Why should rvd get a main event push?

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Speaking of shirts...

 

Am I the only one who hates 99% of Wwf t-shirts?

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

the people you listed were deemed not more worthy of a push so we started talking about something more interesting.

 

Next time be more interesting to start with and it won't have to come to this.

 

just kidding...or am I?

[Guest the pinjockey]

I think the question with regards to HHH in this thread is the fact you brought up RVD as not being worthy to be in the ME (I adamantly disagree but that is your opinion and more power to you) is the fact that there is dead weight in the ME already that should be flushed before bailing on a chance to give the second or third most over face in the company a rightful shot in the ME.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

I started this thread to question the WWF choice to elevate RVD to main-event status when there are other workers who are perhaps more worthy of the push.  Can somebody explain to me how it turned into another HHH conspiracy thread?

It's pretty simple, What. Around here, conspiracy theories are beaten to death, the corpse then gets raped and it starts all over again.

 

I can say that as long as I've been here, it still gives me a good laugh whenever it happens.

[Guest goodhelmet]

Speaking of shirts...

 

Am I the only one who hates 99% of Wwf t-shirts?

nope. i can't stand them and wouldn't wear any of them. maybe the kaentai evil indeed but thats it

[Guest treble charged]

Speaking of shirts...

 

Am I the only one who hates 99% of Wwf t-shirts?

nope. i can't stand them and wouldn't wear any of them. maybe the kaentai evil indeed but thats it

What's wrong with the Ric Flair "What's wrong with the Ric Flair "Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

ooooooo!" shirt?

[Guest cabbageboy]

I am torn on whether to believe that HHH is secretly trying to ruin RVD's career.  The elimination from the Rumble is one thing, but drowning out his chants?  That is retarded.  I would think that if HHH was truly out to bury RVD he would play nice to him and get on his good side, convince him that he'd like to feud with him, then get RVD jobbed out big time and make him look bad in the feud.  This is what is known as the Jericho Plan For Killing Heat.

 

The other school of thought is this:  HHH would be totally exposed in a feud with RVD even if he did squash him.  The fans would side with RVD and chant his name and not HHH's, and I doubt Hunter can stand that.  He would also be exposed in the ring.  RVD busts out all sorts of crazy shit and really hasn't even shown his whole moveset in the WWF yet.  HHH does.....kneelift, facebuster (uses knee), pedigree.  Maybe a neckbreaker too.  HHH would also look like a slow ogre in there.

 

In terms of performing in the ring, ability to draw money in the future, and being over with the fans.....RVD is the man to push.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Kaientai's evil shirt is a work of art... Less is more... Indeed.

 

HEY! Can I throw in a theory?

 

Does planet staziak remind you of anything?  Something Warriorish maybe?

[Guest]

cabbageboy are you for real????? if hhh isn't injured, and I think he still is, he is the fuckin man in the ring.  Before the injury he was busting out new shit in all his big matches.  RVD blows, no psychology, no legit offense, every move he does involes some kind of flip or turn.  Its just not believeable.  Remember when jeff hardy had the same kind of cheers 2 years ago??  The same shit will happen to rvd, he will be jobbing to jobbers in no time, just like the hardys.

 

--Rob

[Guest Sakura]

If HHH is so worried about RVD being more over and stuff ,why doesn't he just turn heel?

[Guest]

He gets more money from merchindise.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

I'd say his stuff sold more when he was a heel like the "Game Over" shirt.

[Guest]

the game over shirt was one of the cool shirts they have put out.  Personally the only shirts I have bought were the original silver dx shirt, the original nwo shirt and a four horsemen shirt from like 98 when they reformed again.  Mostly wrestling shirts suck though.  The best shirt even was the owen 3:16 shirt, too bad I never got it.

 

--Rob

[Guest]

cabbageboy are you for real????? if hhh isn't injured, and I think he still is, he is the fuckin man in the ring.  Before the injury he was busting out new shit in all his big matches.  RVD blows, no psychology, no legit offense, every move he does involes some kind of flip or turn.  Its just not believeable.  Remember when jeff hardy had the same kind of cheers 2 years ago??  The same shit will happen to rvd, he will be jobbing to jobbers in no time, just like the hardys.

 

--Rob

Agreed, anyone else remember when the annointed Jeff Hardy was being proclaimed "the next HBK?"

