OAO Great American Bash Thread

[iggymcfly 0]

Or they wanted to put a midcard title on Benoit as they _always do_ because they have no plans for him whatsoever but still want him on the card and are too lazy to think of reasons. It's pretty obvious that this match was to give Benoit the title - if they wanted OJ to "go over" Benoit, then the win would have been clean as Benoit is willing to job clean and put over just about any young guy.

 

You're putting way too much thought into this. They weren't thinking "how can we keep Benoit a part of the program down the road and on PPV cards for months at a time." They were thinking, "how can we get him on the card at GAB. Hey, Orlando Jordan needs an opponent." The match wasn't to put over Jordan or to do anything in relation to anyone's standing on the card. It was to fill 15 minutes of PPV time. Period.

 

Now, let's stop reading into things that the bookers weren't thinking, and look at the PPV from a kayfabe perspective. Undertaker won a match to become the #1 contender for the title. JBL defeated the World champion by DQ. Benoit got pinned in a US Title match. Which one of these doesn't belong in the main event? You can't tell me that just because you want to see a good worker in the title match that the WWE's planning for it to happen. I'm guessing you probably didn't want to see Kevin Nash main event a PPV with HHH or Hogan vs. Vince as a hyped WM match, but they went ahead with those, didn't they?

 

Now, to analyze where they're going with the main event a little further, we'll look at how our two (likely) challengers got into the title picture. Undertaker is #1 contender by virtue of being scheduled in a #1 contender's match against Hassan before they found out they had to kill off the Hassan character. This is despite the fact that they have no desire to run a Taker/Batista match, and seem to really want to run a Taker/Orton match. Meanwhile, JBL got a DQ win at GAB despite that fact that ending the PPV that way totally killed the crowd, and made them feel bad about paying for the PPV.

 

This leads me to believe that they're going to run Taker/Batista on Smackdown, get it out of the way (maybe ending on an RKO to Taker at the 8:00 mark), and set up JBL/Batista II and Taker/Orton for Summerslam

[EMAXSAUN 0]

It's funny, two GABs in a row, the Undertaker has "killed" off a character.

 

Last year: Bearer

This year: Hassan

[Team Angle Pusher 0]

It'll probably be JBL/Batista at Summerslam, they can do Batista/Taker at No Mercy BUT I hope they do a Triple Threat match because that match will sell and JBL/Batista won't together with Jericho/Cena. It's obvious who's winning, Cena and batista. With the Triple Threat they can surprise us and have Taker win the WWE Title, then lose it to Randy Orton one/two months later and then a Orton/Batista feud until RR where Batista/Lesnar starts with Batista as WWE Champ.

[Angle-plex 0]

We all remember last year's AWFUL AWFUL AWFUL WWE Title match at SummerSlam. Do they REALLY want to have a worst WWE Title match of the year 2004 rematch + Batista to headline SummerSlam? That would be brutal. JBL vs Batista....they supposedly didn't light the world on fire last night, nobody was interested the first time, and nobody would be interested in a rematch. Batista vs Taker or Batista vs Orton vs Taker would be the best way to go, although that would mean that RANDY ORTON would be the best worker in the World Title match at the second biggest PPV of the year.

 

...and Undertaker getting arrested for Hassan's murder would SUCK because WWE will make it over the top serious.

[cabbageboy 0]

RRR, I recall your rant on Hassan: "The guy had a bad match with Benoit! Nathan Jones didn't even have a bad match with Benoit!" How about the useless Orlando Jordan? He had a bad match with Benoit last night, with a horrible 80s finish. There are some finishes that badly need to be retired, and "heel taking off the turnbuckle" is one of them. It's right up there with "manager grabs the face's leg on a suplex" in the pantheon of bad finishes.

 

The fact is, Benoit is fucked. They have zero plans for him, unless it's to continue this epic Orlando feud and get his big blowoff win at SS (note sarcasm).

 

SummerSlam is a wash anyway. Even with the Hassan match removed it's still shaping up to be a disaster for the 2nd biggest show of the year. Actually it USED to be the 2nd show....I'd say right now it's a distant 3rd behind the Rumble. When the selling point of the show is "See the washed up 40 year old vs. the even more washed up 50 year old" you have major problems. You've got the neverending JBL push of doom here, the now heatless Randy Orton probably showing up to wreck UT's night, and friggin Jericho in the main event. I mean I still like Jericho but the guy is a complete jobber at this point and hasn't done shit to warrant a title shot. I mean at least JBL storyline speaking won a 6 way match and got a DQ win last night. Jericho hasn't done shit to even deserve this.

