College Hoops: 1/2/2006 - 1/15/2006

[iggymcfly 0]

I told you that I didn't start really following college basketball until 1994 or 1995. The first tourney I remember is the one with the Webber game, but I wasn't exactly an authority then.

 

As for the Virginia Tech game, Duke was fucking around. They didn't think VT had a chance, and they played like it. Coming off tough wins over Indiana and Memphis, you can't expect them to get up for the Hokies. In games they've taken seriously this year, they've been awesome. They destroyed Maryland and Texas, and beat Wake really solidly on the road. Memphis is still a really good win even if it was a close game; I could see the Tigers in the Final Four this year.

 

The top criterion for a great team isn't how much they blow out the jobbers by, it's how they do against good teams in big games. That '96 Kentucky team split with UMass, and lost to Mississippi State with the SEC Championship on the line. That keeps them from being the best as far as I'm concerned. The image everyone has in their mind is of Mashburn dunking all over an overmatched Syracuse team, but that doesn't express their dominance through the whole season. If the Wildcats had faced a better challenger in the title game, I'm not sure they'd be remembered so well.

[SilverPhoenix 0]

I'll be honest on Duke. The Jury is still out on them for me. Not as a good team, not even as a great team.

 

But as an all time great team.

 

Right now Duke looks good, extremely good. They're undefeated, they just blew out probably another Maryland team that will prove to be a fraud as well. They also have a win over a rebuliding, but still pretty good Wake Forest Team. There best win up to this point is a remerging Texas Team that isn't a fraud after all, whether they lose to Villanova or not. This isn't to debunk Duke, but they like many others in their position haven't faced alot of great teams as of yet. Lets see how they would do with 4 Guards that would shoot the Lights out in a Villanova, or a Team as Deep as UConn. Or even a team as hungry and would want payback like Memphis, before we call them the best team ever.

 

Duke can still lose though, we all know this. Really I think the best chances (in my opinion now) are going to come from a Georgetown that is lying in wait to upset someone like a Duke, or UNC (if they keep this up) at the Dean Dome (Emotion sometimes does win games, just ask UMass '96 after the George Washington Upset.). Personally, I do not want to be too quick to annoit this team National Champion, even with a 0 Loss Mark. We may see another Illinois '05 (Great, but fell just inches short) in the making.

[Alro 0]

The top criterion for a great team isn't how much they blow out the jobbers by, it's how they do against good teams in big games. That '96 Kentucky team split with UMass, and lost to Mississippi State with the SEC Championship on the line. That keeps them from being the best as far as I'm concerned.

So who is the best? The '76 Indiana team?

 

The image everyone has in their mind is of Mashburn dunking all over an overmatched Syracuse team, but that doesn't express their dominance through the whole season.

I don't think anybody remembers Mashburn dunking over an overmatched Syracuse team since he left two years before that.

[iggymcfly 0]

My point was just that at this point of the season, 2005 Duke's ahead of where 1996 Kentucky was. They both played tough schedules, Duke went undefeated in the early part of the season and Kentucky lost an early game to UMass.

 

As for the Mashburn thing, I was ten years old at the time, and I didn't recheck the roster like I did the schedule before posting. I remembered they had a big-time scoring forward who did well in the NBA, and I was thought it was Mashburn, but I guess I was actually thinking of Antoine Walker.

 

I think that my comments on Duke might have been misconstrued a little bit. I wasn't saying that they've solidifed themselves as the best team of the last two decades or anything like that. I was just saying that I haven't seen a team look this dominating at this point of the season. They were the consensus most talented team going into the year, they've played an extremely tough schedule, and they're undefeated, winning by huge blowouts against some of their toughest competition.

[SilverPhoenix 0]

Big Day Today in College Hoops with Matchups OOC and In Conference that could decide a bit going into the premeir episode of College Gameday which is next week. 19 Ranked Teams in Action, with Villanova and Texas being the game of the Day as it is BIG for both teams.

 

Seems like another action packed day in College Hoops.