 

I've given up on the main event in general. The main event is, and ALWAYS will be about characters, not workrate. If the main event was ever more about ring ability than character, then it was purley accidental. The main event is what Vince and the writers base their entire sportz entertainment around, it is their answer to the soap opera. RVD, Lance Storm, Jeff Hardy and sadly Edge do not fit that demographic because they either have poor acting ability (RVD, Jeff Hardy) or have lame mid-card characters (Edge). I say, SCREW the main event. I was happiest watching the WWF when Angle was a dorky heel feuding over the Euro and IC belts. When Angle came on TV, that was my main event because that's what mattered to me most on the entire show. The main event only has meaning if you give it meaning, it is a phantom entity represented by a stupid gold belt which gets less and less meaningful each week. Besides, RVD is better used in the mid card where he can work his ass off and not have to worry about silly soap opera storylines, constant run ins, and perpetual DQ's.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

cabbageboy are you for real????? if hhh isn't injured, and I think he still is, he is the fuckin man in the ring.  Before the injury he was busting out new shit in all his big matches.  RVD blows, no psychology, no legit offense, every move he does involes some kind of flip or turn.  Its just not believeable.  Remember when jeff hardy had the same kind of cheers 2 years ago??  The same shit will happen to rvd, he will be jobbing to jobbers in no time, just like the hardys.

 

--Rob

For almost all of 2000 and some of 2001, HHH was deffinately The Man. Great pacing, great selling, and very proficient with the brawling, for sure. However, he's not that great anymore, and a match with RVD would expose that. Whether or not RVD has what you would call a "legit offense" fans can stay into his matches almost constantly, while HHH has a problem maintaining fan interest until he calls for the finish. He showed some signs of his former greatness in a few select matches, but he's being carried right now, and in 2000 it was almost always the opposite.

 

RVD's offense is over because it is innovative. When fans are sitting through main events containing some combination of X-Pac, Bradshaw, Scott Hall, the Big Show, and an unmotivated Austin, any sort of pure athletic ability and innovation can't help but be noticed. RVD is something different. Stylistically, it's not always loved by everyone, but it has contributed greatly to RVD's success. Also, to give RVD credit, he has really toned down his spotty tendancies of spot-rest-spot-rest, and even the ladder match on Raw (said to be his "most ECW-like match in the WWE") wasn't nearly as bad as the rubish he was trying to pass of as wrestling in ECW.

 

Stan Hensen originially told RVD that he wouldn't last two years wrestling his style, and that was eight years ago. Stranger things have happened, too.

[Guest]

dude, hh is injured, he has like a gimp every now and again, you can't expect his 2000-20001 form until he is fully recovered.  Fuck rvd, I can't stand spotty wrestlers, guerrero carried rvd's ass off the past month.  Chosyu I agree dude, thats the way I see things.

 

--Rob

[Guest]

sorry, I meant I agree with olympic slam

 

--Rob

[Guest RickyChosyu]

I've given up on the main event in general. The main event is, and ALWAYS will be about characters, not workrate. If the main event was ever more about ring ability than character, then it was purley accidental. The main event is what Vince and the writers base their entire sportz entertainment around, it is their answer to the soap opera. RVD, Lance Storm, Jeff Hardy and sadly Edge do not fit that demographic because they either have poor acting ability (RVD, Jeff Hardy) or have lame mid-card characters (Edge). I say, SCREW the main event. I was happiest watching the WWF when Angle was a dorky heel feuding over the Euro and IC belts. When Angle came on TV, that was my main event because that's what mattered to me most on the entire show. The main event only has meaning if you give it meaning, it is a phantom entity represented by a stupid gold belt which gets less and less meaningful each week. Besides, RVD is better used in the mid card where he can work his ass off and not have to worry about silly soap opera storylines, constant run ins, and perpetual DQ's.

RVD has fine acting ability. It's very limited, but it serves it's purpose. Charisma and acting ability are two different things anyway, methinks.

 

Around the time Angle was getting pushed as the IC/Euro champ, the main event was composed of Rock, HHH, and Cactus Jack who provided for some of the best wrestling matches the WWF has ever put on. Certainly better than the matches Angle was having at the time, including with guys like Jericho. Angle didn't become a better worker than HHH until some point in early 2001 anyway, and by then he was world champion.

