The OAO RAW thread - 11/07/05

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

It was quite boring, and most of it was bad. Sadly, when ever the WWE doesnt outright suck, those shows tend to be "solid" given the declining curve of expectations.

 

The only pluses I saw were Murdoch and Mickie James/Trish Stratus.

[Golgo 13 0]

All you "Cena is getting booed by everyone and isn't over" posters are fucking retarded and tonight (much like every night) proved it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah, WWE only had to have Angle call out the fans, bait them, and align him with Daivari in order to do it. God, you're an idiot.

[Guest Leelee]

Damn, it couldn't be more obvious in the 2nd half of the show, either lol...

 

If you're pulling out the EVIL IRAQI~ to help the heel out, what is WWE going to do for the next 2-5 months to keep Cena face before he jobs the title to HHH?

[Vampiro69 0]

Good show this evening in my opinion. Styles was a breath of fresh air, plus we had the return of Davari and the best entrance music ever.

[Guest SavageRulz]

After weeks of crappy programming, Raw finally had something to work off of.

 

Benjamin got back in the ring against Carlito in 1 on 1 action. Trish and Mickie are still building to a turn. Triple H and Flair still have a head of steam going in the right direction. Raw vs Smackdown rosters were announced on the Raw side. Coach got it handed to him by Styles and Lawler and proved he is more comfortable riding coattails instead of carrying the load. Helms as a heel looked sharp and didn't job!

 

Joey Styles did a good job for his first night on Raw. I loved the constant jabs at Coach, and thought he worked great with the King. But I also understand Styles is in a feel out period with the WWE. They need to let him be himself like they finally did with JR back in 1997. I give Styles a strong A- for his first Raw.

 

Coach on the other hand seemed more relaxed with the taunts and cheapshots from Lawler and Styles. He is not a lead commentator for wrestling. Why he doesn't try to incorporate some of what he does in the college football calls is beyond me, because Coach could be better. Maybe not having Vince scream in his ear helps him?

 

Benjamin vs Carlito was good. I was actually glad the WWE stopped the Cabana crap for Carlito and is trying to focus on his in ring performance. Benjamin is lost in the Raw fold right now. But still one of their best wrestlers. Not a great match, but a solid opener.

 

Trish and Mickie vs Victoria and Candice. Crack kills, but the storyline of an over obsessed fan works, even if they did this with Sable. Mickie will turn on Trish before Survivor Series or eventually beat Trish while trying to help her. The match itself was dull.

 

KANE & Big Show vs Cade & Murdoch. Not a bad hardcore match at all. All the goodies got in the ring, typical trash can abuse, KANE & Big Show being on the same page helps. Cade and Murdoch need to get more time in the ring with people they can beat and will have the belts back soon. KANE and Big Show will implode before we know it.

 

Flair vs Conway. Flair and Conway wasn't bad at all. I don't know what people want out of Flair at 50 plus, but he is still working it and the crowd. The aftermatch is the most important oart of this match, it continued the Flair and Triple H feud without either being in the main event scene.

 

Angle entrance. Sorry to those without a sense of humor, but this was gold! Angle going off the deep end and talking about losing his family is true. But the entire build to the main even made this work. And the editing of the chants was brilliant, but they forgot about them at the end. It still won me over.

 

Main Event: Cena & Michaels vs Angle & Masters: Not a bad match at all. Daivari coming out caught everyone off guard. Not bad as far as action, the chair DQ was weak. Angle needing help is weak. But the match itself did its job in the end.

 

This was a better show then in all the prior weeks. Team Raw has Michaels, Carlito, KANE and Big Show. Team Smackdown will be announced this week.

 

Overall I give the show a B. Raw can still do better and without the McMahon's on the show it should help the ratings a little.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I assume your scale some how finds a way to have letters above A.

[Golgo 13 0]

If you're pulling out the EVIL IRAQI~ to help the heel out, what is WWE going to do for the next 2-5 months to keep Cena face before he jobs the title to HHH?

 

Someone cooks Cena's dog and feeds it to him?

 

I was actually glad the WWE stopped the Cabana crap for Carlito and is trying to focus on his in ring performance.

 

But that's the worst possible thing they could do for him. Talking is his strong point. In the ring he's totally exposed.

