Wwe confidential

[Guest]

He didnt turn it down because he didn't want to job to Austin. Sorry for not clarifying. He turned down all of the scenarios because it had something to do with losing more matches than winning, too many title switches etc. I don't want to take the time to rummage through all of my old Observers to find it although I will someday. He turned down the last minute scenarios because he felt that in the end he would be better off with the offer from Bischoff. I mentioned that just to let some of you know something you may not have

 

and you should think about ordering it. It's like $5 for a back issue and it's WELL worth it. What's even better is that it explains the strange happenings during the match, like extra security being called towards the ring during the match, reactions just as the match ended by people backstage like the referee who was originally supposed to run down to replace Hebner etc... EXTREMELY detailed report, and like I said, a really really cool read

[Guest alfdogg]

This is from "Have a Nice Day":

 

>>>If Bret would have gotten his way, Stone Cold or I would have had the damn belt<<<

 

I forget what the whole thing was he said, but I just wanted to throw out a line to try to put the "Bret wouldn't job to Austin" theory to rest.

 

If I recall correctly, I remember hearing that SHAWN didn't want to job to Austin at WM14, and the Undertaker ahd to talk him into it.

[Guest cabbageboy]

I think it was Anglesault who brought up the Hogan/Russo deal.  Well, I'll comment on it since no one else cares to.  To me, the whole Hogan thing was really sad and hurt WCW more than it helped.  

 

Watch that tape of BATB 2000.  Russo's speech is mean and most of it will fly over the head of the average fan (all the talk of Hogan having control of his contract).  Vince might have screwed Bret over, but at least he didn't publicly humiliate him by trashing him in a shoot promo.  

 

I've never been a big Hogan fan, nor do I hate him, but I didn't like seeing Hogan tossed aside and humiliated like that.  Hogan did have control over things in his contract so if he didn't want to job to Jarrett it was his choice.  We can debate all night if such a thing should be in the contract, but it was there.  

 

Russo focused too much on the net.  On the net people creamed themselves over this angle (?) and over Booker as champ but the casual fans wiped their ass with it.

[Guest]

This is from "Have a Nice Day":

 

>>>If Bret would have gotten his way, Stone Cold or I would have had the damn belt<<<

 

I forget what the whole thing was he said, but I just wanted to throw out a line to try to put the "Bret wouldn't job to Austin" theory to rest.

 

If I recall correctly, I remember hearing that SHAWN didn't want to job to Austin at WM14, and the Undertaker ahd to talk him into it.

Read what I said above this post... I went into further detail that the deal wasn't Bret not wanting to job to Austin, but because he turned down the scenario for other reasons mainly because the scenario offered a series of matches where he would lose most of them and therefor cheapen him... so he went with WCW's offer in the end because it seemed better at the time

[Guest Anglesault]

Something I've wondered for a while now: What if Bret really didn't want to job the title at all and he was just saying "Austin, or Mankind, or the Brooklyn Brawler" because he knew Vince would never go for it? If I was Vince, I would have tried to call Bret's bluff, say, "okay, you're losing the title when Steve Lombardi makes you submit to the Sharpshooter." and watch Bret's reaction to that. I don't think it would be favorable.

[Guest snowfan]

Something I've wondered for a while now: What if Bret really didn't want to job the title at all and he was just saying "Austin, or Mankind, or the Brooklyn Brawler" because he knew Vince would never go for it? If I was Vince, I would have tried to call Bret's bluff, say, "okay, you're losing the title when Steve Lombardi makes you submit to the Sharpshooter." and watch Bret's reaction to that. I don't think it would be favorable.

It is a lot more likely he would have than Mr. "I lost my smile" would job for anyone but a buddy or the "annoited one"(Austin)...

 

He put people over and I don't think he would have had a cow...

 

He couldn't take it with him and he would have laughed about Lombardi when he got to WCW...

[Guest TheDames7]

How many times was HBK on his way out of the company

AS, in 94, HBK got an offer from WCW while he was IC champion and no showed many house shows.  That led to his suspension and the Razor Ramon IC title reign after winning a battle royal.  Instead of jobbing the title, HBK just stayed home and collected a check when he was possibly on his way out of the company.  

 

That led to the 5 star ladder match, but I'm just calling a spade a spade.  

 

Dames

[Guest goodhelmet]

exactly dames, and how many times has hbk refused to job any title? Has he ever given it up clean besides the WM14 job?

[Guest TheDames7]

Hmm...lets go down the line shall we?

 

Euro - Layed down in a comedy match for HHH

 

IC title - Suspended & Stripped 2nd reign, 3rd reign, forfeited to Dean Douglas.

 

Tag - Quit team, left Austin with both tag belts.

 

World - Forfeited title before WM 13 main event, causing a 4 way title match to end the vacancy.

