Does Triple H even want to be a heel?

[CanadianChick 0]

You still can't deny, even if you think Orton is a horrid wrestler, has negative charisma and bad mic skills, that he is a victim of creative.

 

He was a super cool heel when the fans began cheering for him. He was a cocky son of a bitch who was hot shit and he knew it. So, logically, he'd stay confident when he turns face, right? Well, that didn't quite happen, as we all know. He was a generic babyface who was pandering to the crowd.

 

Then they realize their mistake and turn him heel again. Alright, cool. But now he's Taker's bitch. Not so cool. He actually CRIED in the ring during Taker's stupid ass "special effects". That is NO way to book anyone.

[Guest Dam(o)nYankees]

Then they realize their mistake and turn him heel again. Alright, cool. But now he's Taker's bitch. Not so cool. He actually CRIED in the ring during Taker's stupid ass "special effects". That is NO way to book anyone.

To be fair, Orton is such a bad actor that most of the time I couldn't figure out what emotion he was trying to convey without help from Tazz and Cole. I can't imagine I'm the only one. Maybe people didnt realize he was supposed to be crying.

 

And they TRIED making him the hot shit face. He was spitting in people's faces and running them down with pictures and generally getting the better of Evolution every week. Unfortunately, he was an awful babyface, to the point where he started working the GOD DAMN CHINLOCK into his babyface spots. And his promos got worse and even more flustered than usual, to the point where he was promoting Unforgiven as himself vs. Kane on one show.

 

He has no one to blame but himself.

[2GOLD 0]

You still can't deny, even if you think Orton is a horrid wrestler, has negative charisma and bad mic skills, that he is a victim of creative.

 

He was a super cool heel when the fans began cheering for him. He was a cocky son of a bitch who was hot shit and he knew it. So, logically, he'd stay confident when he turns face, right? Well, that didn't quite happen, as we all know. He was a generic babyface who was pandering to the crowd.

 

Then they realize their mistake and turn him heel again. Alright, cool. But now he's Taker's bitch. Not so cool. He actually CRIED in the ring during Taker's stupid ass "special effects". That is NO way to book anyone.

 

As much as he bores me, Orton was just creative fuck-up number 100345 on the list. I still think he would have worked better as the asshole jock or even the gimmick Masters is in somewhat altered of course. Orton has got the cocky down, I will never disputed that about him.

[CanadianChick 0]

 

 

Then they realize their mistake and turn him heel again. Alright, cool. But now he's Taker's bitch. Not so cool. He actually CRIED in the ring during Taker's stupid ass "special effects". That is NO way to book anyone.

To be fair, Orton is such a bad actor that most of the time I couldn't figure out what emotion he was trying to convey without help from Tazz and Cole. I can't imagine I'm the only one. Maybe people didnt realize he was supposed to be crying.

 

And they TRIED making him the hot shit face. He was spitting in people's faces and running them down with pictures and generally getting the better of Evolution every week. Unfortunately, he was an awful babyface, to the point where he started working the GOD DAMN CHINLOCK into his babyface spots. And his promos got worse and even more flustered than usual, to the point where he was promoting Unforgiven as himself vs. Kane on one show.

 

He has no one to blame but himself.

 

What? I wasn't talking ONCE about his acting skills. Stop taking potshots that have nothing to do with the issue.

 

He was actually crying in the ring. They booked him to be THAT scared of crappy special effects. That has nothing to do with his acting, his wrestling, or even nothing to do with him. That was creative booking a wrestler to be so much of a pussy, that he cries in the dark. That's horrid booking.

 

And they didn't try to make him a hot shit face in the slightest. He was hot shit for a week, when he spat in Hunter's face. Then he was just another face against HHH, just like every face against HHH is booked. Then he was one of 4 faces on the Survivor Series team, who magically got along with everyone despite JUST BEING A HEEL. Then he randomly saved a damsel in distress. If that isn't generic babyface, I don't know what is. Saving some chick is not "hot shit face" at all. It was terrible booking.

[Guest Dam(o)nYankees]

And they didn't try to make him a hot shit face in the slightest. He was hot shit for a week, when he spat in Hunter's face. Then he was just another face against HHH, just like every face against HHH is booked. Then he was one of 4 faces on the Survivor Series team, who magically got along with everyone despite JUST BEING A HEEL. Then he randomly saved a damsel in distress. If that isn't generic babyface, I don't know what is. Saving some chick is not "hot shit face" at all. It was terrible booking.

What is a hotshit face then? Because we have different definitions, I suppose. I saw a cocky bastard who constantly humiliated and outsmarted the smarmy heel throughout. He called people his bitch, he spit at people, dropping sledges on Bischoff's foot, he constantly thwarted multi-man beatdowns.

 

Now if we're going to start to consider as late as Survivor Series, you have to factor in that he was already a horribly failed babyface champion. It wasn't working (mainly do to his inability to cut a good hotshit face promo, but thats not creatives fault) by the time Survivor Series rolled around the initial babyface push had bombed and they had to try something different, namely associate him with the top faces on the roster in hopes that it would rub off.

[Dangerous A 0]

Creative's fault was hotshotting the turn right after Summerslam. While there was a section of the audience that cheered Orton because he was booked as such a strong heel from WMXX up past Summerslam, there was never a real reason for fans to get behind Orton except HHH doesn't like him anymore. That isn't going to cut it.

 

Now that said, Orton's lack of promo ability may have hurt him in the end and even if they turned Orton at the right time, he may still have failed. However, Batista isn't a good promo (at least he wasnt' the time he was in Evolution and a little after he left to chase the belt) and his turn and program with HHH was money. It's all about timing and creative fucked up the hotshot turn of Orton, plain and simple.