 

Almost forgot. I'm usually not one for this, but...

 

DAIVARI

[Guest Leelee]

Someone cooks Cena's dog and feeds it to him?

 

Someone reads Wrestlecrap!

[cabbageboy 0]

Tonight showed some desperation....maybe next week they'll have Kurt spit on the flag and shove down a few old ladies in the crowd (not Moolah/Mae)?

 

You also have to remember where this show was taking place. Ft. Wayne, IN. Places like KY and IN are very traditional fans, not terribly into reading the net sites, etc. Old school USWA territory: Cheer the faces, boo the heels. A good example recently was during the whole Matt Hardy debacle...at a house show I was at Edge had a match and maybe 3 guys were chanting "You screwed Matt!" The rest of the crowd had no idea.

 

I'm not entirely sure what I think of Styles yet. There's something anachronistic about it, but I'm not sure why. People act like the guy has some crisis over putting over John Cena....I mean the guy put over Justin Credible as a world champ in ECW, so I hardly think pimping Cena or Chris Masters gets him down.

[Aero 0]

This was the first Raw since Homecoming I was able to watch from start to finish due to not having work. Based on what I've seen and read the past few weeks, it was better than usual, but I wasn't that impressed.

 

The opening was fun, and Shelton got to not only appear, but talk and wrestle... but that ended up being a huge let-down when he lost to the most overused finish today. I know I saw it mentioned at least once in the thread, but that might as well be Carlito's finisher. What is Shelton's record against Carlito anyway? 0-5 or something? Sure, technically, Carlito was counted out or DQ'd a few times, but Shelton might has well have lost everytime for not getting anything accomplished.

 

I'm just sick in general of the seemingly same tag team main events every week.

[Guest fanofcoils]

It looks like HHH will win his first ever match at Survivor Series.

[cabbageboy 0]

Let's see, here are HHH's Series results:

 

1995: UT squashed him in a survivor match.

1996: I think he lost in the survivor match that the Rock won.

1997: Did he even wrestle? I think he was mainly just with Shawn doing the screwjob.

1998: I think he was injured.

1999: Lost the title to the Big Show.

2000: The bizarre no contest with Austin

2001: He was hurt.

2002: Jobbed in the Elimination Chamber

2003: Jobbed to Goldberg

2004: Lost the survivor match that Orton (?) survived in.

[Vern Gagne 0]

Tonight showed some desperation....maybe next week they'll have Kurt spit on the flag and shove down a few old ladies in the crowd (not Moolah/Mae)?

 

Than Kurt and the old lady can meet back stage and share a laugh.

[The Tino Standard 0]

Tonight showed some desperation....maybe next week they'll have Kurt spit on the flag and shove down a few old ladies in the crowd (not Moolah/Mae)?

 

Than Kurt and the old lady can meet back stage and share a laugh.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hell yeah for the stunt granny.

 

As for the announce team tonight, I liked what I heard of Joey Styles, but if he's going to be with them for the long haul (doesn't seem like it with the way they kept referring to him as a fill-in/substitute), Coach needs to go. I actually liked it when Coach was added to the JR/Lawler team. He worked well in that three-man dynamic, playing a devil's advocate to JR and Lawler. Tonight, the three had no flow working at all and just kept tripping over each other.

[Guest JMA]

It's a credit to Styles that he was able to help make a mediocre show look better than it was. His announcing helped quite a lot.

[The Niggardly King 0]

JohnCena is reading this thread...

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

So I've got it right, the top babyface was laid out by a referee, correct?

[Guest JMA]

So I've got it right, the top babyface was laid out by a referee, correct?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That sounds about right. At least it wasn't Sylvan Grenier.

[The Niggardly King 0]

So which was more random, Daivari showing up out of nowhere to be the guest referee, or the whole Batista/Coach/Goldust/Vader debacle from last week?

[Guest JMA]

So which was more random, Daivari showing up out of nowhere to be the guest referee, or the whole Batista/Coach/Goldust/Vader debacle from last week?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's a tough call. I'll have to go with Vader/Goldust.

[The Niggardly King 0]

Why does Batista keep getting involved with RAW?

 

That's another thing that makes no sense.

