So when is RVD coming back?

[Angle-plex 0]

RVD's not a master storyteller in the ring, but his offense is somewhat exciting and he connects with the crowd better than almost anyone. Take away his strong crowd connection and he's like the same person as Shelton Benjamin.

[NoCalMike 0]

I was simply asking when RVD was coming back, btw. LOL J/k

 

Seriously though, Enough with the "RVD is stale" garbage. Who on the roster isn't stale? In the WWE Enviornment of wrestling WHO DOESN'T do their same signature moves in every single match ad naseum. Once again, stop criticizing RVD for things that every worker does as a result of the wrestling enviornment and lack of creativity WWE provides or fails to provide.

[Guest Brian]

RVD's not a master storyteller in the ring, but his offense is somewhat exciting and he connects with the crowd better than almost anyone. Take away his strong crowd connection and he's like the same person as Shelton Benjamin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Only if you take Shelton's ability to work in a ring, his selling, his promo ability, etc.

[Angle-plex 0]

RVD's not a master storyteller in the ring, but his offense is somewhat exciting and he connects with the crowd better than almost anyone. Take away his strong crowd connection and he's like the same person as Shelton Benjamin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Only if you take Shelton's ability to work in a ring, his selling, his promo ability, etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

...all of those completely average traits? Shelton does have amazing athleticism, cool moves and a great sense of when to make the babyface comeback in his match; I'll give him that. Claiming he has anything beyond that is ridiculous. Watch his Backlash match with Jericho; Benjamin brings nothing to the table except the cool spots that he always does. The seven or eight minute RAW matches disguise it, but you can't expect him to work a twenty minute PPV main event just by doing cool spots, do you?

 

His promo ability is non-existent besides a few one liners that he delivered well, but you can't say he has good promo ability from that. We also can't criticize or rave about his selling either, since we've yet to see him in a match that requires it. He bumps good, sure, but that's not selling.

[Boon 0]

Van Dam has had over a decade to create a diehard cult fanbase.

 

Gene Snitsky has a cult following too, you know.

 

Seriously though, Enough with the "RVD is stale" garbage.  Who on the roster isn't stale? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You act like everybody says RVD is stale. I see more people sucking his dick then telling him to do something new. Point in case- the last 10 responses.

 

I'll give you the fact that the WWE style can sometimes cramp some guys, but it only cramps the guys who never change their personality. RVD has been the same character for four years. The closest I've seen to him freshening up his character was his "shoot" at ONS, which wasn't really that entertaining.

 

In the WWE Enviornment of wrestling WHO DOESN'T do their same signature moves in every single match ad naseum.

 

How about most of the cruiserweights, Eddie, Benoit, Kurt? These guys have worked WWE style and still managed to consistently put on interesting matches w/o the same old routine.

 

All of this is ignoring the fact that his offense is overrated to begin with. A monkey flip? An oversold frog splash? A heel kick? I'm sorry, but I'm really not that impressed.

 

RVD may have been the shit seven years ago, but time is the test of greatness. His stuff is old, and I for one have not missed him.

[cabbageboy 0]

What does that even mean? RVD's stuff from 1998 or so is still wildly entertaining. It didn't matter if it was against Lynn or a jobber like Big Vito or Mike Lozansky....Van Dam brought it and the match was entertaining. His persona and promo work was also edgy and cool....hell, the real RVD makes Cena look like Pat Boone.

 

I have to wonder what RVD is going to do on Raw however. His recent shoot type promos point in the direction of a bitter character, maybe a heel turn. Thing is, Raw is so short on guys that the fans actually LIKE that they might keep this toned down and keep RVD firmly on the face side for now.

 

It's weird that I've been sorta trashing Shelton in all this since I actually think he'll become a major star. Thing is, he has yet to really have consistently good matches or draw enough consistent heat to really make all these proclaimations on how great he is. Yeah he got some nice spots in during the Money in the Bank match, he had a solid match with Jericho, had a good TV match with Michaels. That's like 3 good matches really, and he's not terribly over with the crowd or especially notable on the mic. I do like Shelton and think he's got future potential once he learns how to work the crowd, but for now let's not put him up with Eddie, Benoit, and Angle.

