Ring of Honor 9.24.05 Results

[Guest *KNK*]

Here are the on going results for tonight's RING OF HONOR show

 

Main Show

1. Jay Lethal d. Sal Rinauro in about 12 minutes with the Dragon Suplex

 

2. Colt Cabana d. Rickey Reyes with a Lariat in about 5 minutes. Lacey was taking notes during this match.

 

3. Roderick Strong d. Jerelle Clark in about 11 minutes with the Half Nelson Backbreaker followed by the Modified Boston Crab

 

4. Austin Aries d. Jimmy Rave by DQ after Rave hit Aries in the back with a chair. Rave continued to work over Aries' back until Roderick Strong made the save

 

5. Samoa Joe d. Milano Collection AT with a Muscle Buster in 15 minutes. The crowd gave Milano a standing ovation after the match, sounds like he won them over!

 

6. Christopher Daniels d. James Gibson in 26 minutes with the Last Rites. Afterwards Daniels cut a promo putting over Gibson, and Gibson cut one, putting over Daniels, the ROH locker room, and ROH in general.

 

Intermission

 

7. Devito & Shane Haggadorn d. Derek Dempsey and Kelly Primo, basically a comedy match, and Devito beat up Primo some more after the match.

 

8. Nigel McGuinness d. BJ Whitmer to retain the ROH Pure Title after a Low Blow, he then rolled Whitmer up and grabbed the ropes. Whitmer was out of rope breaks. Lacey was also scouting this match.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Survival of the Fittest Finalists

Samoa Joe Vs Christopher Daniels Vs Jay Lethal Vs Austin Aries Vs Roderick Strong Vs Colt Cabana

 

Results should be Finalized in roughly an hour.

[Adam 0]

I'd like to see Strong win it all, coming down to Aries-Strong for something different.

[Guest *KNK*]

UPDATE

9. Roderick Strong eliminated Samoa Joe. Daniels hit the BME on Joe, and then Strong hit the Half-Nelson Backbreaker on Daniels so he could pin Joe!

 

10. Austin Aries eliminated Christopher Daniels. Daniels was going for the Angel's Wings on Strong, and Aries hit a Sunset Flip to pin Daniels.

 

11. Roderick Strong eliminated Jay Lethal. Aries had just hit Lethal with the Brainbuster and Strong pinned Lethal.

 

12. Roderick Strong eliminated Colt Cabana with a Piledriver.

 

After this elimination Aries cut a promo telling the crowd not to boo them for double teaming everyone. He then put over Strong, and said that they'd always be Generation Next, they'd always be friends, but for now, they are opponents, and are going to find out who's the better man.

 

13. Roderick Strong eliminated Austin Aries to win the 2005 Survival of the Fittest! He hit Aries with 2 Half-Nelson Backbreakers, followed up by the Modified Crab for the tap out victory. Total time of the main event match was roughly 54 minutes. After the match, Strong announced that he would be challenging Bryan Danielson for the ROH World Title on 10/29 in CT!

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

At least there is one US booker who knows how, and is willing, to make new top stars for his company.

[The Mandarin 0]

Hooray!

 

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I don't care much for ROH and don't really follow it that much -but wouldn't it be better to elevate a new star later in AmDragons title run rather than earlier? I mean, there is no way Strong will beat Dragon at this point in his title reign, right? So what's the point of putting him over all these guys just for a match folks will expect him to lose?

[Guest *KNK*]

At least there is one US booker who knows how, and is willing, to make new top stars for his company.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

He's been pushing Strong for months now and rightfully so. It's a perfect push here where he doesn't always go over but he learns from his errors and capitalizes on them.

 

Not only did Roderick Strong win a one night "mini-tournament" but he went over 4 of ROH's biggest stars in Joe, Cabana, Lethal and Aries in CONVINCING fashion.

 

Gabe knows that Joe and Aries are golden and set as stars in ROH forever and that Cabana is always over regardless and Lethal won't be hurt from this.

 

Gabe manages to avoid politics brilliantly.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I don't care much for ROH and don't really follow it that much -but wouldn't it be better to elevate a new star later in AmDragons title run rather than earlier?  I mean, there is no way Strong will beat Dragon at this point in his title reign, right?  So what's the point of putting him over all these guys just for a match folks will expect him to lose?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I imagine Sapolsky is patterning this elevation along the lines of the Japanese groups, where he elevates Strong up the ladder and has him put in the match of his life in a losing effort to Dragon. That way, the fans know that Strong has improved his game a great deal, and while he can't beat the top guy just yet, he is good enough to give the top guy a run for his money.