[The Niggardly King 0]

I might actually be right with how things have been

[CanadianChick 0]

Geez people, what is the big deal with Angle being more heelish? It's a smart business move to make Angle as hated as possible. God forbid WWE doesn't want their face champion to be outcheered by their heel contender.

 

People over exaggerate the jeering Cena gets anyways. He's not exactly Rocky from '97, or even Michaels at MSG against Sid. He got a good pop tonight with no audible booing. If WWE helped with that cause, so be it. That's what they're suppose to do. Why do people want to see Cena fail anyways?

[Guest Fook_Theta]

Geez people, what is the big deal with Angle being more heelish? It's a smart business move to make Angle as hated as possible. God forbid WWE doesn't want their face champion to be outcheered by their heel contender.

 

People over exaggerate the jeering Cena gets anyways. He's not exactly Rocky from '97, or even Michaels at MSG against Sid. He got a good pop tonight with no audible booing. If WWE helped with that cause, so be it. That's what they're suppose to do. Why do people want to see Cena fail anyways?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No what they're suppose to do is put over whomever the crowd gets behind. If Angle is getting a lot of cheers, scale his heelishness back. If he's getting boos without "cheap heat" then have him push it further.

 

Cena has become a lazy worker and has a terrible gimmick. End the stupid gimmick, put Cena back in the IC contendership for awhile and make him earn the title back the long way. When he wants to he can put on a pretty good match, but that has been few and far between for the past year or so. The reason he got the gimmick was Vince was about three years too late in trying to market a 'white rapper' with some possible cross-over appeal. It hasn't nor won't happen ever, so let's just move on to something that may work.

 

edit: For the record, Cena is still getting cheered by most of the crowd most of the time. His promo work however has gotten the silent treatment since the move over to Raw and maybe before that(can't remember.)

Edited November 8, 2005 by Fook_Theta

[CanadianChick 0]

That may work? Cena is working. He's getting WWE tons of merchandise. He's over with the majority of the crowd. It's a small group of people who jeer Cena: the 20 something year old males who think he's a tool. It just so happens most people in this folder fit into that catergory, hence the backlash he gets in this folder.

 

Angle, as a face, is really only appealing to, funny enough*, the 20 something year old males. Would Angle be cheered like he is if that group of fans didn't dislike Cena as much as they do? Uh, no. Then why in God's name would you push Angle as a face because of a small amount of backlash against the champ? Only an idiot would think like that. It's just like everyone having the knee jerk reaction to turn Cena heel ASAP. His character just needs some tweaks so he seems less like he's trying to be cool and more like he is cool. It'd be win-win, really. The kids and women still like him because he's basically the same, and the 20 something year old guys will respect him, or whatever.

 

Hey, remember when those same group of fans who are now cheering Angle were cheering Randy Orton as a heel because they thought he was cool? Remember how much of a success his face run was? Oh wait...

 

*Oh wait, it's just fucking logic.

[geniusMoment 0]

The problem is the main demo WWE wants is, guess what, 20 something males. No matter what, most females will not like wrestling, because it is wrestling. There is no ad money in people over 34. WWE needs the 20 something males more than any group. So, if they reject Cena totally, he is destined to fail.

[CanadianChick 0]

I could have sworn that WWE's main demo are middle aged guys, who probably have kids, who probably like Cena....well, you see where I'm going with this.

 

And they aren't rejecting Cena totally. It isn't all 20 something year old males, because the jeering isn't loud enough to indicate that. And doesn't USA get all the ad money anyways? Why the fuck should WWE care about that?

[geniusMoment 0]

Cena should drop the kiddy bullshit he does know. Its virtually impossible to appeal to both the male and female demos. The only way he can is if he becomes so popular with the males (ala Stone Cold) that the females begin to see him as badass and cool. It is imperative that the males like him first, as 20 something males are not going to ever like a kiddy promo spewing, teen girl sex symbol.

 

There demo is mid 30s now, and they Fuckin hate it. They would kill for the 20s demo again. That is where all the revenue comes from.

[CanadianChick 0]

I agree with being more edgy, but Cena isn't catering to female audiences. He just happens to be attractive, so females scream.

 

It's very much possible to appeal to females and males. You just have to be somewhat attractive.

[geniusMoment 0]

It is so long as you appeal to the males first. If men hear women screaming for a wrestler before that wrestler is hugely popular with men they are likely to be jealous.