Guest Report post Posted February 4, 2006 I'd like you to tell me which players were in that deal, coming from Detroit. Also, Frye and Lee don't play like PF's. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brett Favre 0 Report post Posted February 4, 2006 How is a power forward supposed to play like? And I think the Hawks got like Bob Sura, Chucky Atkins, Rebraca and some other scrubs. Expiring contracts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted February 4, 2006 I thought Rasheed was the expiring contract in that whole deal. Still nothing good. Boston got Atkins, Atlanta got Rebraca and Sura. Granted, we are talking about an inept organization in Atlanta, so that wasn't the best example. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brett Favre 0 Report post Posted February 4, 2006 It was from a trade like 6-7 years ago. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted February 4, 2006 Ok, I forgot. Look one post up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brett Favre 0 Report post Posted February 4, 2006 Another one is Stephon getting traded to the Knicks . I'll look up some more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dangerous A 0 Report post Posted February 4, 2006 What's the purpose of a salary cap if you're obscenely over it? I'm serious. I have no grasp of NBA economics. It seems like their cap is circumvented so much that it might as well not even be there. The Knicks end up paying out of the nose in the form of a luxury tax hit. That effects the busines portion of the Knicks because all their revenue would go to paying the luxury tax. Some teams (think Lakers) or owners (think Mark Cuban or the Maloofs) can absorb a decent cap hit for a year or two, but after awhile they start scaling back because they are now not making any money. Take the Lakers for example. They could go out and spend a shitload of money to get the help Kobe needs. Thing is, they are already $30 million over the salary cap and it'll keep growing as players contracts start to balloon in their later years (Kobe, Odom) Jerry Buss has already taken a decent luxury tax hit with the Payton/Malone debacle and isn't looking to do it again for awhile. Or until public pressure from season ticket holders and fans start to get to management about how come the Lakers aren't contending for a championship. What do you do? Do you cave in and go over the salary cap to get to that championship level? Or do you try to build something out of what you got and hope guys like Vujicic and Bynum start to pay off while not killing you with salary? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted February 4, 2006 No, Phoenix knew what they were doing with that one. Minnesota did too, as did New Jersey. Buss is pretty much against even touching the luxury tax, can't say I blame him, but at the same time, he's gonna have to if he wants to win. I'm fine with where the payroll is now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brett Favre 0 Report post Posted February 4, 2006 Here are some more: Baron Davis to the Warriors. Keith Van Horn to the Mavericks. Antonie Walker back to the Celtics. Rahim and Ratliff to the Blazers (for Sheed that year). Jamal Crawford sign and trade to the Knicks. You're saying Marbury isn't a good player? Or teams who trade for expiring contracts don't know what they're doing? I don't understand. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dangerous A 0 Report post Posted February 4, 2006 How is a power forward supposed to play like? And I think the Hawks got like Bob Sura, Chucky Atkins, Rebraca and some other scrubs. Expiring contracts. Didn't Atlanta also get the expiring contract of Terrell Brandon a couple years ago? Damn shame what happened to Terrell Brandon. He was just about the best 5'10 player this side of Damon Stoudamire. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheech Tremendous 0 Report post Posted February 4, 2006 So no more than two or three days ago I was in an argument in this very thread over my concerns of Isiah as a GM. I said he was short-sighted and that the Knicks would never recover under his watch because he would keep taking back bad contracts creating a perputual system of mediocrity. However, several Knicks fans jumped on me, saying that they were optimistic for the future. I dropped the argument. What happens a couple days later? He trades for Jalen F'n Rose and his monstrocity of a contract.cd Can someone let Mr. Thomas know that he's not playing in a Rotissirie league? You don't create a winning ballclub by adding 30-year old mediocre talents with bloated contracts on the downside of their career. Thomas continues to make lateral moves. He makes a trade that keeps the Knicks in the papers, but doesn't make them any better in the short or long term. They trade their lottery pick from this year and Knicks fan says it's okay because there are no good talents in the draft. They acquire a late round pick and Knicks fan says it's great because Thomas knows how to draft. This makes no sense to me. Did anyone consult Larry Brown on this trade? In his one year playing for Brown, Rose had career lows in points and minutes per game. He described it as the worst time of his life. So the Knicks will be suddenly better by adding a shoot first SF with a bad attitude on a team close to mutiny? How anyone sees this as a good trade is beyond me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brett Favre 0 Report post Posted February 4, 2006 I think so. It had something to do with him having to retire, so the contract was going to be void. That sucked. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brett Favre 0 Report post Posted February 4, 2006 No, Curry is better than anyone in the draft coming out, which is why that trade where we gave up that first rounder was fine. More like if we had to give up the first rounder for Curry, i'd do it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted February 4, 2006 Here are some more: Baron Davis to the Warriors. Keith Van Horn to the Mavericks. Antonie Walker back to the Celtics. Rahim and Ratliff to the Blazers (for Sheed that year). Jamal Crawford sign and trade to the Knicks. You're saying Marbury isn't a good player? Or teams who trade for expiring contracts don't know what they're doing? I don't understand. I'm saying that it's a bad move to make because it's a big risk. There's no guarantee that you're going to get that free agent guy, which is the whole point of doing so and none of these teams that took the expiring contracts actually made the big free agent signing they hoped for (besides Joe Johnson, who Atlanta overpaid for). The team that doesn't receive the better player is the one that I'm talking about making a dumb mistake. In this case, Toronto. I don't think overloading your team with guys with huge contracts like the Knicks are doing is particularly smart either. And it's quite obvious to see that every team that trades Marbury gets better. There's a reason for that. Maybe he doesn't buy into the team concept? Regarding power forwards, they should be able to play in the post. Lee won't be able to do that, Frye could develop good post skill and Mo Taylor is Mo Taylor. Why the Rockets gave him a big deal, I'll never know. I knew he was a fraud when he played for the Clips. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brett Favre 0 Report post Posted February 4, 2006 The Bucks saved enough money to resign Redd, and sign Bobby Simmons. The others just saved more money. With a crazy ass free agent class coming up next year though, I think more teams will look for expiring contracts. Are people like Dennis Rodman, Danny Fortson and Kurt Thomas not power forwards? Lee is going to be that type of player. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted February 4, 2006 Bobby Simmons is a fraud too. On that note, the Clips haven't really let anyone of note go, so they usually do the right thing in regards to not signing everyone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
naiwf 0 Report post Posted February 4, 2006 So no more than two or three days ago I was in an argument in this very thread over my concerns of Isiah as a GM. I said he was short-sighted and that the Knicks would never recover under his watch because he would keep taking back bad contracts creating a perputual system of mediocrity. However, several Knicks fans jumped on me, saying that they were optimistic for the future. I dropped the argument. What happens a couple days later? He trades for Jalen F'n Rose and his monstrocity of a contract.cd Can someone let Mr. Thomas know that he's not playing in a Rotissirie league? You don't create a winning ballclub by adding 30-year old mediocre talents with bloated contracts on the downside of their career. Thomas continues to make lateral moves. He makes a trade that keeps the Knicks in the papers, but doesn't make them any better in the short or long term. They trade their lottery pick from this year and Knicks fan says it's okay because there are no good talents in the draft. They acquire a late round pick and Knicks fan says it's great because Thomas knows how to draft. This makes no sense to me. Did anyone consult Larry Brown on this trade? In his one year playing for Brown, Rose had career lows in points and minutes per game. He described it as the worst time of his life. So the Knicks will be suddenly better by adding a shoot first SF with a bad attitude on a team close to mutiny? How anyone sees this as a good trade is beyond me. I hear you man. I hear you. Knicks fans are just too fucking optimistic when there's really no reason to be. It'll be at least 2010 or 2011 before they even sniff the 2nd round of the playoffs, and probably a decade or two before they clean this situation up and contend for a title again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brett Favre 0 Report post Posted February 4, 2006 You guys are too pesimistic when there's no reason to be. Six years ago the Pistons were what you would call a team that's going to stay mediocre for a while, not too bad, not too good, and with the Grant Hill trade, they suddenly started to build something nice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted February 4, 2006 Well, at least they had a good player in Hill when they were mediocre. The Knicks are in big trouble and Toronto is too, albeit for different reasons. The key here is probably trading Marbury, every team gets better when they do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
