Campaign 2008

[Firestarter 0]

Welcome to EUmerica.

 

Yeah, god forbid, people, like, make money and prosper.

And benefit from it. Which is the part you "take things away from you for the common good" liberals seem to have a problem with.

 

He's been with Trinity since 1988. Before he started a senate carrer.

Quite. You obviously are unaware of his complete history, when he lost two elections. He only started winning after he affiliated himself explicitly with Trinity.

 

Yeah, and Jerry Fawell also said gays were to blame for 9/11. A preacher said something crazy. Go figure.

Won't argue with any of that.

 

Go to any mosque, synagogue, church or what have you on any weekend and you'll hear some inane shit about a magical creature that made the world in 6 days and then took a rest and turned a man into a bear to eat children. And sometimes, it's really hateful shit - e.g., is some white guye saying tripe such as "Katrina was God's wrath for Cowboys frequently, secretly fond of each other." Here it was a black man saying "America, you deserved 9/11 becuase of your foreign policy." or 'white people tried to kill blacks with aids'

I won't deny that either. But it's far more prevalent in mosques and black churches than it is in white churches. Plain and simple fact. Even blacks don't deny this; they've brushed off Wright's comments by flat-out admitting that they're "typical" of black churches. You're not getting anywhere with this.

 

Points? Are you twelve?

 

...

 

Yes, you are twelve.

No, I'm over thirty, I'm a colonel in the USAF, and I'm an adviser to the SRPC who was invited to be on the Steering Committee for the GOP platform before I told them I'd vote for Hillary before McCain.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

Colonel or Lieutenant Colonel? Decision 2008.

[Atticus Chaos 0]

And benefit from it. Which is the part you "take things away from you for the common good" liberals seem to have a problem with.

 

As opposed to the neocons (I don't even call Bush a conservative anymore) who ensure there's nothing to take away?

 

 

Quite. You obviously are unaware of his complete history, when he lost two elections. He only started winning after he affiliated himself explicitly with Trinity.

 

 

'Explicitly'? In what ways was he more explicit about his membership of the church after his loss in 2000?

 

 

I won't deny that either. But it's far more prevalent in mosques and black churches than it is in white churches.

 

 

I take it you've hung out in mosques, black and white churches on a regular basis? Otherwise how could you have an accurate idea of what goes on?

 

 

Plain and simple fact. Even blacks don't deny this; they've brushed off Wright's comments by flat-out admitting that they're "typical" of black churches. You're not getting anywhere with this.

Who has said this? One black person told you it was 'typical' and you just took their word for it?

 

I don't presume to know what goes on in white churches, black churches, synagogues or mosques. But I know I have heard extremist statments from men who preach in each one of them. Crazy statements are not regulated to black churches. Or mosques. And your claims to know how frequent and often such contraversial statements appear are... dubious to say the least.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Fred Barnes (who's also a hack, though to a lesser extent).

 

How can someone be more of a hack than the guy who wrote this?

 

 

At NRO, try Jonah Goldberg (on occasion)

 

No, thanks.

[Firestarter 0]

As opposed to the neocons (I don't even call Bush a conservative anymore) who ensure there's nothing to take away?

I don't know what this is supposed to mean.

 

'Explicitly'? In what ways was he more explicit about his membership of the church after his loss in 2000?

Well let's see. How about having donated over $20k to it for a start? When he'd never donated anything near that to all charities combined year after year in the past?

 

I take it you've hung out in mosques, black and white churches on a regular basis? Otherwise how could you have an accurate idea of what goes on?

Mosques: No, I'm not a fan of having my breasts cut off, my neck sliced in half, and my torso stamped on to get more blood to pour out of my torso while Mohammedans record the scene on their cell phones to transmit over the internet later.

 

MEMRI, Steven Emerson, Daniel Pipes, Reverend Peterson, Robert Spencer, and Alan Dershowitz do a good enough job of keeping me apprised with original sources and audiotapes so that I don't necessarily have to risk my personal safety in such places.

 

Black churches: all those I've been to have been wonderful, I'll admit that right off the bat. Those comprise 6 in total. People like Reverend Peterson have vastly more experience, however, so I defer to their judgement. Also, please note that it was B.O. Hussein's supporters who immediately stated that Wright's anti-American ravings were "typical" of black churches.

 

Not me.

 

And if that's "typical," then what's "extreme?"

[Firestarter 0]

How can someone be more of a hack than the guy who wrote this?

Read just two sentences into a Kondracke column, for comparison, and you'll understand.

 

No, thanks.

I'll freely admit that Goldberg can be a prat, but on occasion he does write a decent column.

[snuffbox 0]

That's a complete fabrication on your part.

[Firestarter 0]

That's a complete fabrication on your part.

What? That Goldberg can be a prat, or that he can write a decent column on occasion?