[Guest Princess Leena]

I heart ESPNU and CSTV. Marist-Siena, Columbia-Princeton and Holy Cross-Bucknell regular season games. Allez.

[mike546 0]

The MVP of the UConn team this year has been Hilton Armstrong. Everyone thinks Boone is a 1st round pick, and he still might be. But Armstrong is a really good defensive player too, and has a better offensive upside.

[Damaramu 0]

How tough is Nova's schedule? Everytime I turn on the TV they're playing a ranked team.

[Damaramu 0]

This OU/A&M game is so sloooooooooow.......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz........

[Alro 0]

Un-fucking-believable. It has been five years since UK lost 3 in a row. If they have fewer than 12 losses this season, color me surprised.

[therealworldschampion 0]

Nova lost to Texas by 3. Eh can't win em all, I can't see them falling very far in the rankings next week even though they lost, considering Texas is in the top 10 and the game was on the road.

[Bored 0]

As for the Mashburn thing, I was ten years old at the time, and I didn't recheck the roster like I did the schedule before posting. I remembered they had a big-time scoring forward who did well in the NBA, and I was thought it was Mashburn, but I guess I was actually thinking of Antoine Walker.

Peaked my interest enough to find the 1996 Kentucky roster.

 

Tony Delk

Anotine Walker

Walter McCarty

Derek Anderson

Ron Mercer

Mark Pope

Anthony Epps

Jeff Sheppard

Wayne Turner

Jared Prickett

Allen Edwards

Nazr Mohammed

Oliver Simmons

Cameron Mills

Jason Lathrem

[Damaramu 0]

Ha! Kansas loses to Kansas State. North Carolina loses as well. Crazy weekend.....although Kansas wasn't exactly good or anything.

[iggymcfly 0]

"North Carolina loses" doesn't really capture it. Try North Carolina loses at home to Miami. Now that's embarrassing.

[cabbageboy 0]

Damn, U of L's win over Miami on the road is looking better and better. We held that Diaz dude scoreless.

 

Iggy, allow me to impart some wisdom. Duke this year has not played a team that could even TOUCH the 1996 UMass team. Dude, that team was like 32-1 that year before UK beat them in the FF. They beat the Iverson Georgetown team in the Elite 8 by about 25 points.

 

Alro might back me up on this but wasn't Pitino screwing around with Delk playing point guard in that UMass game?

 

I should also note that Miss St. made the FF in 96, using that UK upset in the SEC finals as a springboard. The other time UK played them they killed them by about 20 in STARKVILLE. It's always been my theory that Pitino just rested guys in that game in lieu of a "wakeup call" to get them focused for the big dance.

 

Besides, where does true greatness lie? Is it in winning an alleged "big game" in December, or is it kicking the everloving shit out of everyone in conference play to the tune of 30 points a game? Do you realize that in SEC play that year UK won all of ONE GAME by less than 10 points (against Georgia on the road 82-77). The SEC that year I might add also had 2 FF teams (UK, Miss St.) and 4 made the Sweet 16 (Arkansas and Georgia).

 

There's irony in your statement on "Duke was fucking around with Va Tech, they had beaten IU and Memphis and didn't care." They better fucking care since the Va Tech game was more important. It's an actual ACC league game.

 

(I should also note that in 96 UK beat perhaps Va Tech's best team ever in the 2nd round by 24).

 

In the modern era (as in 3 pt. line and shot clock) I can't think of a better team than the 1996 UK team. I wasn't alive for IU in 76, I'm sure they were amazing but I never saw them.

[iggymcfly 0]

Wait for the rematch in Blacksburg. If Duke doesn't win that one by at least 15 or 20, then maybe you have a point. Virginia Tech can't touch Duke when they're focused. Texas is looking like a legitimate Top 5 team right now, and look at what Duke did to them at a neutral site. Absolutely destroyed them.

 

And speaking of irony, how are you going to hold up conference play as the be-all and end-all of a team's greatness, and then champion a team that didn't even win their conference tournament? The SEC Champions in 1996 were the Mississippi State Bulldogs.