[Guest *KNK*]

I don't care much for ROH and don't really follow it that much -but wouldn't it be better to elevate a new star later in AmDragons title run rather than earlier?  I mean, there is no way Strong will beat Dragon at this point in his title reign, right?  So what's the point of putting him over all these guys just for a match folks will expect him to lose?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Actually, Roderick Strong already had his share of title shots this year so it's nothing new for him to lose a title match but he hasn't been protrayed as a "choker" like Dragon was and Homicide still is.

 

Roderick Strong will likely win the title, but not on 10/29 but in 2006. There's nothing wrong with a series of matches leading to Roderick finally figureing out the key to beating Danielson.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I figured something similar to a combination of what HTQ said (getting over in a losing effort) and what KNK said (winning a match later-on), but you see -as KNK mentioned- Strong went over 4 or ROH's biggest stars, you'd think that would be for someone who'd _have a chance_ at winning the title he's contending for. Which brings back the "what is the point" part of what I was saying. A win like this would signal that Dragon is in trouble, but does anyone believe that? And as such, would they consider Strong better off than he was before beating all those 4 guys given his odds of winning against Dragon are equal now to before?

 

It's not like he's any more of a threat, simply on the basis of Dragon being fresh into his title reign after a relatively short reign by Gibson and a reign that certainly had an expiry date on it in CM Punks. Would I be safe in assuming that people expect Dragon to have a long reign? Not a Joe-like reign, but certainly something that extends into next Spring and maybe even Summer. I don't see anything wrong with Strong going over those guys, or him challenging Dragon for the title - but I think there's something wrong with trying to do both. They sorta cancel each other out.

[The Mandarin 0]

I knew Strong was going to win tonight and I'm fine with that, but to be honest, I'd rather see Colt Cabana take the title from Danielson than anyone else, including Strong.

 

I've got the less popular opinion, but I think he's improved a hell of a deal and become on of the overall best guys in ROH. However, 2006 will probably be Strong's year and that's okay.

[Guest *KNK*]

I figured something similar to a combination of what HTQ said (getting over in a losing effort) and what KNK said (winning a match later-on), but you see -as KNK mentioned- Strong went over 4 or ROH's biggest stars, you'd think that would be for someone who'd _have a chance_ at winning the title he's contending for.  Which brings back the "what is the point" part of what I was saying.  A win like this would signal that Dragon is in trouble, but does anyone believe that?  And as such, would they consider Strong better off than he was before beating all those 4 guys given his odds of winning against Dragon are equal now to before? 

 

It's not like he's any more of a threat, simply on the basis of Dragon being fresh into his title reign after a relatively short reign by Gibson and a reign that certainly had an expiry date on it in CM Punks.  Would I be safe in assuming that people expect Dragon to have a long reign?  Not a Joe-like reign, but certainly something that extends into next Spring and maybe even Summer.  I don't see anything wrong with Strong going over those guys, or him challenging Dragon for the title - but I think there's something wrong with trying to do both.  They sorta cancel each other out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes. People are expecting and hoping that Danielson will get a relatively longer reign then Punk and Gibson but are realistic enough to know it'll be more of an Austin Aries style reign as opposed to Samoa Joe's 20 month reign.

 

Danielson is already being pushed by ROH to be a fighting champion taking on other promotion's stars in addition to ROH's stars.

 

I don't see how it cancels Roderick Strong or Danielson out by having a strong match that Roderick Strong is seen to having taken Dragon to his absolute limit.

 

It's classic old school booking. I'll take this booking over anything else in north american wrestling.

 

Gabe always has a plan even if it's hazy at first and it usually delivers.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Strong losing to Dragon after a "taking him to his absolute limit" could have been done without going over the companies 4 top stars. Something like this should make the guy going into the title match as _the favourite_ to win at best, and "I have no idea what's going to happen - anyone can take it" at worst. NOT, as everyone so far here expects, "He won't win the title, but it will be a good match". THAT'S how tonights show gets cancelled out by the show next month.

 

It's completely unnecessary booking. Booking like this should put someone in a better position, but with AD as champ, it puts Strong in the same position as before - as a guy who will come close, but won't win. And even if he *does* win, which is unlikely and will come as a surprise, it won't really matter because the important thing is buying him as champ _leading into_ the match.