 

On the first point I refer you to most things he's written.

 

On the second I can refer you to his articles on Teddy Kennedy's opposition to windmills and critics of Bennett's comments on black abortion rates.

 

Do try to be more precise.

[Atticus Chaos 0]

I don't know what this is supposed to mean.

Basically, you're claiming liberals take all the money. Well, the neocons have insured there's no money to take anyway.

 

 

Well let's see. How about having donated over $20k to it for a start? When he'd never donated anything near that to all charities combined year after year in the past?

 

 

Well, the Obamas actually made more money during that period (book sales, wife moving up career ladder) so naturally he gave more. Really, if the only evidence you can offer me is 'well he gave more money' as proof of some conniving plot to dupe black voters, you'll have to come up with something better, I'm afraid. People tend to give more money to church when they have it.

 

Besides, that wasn't one big $20, 000 check, you know. It was over a period of a few years, if I remember correctly. So, it wasn't one big grand show off gesture.

 

 

 

Mosques: No, I'm not a fan of having my breasts cut off, my neck sliced in half, and my torso stamped on to get more blood to pour out of my torso while Mohammedans record the scene on their cell phones to transmit over the internet later.

 

 

And, thus, you lost your last bit of credibility in this thread.

 

MEMRI, Steven Emerson, Daniel Pipes, Reverend Peterson, Robert Spencer, and Alan Dershowitz do a good enough job of keeping me apprised with original sources and audiotapes so that I don't necessarily have to risk my personal safety in such places.

 

So, you're getting a skewered view with an agenda, and being told what to think, rather than seeing it in person? Does each man claim to be 'fair and balanced' as well?

 

 

Black churches: all those I've been to have been wonderful, I'll admit that right off the bat. Those comprise 6 in total. People like Reverend Peterson have vastly more experience, however, so I defer to their judgement. Also, please note that it was B.O. Hussein's supporters who immediately stated that Wright's anti-American ravings were "typical" of black churches.

 

 

And what did they mean by 'typical'?

 

You take that one word, that could have meant anything and use it to try and explain your point. 'Typical' could mean 'the black preacher yells a lot' or 'typical' in that 'he yells about hell a lot' or 'typical' in that 'he says black people are oppressed.' I doubt Wright was talking like that in church every week. Possibly it had the same tone (blacks are oppressed, the KKK are bad), but nothing as radical as in those three clips. My guess: we've seen the worst of wright. If there was anymore we would have found it. So, really the 9/11 and God Damn America are probably the most extreme. So, there you have it. Youtube and MSNBC play the 2 or 3 dumbest things this guy has ever said and you lap it up and use it to label him as some militant unpatriotic preacher (nevermind that he was actually in the marines and served his country...nope, still unpatriotic and hates his country).

 

Out of interest, if someone played a loop of the 3 or 4 dumbest things you'd ever said, over and over again on tv, would we have a high opinion of you?

 

 

And if that's "typical," then what's "extreme?"

 

Check some of your posts.

[snuffbox 0]

That's a complete fabrication on your part.

What? That Goldberg can be a prat, or that he can write a decent column on occasion?

 

On the first point I refer you to most things he's written.

 

On the second I can refer you to his articles on Teddy Kennedy's opposition to windmills and critics of Bennett's comments on black abortion rates.

 

Do try to be more precise.

 

Refer me to the second, please.

[Firestarter 0]

the neocons have insured there's no money to take anyway

GEORGE W SHRUBMCBURTON LOL

 

...yeah.

 

Well, the Obamas actually made more money during that period (book sales, wife moving up career ladder) so naturally he gave more. Really, if the only evidence you can offer me is 'well he gave more money' as proof of some conniving plot to dupe black voters, you'll have to come up with something better, I'm afraid. People tend to give more money to church when they have it.

Um no. He ALWAYS gave less to charity than the American average until he needed Trinity to make him an "authentic black."

 

Besides, that wasn't one big $20, 000 check, you know. It was over a period of a few years, if I remember correctly. So, it wasn't one big grand show off gesture.

Wrong.

 

Mosques: No, I'm not a fan of having my breasts cut off, my neck sliced in half, and my torso stamped on to get more blood to pour out of my torso while Mohammedans record the scene on their cell phones to transmit over the internet later.

 

 

And, thus, you lost your last bit of credibility in this thread.

Or I would have if you had ever seen the execution of an Iraqi female minister in the middle of a marketplace. Or if you had lived in Pakistan during the first Gulf War. Or if you had had to run to your safehouse when your library imploded due to long-range missile detonations, or if you had had to take your AP calculus classes at the Canadian Embassy instead of the American school you attended, because of bomb threats.

 

Fuck you.

 

So, you're getting a skewered view with an agenda, and being told what to think, rather than seeing it in person? Does each man claim to be 'fair and balanced' as well?

