Is Shawn Michaels this generation's Ric Flair?

[World's Worst Man 0]

Benoit's better than DK, although DK was much more innovative.

 

Michaels is the heir to Ric Flair, pretty easily.  Michaels is a little better in the ring and is below Flair on the mic.  Flair is always godly on the mic and Michaels only is in flashes (usually when he's the prick heel character).

 

Bret Hart is very overrated as a wrestler just because Canadians like him.  He's pretty boring and I think doing the same five moves at the end of his matches is as business-exposing as the Flair Flip and Flop or Michaels nipping up or overselling.

 

What about finishing moves, are they business-exposing too? Because Bret's "5 moves of doom" was essentially like a big, long finishing move. Is Samoa Joe's chimera-plex business exposing? Because that's more or less the same idea, doing the same sequence of moves every time.

 

Comparing puro to US matches is comparing apples to oranges.  I could care less how good of a match Jumbo and Misawa had in 1992 or how good All Japan was and how that somehow makes what guys are doing in the states (where they couldn't work that style) 13 years later worse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Maybe you should care, because then you'd realize exactly why that promotion makes everyone else seem worse in comparison. And really, so what if it does? People aren't worrying if current wrestling holds up to AJPW circa 1993. If a match is great, it's great. Just because it's not the "best ever~!" doesn't make it less enjoyable. I mean hell, I could look at ROH in 2004, which probably murders any year in WWE history and any other promotion in 2004. Doesn't mean that ROH in 2004 was the be-all end-all of great wrestling, nor does it mean that I didn't really dig other stuff from 2004.

 

I also fail to see how they aren't comparable. It's simply a matter of different styles of wrestling.

[KTID 0]

Comparing puro to US matches is comparing apples to oranges.  I could care less how good of a match Jumbo and Misawa had in 1992 or how good All Japan was and how that somehow makes what guys are doing in the states (where they couldn't work that style) 13 years later worse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Translation: I've never seen a wrestling match outside of WWE.

[Guest *KNK*]

Why is doing the same 5 moves all THAT bad?  It's his traditional setup stuff for the Sharpshooter.  It at least has a point in the context of a match, unlike the Flair Flip (which is still fun).  Every wrestler has his trademark spots so it's pointless to criticize that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm still trying to work out how Bret Hart is overrated because Canadians like him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I like Bret Hart and I am from Ohio. You don't get more Canadian then that.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Why is doing the same 5 moves all THAT bad?  It's his traditional setup stuff for the Sharpshooter.  It at least has a point in the context of a match, unlike the Flair Flip (which is still fun).  Every wrestler has his trademark spots so it's pointless to criticize that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm still trying to work out how Bret Hart is overrated because Canadians like him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I like Bret Hart and I am from Ohio. You don't get more Canadian then that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's a Canuck invasion.

[CanadianChick 0]

You know, that's sort of like saying the only reason why HBK is overrated are because of those damn Texans.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

You know, that's sort of like saying the only reason why HBK is overrated are because of those damn Texans.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And neither statement makes any kind of sense.

[Guest *KNK*]

You know, that's sort of like saying the only reason why HBK is overrated are because of those damn Texans.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And neither statement makes any kind of sense.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Has anything in this thread made sense?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

You know, that's sort of like saying the only reason why HBK is overrated are because of those damn Texans.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And neither statement makes any kind of sense.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Has anything in this thread made sense?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Only in Bizarro World.

[CanadianChick 0]

No, no it doesn't. People in general can distinguish popular wrestlers from good wrestlers. I actually can't see why people don't think Bret's a good wrestler. He does the little things so freaking good. His bumping is great. The way he fights with desperation in big match situations are a thing of beauty.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I actually can't see why people don't think Bret's a good wrestler. He does the little things so freaking good. His bumping is great. The way he fights with desperation in big match situations are a thing of beauty.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Some people like the shiny wrapping covering the box. Some people actually take the time to look inside the box.

