to talk about RVD's past when his present situation is pretty damn good.

[iggymcfly 0]

What's special about RVD is that he's the only remotely over face on the Raw brand that isn't:

 

a) 50 years old and unable to move

b) using an embarrassingly bad "gangsta" gimmick and terrible in the ring

c) involved in a "shoot" feud that will take all his heat away as soon as it ends

 

Basically, the fans are still into him, and if they just do a simple build with him, (have him wrestler regularly on Raw and win all his feuds for the next six or seven months,) then we have an extremely viable face World Champion. What's complicated about that?

[Guest JMA]

These two guys essantially have the same flaws and same strenghts yet one sucks and one is praised.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It might be because Shelton has the whole "amateur" background. While Shelton is MUCH better at pure wrestling, I don't think he's nearly as exciting as RVD in the ring. That's quite an important factor.

[Angle-plex 0]

Can he sell? Can he cut an great promo (not funny one-liners)? Does he grasp the concept of psychology and having a story-driven match? So far, all signs point to no.

 

That could apply to Robbie as much as Shelton right now and RVD has at least 6 years experience on him. RVD was given mic-time at ONS. More than Benjamin's ever had. And it was horrible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That was the point. Many want WWE not to push RVD because he sucks, yet push Benjamin to the main events because he's great. Both are great athletes. Both are great bumpers. Both are great at spots.

 

They're both horrible in ways already mentioned, but RVD at least has a little bit of character and more in-ring charisma.

 

And RVD's promo was awful? Not really. He's better than a lot of the usualy RAW promo guys. At least better than Edge, Lita, Matt Hardy, Kane, Snitsky, and Chris Masters (I'd also add Carlito, but that discussion is already in another thread).

 

While Shelton is MUCH better at pure wrestling, I don't think he's nearly as exciting as RVD in the ring.

 

Shelton could be the best pure wrestler in the world, but it doesn't matter if he doesn't show it.

[Guest JMA]

Shelton could be the best pure wrestler in the world, but it doesn't matter if he doesn't show it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed.

[Boon 0]

I've been away most of the afternoon, so I've got some catching up to do.

 

"What crap worker has RVD dragged to a good match? None come to mind."

 

He drew good matches out of UT at Vengeance 2001 and the phantom title switch match on Raw in May 2002. I was very impressed how RVD could get Taker's big ass moving and how he used Taker as something like a big prop in those matches. Very effective use of Taker, IMHO.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I wouldn't call that a good match, but decent enough. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, he's had one good match with dead weight that used to be able to go, and that match was four years ago. I still hold faith that UT can still go when he wants to. I'll give him half a point for that.

 

Cena's matches are horrible and his mic skills are passible? And that makes him entertaining? His promos are just a bunch of screaming and yelling, and when the crowd doesnt' react, he increases the volume even MORE, which makes him look desperate. He's not very good at anything really. When Cena speaks, the arena literally stops. He has them in the palm of his hands. The only other person/people in very recent memory who have had that much control over the crowd is Austin and Hogan.

And Cena's bringing in a new fanbase? Where are the numbers to support this? If this is true, than why are RAW's ratings not increasing weekly? Is he bringing in the fans that left the past few years? Is he bringing in new fans faster than old fans are leaving?

 

Maybe you haven't noticed in the live crowds the dozens of little kids with inflatable John Cena hands, stupid spinning necklaces and fake knucks. And Cena has been on Raw for a month. Smackdown was losing ratings w/ JBL as the champ, and there was a slow increase weekly when Cena won. If fans are leaving like you say they are, then new ones must be coming in to at least keep the ratings consistent.

 

Shelton would do excellent at anything if he was given half of a chance.

 

Why people argue that RVD shouldn't get pushed and Shelton should is beyond me.

 

Shelton was given a chance at Backlash against Jericho and he brought nothing to the table except his fancy offensive moveset. Can he sell? Can he cut an great promo (not funny one-liners)? Does he grasp the concept of psychology and having a story-driven match? So far, all signs point to no. If he learns all of this while in the midcard then maybe he'll be ready for a main event push in a year or so but right now is too early.

 

These two guys essantially have the same flaws and same strenghts yet one sucks and one is praised.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If the two guys have the same flaws and strengths [which I don't believe], but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Shelton deserves a push b/c he's gotten to the level in his career of RVD in 1/4 of the time that it took RVD.