 

EDIT:

 

>>dude, hh is injured, he has like a gimp every now and again, you can't expect his 2000-20001 form until he is fully recovered.  Fuck rvd, I can't stand spotty wrestlers, guerrero carried rvd's ass off the past month.  Chosyu I agree dude, thats the way I see things.<<

 

The point I was trying to make had nothing to do with why HHH isn't as great as he used to be. I know weight and injuries have a lot to do with it, but that doesn't take away from the fact that he's still not as good as he used to be, and a match with RVD would expose that.

 

Yeah, Guererro probably carried him to an extent, but RVD has improved to the point where he is solid on his own and can be awesome given a good apponent. Hell, Rob carried Taker to a good match last year, and while HHH did that that also (before the injury), I doubt he can do it now. Their upcoming match will be more than enough proof of how much he has regressed.

[Guest]

I've given up on the main event in general. The main event is, and ALWAYS will be about characters, not workrate. If the main event was ever more about ring ability than character, then it was purley accidental. The main event is what Vince and the writers base their entire sportz entertainment around, it is their answer to the soap opera. RVD, Lance Storm, Jeff Hardy and sadly Edge do not fit that demographic because they either have poor acting ability (RVD, Jeff Hardy) or have lame mid-card characters (Edge). I say, SCREW the main event. I was happiest watching the WWF when Angle was a dorky heel feuding over the Euro and IC belts. When Angle came on TV, that was my main event because that's what mattered to me most on the entire show. The main event only has meaning if you give it meaning, it is a phantom entity represented by a stupid gold belt which gets less and less meaningful each week. Besides, RVD is better used in the mid card where he can work his ass off and not have to worry about silly soap opera storylines, constant run ins, and perpetual DQ's.

RVD has fine acting ability. It's very limited, but it serves it's purpose. Charisma and acting ability are two different things anyway, methinks.

 

Around the time Angle was getting pushed as the IC/Euro champ, the main event was composed of Rock, HHH, and Cactus Jack who provided for some of the best wrestling matches the WWF has ever put on. Certainly better than the matches Angle was having at the time, including with guys like Jericho. Angle didn't become a better worker than HHH until some point in early 2001 anyway, and by then he was world champion.

I agree with you 100% that the main event was very good during the time you stated. However, can you really envision RVD in those kinds of storylines and matches and expect it to be even within the same county as those? RVD is no heel HHH, RVD is no Rock, and RVD is certainly no Cactus Jack.

 

However! I think RVD should have at least one feud over the unidsputed title, just for the hell of it. I just don't see Rob as a permanent main eventer though.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

Should RVD get a main event push?  Absolutely not.  At least until Benoit, Angle & Jericho are firmly entrenched there.  RVD is just not serious enough to ever be considered a threat to the main eventers.  He is very over, yet has limited drawing potential (thanks to a lame character and repetitive matches).  He reminds me of Scott Hall.  Hall was super over, and ruled the midcard, but he neither had the credibility nor the stability to main event consistently.  

 

Now, I am not saying that RVD should NEVER main event PPVs or anything like that.  I am simply saying that he should never be pushed to the level that Austin and company are at, because I believe he would be a miserable failure in that role.  RVD is best in the role he is at right now, top of the midcard.  Actually, it is probably best that he doesn't have exposure to the main eventers, because then his weaknesses would become far more glaring.  If you keep him at the top of the midcard, he can exist in his own little universe, where only his strengths are visible.

[Guest Coffin Surfer]

To whoever asked. What I meant by RVD has no business in the Main Event at his point in his career:

 

-I feel RVD would be in a much better role giving the IC title and the Midcard much needed credablitiy.  Remember the glory days of the WWF midcard with superover guys like Steamboat,Savage, Jake the Snake, and than Ultimate Warrior, Mr. Perfect, and Rick Rude.

 

-ME already is a very crowded mess. Its time for guys like HHH, Taker, Austin, to finally cleanly put over guys like Beniot, Eddy, Angle, and Jericho. First get them over, than start worring about RVD, Storm, and Edge(though he sucks).

 

-I aware RVD has had a career before WWF.  But most marks don't know that.  Just having him run in and shoot to the top, would be blowing their wad all at once.  Like they did with Angle.  

 

-Once RVD goes over all the top guys, whats left for him to do? Rehash the same boring fueds over and over.  The WWE needs to chill out, and give things more time.