[CanadianChick 0]

I admit, I like the shiny wrapping too, but hey, I have a short attention span. I can watch both Michaels and Hart and love the matches. Of course, I was quite young when both were around and in total mark mode, so yeah, I have fond memories of both.

 

I guess it really just depends what mood you're in. If I want to think in a match and look for nice, subtle hints at storytelling, I'll watch a Bret match. If I want to simply be entertained and have the story forced upon me, I'll watch a HBK match.

[Guest JoeJoe]

You don't think those are arguable? Please list your MOTYs for those years. I know PWI voters at the time had him win in 93/94/96/97

Fuck PWI. Tthey think their carrying out some moral durty in favor of kayfabe. Makes Apters Mags look like the real thing.

 

I think Shawn won best overall wrestler of the year four years straight from 94-97 by RSPW. He also won in Torch awards, but never the WON, staying one step behind his Japanese counterparts on atleast two occassions (95/96, I think).

 

Well, in WWE...

 

93 - Bret Vs. Hennig - KOTR

94 - Bret Vs. Owen - WM

95 - Diesel Vs. Bret - SurSer

96 - Bret Vs. Austin - SurSer

97 - Bret Vs. Austin - WM

04 - Eddie Vs. JBL - JD and Eddie Vs. Brock - NWO

05 - Eddie Vs. Rey - SD!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is just too nonsensical to even address. I would suggest going through the years you mentioned and comparing matches, then tell me if HBK was involved in the MOTYs in each of those years.

92 - Bret Hart

93 - Jannety, their RAW matches

94 - Ramone

95 - Ramone, Jarret

96 - Owen, Bret, Bulldog, Nash, Foley

97 - Taker (times 2), Austin

02 - HHH

03 - Jericho, HHH

04 - HHH-Benoit, Benoit

05 - Angle (times 2), Benjamin

 

These are all EASILY arguable MOTYs for the respective years they took place in. Michaels also also arguably had the best match at every Mania he's performed at since '93.

 

Notice me saying "arguably" then and now? Its because I'm not stupid enough like you to just throw my opinions at others like its all facts. And I'm not dumb enough to enlist JBL-Eddie or every Hennig-Hart "good match" encounter as a MOTY.

[Dark Age 0]

But they just AREN'T, so stop saying they are. It's not opinion you fool. Could I get away with saying Viscera is better than Chris Benoit because it's my opinion? No, so stop hiding behind your silly little opinion.

[Guest JoeJoe]

But they just AREN'T, so stop saying they are. It's not opinion you fool. Could I get away with saying Viscera is better than Chris Benoit because it's my opinion? No, so stop hiding behind your silly little opinion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, so I WAS delaing with a 8 yr old all along. *hits head against wall*

[Dark Age 0]

Yes, you're right! Well done JustJoe, you win! Congrats.

[Dark Age 0]

Yeah, I thought you had done this EXACT SAME THREAD before...

 

http://forums.thesmartmarks.com/index.php?...topic=70676&hl=

 

So it's Shawn now, not Angle?

[The Mandarin 0]

Fuck PWI. Tthey think their carrying out some moral durty in favor of kayfabe. Makes Apters Mags look like the real thing.

 

Wait, what?

[Guest JoeJoe]

Yeah, I thought you had done this EXACT SAME THREAD before...

 

http://forums.thesmartmarks.com/index.php?...topic=70676&hl=

 

So it's Shawn now, not Angle?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Erase the recent Hogan feud from history and the resurgence of promo GOD Shawn, and I wouldn't have made this thread. Seriously, Angle and Michales are the only ones even comparable to Flair in terms of the total pacakage. Stinko Steve Austin..is not.

IMO

[KTID 0]

That just shows you have no clue what your talking about.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Comparing puro to US matches is comparing apples to oranges.  I could care less how good of a match Jumbo and Misawa had in 1992 or how good All Japan was and how that somehow makes what guys are doing in the states (where they couldn't work that style) 13 years later worse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Translation: I've never seen a wrestling match outside of WWE.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Yeah, I thought you had done this EXACT SAME THREAD before...