 

Granted, I don't watch ROH, I don't exactly know the circumstances around it, things could change - but on-paper, at this moment, this is how things look to me. This is not how to book a new star. You don't do all this just to cut him off at the knees by having him lose - no matter how competitive the match is. If I were doing damage control, I'd sidetrack Strong ASAP and get him away from that Dragon title match. Let Dragon get a few token wins out, get everyone comfortable in his reign and ready to see him lose, and let Strong be the one to beat him - if that's the ultimate plan.

 

Maybe I just see this win tonight as being bigger than it really is, but -again- on-paper, beating those top guys tonight... it should go towards something more meaningful and productive.

 

Is "Classic Old School Booking" making anyone else laugh/roll their eyes? Just me? Ok.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I think you should watch ROH, and then you might see how this booking fits in with how ROH works. It might not look like it can work if you don't watch ROH, but watching ROH might put the whole thing in the correct context.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Unless watching ROH will change the basic concept of

 

"Guy beats 4 top guys"

"Guy, despite beating 4 top guys, has no chance at winning the title because title holder can't lose yet"

_________

"Guy beating 4 top guys is meaningless"

 

Then I don't see how it would.

 

Plus, don't make me watch ROH. It's wrestling poison.

[Guest *KNK*]

I think you should watch ROH, and then you might see how this booking fits in with how ROH works. It might not look like it can work if you don't watch ROH, but watching ROH might put the whole thing in the correct context.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

He'd make a good ROHBOT. He's looking for the negatives in this despite not knowing the context of what occured tonight. A legendary staple of ROHBOT's.

 

This isn't unusual for ROH to have booking decisions that leave us confused(although this doesn't really fit) but because the context is explained as the future booking develops, it makes sense. ROH is a continuing series of stories as opposed to WWE and TNA which are just two hour episodes loosely connected to the previous episode.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

My head is going to explode.

 

Will Strong beat Dragon?

No?

Then tonights win was pointless.

 

I was way too nice, fuck context, I'm right, this booking sucks.

[Cuban Linx 0]

From the look of the results Strong going over 4 guys isn't as dominate as it looks at first, Daniels is the one that finished Joe and Aries is the one that finished Lethal, Strong just stole the pins, and from Aries' promo he & Strong did alot of double-teaming in order to beat everyone. Only the Aries win was Strong really going over convincingly, so i don't read it like Strong was portrayed to be so dominate that losing to Dragon will be a huge letdown for him. Maybe it will be, i don't know, i'll wait for some results that are more than one line to see exactly how it came off.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

I do see Rudo's point though and I do watch RoH. I know RoH is known to do that kind of booking, but unless Strong wins the belt next month, I don't necessarily agree with tonight's result. I will definitely wait and see what happens though.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I think you should watch ROH, and then you might see how this booking fits in with how ROH works. It might not look like it can work if you don't watch ROH, but watching ROH might put the whole thing in the correct context.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This isn't unusual for ROH to have booking decisions that leave us confused(although this doesn't really fit) but because the context is explained as the future booking develops, it makes sense. ROH is a continuing series of stories as opposed to WWE and TNA which are just two hour episodes loosely connected to the previous episode.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not a fan of some of the booking decisions Gabe makes, but when they get played out, I can at least see the story he is trying to tell. This might look silly right now, but instead of saying it sucks, how about waiting to see how it plays out. People might just be surprised. If it plays out badly, then people can come back and rightfully say the whole deal sucked.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

That never happens though!

 

I am still waiting for my reparations cheques from the whole Benoit RR/RAW/WM/World Title, thing in 2004. Lemme proclaim suckery now. I have a good track record!

[Guest *KNK*]

That never happens though!

 

I am still waiting for my reparations cheques from the whole Benoit RR/RAW/WM/World Title, thing in 2004.  Lemme proclaim suckery now.  I have a good track record!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Gabe has a better track record then the idiots who were in charge of that debacle.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Don't take this as a loaded question, it's just something I've been wondering about because -to me- this is something that has been a bit of a pattern throughout ROH history, or at least from what I have observed from ROH.

 

Would it be safe to consider Strong as the least likely winner going into that match, at least on paper?

 

Would it be safe to say that ROH has a track record of having the least likely guys end up winning various gimmick matches/tournaments/hoorahs? Not always, but more than most companies would?

[bob_barron 0]

Would it be safe to consider Strong as the least likely winner going into that match, at least on paper?

 

No, everyone figured Strong would win.

[Guest *KNK*]

Don't take this as a loaded question, it's just something I've been wondering about because -to me- this is something that has been a bit of a pattern throughout ROH history, or at least from what I have observed from ROH.

 

Would it be safe to consider Strong as the least likely winner going into that match, at least on paper?

