Campaign 2008

[gWIL 0]

I don't mean the polygamist offshoots, I just mean the whole Stepford Wife feel you get from them. It's like they're hiding something. Nobody is that well-groomed, industrious, patriotic, friendly, and athletic without harboring some secret double life, which in this case involves buying your way into secret temples and watching strange movies and giving each other secret clubhouse handshakes.

 

I've actually gone quite a few times, it's just like any other religion. If anything, Catholicism is stranger. Far stranger.

[Guest Oedipus Rex]

Don't think I'm letting those Mary-worshipping nutsos off the hook.

[Gary Floyd 0]

Don't think I'm letting those Mary-worshipping nutsos off the hook.

Catholics don't worship Mary, contrary to popular belief. It can be a bit strange though...

 

How do I know? I was raised Catholic.

[snuffbox 0]

That's too bad.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

I would have much rather been raised Catholic than Southern Baptist.

[snuffbox 0]

I'll take neither, thanks. I couldn't even handle the local countryside Wesleyan church as a youngster.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Don't think I'm letting those Mary-worshipping nutsos off the hook.

You've gotta love your mom, man.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

I see what you did there (or is that phrase played out now?).

[Gary Floyd 0]

That's too bad.

Eh, wasn't that bad. Never was molested, hated going to church, never went to a Catholic School (Thank God), quit being Catholic after the whole scandle with the child molesting priests broke out. You know, the usual.

 

The priest at the church I went to knws a guy who worked with Ed Wood, so that automatically makes him cool in my book.

[Gary Floyd 0]

I would have much rather been raised Catholic than Southern Baptist.

I had friends in high school who were Catholic, and on Halloween, they were pestered by Baptist types, telling them they were going to hell for their beliefs and for celebrating Halloween.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

I'm glad I'm Lutheran, I guess.

[SuperJerk 0]

All religions are weird.

Worth repeating.

[snuffbox 0]

Did anti-choice people brainwash Mitt Romney?

[Guest Grossman=Fag]

That sounds like a World's Strongest Man competition name. Like Tarmo Mitt.

[SuperJerk 0]

Flex McLargehuge.

[SuperJerk 0]

Tragedy, experience shaped Romney's abortion views

 

Story Highlights

• Mitt Romney supported abortion rights after sister of brother-in-law die

• Republican presidential hopeful began opposing abortion rights two years ago

• Meeting with stem cell researcher changed view

• Social conservatives question Romney core beliefs

 

BOSTON (AP) -- Republican presidential hopeful Mitt Romney has had an epiphany on abortion -- not once, but twice.

 

The first time was when Romney was a young man in the 1960s and his brother-in-law's sister -- an engaged-to-be-married teen who became pregnant -- died in a botched illegal abortion.

 

Roughly three decades later, while campaigning for the Senate in 1994, Romney described that tragedy as the event that triggered his conclusion that regardless of personal beliefs, abortion should be safe and legal.

 

He repeated that position while running for Massachusetts governor in 2002. In both contests, he attempted to underscore his support for abortion rights as he sought the favor of moderate and liberal voters.

 

Today, as Romney plots a national campaign for president -- he makes a formal announcement on Tuesday -- he is seeking to reassure social conservatives pivotal to winning the GOP nomination that he sincerely opposes abortion. He describes himself as pro-life, argues that Roe v. Wade should be replaced with state abortion regulations, and cites the science he studied amid a legislative debate over embryonic stem cell research as the basis for his position.

 

Meeting with researchers changed view

Romney says his moment of illumination about the immorality of abortion came two years ago during a meeting with an embryonic stem cell researcher.

 

"The comment was made that this really wasn't a moral issue, because the embryos were terminated or destroyed at 14 days," Romney said during a recent campaign stop in Mount Pleasant, South Carolina, in a reprise of other recent explanations of his thinking on abortion.

 

"And it struck me very powerfully at that point, that the Roe v. Wade approach has so cheapened the value of human life that someone could think it's not a moral issue to destroy embryos that have been created solely for the purpose of research, and I said to my chief of staff, and that's been 2 1/2 years ago, I said to her, 'I want to make it very clear that I'm pro-life."'

 

The Harvard University researcher with whom Romney met, Douglas Melton, has disputed Romney's recollection of their November 9, 2004, meeting in the governor's Statehouse office.

 

"Governor Romney has mischaracterized my position; we didn't discuss killing or anything related to it," Melton said in a December statement to The Boston Globe. "I explained my work to him, told him about my deeply held respect for life and explained that my work focuses on improving the lives of those suffering from debilitating diseases."

 

Melton did not respond to an interview request from The Associated Press.

 

A flip flopper?

Romney's acknowledged abortion switch -- and the abandonment of such a deeply personal justification for his initial position -- has some critics asking whether he has a philosophical core.

 

"While Mitt Romney says he's not a multiple-choice candidate, his record shows that he has routinely changed his position on everything from abortion to taxes, making it difficult to know where he stands," said Stacie Paxton, a spokeswoman for the Democratic National Committee.

 

A Romney spokesman conceded the change but said Romney's current position is equally heartfelt and not political in nature.

 

"Governor Romney's personal experience with a family member impacted his view of the subject 15 years ago, but in grappling with the issue as an elected governor, he reconsidered the issue. That brought him to a personal decision and public policy decision where he felt it was important to protect the sanctity of life," said Kevin Madden, Romney's press secretary.