[Guest MikeSC]

I will agree that RVD has been boring and repetitive on SMDN before getting hurt, but look at who he was wrestling!  Would YOU be ultra thrilled dicking around with Kenzo Suzuki and Rene Dupree?

No, probably not. But good workers would manage to make the matches watchable. Shawn dragged guys like Sid, Nash, and an exceptionally uninspired Vader to some damned good matches. Flair --- well, who didn't he drag to something good? Guerrero took Luther Reigns to a pretty good PPV match.

 

What crap worker has RVD dragged to a good match? None come to mind.

The main guy who really did make RVD look bad, and went out of his way to do so, was HHH.  Virtually all of the RVD/HHH matches are lousy because they are booked totally wrong:  HHH does his boring offense on RVD, who isn't exactly the best at long term selling.

And, while I agree, that is the reason the WWE has never gotten 100% behind RVD. The flaws he does have are 1) not going away and 2) pretty bad.

Seriously, who wants to see HHH work RVD's leg for 15 mins?  I suppose in theory it makes sense (take away the legs of a guy who would do a lot of kicking moves on you) but in practice it does just that...it takes away most of RVD's offense and puts him in the near impossible situation of having to sell a leg while attempting to do his stuff.

 

It's funny how people forget stuff.  I mean RVD during the 2001-2002 period was perhaps the most over guy on the roster and consistently had the best matches on Raw...but no, the guy can't work at all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Angle outworked him. Easily. Austin outworked him. Jericho outworked him.

[Guest JMA]

About Shelton's mic skills--I haven't seen enough to be impressed by them yet (his line about having "more hits than Fozzy" was great, though). That's NOT to say he isn't a good talker, but I don't think he's cut any really good promos as of yet. If WWE let him talk more we might be able to accurately gauge his skills on the stick.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

What crap worker has RVD dragged to a good match? None come to mind.

 

I can't think of any either. And he's actually dragged down good wrestlers like Benoit, Angle & Austin and the result was a crap match. In his entire WWE career, the only guys he's had matches that I would consider good with are Jericho, Guerrero & Lance Storm. With all three, it was a case of RVD being carried (almost literally with Guerrero). Undertaker/RVD was okay, but after those four, he's got nothing. His ladder match with Jeff Hardy at Summerslam 2001 was absolutely abysmal. He wasn't doing much better in 2001 than he was before he got injured, in many ways worse because he was tagging with Rey last year and they were able to have some decent tag matches. He was more over in 2001, but a hot crowd does not make a bad match good.

[Guest Ransome]

You act like everybody says RVD is stale.  I see more people sucking his dick then telling him to do something new.  Point in case- the last 10 responses.

 

I'll give you the fact that the WWE style can sometimes cramp some guys, but it only cramps the guys who never change their personality.  RVD has been the same character for four years.  The closest I've seen to him freshening up his character was his "shoot" at ONS, which wasn't really that entertaining.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This is the biggest problem with RVD's WWE career, as far as I can see. He's never freshened his character, which is essentially the same one he's been playing since he entered WWF in 2001. Heck, there wasn't even a transition between his mid-2001 'heel' character and his late 2001 'face' character; they were both the same persona except the latter wasn't affiliated with the Alliance. If he had just take time off around late 2002, it would have at least allowed him a few months break to come back strong, rather than be forgotten about and then saddled with useless tag teams like he was throughout 2003-2004. Did he do anything of relevance as a singles wrestler in 2004?

[Guest JMA]

I wouldn't call Orton a "crap worker," but he basically admitted that RVD carried him in that one Raw match. This was the one where Orton could barely move around well.

[Guest MikeSC]

I don't deny that Orton was in poor shape for that match. But, the match really wasn't that great, IMO.

[Guest JMA]

For anyone who's interested, here's the transcript of Orton thanking RVD for helping him through the match:

 