[Guest]

ok first off, I knwo takers "star" ratings aren't benoit's, but no flash in the pan carries him.  He is a veteran who knows how to work a match and by no means did rvd carry him.  First off to carry someone, you need ability and psychology.  RVD has no psychology at all.  Its all just flip, kick, flip, jump,rest.  The only reason the rvd/taker matches were descent is because rvd bumped well, which is something everyone with athletic ability should do wevery time out.  You can't expect taker to take those bumps cause of his size.  I don;t want to explain it all but just trust me, rvd carries no one, unless its someone who really really sucks like test.

 

--Rob

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

ok first off, I knwo takers "star" ratings aren't benoit's, but no flash in the pan carries him.  He is a veteran who knows how to work a match and by no means did rvd carry him.  First off to carry someone, you need ability and psychology.  RVD has no psychology at all.  Its all just flip, kick, flip, jump,rest.  The only reason the rvd/taker matches were descent is because rvd bumped well, which is something everyone with athletic ability should do wevery time out.  You can't expect taker to take those bumps cause of his size.  I don;t want to explain it all but just trust me, rvd carries no one, unless its someone who really really sucks like test.

 

That's my personal opinion of RVD, but I was trying to speak from a business (ie impartial) perspective.  For anyone that cares.

[Guest]

i'm glad someone agrees with me, I sometimes feel like I am talking to a brick wall on this board.

 

--Rob

[Guest]

RVD carry someome through a match? I don't think so. RVD can make his opponent look good by A) supplying great spots B) bumping pretty well and C) making the fans care about the match and his opponent. However, when it comes down to actual wrestling, RVD's opponent is merley a vehicle to get him from spot to spot. Rewatch the ladder match from RAW. Eddy did 90% of the actual wrestling in the match in between RVD's moveset and spots.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

I don't like this whole "RVD shouldn't be ME until ___ is" bit. That's just as bad as HHH supposedly holding people down. The WWF needs something new right now. Saying that Rob can't get pushed until Jericho, Angle, and Benoit are already main eventers is just..

 

I think it's a Smark bias. Benoit is the Internet Darling, hands down, and Jericho/Angle are close behind. While we're talking glaring flaws, let's roll..

 

Benoit. He can't speak to save his life. I'm sure he can do HHH-like 'intense' promos (see RAW) but could he speak well enough to put over a feud? We'll see.

 

Jericho. His moveset looks all too lame against people taller than he is. I don't think he has the high-impactness he needs to main event. I'm a fan of the guy, but I don't know if he can handle it. Neither of his finishers are bought as legitimate. Try coming up with one for him? Not as easy as it sounds.

 

Angle. His goofy side is hillarious, yeah, but how many people with goofy characters have made it into the main event? Rock had to change. So did HHH. Jericho's trying..but we'll get to that later. Until Angle can pull a serious character both face and heel, I don't think he'll make it.

 

As far as the "flip, flop, spot" argument, replace it with "punch, kick, spot" and you've got almost anybody else on the roster. Isn't this just a little bs? Van Dam wrestles funny, so he shouldn't be pushed. Riight. Not everyone is going to be a technical wizard. Get over it. And as much as he "flip-flops" I'd rather see RVD in the ring than another punch-fest. (Austin, I'm looking at you.)

 

To straighten out their fed, the WWF has to grow a set of balls. Meaning pushing somebody who isn't in the direct path to super-stardom. Edge may make it, or he may not. Same with everyone else. But they could do a whole lot worse than putting the tile around RVD's waist.

 

Benoit marks would probably have a fit, of course, but I have a feeling it may stop the mass exodus of viewers away from the WWF. A strong title reign, with convincing wins, and a decent storyline would patch the blood flow.

 

It's a matter of building UP the main event. Elevating new people. Saying that RVD can't get there until so-and-so does is just a glass cieling in reverse.

 

Not much better than what HHH is "doing"..

 

-Shiro

 

*edit*

 

On Jericho..

 

A heel, even a cowardly one, needs convincing wins to build him up.

 

The WWF hasn't done that much for anyone in the last year not named "Austin".

[Guest Mole]

Right now, I don't think RVD should be on the main event level. Casual fans don't see him being that high. However, I think he should be pushed, so to be groomed for the ME level.

 

I have a few reasons why:

 

1) He is the number 2 babyface on Raw, behind Austin.