[snuffbox 0]

Will Wisconsin be breaking the next top20?

[iggymcfly 0]

They're already in the Top 20 in Iggy's rankings (18) and the coaches poll (17). The AP poll's the only where they're not, and they're ranked 21 there. I'd say it's pretty much a given that they move up one spot, especially with Carolina and BC losing this week.

[cabbageboy 0]

If you think Miss St. was really the SEC Champ in 1996, you're on drugs. UK went fucking UNDEFEATED in the league. Conference tourneys don't mean shit unless you need it like the small leagues do.

 

Of course Duke will squash Va Tech in Blacksburg, Va Tech has their attention now. What the hell are we arguing here exactly? Look, UK in 96 absolutely assraped Tim Duncan in the Elite 8 and he's one of the best ever. I think they could find a way to shut down the mighty J.J., who chokes in the tourney anyway.

 

As far as Texas goes, I have no idea what they were doing in the Duke and Tennessee games. Dama, is Buckman really THAT critical to their success that when he is hurt they get killed by 20-30 points?

[Guest Princess Leena]

Buckman missed almost all of the Nova game, so no.

[iggymcfly 0]

In the Duke game, Texas was getting thoroughly demolished by the best team in the land while JJ had a hot shooting night.

 

Against Tennessee, they were crying about how they couldn't believe that Duke beat them by 30.

 

And one more time cabbageboy, your argument was that conference games >>>> non-conference games. Well, I'm just saying that conference championship game >>>>>>>> December conference opener against a bad team.

[Damaramu 0]

If you think Miss St. was really the SEC Champ in 1996, you're on drugs. UK went fucking UNDEFEATED in the league. Conference tourneys don't mean shit unless you need it like the small leagues do.

 

Of course Duke will squash Va Tech in Blacksburg, Va Tech has their attention now. What the hell are we arguing here exactly? Look, UK in 96 absolutely assraped Tim Duncan in the Elite 8 and he's one of the best ever. I think they could find a way to shut down the mighty J.J., who chokes in the tourney anyway.

 

As far as Texas goes, I have no idea what they were doing in the Duke and Tennessee games. Dama, is Buckman really THAT critical to their success that when he is hurt they get killed by 20-30 points?

 

What Leena said. I haven't really paid much attention to the Big XII outside of OU, OSU, and Kansas this season actually.

[cabbageboy 0]

Conference tourneys are for the most part idiotic, especially for major conferences where the league is going to get 5 bids anyway. I never said a conf. opener against some jobber is as important as a title game of some sort, but a 3 game conf. tourney isn't anywhere near as notable as a 16 game conf. schedule that shows who is clearly the best.

 

Who cares if Maryland upsets Duke in the ACC tourney when they simply go out and lose to Syracuse the 2nd round?

 

To compare UK title teams, I'd say the 1998 team was in some ways more satisfying since they went 14-2 in the SEC, won the league, and won the conf. tourney with ease. However, the 1996 team would have beaten that bunch by 20.

[iggymcfly 0]

Conference tourneys are for the most part idiotic, especially for major conferences where the league is going to get 5 bids anyway. I never said a conf. opener against some jobber is as important as a title game of some sort, but a 3 game conf. tourney isn't anywhere near as notable as a 16 game conf. schedule that shows who is clearly the best.

 

Who cares if Maryland upsets Duke in the ACC tourney when they simply go out and lose to Syracuse the 2nd round?

 

To compare UK title teams, I'd say the 1998 team was in some ways more satisfying since they went 14-2 in the SEC, won the league, and won the conf. tourney with ease. However, the 1996 team would have beaten that bunch by 20.

 

No, I'd agree in that sense. I mean if Duke doesn't win the ACC regular season title, then of course they're not the best team of the last decade. Not even close. However, if they go 16-0 or 15-1, win their conference tourney, and then win the national title, (which I think they will on all counts), then they deserve to be put ahead of the 1996 UK team, regardless of how many points they beat VT by in December. That's all I was saying.