Gary Floyd 0 Report post Posted September 6, 2005 Thoughts on tonights Raw The Good The announcing continues to get better. Cade-Murdoch. Decent Debut. Flairs promo. The Bad Everything else. Worst Raw in ages. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisMWaters 0 Report post Posted September 6, 2005 MALENKO ON TV! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Heh, I just realized that if you take the W out of your username and add a space and another S, you get Chris Masters. I'm CBright7831, and this is my pointless post of the day. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ...Do NOT curse me like that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted September 6, 2005 Flair needs to stop grabbing male crotches. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fisticuffs 0 Report post Posted September 6, 2005 At least the Master Lock Challenge is building up to a PPV match, unlike Goldberg taking the "5 Minute White Boy Challenge." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
World's Worst Man 0 Report post Posted September 6, 2005 So how long does it take for WWE to realize Masters and Conway won't ever be over the way they are right now? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hunter's Torn Quad 0 Report post Posted September 6, 2005 So how long does it take for WWE to realize Masters and Conway won't ever be over the way they are right now? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think we'll find out their feelings over Masters at Unforgiven. If Shawn wins clean, then the superpush is over. If Masters wins, we get another eight months of heatless segments involving the jacked up stiff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spman 0 Report post Posted September 6, 2005 I don't nescessarily disagree with WWE pushing guys like Conway and Masters, even if they don't get heat, the bottom line is, at least they're pushign new and different talent. The first step is establishing guys legitimacy in the ring by giving them wins, you can work on the crowd reaction later. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SuperJerk 0 Report post Posted September 6, 2005 From the sound of things, my decision to drop Raw still seems like a good one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dr. Zaius 0 Report post Posted September 6, 2005 (edited) I don't nescessarily disagree with WWE pushing guys like Conway and Masters, even if they don't get heat, the bottom line is, at least they're pushign new and different talent. The first step is establishing guys legitimacy in the ring by giving them wins, you can work on the crowd reaction later. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The sad part is that Conway is actually a talented worker, but they keep sticking him with poorly conceived gimmicks that hurt any credibility his talent might gain him. He is the new Val Venis. Edited September 6, 2005 by Scorpius Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricMM 0 Report post Posted September 6, 2005 pushing new talent only works if they're any good to begin with. not JUST huge. Vince needs to realize this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EdwardKnoxII 0 Report post Posted September 6, 2005 I live only a half an hour from Nashville and with the way things are I could have gotten tickets to the show for next to nothing and I STILL didn't want to see this show live. And from what I saw on TV I didn't miss much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Golgo 13 0 Report post Posted September 6, 2005 I think they could be the most solid "real" tag team that we've had in quite some time. It's too bad that they can't just let them be a team, and they are having them say what they do in their promos. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> C'mon. When was the last time anyone, let alone a tag team, had such build-up with vignettes and a chance to show off their characters before a TV debut. It's better than just throwing them on TV blind (like the Heart Throbs). Aside from the outlandish Murdoch with the Deliverance hick stereotype stuff, we got what they were really about, so the vignettes did their job. More debutees desperately need such treatment, as exaggerated as it is, because what WWE does otherwise usually doesn't cut it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'd say the problem is that for all the promos they did, that personality didn't come through in the match at all. Murdoch especially wasn't wrestling like a guy with his personality should. Some goof made a quip about it being good that they aren't Stan Hansen clones. Being a Stan Hansen clone would actually make sense given the characters they portrayed in the promos, rather than them wrestling like every other WWE wrestler on the roster. Murdoch should be yelling around at the ref, do some scrappy brawling with the opponents, while Cade plays the smooth guy who ends up looking like a clown. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think they could be the most solid "real" tag team that we've had in quite some time. It's too bad that they can't just let them be a team, and they are having them say what they do in their promos. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> C'mon. When was the last time anyone, let alone a tag team, had such build-up with vignettes and a chance to show off their characters before a TV debut. It's better than just throwing them on TV blind (like the Heart Throbs). Aside from the outlandish Murdoch with the Deliverance hick stereotype stuff, we got what they were really about, so the vignettes did their job. More debutees desperately need such treatment, as exaggerated as it is, because what WWE does otherwise usually doesn't cut it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'd say the problem is that for all the promos they did, that personality didn't come through in the match at all. Murdoch especially wasn't wrestling like a guy with his personality should. Some goof made a quip about it being good that they aren't Stan Hansen clones. Being a Stan Hansen clone would actually make sense given the characters they portrayed in the promos, rather than them wrestling like every other WWE wrestler on the roster. Murdoch should be yelling around at the ref, do some scrappy brawling with the opponents, while Cade plays the smooth guy who ends up looking like a clown. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Granted, but I don't think it was a complete write off either. He didn't excel, but Murdoch did enough to wrestle like, well, a complete backwoods hick with presumably little to no training and no knowledge of fancy maneuvers. How much of that was intentional, considering the Irish whip segment with Hurricane, I don't know. Like you said, though, everyone else already performs that way. Either way, his look is an integral part of things. Even if his wrestling didn't hold up, you can still believe he's a total redneck straight out of Appalachia or some trailer park. His expressions and especially that frown is fucking spot on. I mean, I loved when he totally freaked at the beginning of the match ("Oh, GOD!") when Hurricane did his hero stance. Admittedly, this stuff is what I like about him. He should've spat some juice at one of the Heroes, though. I was waiting for it and it never happened. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricMM 0 Report post Posted September 6, 2005 the freakout was the highlight of the match. Thats... not a good thing. And whats with the crappy finishers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Fook Report post Posted September 6, 2005 Raw Thoughts: - Raw was less shitty than ususal tonight, but that's like saying a kick in the face is better than one in the balls. - Did Shelton piss in Vince's coffee or something? What has he done to deserve this awful case of jobberitis? - Chavo is awful as a wannabe white racist. That said though, his entrance is nothing short of brilliant. - Angle/Eugene was exactly what it needed to be: an absolute squash. Now get Eugene off my TV. - Cena still sucks, but he's beating Angle at Unforgiven. And what's with the red, white, and blue mouthguard? - Cade and Murdoch = Smoking Guns 2K5. Was it just me or was Murdoch completely blown up for the last couple of minutes of this match? - Ashley = Jackie Gayda 2K5. Please come back Trish. We need you. - There's no way Hardy's winning that steel cage match. He's such a jobber at this point I'm surprised he's still getting some reactions. I liked Snitsky doing what no heel does and that's be smart by still hitting Matt with the bell after Big Show came out and then hightailing it out of harm's way. - The highlight of HBK trying to break the Masterlock: DEAN MALENKO MAKES AN APPEARANCE! About time someone thought of kicking Masters low too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
World's Worst Man 0 Report post Posted September 6, 2005 He should've spat some juice at one of the Heroes, though. I was waiting for it and it never happened. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I was thinking the same thing actually, but I never really expected it just because it'd be too close to Carlito's thing. Overall, Rhodes had the facial expressions down, that's for sure. But I'd still love to see some wild brawling from him, and maybe a gimmick where Cade has to hold him back from getting DQed as he is wailing the shit out of his opponent. Just something to really show that Rhodes is a wild, drunk redneck barfighter while Cade is the smooth, but goofy partner who has to keep him in check. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DMann2003 0 Report post Posted September 6, 2005 pushing new talent only works if they're any good to begin with. not JUST huge. Vince needs to realize this. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Remmember when Rocky debuted in '96, everyone hated him and note just for his bland character, he was a green wrestler with basic moves in the ring. Not saying that Masters could be the next Rock, but we can't expect every guy these days to break out of the gate and take the audience by storm. Esecially with the restrictive nature of how WWE lays out matches. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricMM 0 Report post Posted September 6, 2005 I just hate the obvious WWE green talent. The difference between an incoming Paul London and an incoming Bautista is just so obvious. One of them has an actual moveset. Ditto for promo abilities. I just find that when people work indys they tend to pick up more than those who work just OVW. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slimm44 0 Report post Posted September 6, 2005 Well I just got back and I had a really good time. A lot better than I expected but still the same rehash. Someone made a comment during the Benjamin-Conway match including kerwin about how there were two wrestlecrap gimmicks in one segment, it got a pretty good laugh. Post show, Michaels got helped up, crowd cheered, he pointed to everyone and thanked us. Then a quick post match featuring Snitsky/Angle and Show/Cena. After a few minutes of Cena being double-teamed, he tags in Show, Show dominates while Cena makes it back to his feet and the two hit their finishers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted September 6, 2005 The highlight was the Cena 3:16 sign. I am greatly disappointed with Cade and Murdoch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Danville_Wrestling 0 Report post Posted September 6, 2005 And whats with the crappy finishers. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well since moves keep getting banned left and right all of the finishers have to be crappy, unfortunately. I had no problem with the top rope bulldog, looked devastating enough. I didn't think RAW was too bad since we got more matches than we've gotten in a long time (and even TWO actual tag team matches)! However, JR gets on my nerves more than anything else week after week after week by damning everyone to hell or doing stupid things (ex. getting mad at Masters going off after HBK kicked him in the balls). I question, however, the logic of Cena CONSTANTLY playing second fiddle to someone ever since he's been on Raw. In fact, this is the first time since he's been on the Raw brand that he'll be in the main event of the pay-per-view. He had to play second fiddle to Batista-HHH @ Vengance (not that I disagree), second fiddle to Hogan-HBK for SummerSlam, and this is first shot @ the top versus Angle. It always seems that Cena's stuff takes place in the first hour so we can get more HBK in the second. Not that I hate HBK or anything, but the booking of HBK-Masters over Cena-Angle seems a helluva lot backwards. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cabbageboy 0 Report post Posted September 6, 2005 Greatly disappointed in Cade and Murdoch? If anything they are exceeding my expectations (which weren't high). Why didn't they just make this a title match tonight and get the belts off Hurricane and Rosey? I actually thought the Rock had "It" even back in 1996. Hell when I saw him on the USWA as Flex Kavana I thought "This guy is WAY more talented than these guys on here." But someone like Chris Masters? Bleh. No heat, no talent, nada. As far as Unforgiven goes, I disagree with Fook. All this Matt jobbing has to lead to something besides him just getting waxed again by Edge in the cage match. He has to pick up a win here at some point or else what they are doing is inexcusable. In terms of the title match, I say put it on Angle. Honestly, what can Cena do to put a crazed psychopathic Angle down for a 3 count? The guy has Road Dog type offense people. Either way I can guarrantee the crowd will turn on Cena and root for Angle since nearly anyone can tell who is the superior worker. Besides, having the title on the American hero sounds cool for the return to USA. As far as Michaels/Masters goes, get real. I can flat out 100% assure everyone that Masters is jobbing his ass off there. Does anyone think Shawn is going to agree to job out to Hogan and THEN at the next PPV to a jacked up rookie with no heat? Time to give up on Masters, Carlito, and these other failed jobber experiments. Thing is, I can't see Flair as IC champ...too bizarre. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hunter's Torn Quad 0 Report post Posted September 6, 2005 pushing new talent only works if they're any good to begin with. not JUST huge. Vince needs to realize this. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Remmember when Rocky debuted in '96, everyone hated him and note just for his bland character, he was a green wrestler with basic moves in the ring. Not saying that Masters could be the next Rock, but we can't expect every guy these days to break out of the gate and take the audience by storm. Esecially with the restrictive nature of how WWE lays out matches. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Masters has been getting the superpush for eight months. He isn't over. Go back and watch his match with Tajiri a couple of months ago. Tajiri was more over, and he's been a virtual jobber for ages. Even the ECW chants during the match were louder than anything for Masters. Tonight, even after laying out Michaels with a chair shot and Michaels getting color there was very little reaction. I'm all for giving a guy a chance, but he's had eight months of a real strong push, and he isn't over. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted September 6, 2005 Greatly disappointed in Cade and Murdoch? If anything they are exceeding my expectations (which weren't high). Why didn't they just make this a title match tonight and get the belts off Hurricane and Rosey? Cade and Murdoch were my favourite thing about RAW until tonight. I don't like the "fuck em in the ass" part of Murdochs personae because me thinks a very small percentage of hicks like to assfuck other men, but since it happened in Deliverance, it must be true. It's just sloppy character building, which comes as no surprise, but Murdoch clearly has some character to him and they aren't using it properly (IMO). Murdoch looked gassed-as-fuck and it doesn't make sense to me why he should be pulling the work load when Cade is the more annoying one of the two, and as such, should get the most whoopin. Then again, it also doesn't make sense for the Hurricane to get the hot tag and for Rosie to play the Morton-role. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hunter's Torn Quad 0 Report post Posted September 6, 2005 I liked that Murdoch doesn't have the typical gassed up physique that the rest of the roster has. It helps him stand out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted September 6, 2005 Agreed. I was wondering during the match if the WWE intentionally put him in there for the most time to "force" him into "shape" (because lord knows you can't be different in the WWE). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted September 6, 2005 Oh, and Serenity sponsoring the WWE, makes me happy and sad. Initially happy, because I always mark out for Firefly. But sad because, well, it's being associated with Box Office Poison in the WWE. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lord of The Curry 0 Report post Posted September 6, 2005 Whatever hopes I had for Serenity just went down the shitter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vampiro69 0 Report post Posted September 6, 2005 It is sad that I am the only Chris Masters fan. He is one of the reasons that I actually watch RAW. The crowd was way more into the challenge tonight then I was expecting them to be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Matt Young 0 Report post Posted September 6, 2005 Hey, I have become a Masters fan over the past couple months, myself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest slmon Report post Posted September 6, 2005 "Time to give up on Masters, Carlito, and these other failed jobber experiments. " Carlito isn't a "failed experiment", nor a jobber. As to Masters, it's too early to tell still on whether he will ultimately make it. If WWE crams him down our throats long enough, then he probably will. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