I checked my e-mail like I do every tuesday when i get home off the road, and saw how many of my friends and relatives were questioning whether or not i was legitimatly hurt during my match with Rob last night (1/12/04) on RAW.well, for those who are interested here is what occured. Within 3 mintes into the match RVD threw me into the ring post while on the floor, normally I would get my hands up in time to soften the impact, but if you watch it in slow motion, youll see one hand was too low and one to high. I cracked the top of my forehead on the post, leaving a cut that needed 10 stitches, and lots of sweeling. I have been knocked out before, and I was definitly knocked goofy, but not unconcious. I was however disoriented enough were I had trouble with balance and vision. During the commercial break I was pretty much inoperable but with about 30 seconds before the break was up, I had this sudden adrenaline rush, and with a few deep breaths I started to gain some perception back. Now I would like to comment on RVDs performance . He is the reason that match was able to go on. We had 20 minutes for that match. 3 minutes after the bell rang, I was in a state were I didnt quite know what was going on. Rob showed what a Ring General he was, by talking me threw the rest of the 17 minutes of that match.I hate "exposing" the buisness like this, but I feel that as fans, you should hear this so that you can see how difficult our trade can be, and possibly enjoy and respect it more then you do already.

Credit: Randy-Orton.com

[King Cucaracha 0]

Believe it or not, I actually like RVD. But a lot of the crowd reaction he gets now are nostalgia pops, because I can't remember anything worthwhile he's done in the past 3 years.

 

Also, RVD was NEVER a good promo guy. He was given the right character, which was given the Austin treatment (close enough to his own, real-life 'character' and then cranked up a notch), he played it well and was entertaining. Was. He was never a 'good' promo guy or even an 'underrated' promo guy, because he never needed to cut promo. RVD's character was more or less the equivalent of Batista in Evolution. Look cool, act casual, give a few funny lines and that's it. And RVD has had 8 or 9 years of being high enough on cards to cut promos. I haven't seen any OVW work, so I can't comment on that...but Benjamin's been no worse on the mic than Van Dam, with less time to improve.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

"Also, RVD was NEVER a good promo guy."

 

The RVD promos from just before WrestlePalooza 98 beg to differ. "You see Fonzie, the real question isn't how am I gonna defend my new TV Title. The question is how can Rob Van Dam carry two title belts and my partner at the SAME TIME?" ::Sabu gets in his face::

 

"He was given the right character, which was given the Austin treatment (close enough to his own, real-life 'character' and then cranked up a notch), he played it well and was entertaining."

 

The last time RVD was himself was in ECW. In WWE he was always "that flippy spot guy who didnt talk and said 'cool'" and was really over because he brought a new style to a WWE ran by the likes of Taker, Triple H, and Austin, and was put in the ME scene for a few months. Once he was jobbed out, the fans lost hope.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Yeah, if RVD just went out there and acted totally natural, he'd be your champ within a year of his return, seriously.

[humongous2002 0]

Yeah, if RVD just went out there and acted totally natural, he'd be your champ within a year of his return, seriously.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And the funny thing is that all the naysayers will jump onto the RVD bandwagon as soon as that happens.

[cabbageboy 0]

Okay, someone do me a favor. The next time you see Eddie or Angle or Austin ask them "Hey dude, did you carry RVD whenever you wrestled?" You might hear Angle say that "RVD was a bit rough and busted me open," but I doubt you'd hear "Yeah that guy sucks and I had to carry him."

 

I recall RVD carrying X-Pac to a pretty fun match in the 2002 KOTR tourney, though I'm not sure Pac qualifies as total crap. At that point however he was pretty much unmotivated. I'd also say RVD got some pretty solid matches out of Brock when he first debuted (not counting KOTR 2002), when Brock was green as grass.

 

What would help RVD is to have a contract like Raven did in WCW saying he could do violent stuff and not be DQed. "RVD rules" so to speak. Thus he could bust out the chairs and what not, and get in his main moves.

[Guest MikeSC]

"Also, RVD was NEVER a good promo guy."

 

The RVD promos from just before WrestlePalooza 98 beg to differ.  "You see Fonzie, the real question isn't how am I gonna defend my new TV Title.  The question is how can Rob Van Dam carry two title belts and my partner at the SAME TIME?"  ::Sabu gets in his face::

 

"He was given the right character, which was given the Austin treatment (close enough to his own, real-life 'character' and then cranked up a notch), he played it well and was entertaining."

 

The last time RVD was himself was in ECW.  In WWE he was always "that flippy spot guy who didnt talk and said 'cool'" and was really over because he brought a new style to a WWE ran by the likes of Taker, Triple H, and Austin, and was put in the ME scene for a few months.  Once he was jobbed out, the fans lost hope.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not going to get into another lengthy debate about RVD's promo skills --- but his highly-regarded promo at ONS was amongst the most painfully bad ones I've heard in a long, long time.