 

That could apply to Robbie as much as Shelton right now and RVD has at least 6 years experience on him. RVD was given mic-time at ONS. More than Benjamin's ever had. And it was horrible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's only your opinion, though. Most people seemed to like it. Don't their opinions matter?

 

I'm never gotten the whole "RVD can't talk" argument. It just seems like another unjust criticism of the guy that he pretty much proved wrong at ONS.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Which is your opinion. I agree with King and Mike- his promo sounded whiny, and it is really overrated. Like I said, it was given to the right group of ECW marks, who would've loved it if RVD had just come out and talked about his day.

 

Notice, everyone praising RVD here, that nearly every arguement for Van Dam is worded in the PAST tense and usually includes either "ECW", "2001" or "2002".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd say a lot of people think he has what it takes in the PRESENT as well (especially after ONS). He impressed many people with his promo and the fans reacted to him very well when he showed up on Raw. No one really needs to talk about RVD's past when his present situation is pretty damn good.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Like I said- preaching to the right group of marks at ONS, and debuting on a new show. Anyone would've gotten a pop on Raw.

 

What's special about RVD is that he's the only remotely over face on the Raw brand that isn't:

 

a) 50 years old and unable to move

b) using an embarrassingly bad "gangsta" gimmick and terrible in the ring

c) involved in a "shoot" feud that will take all his heat away as soon as it ends

 

Basically, the fans are still into him, and if they just do a simple build with him, (have him wrestler regularly on Raw and win all his feuds for the next six or seven months,) then we have an extremely viable face World Champion. What's complicated about that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's not complicated, it's just useless. RVD has had years to prove himself as a viable World Champion contender, and he has failed. Miserably. Why should they invest another 6-7 months in him?

 

These two guys essantially have the same flaws and same strenghts yet one sucks and one is praised.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It might be because Shelton has the whole "amateur" background. While Shelton is MUCH better at pure wrestling, I don't think he's nearly as exciting as RVD in the ring. That's quite an important factor.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I still don't see how people consider RVD exciting. He puts on the most predictable, apathetic, boring matches I've seen in a long time. And Shelton has shown that he is way more then just a great amateur. Watch his Gold Rush tournament match with HBK again. Shelton is not only a great amateur, he's a great spot man, and has amazing athleticism, balance, etc.

 

Can he sell? Can he cut an great promo (not funny one-liners)? Does he grasp the concept of psychology and having a story-driven match? So far, all signs point to no.

 

That could apply to Robbie as much as Shelton right now and RVD has at least 6 years experience on him. RVD was given mic-time at ONS. More than Benjamin's ever had. And it was horrible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you!!

 

That was the point. Many want WWE not to push RVD because he sucks, yet push Benjamin to the main events because he's great. Both are great athletes. Both are great bumpers. Both are great at spots.

 

They're both horrible in ways already mentioned, but RVD at least has a little bit of character and more in-ring charisma. If Shelton was ever given the chance to show some character, I think you'd be impressed. The very short amount of time he had with Jericho, he showed more depth then RVD ever has.

 

And RVD's promo was awful? Not really. He's better than a lot of the usualy RAW promo guys. At least better than Edge, Lita, Matt Hardy, Kane, Snitsky, and Chris Masters (I'd also add Carlito, but that discussion is already in another thread).

The one promo other then "cool" or "whatever" he did was not good. I'm sorry, but that ONS "shoot" was just lame. BTW- Edge showed he can cut a good promo still, and his old stuff is solid gold. You're right about the rest of them, though. UGH.

 

While Shelton is MUCH better at pure wrestling, I don't think he's nearly as exciting as RVD in the ring.

 

Shelton could be the best pure wrestler in the world, but it doesn't matter if he doesn't show it. That doesn't even make sense... Have you not watched one of his matches?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sorry that's so long, but I wanted to make sure I addressed everything that was said.

[Guest JMA]

Actually RVD was more over in 2001/2002 than Cena/Batista are right now just because at that time the WWF/E still had their huge top stars like Austin, HHH, Hogan and the Rock, and Rob was getting the same amount of pops as those top main eventers. This reminds of the time (early 2002) that the WWE had to edit (lowered) the sound of RVD's pops from live television because they didn't want him to upstage any of the top guys.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now that you mention it, I do remember WWE having to drown out the crowd reaction for RVD. So much for letting the fans express their opinions, eh?

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

I wouldn't call that a good match, but decent enough. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, he's had one good match with dead weight that used to be able to go, and that match was four years ago. I still hold faith that UT can still go when he wants to. I'll give him half a point for that.

