Campaign 2008

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

I FOUND IT!!!!

 

And...big surprise...it so totally NOT what the press, Clinton campaign, or conservative spin-machines made it out to be.

 

You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are going to regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then, that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

credit: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24128975/

 

So, basically he's out of touch because he realizes that any economic prosperity we've seen in the last 25 years has not trickled down to a lot of small towns, and some people are bitter so they turn to other things to explain their frustrations. Is that being elitist, or is that an exact understanding of what's going on? I'll admit it's poorly worded, but had his grammar been perfect, wouldn't that have also been a sign he's "elitist." And is it no coincidence that everytime a conservative talking head mentions this quote, they never give you the quote itself, but ALWAYS mention he was in San Francisco when he said it?

I'm a bit uninformed so maybe you can help me. Was this another one of those sweeping generalizations I keep hearing about? I was almost sure there was an outcry for a stronger conservative voice on this board but haven't heard much in the way of counter-arguments thus far.

 

Soooo, Obama is being slammed by the right over this. Bah, it's just a fart in a car. Just roll down the windows... everybody else will.

 

 

No worries.

[SuperJerk 0]

I FOUND IT!!!!

 

And...big surprise...it so totally NOT what the press, Clinton campaign, or conservative spin-machines made it out to be.

 

You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are going to regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then, that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

credit: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24128975/

 

So, basically he's out of touch because he realizes that any economic prosperity we've seen in the last 25 years has not trickled down to a lot of small towns, and some people are bitter so they turn to other things to explain their frustrations. Is that being elitist, or is that an exact understanding of what's going on? I'll admit it's poorly worded, but had his grammar been perfect, wouldn't that have also been a sign he's "elitist." And is it no coincidence that everytime a conservative talking head mentions this quote, they never give you the quote itself, but ALWAYS mention he was in San Francisco when he said it?

I'm a bit uninformed so maybe you can help me. Was this another one of those sweeping generalizations I keep hearing about? I was almost sure there was an outcry for a stronger conservative voice on this board but haven't heard much in the way of counter-arguments thus far.

 

Soooo, Obama is being slammed by the right over this. Bah, it's just a fart in a car. Just roll down the windows... everybody else will.

 

 

No worries.

 

Do a search on "bittergate" (yes, they're really calling it that) at Google News and see how many thousand entries pop up. It has basically been the big campaign story since last weekend.

[At Home 0]

I really don't understand why this is such a big issue. I've felt that way for years. So what if it's not politically advantageous to say it. He said it, and there are several shades of truth to it.

 

In other news:

Hillary Rodham Clinton said emphatically Wednesday night that Barack Obama can win the White House this fall, undercutting her efforts to deny him the Democratic presidential nomination by suggesting he would lead the party to defeat.

 

"Yes, yes, yes," she said when pressed about Obama's electability during a campaign debate six days before the Pennsylvania primary.

 

 

[Lil' Bitch 0]

I agree with what Obama said, but he could've worded it a lot better so he wouldn't have pissed off so many people. He very well could've cost himself the victory in Pennsylvania because of those remarks in San Francisco. He'll definitely win North Carolina. I think whoever wins Indiana will be the Dem nominee.

 

Also, Mitt Romney said on Fox News that he won't be McCain's running mate (which would've been good since McCain admitted he's not strong in the economics area while Mitt is) so it'll be interesting to see who John picks? Huckabee? Somebody nobody heard of?

[Firestarter 0]

According to his tax returns, he gave $22, 500 to the church of Trinity in 2006...AFTER he became a senator not before.

Your point would be?

 

Prior to that, between 2000 and 2003 he gave between 1.0% and 1.4% of his income to charity. The national average in 3%. You're going to quibble over 2%? Can anyone here say, off the top of their head, the percentage of their national income that went to charity?

I can. 25%.

 

Do you think listing off one bad experience after another is going to justify the hatred of an entire race of people? Well, it doesn't.

 

Most Muslims are just ordinary, harmless people living quiet lives like everybody else.

Please explain to me how Mohammedans can in any way be considered a "race."

 

It's also been explained that the Obama may not have given as much because they had HUGE students loan fees (4 ivy leauge degrees between them) and, you know, two new kids to feed.

Cry me a river.

 

Didn't you just say you'd went to 6 black churches and they were wonderful?

I obviously went to unrepresentative black churches, as B.O. Hussein's campaign has gone to great lengths to argue that Wright's church is representative, and his anti-American, anti-Semitic, anti-white remarks are completely unremarkable.

 

You have clearly taken what the members of Trinity had to say and distorted it.

I think Wright screaming "GOD DAMN AMERICA" is pretty unequivocal.

 

You don't have to "distort" that.

 

Why is Wright so much worse than Fawell in your mind? Why is Obama's relationship with Wright so much more sinister than the one Bush had with Fawell. Or Mccain with Hagee?