[nl5xsk1 0]

I do think they're in a position where they think that Benoit might be slightly above the US Title, but they're certainly not pushing Benoit for the World Title.

 

I never said that Benoit was going to _get_ the title, I said that it looks like they might put him in with JBL, Taker, and Batista.  JBL and Batista isn't finished, Taker is the number 1 contender.  That suggests a 3 way at Summerslam.  Do we see the problem in that?  BRADSHAW is the biggest bumper there.  It's not very balanced, it needs someone to carry the workload.  This is pretty good reasoning for putting Benoit in there.

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If they wanted to bump Benoit back to the ME slot, wouldn't they have had his match with Jordan end via CO or something less decisive than an actual pinfall? It's hard to justify including someone in the world title picture when he's fresh off a loss in his quest for a mid-car belt.

[Silence 0]

After watching GAB 2005 last night, I'd have to say that's the most credibility I've ever seen destroyed for certain WWE wrestlers (if not more) since Vengeance 2002 (when Jericho jobbed to Cena, Benoit and Eddie jobbed to the Dudleyz).

 

Fucking awful booking, like almost everyone else said.

 

MNM, Benoit, Eddie, Christian, and possibly Batista are fucked, as it is right now.

[cabbageboy 0]

Nah, Batista isn't fucked. He'll get the defining win over JBL, not like he didn't leave both JBL and Jordan laying last night. I also don't think MNM are fucked either, they'll simply regain soon.

 

Eddie, Christian, and Benoit? They're fucked. They might as well form a new JOB Squad.

[Exslade ZX 0]

Ok, as stupid as this sounds, man some of you people take wins way to seriously. I mean, someone loses, and some of you act like it's the end of that persons world. Well who knows how many times HHH lost in a row, and yet he was still getting title shot after title shot. Both Hassan, and The Undertaker were the first ones to be eliminated in the 6 man, and yet they still somehow ended in a #1 contenders match. Have people not yet realized losses don't really mean shit?

 

Eddie's lost before, Benoit's lost before, Christian's lost before, and yet Eddie still became WWE champ, Benoit still became World Champ, and Christian..well, he's been a jobber his whole career pretty much, but people still look on him as main event/upper midcard. A loss to Booker T, is not really gonna kill his credibility, just like a win over Booker T wouldn't really have gained him any.

 

And in Chris Benoit's case, what happened to the whole 'putting new superstars over' arguement that everyone uses every 2 months or so? Benoit's in pretty much the same position as Taker, HHH, HBK etc (as looked on by the fans) so shouldn't the same apply to him? And by some of the comments in the GAB thread, evidently Benoit did a good job of doing so. And people are now complaining about bEnoit being pushed down to midcard...do you really WANT him to win the US title? He won the world title, then lost it, next thing you know he was fighting for tag titles..just recently, he was in the SD Title match...and now he's fighting for the US title..it's just a neverending cycle. It's not like Benoit can be in the World title picture the rest of his career. And for all we know...Benoit could be in a #1 contenders match at SS? And its not like Eddie lost to freakin Simon Dean. None of these guys are 'fucked' as some people put it.

[cabbageboy 0]

Orlando Jordan isn't a future superstar....he fucking sucks, he's worthless and if anything should be RELEASED rather than holding a major title and 2nd in command of a heel faction. That's why it's sickening that Benoit would job to him. Orlando Jordan is the worst major champion since DAVID FLAIR and at least David was always booked to be a total joke.

 

I mentioned last night of wanting to start an "Orlando Must Die" club, but frankly I don't think anyone cares enough about him to join. Think about that one.

[Silence 0]

Ok, as stupid as this sounds, man some of you people take wins way to seriously. I mean, someone loses, and some of you act like it's the end of that persons world. Well who knows how many times HHH lost in a row, and yet he was still getting title shot after title shot. Both Hassan, and The Undertaker were the first ones to be eliminated in the 6 man, and yet they still somehow ended in a #1 contenders match. Have people not yet realized losses don't really mean shit?

 

Eddie's lost before, Benoit's lost before, Christian's lost before, and yet Eddie still became WWE champ, Benoit still became World Champ, and Christian..well, he's been a jobber his whole career pretty much, but people still look on him as main event/upper midcard. A loss to Booker T, is not really gonna kill his credibility, just like a win over Booker T wouldn't really have gained him any.