See above. You really want to go there? I haven't seen it in person?

 

Again:

 

Fuck you.

 

 

And what did they mean by 'typical'?

 

They meant what they said they meant. That what Wright said was not unrepresentative of black churches all across the United States. And Wright's congregation backed them up in multiple interviews.

 

Out of interest, if someone played a loop of the 3 or 4 dumbest things you'd ever said, over and over again on tv, would we have a high opinion of you?

Yes you would. Because I used to be in favor of abortion, I used to be against the death penalty, I used to be against gun ownership, I used to be for gay marriage, and I used to be for drug legalization.

 

But then I grew up. So now you don't.

 

And if that's "typical," then what's "extreme?"

 

Check some of your posts.

Check your driving license, boy.

[SuperJerk 0]

No, I'm over thirty, I'm a colonel in the USAF...

Was I the only one sexually aroused by this?

[Firestarter 0]

Was I the only one sexually aroused by this?

[Mr. S£im Citrus 0]

I'd have been very alarmed if she had said under thirty...

[SuperJerk 0]

Carl Bernstein rips Hillary a new one.

[Guest Teal-y Dan]

The other main difference between him and O'Reilly is that he doesn't invite people on his show just to ambush them, talk over them, or have 2-on-one shout-fests between liberals and conservatives.

 

The problem is he goes in the complete opposite direction and just gets super-boring Washington Press Establishment types like Dana Milbank who don't have a single interesting thing to say. Now, I'm no believer in the old "two sides to every story" canard that passes for "balance" on most cable news shows, but I do think that if you're going to claim to be running some kind of high-minded, Murrow-esque enterprise like Olbermann does then you should at least allow for the free exchange of ideas.

Don't forget Rachel Maddow and Gene Robinson.

[Atticus Chaos 0]

Um no. He ALWAYS gave less to charity than the American average until he needed Trinity to make him an "authentic black."

 

 

According to his tax returns, he gave $22, 500 to the church of Trinity in 2006...AFTER he became a senator not before.

 

Prior to that, between 2000 and 2003 he gave between 1.0% and 1.4% of his income to charity. The national average in 3%. You're going to quibble over 2%? Can anyone here say, off the top of their head, the percentage of their national income that went to charity?

 

It's also been explained that the Obama may not have given as much because they had HUGE students loan fees (4 ivy leauge degrees between them) and, you know, two new kids to feed.

 

Wrong.

 

$22, 500 seems like an odd number for a one off, show off cheque, doesn't it? Which leads me to believe it was likely in installements over a period of time.

 

 

.

 

Or I would have if you had ever seen the execution of an Iraqi female minister in the middle of a marketplace. Or if you had lived in Pakistan during the first Gulf War. Or if you had had to run to your safehouse when your library imploded due to long-range missile detonations, or if you had had to take your AP calculus classes at the Canadian Embassy instead of the American school you attended, because of bomb threats.

 

Do you think listing off one bad experience after another is going to justify the hatred of an entire race of people? Well, it doesn't.

 

Most Muslims are just ordinary, harmless people living quiet lives like everybody else. Should all Christians be judged because the KKK have done such evils things? Or the atrocities of the Caste system in India by Hindus?

 

 

 

See above. You really want to go there? I haven't seen it in person?

 

 

Yes, and it's obviously damaged you to the point you cannot think clearly.

 

 

 

They meant what they said they meant. That what Wright said was not unrepresentative of black churches all across the United States. And Wright's congregation backed them up in multiple interviews.

 

Didn't you just say you'd went to 6 black churches and they were wonderful?

 

You have clearly taken what the members of Trinity had to say and distorted it. It's obvious to me they meant Wright church, and other black churches are full of yelling, singing, dancing, and somewhat contraversial things being said...you know, the exact same as most white churches, mosques, synagogues.

 

I'm not entirely sure why you're vilfying Obama and Wright, when you've admitted yourself, Fawell, Hagee and other preachers high profile republicans have associated themselves have said equally shocking things. Why is Wright so much worse than Fawell in your mind? Why is Obama's relationship with Wright so much more sinister than the one Bush had with Fawell. Or Mccain with Hagee?

 

 

 

 

 

Yes you would. Because I used to be in favor of abortion, I used to be against the death penalty, I used to be against gun ownership, I used to be for gay marriage, and I used to be for drug legalization.

 

But then I grew up. So now you don't.

 

And now you're a bigot who's worst nightmare is a black president with a -GASP!- mutli cultural upbrining.

 

The funny thing is, you keep calling him 'B.O Hussien' because you clearly want to imply he's a Muslim and therefore unsuitable to be president. But you now claim he's been brainwashed a Christian paster....you don't see a bit of a problem there? Make up your mind.