 

You also failed the mention that Cena/Taker was better, both at Vengeance 2003 and on Smackdown last year.

[Boon 0]

Actually RVD was more over in 2001/2002 than Cena/Batista are right now just because at that time the WWF/E still had their huge top stars like Austin, HHH, Hogan and the Rock, and Rob was getting the same amount of pops as those top main eventers. This reminds of the time (early 2002) that the WWE had to edit (lowered) the sound of RVD's pops from live television because they didn't want him to upstage any of the top guys.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now that you mention it, I do remember WWE having to drown out the crowd reaction for RVD. So much for letting the fans express their opinions, eh?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

[Angle-plex 0]

When Cena speaks, the arena literally stops. He has them in the palm of his hands. The only other person/people in very recent memory who have had that much control over the crowd is Austin and Hogan.

 

Have you seen an Austin promo from 1998? The crowd pops literally every time he pauses because they are so excited to see him. The crowd doesn't react to Cena the same way.

 

Maybe you haven't noticed in the live crowds the dozens of little kids with inflatable John Cena hands, stupid spinning necklaces and fake knucks. And Cena has been on Raw for a month. Smackdown was losing ratings w/ JBL as the champ, and there was a slow increase weekly when Cena won. If fans are leaving like you say they are, then new ones must be coming in to at least keep the ratings consistent.

 

He's not driving old fans away, but he's not bringing the fans that already left back, and he's not bringing in new fans (And if he's such a draw like Austin and Hogan, he should be). Add that to the fact that his gimmick is growing more stale by the week.

 

And if he's so big then fans should have tuned in to Smackdown regardless of if Cena had the belt. Did fans tune out in 98/99 when Austin wasn't champion?

 

If the two guys have the same flaws and strengths [which I don't believe], but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Shelton deserves a push b/c he's gotten to the level in his career of RVD in 1/4 of the time that it took RVD.

 

RVD got to that level quickly in his career as well...he just didn't change much after.

 

It's not complicated, it's just useless. RVD has had years to prove himself as a viable World Champion contender, and he has failed. Miserably. Why should they invest another 6-7 months in him?

 

How did he fail? He was at least as over as Cena and Batista are now back in 2001/2002. If anyone failed, it was WWE.

 

And Shelton has shown that he is way more then just a great amateur. Watch his Gold Rush tournament match with HBK again. Shelton is not only a great amateur, he's a great spot man, and has amazing athleticism, balance, etc.

 

His match vs HBK was the exception, and I thought that after that match Shelton would start using his head while wrestling. He proved me wrong. Watch his matches vs Jericho Backlash 2005, vs Jericho Taboo Tuesday, and vs Flair Backlash 2004, and you'll see his flaws pretty clearly.

 

His matches with Carlito have also been just awful.

 

If Shelton was ever given the chance to show some character, I think you'd be impressed. The very short amount of time he had with Jericho, he showed more depth then RVD ever has.

 

Not true. He showed more depth than RVD has since 2001 would be accurate, however, because that's zero. Shelton showed NO depth. What does he stand for? Why is he wrestling? What are his goals?

 

The one promo other then "cool" or "whatever" he did was not good. I'm sorry, but that ONS "shoot" was just lame. BTW- Edge showed he can cut a good promo still, and his old stuff is solid gold. You're right about the rest of them, though. UGH.

 

Edge's stuff from 2000 is good. He was awful on promos from 2001 to last Monday on RAW. RVD is just as good, and also connects with the crowd 100x better, yet people are wanting him to be champion now as well.

 

Shelton could be the best pure wrestler in the world, but it doesn't matter if he doesn't show it. That doesn't even make sense... Have you not watched one of his matches?

 

The guy has a few spots. That's it. When has he used his pure wrestling to have it play into the story of the match? Never. Instead he uses that HORRIBLE kick, spin around, kick than opponents just can't seem to figure out.

[Guest MikeSC]

That could apply to Robbie as much as Shelton right now and RVD has at least 6 years experience on him. RVD was given mic-time at ONS. More than Benjamin's ever had. And it was horrible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's only your opinion, though. Most people seemed to like it. Don't their opinions matter?

 

I'm never gotten the whole "RVD can't talk" argument. It just seems like another unjust criticism of the guy that he pretty much proved wrong at ONS.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A whiny diatribe with some lame cheap pop lines was a good promo? It was shamefully bad. I was actually praying for Hunter to run out and talk instead. I first heard it and I was honestly floored people praised it. It was horrible.