 

Would it be safe to say that ROH has a track record of having the least likely guys end up winning various gimmick matches/tournaments/hoorahs?  Not always, but more than most companies would?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not really. The least likely winner on Paper was Samoa Joe(not counting the other 6 men who didn't advance).

 

Roderick Strong was strongly pushed the last few months (as I mentioned, had a share of title shots already). He was in fact, the de-facto favorite because of his strong push of late.

 

Last year, Bryan Danielson won SOTF after Aries took him to the limit.

 

I would strongly believe that Am.Dragon would hardly qualify as an "unlikely".

[Michrome 0]

Would it be safe to consider Strong as the least likely winner going into that match, at least on paper?

 

No.

 

If you go check out the predictions at the ROH board about 80-90% predicted Strong winning. He is getting a huge push. He was the only one to beat Matt Hardy, even though Daniels and Homicide jobbed to him.

 

Also, every guy Strong pinned except for Aries was via someone else's help. He pinned Joe after Daniels' move, pinned Lethal after Aries' move, and pinned Cabana only because Aries blew the elimination spot.

[Guest OSIcon]

My head is going to explode.

 

Will Strong beat Dragon?

No?

Then tonights win was pointless.

 

I was way too nice, fuck context, I'm right, this booking sucks.

 

I am not getting this.

 

So a promotion shouldn't put one guy over a bunch of other top guys unless he is going to win the championship? Why?

 

Why can't Roderick Strong be booked as a guy who is really, really good but wasn't able to beat Danielson in their one singles bout? It would be one thing if they had Strong go over four guys then jobbed him out to everyone or had him lose to a relative mid carder. However, having him lose to the champion, in a match that will most likely be wrestled in the "either guy could have won" fashion, hardly makes his win pointless. All losing to Danielson does is say that Roderick isn't the champion. It does nothing to state that he isn't ONE of the top guys right under Danielson or even that he couldn't beat Danielson on any other night.

 

You are acting as if the heirarchy in ROH (or any wrestling promotion) is one dimensional. As if there is the champion and then everyone else. That is not the case. Roderick Strong can beat four guys, position himself as one of the top 5 wrestlers in the promoion and then lose to the champ without it being pointless. Tonight's win will have still cemented him as a top 5 guy regardless of whether he beats Danielson. If Strong ends up back in the midcards losing to a bunch of random midcarders, then your point might be valid. Until then, it is not.

 

As an aside, I should probably mention that, if I read the results right (and I think I did), one of Strong's eliminations came with the help of Daniels (Daniels hit the moonsault on Joe, Strong hit Daniels with a back breaker, and then pinned Joe), one after Aries hit Lethal with the Brainbuster, and then two on his own (vs. Cabana and Aries). It isn't like he completely squashed four of their top guys or anything.

 

You are reaching here.

[EricMM 0]

Do they still do the top 5 ranking/contenders thing in ROH?

 

And, I don't get the hate.

 

RRR, SOMEONE had to with the match.

 

It's not like he hit his finisher four times in quick succession.

[Fökai 0]

Strong loses to Danielson, no real damage done.

 

On the other hand, it seems that Rudo is basing his views on similar incidences in other U.S. promotions. Sapolsky likes to book the top two levels of workers together, rotating guys in and out when there's a key arrival or departure (everything from the midcard down is middling stuff). Here, just because a challenger loses, doesn't mean he's now booked into the "upper mid-carder of doom" position where he's now a ally to AmDrag or whatever.

 

Yes, Strong will lose, will take Danielson to his absolute limit, but even in a loss will hold the distinction of the SotF winner. Even the laziest booker can now program five new feuds with Strong, pairing him with each guy that he 'beat'. The ideal scenario (or my scenario), is booking Strong to go over all five wrestlers again in various shows leading to Dragon/Strong II in about six months. Those wins WILL matter. Do the title change there and that win matters. By that time, Danielson will have gone through the gauntlet of challengers.

 

EDIT: Hope that made sense.

[Copper Feel 0]

I think you should watch ROH, and then you might see how this booking fits in with how ROH works. It might not look like it can work if you don't watch ROH, but watching ROH might put the whole thing in the correct context.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

He'd make a good ROHBOT. He's looking for the negatives in this despite not knowing the context of what occured tonight. A legendary staple of ROHBOT's.

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Nah ROHBOT'S dont look for negatives in everything, they blindly praise everything that ROH puts out.

 

The result of the Danielson .vs. Strong match wont really mean anything anyway, since ROH fans have been conditoned to exept that match results dont matter.