naiwf 0 Report post Posted February 4, 2006 You guys are too pesimistic when there's no reason to be. Six years ago the Pistons were what you would call a team that's going to stay mediocre for a while, not too bad, not too good, and with the Grant Hill trade, they suddenly started to build something nice. 2000 50-32 2nd, Atlantic Division Lost East Conf Finals 2001 48-34 3rd, Atlantic Division Lost East Conf 1st Rd --- the end of the "glory days"--- 2002 30-52 7th, Atlantic Division 2003 37-45 5th, Atlantic Division 2004 39-43 3rd, Atlantic Division Lost East Conf 1st Rd 2005 33-49 4th, Atlantic Division What about the last 4 years gives you any cause to be optimistic? Keep in mind we're like $100 million over the cap, have a shitty team and currently have the 3rd worst record in the league at 14-30. The Knicks don't have a single player any GOOD team would trade for. They don't have a plan in place as evidenced by taking in Q and Rose in trades, signing Jerome James and digging the hole even deeper. The Knicks shouldn't want to be lovable losers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted February 4, 2006 The Knicks don't have a single player any GOOD team would trade for. They don't have a plan in place as evidenced by taking in Q and Rose in trades, signing Jerome James and digging the hole even deeper. The Knicks shouldn't want to be lovable losers. They do have one good guy. Nate Robinson. Their other guy's contract is too big, that would be Curry. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheech Tremendous 0 Report post Posted February 4, 2006 You guys are too pesimistic when there's no reason to be. Six years ago the Pistons were what you would call a team that's going to stay mediocre for a while, not too bad, not too good, and with the Grant Hill trade, they suddenly started to build something nice. 2000 50-32 2nd, Atlantic Division Lost East Conf Finals 2001 48-34 3rd, Atlantic Division Lost East Conf 1st Rd --- the end of the "glory days"--- 2002 30-52 7th, Atlantic Division 2003 37-45 5th, Atlantic Division 2004 39-43 3rd, Atlantic Division Lost East Conf 1st Rd 2005 33-49 4th, Atlantic Division What about the last 4 years gives you any cause to be optimistic? Keep in mind we're like $100 million over the cap, have a shitty team and currently have the 3rd worst record in the league at 14-30. The Knicks don't have a single player any GOOD team would trade for. They don't have a plan in place as evidenced by taking in Q and Rose in trades, signing Jerome James and digging the hole even deeper. The Knicks shouldn't want to be lovable losers. Wow, you illustrated that perfectly. The Knicks are getting worse each year while going further and further over the cap. They have nobody of even All-Star quality on their team at this point. There is no upside. Looking at the above referenced post, make a reasonable argument as to how Isiah Thomas has improved this team. The proof is in the numbers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dangerous A 0 Report post Posted February 4, 2006 No, Curry is better than anyone in the draft coming out, which is why that trade where we gave up that first rounder was fine. Personally, I think LaMarcus Aldridge will be a better player than Curry, but that's just me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted February 4, 2006 What exactly has Curry done to constitute his "being a better player" than anyone in the draft? We aren't talking about a LeBron James or Kobe Bryant, this is Eddy Curry. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brett Favre 0 Report post Posted February 4, 2006 Well, he's about the same age as the top picks, and I feel like he'll be better than any of them. It's tougher to find a center with a low post game like his than what you'll find at the top of the draft. I'm optimistic because we now have young players. Those Layden teams of the past 3 years or so, we had no future. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted February 4, 2006 Doesn't a dominant center always need a sidekick? New York will never have the guy that can put them over the top, it's just going to be a bunch of role players and Curry, if he matures into that guy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheech Tremendous 0 Report post Posted February 4, 2006 What exactly has Curry done to constitute his "being a better player" than anyone in the draft? We aren't talking about a LeBron James or Kobe Bryant, this is Eddy Curry. This is the same Eddy Curry who no team in the league (except our beloved Knicks) would touch with a ten foot pole last summer. Suddenly this guy is some kind of star? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobobrazil1984 0 Report post Posted February 4, 2006 Toronto already has two 1st round picks this draft, which is why they were willing to give up this one (which would have been their 3rd 1st rounder in this draft). This according to the guys ESPN. As far as the Knicks go, I think Rose is a decent addition who could help them. I was kinda hoping in the off-season that Dumars could get Jalen Rose as our backup swingman (but I am happy with Delfino/Evans combo so far). Still, the Knicks don't seem to have any sense of what kind of team they're building. its been that way all along, pieces and assets. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brett Favre 0 Report post Posted February 4, 2006 Doesn't a dominant center always need a sidekick? New York will never have the guy that can put them over the top, it's just going to be a bunch of role players and Curry, if he matures into that guy. I think Frye can be that guy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