[cabbageboy 0]

It was hardly horrible, but it depends on the direction he goes in from here. If he drifts back into his near silent stoner schtick then it was a waste of time, but if it sends him off in another direction then I'd think it was fairly successful.

 

The best mic work RVD has ever done was at Barely Legal in his post match rant against ECW, where he said he was making himself available to whoever wanted him on Monday nights. This was a prime example of how RVD should be used on the mic: He was given a general direction to go in (namely the WWF/ECW crossover) and went from there. The ONS "shoot" was totally adlibbed stuff that had no ties to a current storyline.

[Guest MikeSC]

His "Shoot" was also far more whiny than angry.

[cabbageboy 0]

He needs to stay away from that direction unless they're planning to turn him heel. Making the occasional insider comment is fine but I honestly can't think of anyone who ever got over by bemoaning their fate in every interview (Bret I suppose but this ended up hurting his career in the long run). I think the reason this doesn't work is that for it to work it implies that you are booked to lose or not say the right things, which shatters the illusion of wrestling. Yes, people know that wrestling is booked....but for the most part, no one wants this actively discussed on TV.

 

In an example of how this should work within the worked wrestling environment, RVD should just come back, make no real allusions to being held back by writers, and just speak up more on TV. Which I think is what will happen, since ONS isn't a recognized show in the WWE universe aside from whatever the invaders did.

[Guest JMA]

How did he fail? He was at least as over as Cena and Batista are now back in 2001/2002. If anyone failed, it was WWE.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm baffled as to how anyone can think RVD failed in WWE. His overness is still going strong despite constantly being buried (a good example of this is when he paid second-fiddle to Shane McMahon during his feud with Kane), even though it isn't what it once was.

 

RVD got himself over by--gasp--being different than everyone else at the time. His moves excited the fans and made them want to watch his matches. He didn't need to do "intense" promos to get them to chant his name. People tend to forget (because they want to) that RVD got himself over on his own. It was WWE--and WWE only--that failed

[iggymcfly 0]

When Cena speaks, the arena literally stops. He has them in the palm of his hands. The only other person/people in very recent memory who have had that much control over the crowd is Austin and Hogan.

 

Cena isn't even in the same zip code as The Rock was for crowd reaction. Watch any Raw or Smackdown from 2000 or 2001, (shit even 1998 before Survivor Series) and you'll see what I mean. The fans will give a big pop for his entrance and for any funny lines, but he's nowhere near the level of those top three.

 

It's not complicated, it's just useless. RVD has had years to prove himself as a viable World Champion contender, and he has failed. Miserably. Why should they invest another 6-7 months in him?

 

He did anything but fail. In 2001, he came out of nowhere and reached a level of overness that no new faces have reached since, (even Cena). He didn't just get pops for his entrance, he'd get fans chanting his name when he wasn't on screen.

 

i.e. Linda: I've come to a decision about the title situation at No Mercy

(Fans): RVD! RVD! RVD!

 

Vince: I have decided to bring back someone from the Alliance.

(Fans): RVD! RVD! RVD!

 

If the WWE decided to never pull the trigger on him and the fans lost interest after a couple years, that's not really RVD's fault.

 

If Shelton was ever given the chance to show some character, I think you'd be impressed. The very short amount of time he had with Jericho, he showed more depth then RVD ever has.

 

Bullshit. He stumbled over some crappy pre-written lines to the point that the fans almost turned on him and sided with Jericho. I think Road Dogg has showed more depth than Shelton did.

 

Also, it might be a reach asking you to remember this, but in December 2001, they teased a RVD/Jericho program for the title. It started with a title match on Smackdown that went to a no-contest when Flair came out and inexplicably decided the match was over and that he should give Jericho a figure four. Anyway, the next Raw, RVD came out and cut a tremendous passionate promo that was better than anything I've heard from not just Shelton, but Cena as well. I was sure it was going to catapult him to a title reign, but they ended up bailing on the feud and going with Rock/Jericho instead.

 

Anyway, the point is that we've seen great things from RVD and we know he can produce in all the facets necessary to be a World Champ. Looking at Shelton, there are some gaping holes that just keep him from being main event caliber. First off, he can't cut a promo at the minimum level of competency provided by someone like Chris Benoit. Second, he has no character whatsoever. Third, his ring skills, while adequate, are far too spotty and inconsistent to make up for the other two. Given that, and the lack of viable alternatives, it really makes sense to give RVD a push to the main event in time to win the World Title at WM 22.