[Guest Dam(o)nYankees]

Now that said, Orton's lack of promo ability may have hurt him in the end and even if they turned Orton at the right time, he may still have failed. However, Batista isn't a good promo (at least he wasnt' the time he was in Evolution and a little after he left to chase the belt)

He's not a good twenty minute promo, but his natural charisma (again, a HUGE Orton problem) made up for that since he was able to react to people in a way that got him over.

 

And while "heel gets kicked out of heel group, now cheer him!" isn't ideal, it has worked in the past. Booker became one of the top faces on the show when he got booted from the nWo. The horsemen did this several times. The fact that Orton couldn't get over I think is more a testament to the talent than the booking.

[jester 0]

He was actually crying in the ring. They booked him to be THAT scared of crappy special effects. That has nothing to do with his acting, his wrestling, or even nothing to do with him. That was creative booking a wrestler to be so much of a pussy, that he cries in the dark. That's horrid booking.

 

 

Yeah, and what made it even worse was the fact that Orton CHALLENGED THE UNDERTAKER to begin with. If you shit yourself when you hear his entrance music, why would you go and seek him out for a match?

 

HHH and Taker cover the spectrum of bad heel/face dynamics.

 

HHH doesn't give a face any leeway against him.

 

UT doesn't let heels get any leeway against him.

[BigDawgCarl 0]

Just because HHH is comfortable on the mic and is clear and concise does not make him good at promos. As many people have pointed out, he has been saying the same thing since, what, 2002? He's cutting the same promo on John Cena leading up to Wrestlemania in 2006 that he cut on RVD leading up to Unforgiven 2002. It shows lack of creativity, and his working the crowd during a promo (Other than cheap heat like, "Do you people want to see this match tonight?" "YEEAAH!" "Too bad!" "BOOO!") is terrible.

 

And yes, he can cut a money promo, but they don't stand out for me because his typical, boring promos are underlying it.

 

Thank you...he tends to alienate the crowd whenever he cuts a promo...big mistake. That's why all his promos sound like long-winded stories.

[Si82 0]

Creative's fault was hotshotting the turn right after Summerslam. While there was a section of the audience that cheered Orton because he was booked as such a strong heel from WMXX up past Summerslam, there was never a real reason for fans to get behind Orton except HHH doesn't like him anymore. That isn't going to cut it.

I have to agree with this. I see this as being the main factor behind the downfall of Randy Orton. I was really starting to enjoy his work as the cocky prick champion since he won the intercontinental championship from Rob Van Dam.

 

However, the night after Summerslam, when he was kicked out of Evolution, was the kiss of death for the guy. I think WWE should have done the kind of slow-burn storyline that they later did with Batista. I think it would have given him a lot more momentum as a face. I mean, the guy needed help as a face because he sucked at it. He seems to be a much better heel because, from all reports, he seems to be a prick backstage.

 

I can't agree with the terrible promo skills thing because, although he does fluff his lines now and then, I don't he's that terrible on the mic.

[Silence 0]

Here's another question: Since John Cena and Randy Orton are both better off as heels, who would most people prefer to be the face in a future feud against each other (if they improve in the ring, of course)?

 

Cena's act has been annoying as a face, and Randy Orton's face run really sucked, so I think that would be a tough decision.

[Si82 0]

Here's another question: Since John Cena and Randy Orton are both better off as heels, who would most people prefer to be the face in a future feud against each other (if they improve in the ring, of course)?

 

Cena's act has been annoying as a face, and Randy Orton's face run really sucked, so I think that would be a tough decision.

Cena. He may be annoying as a face but he's still far better than a face Orton.

[Black Lushus 0]

if they would just give Cena that edge back, it wouldn't matter.

[Matt Young 0]

He was promoting Unforgiven as himself vs. Kane on one show.

 

What.

[Guest Dam(o)nYankees]

 

 

 

He was promoting Unforgiven as himself vs. Kane on one show.

 

What.

The Raw before Unforgiven, he had a match with Kane. In the promo, he started hyping up his world title match at Unforgiven...with Kane. And it wasnt just one line. He completely confused the whole thing.

 

And when he doesn't fuck up his lines, he is one BORING promo.

[Guest Rrrsh]

In the ring, Cena is 100 times better as a face than a heel.

 

Its just that WWE is lazy/stupid and cant give him an edgy charicter as a face.

[Guest Dam(o)nYankees]

In the ring, Cena is 100 times better as a face than a heel.

 

Its just that WWE is lazy/stupid and cant give him an edgy charicter as a face.

I dont know if that's more of a situation where as a heel he feuded with Rikishi and Brock Lesnar (who had ZERO chemistry with him) while as a face he's fought some of the better workers in the company to some success.

[CanadianChick 0]

In the ring, Cena is 100 times better as a face than a heel.

 

Its just that WWE is lazy/stupid and cant give him an edgy charicter as a face.

 

I'd agree for the pure fact that he's good at getting his ass kicked, and not much else.

 

Too bad he's kissing babies and pandering.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

At this rate, I hope Orton wins because after being fucked by creative so far, the guy deserves another run with the title.

 

Here's another question: Since John Cena and Randy Orton are both better off as heels, who would most people prefer to be the face in a future feud against each other (if they improve in the ring, of course)?

 

Cena's act has been annoying as a face, and Randy Orton's face run really sucked, so I think that would be a tough decision.

 

Cena, he lasted wayyy longer as a face than Orton before they each got turned on by the crowd.