 

And in Chris Benoit's case, what happened to the whole 'putting new superstars over' arguement that everyone uses every 2 months or so? Benoit's in pretty much the same position as Taker, HHH, HBK etc (as looked on by the fans) so shouldn't the same apply to him? And by some of the comments in the GAB thread, evidently Benoit did a good job of doing so. And people are now complaining about bEnoit being pushed down to midcard...do you really WANT him to win the US title? He won the world title, then lost it, next thing you know he was fighting for tag titles..just recently, he was in the SD Title match...and now he's fighting for the US title..it's just a neverending cycle. It's not like Benoit can be in the World title picture the rest of his career. And for all we know...Benoit could be in a #1 contenders match at SS? And its not like Eddie lost to freakin Simon Dean. None of these guys are 'fucked' as some people put it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

While I thought that Benoit being the US Champion would be a step down for him, it's the fact that he lost to Orlando Jordan (the current US Champion), of all people, that's hurt his credibility, considering that Benoit is a former World Heavyweight Champion that gets standing ovations from the crowd every once in a while. However, Orlando Jordan is a heatless mid-card Champion that doesn't have many redeeming qualities about him, and hasn't defended the US title often, either. He's mostly seen as JBL's boring lap-dog, too, and that's been the case for an entire year now. It doesn't help that his wrestling ability still isn't even up-to-par to even deserve a push.

 

As for Eddie, when the hell is WWE going to give him a win over Rey Mysterio? There was also a "big secret" that was supposed to be revealed (which probably should have been done even if Eddie lost), but instead, since Rey beat Eddie for the millionth time, it wasn't, for all the hype leading up to it. Sure, it could have hurt both men's careers if the outcome of the secret was as terrible as we were expecting it to be since Rey had molestation references in his idea, but it's still never good to advertise anything only for it to not even happen. That's the infamous bait-and-switch WWE booking for you.

[Angle-plex 0]

And in Chris Benoit's case, what happened to the whole 'putting new superstars over' arguement that everyone uses every 2 months or so? Benoit's in pretty much the same position as Taker, HHH, HBK etc (as looked on by the fans) so shouldn't the same apply to him? And by some of the comments in the GAB thread, evidently Benoit did a good job of doing so.

 

Because the win did nothing for Jordon. All it showed was that he sucks so bad the he can't beat anyone, and that the only way he has a CHANCE to beat anyone is by using weapons and/or interference. Not exactly "putting him over".

 

Eddie's loss wasn't that bad, as long as the keep the story going.

 

Christian's loss was a horrible choice. Booker T is a old guy that SUCKS, and his number of offensive moves seems to decrease weekly. Why they put him over ANYONE at this point is beyond me.

[Silence 0]

Christian's loss was a horrible choice. Booker T is a old guy that SUCKS, and his number of offensive moves seems to decrease weekly. Why they put him over ANYONE at this point is beyond me.

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I agree. Speaking of which, I read a Stevie Ray interview not too long ago that said Booker T wasn't happy lately in WWE, which begs the question: Why put over the wrestler who's unhappy with his job in real life as of late, in addition to wrestling like he doesn't give a damn, and sacrifice the wrestler who's ironically enough more over than he is, is still probably happy with his job, and has a fan following, despite being a heel?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

You're putting way too much thought into this. They weren't thinking "how can we keep Benoit a part of the program down the road and on PPV cards for months at a time." They were thinking, "how can we get him on the card at GAB. Hey, Orlando Jordan needs an opponent." The match wasn't to put over Jordan or to do anything in relation to anyone's standing on the card. It was to fill 15 minutes of PPV time. Period.

 

They've done that with Benoit before, but it's usually with Eddie Guerrero and the purpose is to "put on a good match". They don't need an excuse to put Benoit on the card, so why OJ and why the US title? It's pretty clear that Benoit was supposed to get the gold. It doesn't take much thought to figure that out - pretty much everyone here had Benoit winning that match. But he didn't. So why? Why change it? What could possibly have happened in the past few weeks to change it?

 

Now, let's stop reading into things that the bookers weren't thinking, and look at the PPV from a kayfabe perspective. Undertaker won a match to become the #1 contender for the title. JBL defeated the World champion by DQ. Benoit got pinned in a US Title match. Which one of these doesn't belong in the main event?

 

Has that stopped them before? Benoit as US champion would have taken him out of the main event, now he can move up a level rather easily. The loss itself will be both written off and forgotten by Summerslam time.