McCain did not have a 20 year-long friendship with Hagee. Neither Hagee nor Falwell baptized President Bush's or John McCain's children. Neither one married either of them to their wives. Neither one dedicated their houses.

 

If you're going to equate Hagee's (unsolicited) endorsement of McCain to B.O. Hussein's involvement with Wright, then for your next trick, I'd like to see you attack B.O. Hussein for the (unsolicited) endorsement he just received from Hamas.

 

Jump, Fido!

 

(ctd)

[At Home 0]

I think whoever wins Indiana will be the Dem nominee.

 

You're kind of ignoring the fact that Obama has an insurmountable pledged delegate lead, and also leads in the popular vote. Clinton is clinging on to the fringes of a failing campaign.

[Firestarter 0]

And now you're a bigot who's worst nightmare is a black president with a -GASP!- mutli cultural upbrining.

No. No, I'm a rational American whose worst nightmare is a brainless twit with a chance to gain the most powerful office in the world.

 

Okay, check that. Maybe not the worst. But close to it.

 

The funny thing is, you keep calling him 'B.O Hussien' because you clearly want to imply he's a Muslim and therefore unsuitable to be president.

No, I call him that to mock him. I don't think he's a Mohammedan in Christian clothing. I think that he is, essentially, a secularist.

 

But you now claim he's been brainwashed a Christian paster....you don't see a bit of a problem there?

Wright is no Christian.

 

Make up your mind.

I have. Anything but B.O. Hussein.

 

OMG! Obama is actually....deep breath....a secret brainwashed Muslim sent to bring down America but later brainwashed again and converted to Christianity by a black militant preacher who wants to oppress all white people!!!!!!!

You want to talk contradictions? Explain this:

 

The overarching theme of Obama's speeches, and of his campaign, is that America is a fetid sewer whose most glorious days lie just ahead, thanks to the endless ranks of pathetic losers who make it a beacon of hope to all mankind.

- link

 

Anyway, no. I think he's a snooty, fork-tongued, smarmy, slimy, pompous, unintellectual, and incredibly overrated jackass who only got as far as he did in life because guilty white people kowtowed to him because of the color of his skin. And he's going to get blown out of the water because of that.

[Firestarter 0]

I think whoever wins Indiana will be the Dem nominee.

 

You're kind of ignoring the fact that Obama has an insurmountable pledged delegate lead, and also leads in the popular vote. Clinton is clinging on to the fringes of a failing campaign.

Um no. Count FL and MI and my brave little Hillary leads in the popular. As for the pledged lead, B.O. Hussein can't win without the supers either.

[At Home 0]

Um no. Count FL and MI and my brave little Hillary leads in the popular. As for the pledged lead, B.O. Hussein can't win without the supers either.

 

Obama wasn't even on the ballot in MI, not sure about FL. Counting those delegates would be just unfairly and illegally handing over a big group of pledged delegates and popular votes to Hillary. Not to mention that was early in the game, before the Obama momentum really started going. I'm not saying that he'd win there, but it would be different, that is for sure. They did, however, break DNC laws and are having to pay the consequence for that.

 

There are a lot of supers to be spoken for, and Obama picks up supers at a rate of something like 11:1 over Hillary.

[Firestarter 0]

You're right on both counts. But I'm just saying it's silly to call Hillary's campaign dead in the water because she can't win the pledged delegates she needs to get the nomination - well, B.O. Hussein can't either. And the popular vote is at the very least a toss-up.

[Firestarter 0]

Can anyone here say, off the top of their head, the percentage of their national income that went to charity?

I can. 25%.

To clarify: that would be after taxes. And no, I don't take any exemptions.

[SamoaRowe 0]

Anyway, no. I think he's a snooty, fork-tongued, smarmy, slimy, pompous, unintellectual, and incredibly overrated jackass who only got as far as he did in life because guilty white people kowtowed to him because of the color of his skin. And he's going to get blown out of the water because of that.

 

You heard it here first, folks! Black people are only successful when white people LET them. Thanks for clearing that up for us.

 

Nothing like some good old fashioned racism to wake me up in the morning. Seriously, don't ever ban Marney, she's better than coffee.

 

[Guest Teal-y Dan]

Anyway, no. I think he's a snooty, fork-tongued, smarmy, slimy, pompous, unintellectual, and incredibly overrated jackass who only got as far as he did in life because guilty white people kowtowed to him because of the color of his skin. And he's going to get blown out of the water because of that.

 

You heard it here first, folks! Black people are only successful when white people LET them. Thanks for clearing that up for us.

That isn't what she said.