 

http://forums.thesmartmarks.com/index.php?...topic=70676&hl=

 

So it's Shawn now, not Angle?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Erase the recent Hogan feud from history and the resurgence of promo GOD Shawn, and I wouldn't have made this thread. Seriously, Angle and Michales are the only ones even comparable to Flair in terms of the total pacakage. Stinko Steve Austin..is not.

IMO

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Did you even watch Austin prior to the WWF or do you just think his career started in 1996?

[cabbageboy 0]

Austin in WCW was like watching a wrestler try to find himself as a performer. Seeing this stuff now is surreal, Austin with the blond hair and the goofy Hawaiian trunks. Some of his matches with Steamboat were good, I liked some of his Dangerous Alliance work (particularly the War Games), though I have to admit my memory of the Hollywood Blondes is a bit sketchy.

 

That said, Austin was soooo not over in WCW. Watch any of the matches where he was US champ or TV champ. He had zero heat, none, nada. I mean really, when he jobbed the US title to Duggan in 27 seconds and got buried did anyone care at the time?

[Dark Age 0]

Yeah, I thought you had done this EXACT SAME THREAD before...

 

http://forums.thesmartmarks.com/index.php?...topic=70676&hl=

 

So it's Shawn now, not Angle?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Erase the recent Hogan feud from history and the resurgence of promo GOD Shawn, and I wouldn't have made this thread. Seriously, Angle and Michales are the only ones even comparable to Flair in terms of the total pacakage. Stinko Steve Austin..is not.

IMO

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sure thing!

[Guest Rrrsh]

blah blah blah blah blah

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Ignore list grows.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

God, its fuck-wits like you that make the IWC viewed as snobs infront of keyboards instead of real wrestling fans.

 

Your such a pathetic loser.

[KTID 0]

blah blah blah blah blah

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Ignore list grows.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

blah blah blah blah blah

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's getting awfully repetitive in here.

[chaosrage 0]

Haha, why does HTQ put everyone that proves him wrong on ignore? It's not Ray's fault that you had absolutely no clue what you were talking about. Blame yourself for being ignorant.

[KTID 0]

Haha, why does HTQ put everyone that proves him wrong on ignore?  It's not Ray's fault that you had absolutely no clue what you were talking about.  Blame yourself for being ignorant.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, he puts everyone who repeats the same nonsense in every post on ignore. And he does know what he's talking about. The only ones being ignorant are those claiming that HBK is some kind of workrate god and a ratings draw, and calling everyone who argues with them a "HBK hater", or worse bringing up Bret Hart in every post even though he has absolutely shit all to do with the argument.

[Guest Zarock]

Y'know, when you're talking to the guy DIRECTLY ABOVE YOU, it isn't necessary to quote them. Not directed at you personally, but it gets annoying to wade through a thread when it turns into a giant snowball of quotes.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Haha, why does HTQ put everyone that proves him wrong on ignore?  It's not Ray's fault that you had absolutely no clue what you were talking about.  Blame yourself for being ignorant.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, he puts everyone who repeats the same nonsense in every post on ignore. And he does know what he's talking about. The only ones being ignorant are those claiming that HBK is some kind of workrate god and a ratings draw, and calling everyone who argues with them a "HBK hater", or worse bringing up Bret Hart in every post even though he has absolutely shit all to do with the argument.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

MQ has it right. It gets tiresome having to wade through drivel written by clueless people such as you chaos. You can only read the ramblings of people who don't know what they are talking and whose arguments are specious at best for so long before you just get sick of it and don’t want to waste the time on them anymore.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

MQ has it right. It gets tiresome having to wade through drivel written by clueless people such as you chaos. You can only read the ramblings of people who don't know what they are talking and whose arguments are specious at best for so long before you just get sick of it and don’t want to waste the time on them anymore.

 

Exactly. There comes a point where you are so far off that there is no helping you.

[bob_barron 0]

Ray is one of the more intelligent posters here though, even though I disagree with him a lot and find that he can be a prick sometimes. I mean just b/c he made one pro-HBK post doesn't make him an idiot.