 

You can't tell me that just because you want to see a good worker in the title match that the WWE's planning for it to happen. I'm guessing you probably didn't want to see Kevin Nash main event a PPV with HHH or Hogan vs. Vince as a hyped WM match, but they went ahead with those, didn't they?

 

Where have I ever put my own personal feelings in on this? I couldn't care less about what Benoit is doing right now, the WWE has effectively killed my interest in him - the only thing that I would have interest in him doing is a match against Sheldon Benjamin and a match against Brock Lesnar. So if I _wanted_ to think something up for Benoit, why wouldn't I put him in a match with either of those guys. What I am doing here is thinking of reasons for Benoit losing, and the most likely one I am seeing involves him being put in the title spat. They didn't invest any time into OJ/Benoit before, so the feud hasn't been a priority for them. Maybe they'll continue it to Summerslam because JBL/Benoit is being held off because of the Hassan thing. That's pretty likely as well. But to write it off as a "filler match" when there's clearly more to it than that is just ignorant.

 

This leads me to believe that they're going to run Taker/Batista on Smackdown, get it out of the way (maybe ending on an RKO to Taker at the 8:00 mark), and set up JBL/Batista II and Taker/Orton for Summerslam

 

You think they would blow off Taker/Batista on a Smackdown? While I can see your scenario happening, I don't think they would waste that potential match up on "free tv".

[Dangerous A 0]

I agree. Speaking of which, I read a Stevie Ray interview not too long ago that said Booker T wasn't happy lately in WWE, which begs the question: Why put over the wrestler who's unhappy with his job in real life as of late, in addition to wrestling like he doesn't give a damn, and sacrifice the wrestler who's ironically enough more over than he is, is still probably happy with his job, and has a fan following, despite being a heel?

 

 

Because WWE are damn fools.

[Exslade ZX 0]

Christian's loss was a horrible choice. Booker T is a old guy that SUCKS, and his number of offensive moves seems to decrease weekly. Why they put him over ANYONE at this point is beyond me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree. Speaking of which, I read a Stevie Ray interview not too long ago that said Booker T wasn't happy lately in WWE, which begs the question: Why put over the wrestler who's unhappy with his job in real life as of late, in addition to wrestling like he doesn't give a damn, and sacrifice the wrestler who's ironically enough more over than he is, is still probably happy with his job, and has a fan following, despite being a heel?

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So a guy shouldn't lose because he's over? If that's the case, the whole 'Undertaker needs to put more people over' arguement needs to stop now, because let's face it, Taker is still one of the most popular guys WWE has.

 

Maybe the reason he was unhappy because he was in a bullshit feud? Over his wife being raped by Kurt Angle at that? And this is their way of somewhat salvaging that, as well as having his wife with him I guess? And I'm sure (at least Id guess) that Christian's not gonna go him angry, because he lost a match, to Booker T. So they're keeping Booker T happy, as well as Christian if like you said, he's happy with his job.

 

Orlando Jordan isn't a future superstar....he fucking sucks, he's worthless and if anything should be RELEASED rather than holding a major title and 2nd in command of a heel faction. That's why it's sickening that Benoit would job to him. Orlando Jordan is the worst major champion since DAVID FLAIR and at least David was always booked to be a total joke.

You know who else fucking sucks, and is worthless? Heidenreich. But last night he won the freakin tag team titles, with an old washed up dude. But that's not the, surprising part. The surprising part is that the fucker is OVER, and got a 'Heidenreich' chant. And it wasn't even because of Animal either...they were chanting weeks before he showed up.

 

So there's no way you can say a guy, who well...sucks, can't be anything in the WWE. That should be obvious. (Considering to most people here, the better half the WWE roster is shit).

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

RRR, I recall your rant on Hassan: "The guy had a bad match with Benoit! Nathan Jones didn't even have a bad match with Benoit!" How about the useless Orlando Jordan? He had a bad match with Benoit last night, with a horrible 80s finish. There are some finishes that badly need to be retired, and "heel taking off the turnbuckle" is one of them. It's right up there with "manager grabs the face's leg on a suplex" in the pantheon of bad finishes.

 

I see a lot more potential in OJ than Hassan, as I've actually seen good matches from OJ on Velocity and the guy has nice punches. He could be better protected than Hassan. Saying that, I wouldn't give a flying fuck if they fired OJ at anytime.

 

I, personally, like the turnbuckle spot - but not for finishes. For an excuse for blood, it's good. For avoidance spots and the pay off, it's good. But I don't buy it's knockout value. I also like the leg spot, even if it doesn't make much sense to me.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

If they wanted to bump Benoit back to the ME slot, wouldn't they have had his match with Jordan end via CO or something less decisive than an actual pinfall? It's hard to justify including someone in the world title picture when he's fresh off a loss in his quest for a mid-car belt.