[King Cucaracha 0]

The promo UTSU mentioned was pretty much a few funny lines and that's it anyway.

[Guest JMA]

Yeah, if RVD just went out there and acted totally natural, he'd be your champ within a year of his return, seriously.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And the funny thing is that all the naysayers will jump onto the RVD bandwagon as soon as that happens.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That'd actually be kind of funny.

[Guest MikeSC]

I can assure you I wouldn't. My gripe with him wouldn't be fixed with a character change.

 

Unless it involved a massive revamp of his work.

[Guest JMA]

Yeah, if RVD just went out there and acted totally natural, he'd be your champ within a year of his return, seriously.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I tend to agree. It still amazes me how WWE dropped the ball with RVD during the invasion.

[Guest MikeSC]

I really don't think they did. They gave him a brief push and he just didn't have the ability to warrant a push over guys like Jericho, Rock, Austin, Angle, etc.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Unless RVD's talent improves significantly, I can assure you I won't come around on this issue. In my 17+ years of watching wrestling, I can only think of one wrestler who completely turned things around this late into their career and that was JBL. The odds aren't in RVD's favour. He sucked in 1998 and he sucks now.

[Guest panthermatt7]

I really don't think they did. They gave him a brief push and he just didn't have the ability to warrant a push over guys like Jericho, Rock, Austin, Angle, etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm going to disagree with that. They messed up his push in two ways:

 

1. They put him in the main event scene too quickly. Wasn't it the No Mercy PPV during the Invasion in which they suddenly thrust him into a three-way with Austin and Angle? He was ultra-popular, yes, but he was put into such a high spot so quickly, there was nowhere to go but up. Which leads to the second...

 

2. He has been jobbed out too much. You can only lose so many main event matches before the fans stop believing you as a main event contender. After losing the three-way to Austin and Angle, then being jobbed out to Jericho, HHH, HBK, Kane, etc etc etc, it would take a rather large push and undefeated streak to really make the 'casual fan' get behind RVD again.

[Guest JMA]

Unless RVD's talent improves significantly, I can assure you I won't come around on this issue.  In my 17+ years of watching wrestling, I can only think of one wrestler who completely turned things around this late into their career and that was JBL.  The odds aren't in RVD's favour.  He sucked in 1998 and he sucks now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd wager that the majority of the fans don't think he sucks, though. These people are your main audience and their opinion matters a great deal. JBL has done great with his character and in improving his promo skills, but he's still nothing special in the ring. He's a decent brawler, but that's it. His in-ring skills are average at BEST.

 

Ask the average fan (or even the average smark) who they prefer watching in the ring, and I feel they'll say RVD most of the time.

[Guest JMA]

I really don't think they did. They gave him a brief push and he just didn't have the ability to warrant a push over guys like Jericho, Rock, Austin, Angle, etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm going to disagree with that. They messed up his push in two ways:

 

1. They put him in the main event scene too quickly. Wasn't it the No Mercy PPV during the Invasion in which they suddenly thrust him into a three-way with Austin and Angle? He was ultra-popular, yes, but he was put into such a high spot so quickly, there was nowhere to go but up. Which leads to the second...

 

2. He has been jobbed out too much. You can only lose so many main event matches before the fans stop believing you as a main event contender. After losing the three-way to Austin and Angle, then being jobbed out to Jericho, HHH, HBK, Kane, etc etc etc, it would take a rather large push and undefeated streak to really make the 'casual fan' get behind RVD again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I definitely agree. Whether or not people like RVD's ability or not, his overness during the invasion was nothing short of amazing. It wasn't just the ECW mutants either.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

I really don't think they did. They gave him a brief push and he just didn't have the ability to warrant a push over guys like Jericho, Rock, Austin, Angle, etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

MikeSC, do you believe that Cena and Batista should be champs now... because RVD is a better worker than both of them and was just as over in 2001/02.

[humongous2002 0]

Actually RVD was more over in 2001/2002 than Cena/Batista are right now just because at that time the WWF/E still had their huge top stars like Austin, HHH, Hogan and the Rock, and Rob was getting the same amount of pops as those top main eventers. This reminds of the time (early 2002) that the WWE had to edit (lowered) the sound of RVD's pops from live television because they didn't want him to upstage any of the top guys.