 

 

OMG! Obama is actually....deep breath....a secret brainwashed Muslim sent to bring down America but later brainwashed again and converted to Christianity by a black militant preacher who wants to oppress all white people!!!!!!!

[Guest Teal-y Dan]

Is Gogo just trying to cover all his Abrahamic bases, or are there really synagogues that are similar to black churches?

[Atticus Chaos 0]

Is Gogo just trying to cover all his Abrahamic bases, or are there really synagogues that are similar to black churches?

 

 

My point was indeed that contraverisal, outlandish statements from religious higher ups are not relegated to one religion. In that sense, all religions are similar.

 

 

[Guest Teal-y Dan]

You said most Abrahamic places of worship are full of yelling, singing, dancing, and controversy. I've attended Presbyterian, Jewish, Christian Science, Catholic, and Lutheran services (talk about covering the bases), and frankly, I've been missing out on all the fun. The most controversy I've heard in any of those was when a priest started telling everyone to eat Jesus, the most yelling I've heard was when a four-month-old wasn't in the mood to be baptized at the moment, and as for dancing, I didn't get to bust out my sweet moves anywhere!

[Atticus Chaos 0]

You said most Abrahamic places of worship are full of yelling, singing, dancing, and controversy. I've attended Presbyterian, Jewish, Christian Science, Catholic, and Lutheran services, and frankly, I've been missing out on all the fun. The most controversy I've heard in any of those was when a priest started telling everyone to eat Jesus, the most yelling I've heard was when a four-month-old wasn't in the mood to be baptized at the moment, and as for dancing, I didn't get to bust out my sweet moves anywhere!

 

I went to Catholic church and it was boring as hell too. No dancing or anything. I did hear my priest say one or two questionable things though. But I should have worded it better: not all Abrahamic places of worship have singing and dancing, but many do.

 

As for Wright amd Fawell while they're similar, I do think they are different: Fawell exploited homophobia to make himself money. I doubt his anger at homosexuality was anything other than a business move. Wheras Wright...he's an elderly black who's lived though segregation, rodney king, KKK, Katrina...and then you're shocked when he doesn't want to say 'God Bless America?'

 

 

Put it this way: both guys are/were kind of nutty. But at least Wright's anger comes from a righteous place.

[Jorge Gorgeous 0]

Everything ever.

 

 

I think you might actually be mentally unbalanced, Cancer Marney. I wish you were the kind of crazy where you'd show up to a party and say "let's set up a hibachi in a wading pool, listen to some classic rock and see what happens!" way, but you aren't. You're paranoid, racist and angry. It scares me that you're an American, and not in the smarmy, arched eyebrow, cluttered vocabulary way that you would claim that it scares you that I'm an American. I can understand where most people are coming from. I can understand where Palestinians are coming from. I can't understand where you're coming from. Fatwah makes more sense than you. Also, your internet voice sounds like it was RIPPED from the pages of some hackey first year lit major's "The Tudors" fan fiction, which is... super obnoxious, and somehow, only the fourth or fifth most obnoxious thing about your posts. I'm not some blue-washed liberal, I'm interested in aspects of conservatism, but the idea that you're one of the standard bearers of conservatism (even though you seemingly beat up whoever was holding the standard, cut off their breasts, split (?) their throat, and stole that standard) turns me off more than a girl liking Nickelback.

 

 

[EricMM 0]

turns me off more than a girl liking Nickelback

 

Oh snap

[Vyce 0]

Good lord is it wearisome to read Gogo's posts.

[The Thread Killer 0]

Good lord is it wearisome to read Gogo's posts.

Your weariness does not come from a righteous place like his rhetoric does.

[Vyce 0]

Good lord is it wearisome to read Gogo's posts.

Your weariness does not come from a righteous place like his rhetoric does.

 

We hit the righteous indignation quota in this thread a looooooooong time ago.

[At Home 0]

Bruce Springsteen endorsed Obama.

[Guest Teal-y Dan]

Gogo sure learns from the master when it comes to always having an out for his sweeping generalizations.

[Ginger Snaps 0]

Bruce Springsteen endorsed Obama.

 

Hey, that's important news.

[SuperJerk 0]

I FOUND IT!!!!

 

And...big surprise...it so totally NOT what the press, Clinton campaign, or conservative spin-machines made it out to be.

 

You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are going to regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then, that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

credit: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24128975/

 

So, basically he's out of touch because he realizes that any economic prosperity we've seen in the last 25 years has not trickled down to a lot of small towns, and some people are bitter so they turn to other things to explain their frustrations. Is that being elitist, or is that an exact understanding of what's going on? I'll admit it's poorly worded, but had his grammar been perfect, wouldn't that have also been a sign he's "elitist." And is it no coincidence that everytime a conservative talking head mentions this quote, they never give you the quote itself, but ALWAYS mention he was in San Francisco when he said it?