 

They had a DQ finish in the main event, so having a similar finish in the US title match would have been redundant. Justified or not, it's easy to ignore a cheap loss in a match with no hype or storyline going into it.

[cabbageboy 0]

I dunno, I don't see shit in either Hassan or Jordan really, haha. They are both bland and terrible in the ring, but Hassan has at least had some mic opportunities. Jordan has shown no discernable skill, moveset, nothing.

[Astro7x 0]

To those of you who hating on Taker taking out 7 guy... that was fucking awesome! If the guy is getting the boot off TV, and the guy that does it is going to be the #1 contender, then that is a great way to end his character and make the #1 Contender look incredibly .

 

If they go with Undertaker/Batista, either on a Smackdown or on Summer Slam, you have a guy that just took out SEVEN guys and ended Hassan's career going up against the guy who beat Triple H THREE times in a row.

 

And with the way the beating was done, it made sense with the way Taker took out the guys one by one. It's not like the 5 masked men lined up and took turns getting choke slams. Taker rolled out of the ring, reveresed a move and the momentum shifted in his favor as the remaining 4 masked men had to go around the ring to get to Taker.

 

I enjoyed that beatdown, but I seem to be in the minority

[SuperJerk 0]

They weren't thinking "how can we keep Benoit a part of the program down the road and on PPV cards for months at a time." They were thinking, "how can we get him on the card at GAB. Hey, Orlando Jordan needs an opponent."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No one should ever think "Orlando Jordan needs an opponent".

[Angle-plex 0]

They weren't thinking "how can we keep Benoit a part of the program down the road and on PPV cards for months at a time." They were thinking, "how can we get him on the card at GAB. Hey, Orlando Jordan needs an opponent."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No one should ever think "Orlando Jordan needs an opponent".

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But he's such a big name that if he was left off the card completely, chaos would ensue.

[SuperJerk 0]

Its that kind of thinking that gets Garrison Cade included on video game rosters.

[cabbageboy 0]

From what little I saw of Garrison Cade, he is BETTER than Orlando. At least he gave me a short haired Barry Windham type vibe, which would be fine if this was 1985 instead of 2005.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

For all you know, Benoit called the finish to the title match. Remember, the last time a turnbuckle ring was used in the finish, it was Benoit putting over Batista in Jan '05 on Raw, in a match that people loved.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

cabbageboy, Cade actually has a full, long head of hair, ala Windham now. He's teaming with a rather terrible Trevor Rhodes though, in "TNT", who have "Bonanza"-corny entrance music.

[naiwf 0]

If they go with Undertaker/Batista, either on a Smackdown or on Summer Slam, you have a guy that just took out SEVEN guys and ended Hassan's career going up against the guy who beat Triple H THREE times in a row.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

. . . but couldn't beat JBL in his SD PPV debut as champ. If anybody needed to look like Superman last night, it was Batista, not 'Taker.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

For all you know, Benoit called the finish to the title match.  Remember, the last time a turnbuckle ring was used in the finish, it was Benoit putting over Batista in Jan '05 on Raw, in a match that people loved.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The Batista match was fully designed to get Batista over and the turnbuckle spot was meant to get over Batistas power (the focus wasn't on the turnbuckle itself, but rather, Batista picking Benoit up). It worked. It doesn't appear that the match was designed to get OJ over.

[SuperJerk 0]

From what little I saw of Garrison Cade, he is BETTER than Orlando.  At least he gave me a short haired Barry Windham type vibe, which would be fine if this was 1985 instead of 2005.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, but that has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

 

My point was that there's no reason to include Cade on a video game roster because nobody cares about him (similar to how Jordan shouldn't be a must-have on a PPV card). I'm not directly comparing Orlando Jordan and Garrison Cade. I'm saying how they both got included in something they shouldn't have.

[Exslade ZX 0]

 

If they go with Undertaker/Batista, either on a Smackdown or on Summer Slam, you have a guy that just took out SEVEN guys and ended Hassan's career going up against the guy who beat Triple H THREE times in a row.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

. . . but couldn't beat JBL in his SD PPV debut as champ. If anybody needed to look like Superman last night, it was Batista, not 'Taker.

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And he didn't? So to speak. Yea, he got the DQ loss, but he was the one standing tall as the PPV went off, Batista bombing people.