[C Dubya 04 0]

The one thing from the debate that really bothered me was both Hillary and Barack acted like raising the Social Security age was an impossible or unholy thing to do. Why is this? Just to pander to old voters? Why shouldn't we raise the social security age when people are now living probably 15 years longer than they were when it was first instituted.

 

Also, fuck that noise for raising the cap for social security tax. If you do that, I better be getting more back at the end of the day. If you raise the cap, but still only have people eligible to collect the maximum amount, regardless of what they put it, it's just another welfare program. I don't see why I should be responsible for paying for other people's retirements.

[Guest Teal-y Dan]

Bruce Springsteen endorsed Obama.

 

Hey, that's important news.

Springsteen hasn't had a great album since he started officially endorsing Democrats. First time was Mondale in '84, right? Nebraska came out in '81. Oh well.

 

Also, why is Y2Jerk acting like he unearthed the Dead Sea Scrolls here? That's the same quotation I've seen floating around everywhere else when the whole issue is brought up. I think it was pretty ill-advised to write off rural Pennsylvanians as gun-toting homophobic lost souls, but he was able to smooth-talk his way out of it again, so whatevsies.

 

Is that being elitist, or is that an exact understanding of what's going on?

It's closer to being elitist than it is an exact understanding of what's going on. "My factory job sucks, ergo, I love guns and hate gays." Maybe in SOME cases, but across the board, everyone in the depressed industrial Midwest thinks this way? Really?

[NoCalMike 0]

And now you're a bigot who's worst nightmare is a black president with a -GASP!- mutli cultural upbrining.

No. No, I'm a rational American whose worst nightmare is a brainless twit with a chance to gain the most powerful office in the world.

 

It's more then just a nightmare, it actually happened in 2000 and again in 2004.

 

[EricMM 0]

I assure you, Marney, if I was making nearly what you make "after taxes" that I would be donating a fair to sizable portion of it to good causes.

 

Sadly my $30k doesn't stretch as far

[Firestarter 0]

 

Despite our disagreements, I know you're a good person and I believe that, Eric.

[The Niggardly King 0]

That must be the alcohol talking, don't be trusting them Ginger people my dear.

[NoCalMike 0]

Also, fuck that noise for raising the cap for social security tax. If you do that, I better be getting more back at the end of the day. If you raise the cap, but still only have people eligible to collect the maximum amount, regardless of what they put it, it's just another welfare program. I don't see why I should be responsible for paying for other people's retirements.

 

 

How 'bout the government stops borrowing from the social security fund to pay for other things?

[Firestarter 0]

That must be the alcohol talking, don't be trusting them Ginger people my dear.

 

DAYWALKER! <points at Eric>

[C Dubya 04 0]

Also, fuck that noise for raising the cap for social security tax. If you do that, I better be getting more back at the end of the day. If you raise the cap, but still only have people eligible to collect the maximum amount, regardless of what they put it, it's just another welfare program. I don't see why I should be responsible for paying for other people's retirements.

 

 

How 'bout the government stops borrowing from the social security fund to pay for other things?

 

That needs to happen.

[Firestarter 0]

Hello, reality calling. There is no "social security fund."

[EricMM 0]

Goddamnit.

 

I'm not THAT ginger-y!

 

I have almost no freckles!

 

And...

 

I'm not that much of a daywalker. I fry in the sun...

[SamoaRowe 0]

Anyway, no. I think he's a snooty, fork-tongued, smarmy, slimy, pompous, unintellectual, and incredibly overrated jackass who only got as far as he did in life because guilty white people kowtowed to him because of the color of his skin. And he's going to get blown out of the water because of that.

 

You heard it here first, folks! Black people are only successful when white people LET them. Thanks for clearing that up for us.

That isn't what she said.

 

Anyway, no. I think he's a snooty, fork-tongued, smarmy, slimy, pompous, unintellectual, and incredibly overrated jackass who only got as far as he did in life because guilty white people kowtowed to him because of the color of his skin. And he's going to get blown out of the water because of that.

 

 

 

[Guest]

But how does that equate to

 

Black people are only successful when white people LET them.

 

sorry, it doesn't. It only equates to, Barack Obama is successful because white people let him.

[SamoaRowe 0]

Okay, that's the literal text, I just interpreted it differently.

 

And it's not as if your interpretation doesn't make it any less racist.

[Guest]

If that's what you feel...

[Firestarter 0]

Okay, that's the literal text, I just interpreted it differently.

 

And it's not as if your interpretation doesn't make it any less racist.

It's not racist at all, except in reverse. Geraldine Ferraro was absolutely right when she said that B.O. Hussein would never have got as far as he had if he'd been a white man. B.O. Hussein is, without regard to his race, an airhead. He has succeeded so far primarily because voting for him makes white people feel good.

 

Watch the Shelby Steele interviews.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

George W. Bush would never have been president if he wasn't white. Neither would presidents Washington-Clinton.