 

Dames

[Guest]

Something just popped into my head that I haven't thought about

 

We all know that Bret refused blah blah blah... but I've always gotten the impression from watching the documentary and hearing both sides, that Vince was never really forceful with getting Bret to drop the title. I just get the impression that Vince didn't go about it in the way I would've gone about it

 

"Bret, you're dropping the title. It's not yours, it belongs to the WWF. I own it. You're dropping it, understand? You WILL lose to Shawn, and if you don't like it, TOUGH SHIT!"

 

I'm just wondering if Vince was just really shocked about being told "no" that he didn't really even know how to react.

[Guest evenflowDDT]

Wow, I started a thread that lasted more than one page! More than five pages even! Who cares if only 10 of the posts are on topic? Speaking of the topic... I have yet to see WWE Confidential (I was away over Memorial Day weekend), but it seems like there was some enjoyable non-Montreal stuff, but part 2 of the HBK/Montreal stuff is again touted as the "main event" this week.  What gives? Is any of the non-Montreal stuff strong enough to be a consistent feature, or is it all throw-away stuff that was just well-compiled enough to maintain interest this one time? I'm really interested in this, and I do plan on watching it this week, along with VELOCITY~!

[Guest Big McLargeHuge]

This is from "Have a Nice Day":

 

>>>If Bret would have gotten his way, Stone Cold or I would have had the damn belt<<<

 

I forget what the whole thing was he said, but I just wanted to throw out a line to try to put the "Bret wouldn't job to Austin" theory to rest.

 

If I recall correctly, I remember hearing that SHAWN didn't want to job to Austin at WM14, and the Undertaker ahd to talk him into it.

Yeah I heard the same. Although I heard an exaggerated "Taker threatened to kick the shit out Shawn if he didn't drop the belt" story. That sounds a tad execessive to me.

 

And to the "job to Steve Lombardi by submitting to the Sharpshooter" comment: He probably would've jobbed, though with is reasonable creative control, would've changed the finish to something more believable.

[Guest evenflowDDT]

*BUMP*

 

Given that Shawn Michaels returned after specifically stating in the much-hyped Velocity interview last week that he would never return as HBK, does this make the show less credible in "main event" interview segments, such as the upcoming one on the TE:2 season finale? Do you expect that one to be a "work" as well? Is the show really just a sneaky way for the WWE to shill and mess with smarks' ('cuz really, none of the ordinary fans care or are watching anyway) heads?

 

I didn't feel like starting a new topic, plus this is the longest a topic I started ever went.

 

Also, from some of what I've read in this topic (since I know everyone will ignore the Confidential question anyway), HBK pulls just as much backstage stuff as Hogan... so why don't all the smarks tear him apart like they do Hogan? I'm not in any way defending Hogan, just curious about the double standard...

[Guest]

Why do smarks rip into Hogan more than Shawn? Easy question. Shawn was good in the ring, and Hogan never really has been.

 

Actually from what I've read in the Observer and other sources (from REAL insiders, not just internet "smarks") Shawn's backstage antics were always worse than Hogan's. Hogan was a politican more than anything, but he was usually as professional as a wrestling politican could be, while Shawn's backstage antics were always more dissruptive

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Hmm...lets go down the line shall we?

 

Euro - Layed down in a comedy match for HHH

 

IC title - Suspended & Stripped 2nd reign, 3rd reign, forfeited to Dean Douglas.

 

Tag - Quit team, left Austin with both tag belts.

 

World - Forfeited title before WM 13 main event, causing a 4 way title match to end the vacancy.

 

Dames

I just wanted to make this off topic point.

 

Euro- lost title when Goldust was beaten for it and it stood.

 

IC- was stripped due to knee injury...

 

Tag- Austin did the JOB

 

World- Rock pinned Vince to win it.

 

So Shawns not the only one to not only win the grand slam...but also lose all the belts without being beaten.

 

The other...oh come on...you know.

[Guest Dangerous A]

The world title thing I'll give you. That was just bullshit. Those stips should've never been in place to begin with. But then again, why is HHH getting the blame for that? Vince is in the damn match. If it is such a bad idea, then why didn't Vince say HHH was gonna have to do the job. Now lets look at the other points you made about the title switches.

 

"Euro- lost title when Goldust was beaten for it and it stood."

 

True, but then had another Euro reign that year where he dropped the title to D-Lo.

 

 

"IC- was stripped due to knee injury..."

 

I'm sure he planned the injury. If you recall, the injury was serious and he was on the shelf for months so they had to take the belt off of him.

 

"Tag- Austin did the JOB"

 

Yes, but who's to say who had a hand in that. Maybe Patterson is to blame since he helps lay out matches. Plus the win on Austin would've meant more because he was the WWF champion. Also the win was slightly tainted since it was the sledgehammer shot that set up the win anyway. It wouldn't have made sense for Austin to hit HHH with the sledgehammer since it's not his weapon of choice. Unless you know of some meeting in San Jose that afternoon where HHH made a stink about being the one pinned in the tag match, you've got nothing.