 

Madden added: "Any time a person deals with an important or delicate issue like this, there are moments that provide clarity, and this was clearly an issue where the governor realized he was wrong in the past and is clearly and firmly dedicated to advocating the position of protecting life."

 

Romney, who is Mormon, has long said he personally opposes abortion. The Mormon church opposes abortion with some rare exceptions.

 

Yet during an October 25, 1994, debate with Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., Romney said: "Many, many years ago, I had a dear, close family relative that was very close to me, that passed away from an illegal abortion. It is since that time my mother and my family have been committed to the belief that we can believe as we want, but we will not force our beliefs on others on that matter, and you will not see me wavering on that."

 

A personal connection to abortion

Romney later identified the relative as the teenage sister of his brother-in-law, Loren "Larry" Keenan. He was married to Romney's elder sister, Lynn. Keenan died in 2005.

 

Romney, who would have been in his 20s when the teen died, told reporters after the Senate debate, "I hadn't thought much about" abortion, but that the young woman's death "obviously makes one see that regardless of one's beliefs about choice, that you would hope it would be safe and legal."

 

Romney's other sister, Jane, said in an interview that the teen who died "was a beautiful, talented girl. We all loved" her. She said the teen was engaged when she became pregnant but sought an abortion even though they were illegal at the time.

 

"It was her fiancee" who was the father, Jane Romney Robinson said. "She obviously was upset."

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/02/07/rom...n.ap/index.html

 

This flip-flop might gain him some votes in the primaries, but he'd get eaten alive for it in the general election. Given that we're only 1 SCOTUS appointment away from a Roe V. Wade reversal, both sides are going to make damn sure there's no ambiguity on where someone stands on this.

[snuffbox 0]

If Roe/Wade were to ever be overturned the GOP would go the way of the Whigs. They're way too canny of politicians to ever do more than coddle the religious zealots. Even if there ends up being 9 GOP-nominated Justices it will still not be overturned. It is a disturbing wedge issue and, politically & realistically, little more.

 

Of course, the GOP appears destined to take a HUGE plummet over the decade or so. Maybe they aren't as savvy as I think.

[2GOLD 0]

Romney is off my list of viable candidates.

Didn't care about his Mormon beliefs, I care about this. When you know someone who died personally because of abortions being illegal and you say, "hey! Let's go back to those days!", just because you want to win the bible belt vote then you can bite me.

[snuffbox 0]

The Romney family might just not be cut out for Presidential politics at all.

 

It'll be a pretty bitter feeling for Mitt if Rudy Giuliani ends up with the nomination without bending over on the abortion question.

 

Why is it so unbelievably dificult for a Republican to just say "I absolutely hate abortions but I don't feel that a woman's body is to be regulated by any government"?

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Does anybody here know anything about the Mormon version of US history?

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

This is what I was looking for

 

Mormons grow up with the belief that Native Americans are somehow related to a lost tribe from Israel. That tribe, they are told, came across the ocean about 600 B.C. to America, led by an otherwise unknown Jewish prophet named "Lehi."

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

...Mormon doctrine claims that Lehi's children eventually became two warring factions, which included the good, white Nephites and the bad, brown Lamanites. The Lamanites, eventually killed all the Nephites by 500 A.D. But the bad, brown Laminates continued to live on and are now called Native Americans.

 

The Book of Mormon originally stated that when Lamanites converted they would then become "white and delightsome."

[Guest Oedipus Rex]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7v_V8qSIIo

I love this because sometimes the narrator sounds just like Charles Napier. That, and when God shows up at Mary's place and he's like "sup, bitch." Oh and Moroni looks like Race Bannon from the old Jonny Quest cartoons.

[SuperJerk 0]

Even if there ends up being 9 GOP-nominated Justices it will still not be overturned.

We'll see.

[SuperJerk 0]

Barack Obama is going to formally announce later this morning. His website says their webstream of it will begin at 10:50 am eastern time.

[snuffbox 0]

Good speech.

[SuperJerk 0]

Coverage of this event really illustrated for me the differences between the networks:

 

CNN finally stopped taking about Anna Nicole Smith for 5 minutes to allow Obama's speech to be seen.

MSNBC had Chris Matthews, Howard Fineman, and someone else live in Springfield covering the speech outside and basically treated it like the second coming of Abraham Lincoln.

Fox News interupted some of their financial shows to cover the speech, then immediately went back to the financial shows with "experts" arguing whether Obama's or Mrs. Clinton's economic poicies would be worse for stockholders and the economy.

 

Transcript of Obama's Speech.

[SuperJerk 0]

Mrs. Clinton was apparently asked at a "town hall" meeting in New Hampshire this morning if she would say she would apologize for voting for the war. She said she'd not have voted for the war if she knew then what she knows now, claiming that's what she's been saying all along.

[snuffbox 0]

MSNBC is, by far, the best newschannel for politics.

 

When Vilsack, a successful Governor of the first caucus state, made his announcement speech Fox decided to show Shamu the Whale instead.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Obama pwns Australian Prime Minister John Howard:

 

Howard:

 

If I were running al-Qaida in Iraq, I would put a circle around March 2008 and be praying as many times as possible for a victory, not only for Obama but also for the Democrats.

Obama:

 

I would also note that we have close to 140,000 troops in Iraq, and my understanding is Mr Howard has deployed 1400, so if he is ... to fight the good fight in Iraq, I would suggest that he calls up another 20,000 Australians and sends them to Iraq.

"Otherwise it's just a bunch of empty rhetoric.

 

WTF is this Aussie prick doing poking his nose into American politics anyway?