 

2)Since No Way Out, these how I rated his matches compared to Triple-H:

 

No Way Out, Goldust/RVD - **1/4

No Way Out, Angle/Triple-H - **1/4

RVD had Goldust, while Triple-H had Angle. If it weren't for Angle carrying HHH, this match wouldn't of been good.

 

WreslteMania, Regal/RVD - **3/4

WrestleMania, Jericho/Triple-H - ***

Triple-H did have a better match here, but RVD fought Regal, the man no one can seem to get a good match out of.

 

Backlash, Eddy/RVD - ***3/4

Backlash, Hogan/Triple-H - 3/4*

Well, RVD did have the better opponent. However, Rock faced Hogan at WM and got a *** match out of Hogan, so Triple-H sucks.

 

Judgement Day, Eddy/RVD - ****1/4

Judgement Day, Jericho/Triple-H - ***1/4

Both men had good opponents, but RVD had the better match by far.

 

3)He is something new and fresh to the main event level. He doesn't need the mic to get himself over, so he he a change from the norm.

 

4)Who else are you going to stick in there? More Triple-H? Taker? Hogan?

[Guest RickyChosyu]

ok first off, I knwo takers "star" ratings aren't benoit's, but no flash in the pan carries him.  He is a veteran who knows how to work a match and by no means did rvd carry him.  First off to carry someone, you need ability and psychology.  RVD has no psychology at all.  Its all just flip, kick, flip, jump,rest.  The only reason the rvd/taker matches were descent is because rvd bumped well, which is something everyone with athletic ability should do wevery time out.  You can't expect taker to take those bumps cause of his size.  I don;t want to explain it all but just trust me, rvd carries no one, unless its someone who really really sucks like test.

 

--Rob

I feel that you're wrong on the issue. I don't agree with your arguement of him lacking psychology and ability, and I don't agree with that as a deffinition of carrying anyway.

 

First of all, wrestlers don't have psychology, matches do. Wreslters do things that influence the psychology, but they themselves don't have it. Both of RVD's recent matches with Eddy have had psychology, ie: Eddy works RVD's leg so he can't climb the ladder, RVD works Eddy's back to prevent the frogsplash, RVD and Eddy are both unable to hit frogsplashes, so they try to steal quick wins. The list goes on. RVD's matches have had plenty of psychology.

 

Second, RVD has ability. He has the athletic ability to bump well for his apponents, and the mental ability to know when to hit his comebacks and when to sell for his apponent. That is ability to me.

 

Listen:

 

RVD kept the match moving at a pace that was barrable. He made the match. His selling, timing of his comebacks and match structure were all very good, and so he did carry the match. As long as he's been in the business, Taker is too broken down, and/or lazy to have good matches anymore. He sucks in the ring. He sold some of RVD's offense (albiet cartoonishly) and that's about it for his contribution to the match. He wasn't convincing, his brawling wasn't that hot, and he was generally bad at getting heel heat. RVD carried him.

[Guest]

ok first off, for taker not getting heel heat, for his character to be a heel it's tough cause it is similar to austin's as being a badass.  Shit you can only do with what is given to you.  As good as austin is, it was hard for him as well.  Secondly, wretlers make psychology, not matches.  Example would be rvd works on the leg, and forgets about it, or rvd gets his leg worked, and forgets to sell it later.  Spot wretlers cannot control tempos in matches, and when placed against other spot wrestlers, you just get a bunch of spots.  That can be good soemtimes, like tlc but for the most part you get crap like the rvd jeff hardy ladder match, which fuckin blew in all aspects.  ON top of that, spot wrestlers cannot hit their spots fluently aall the time, because of the degree of difficulty, therefore blown spots kill matches, another rvd downfall.  If RVD played his strengths and bumped like hell for whoever his opponent is and hit easier spots throughout the match, saving his bigger spots for more important matches, he might squeez into the me.  But for now he is spotty like a motherfucker, with no hopes to put it together.  I mean seriously, thats why foley was the man, cause he bumped like hell and his his few spots in between.  He wasn't what you call the average wrestler, but he made it work just like I said.  Jeff Hardy never figured it out, and I doubt rvd will since he has done his same shit since 97.  Well oh well, lets move onto the next guy.

 

--Rob

[Guest alfdogg]

Not to be an asshole, but can we PLEASE give this "RVD's talent" argument a rest?  It's annoying as shit, and no one's opinion is going to be swayed.  

 

BTW, Flyboy, *I* thought the *points to Steph's vagina* line was pretty funny.