AndrewTS 0 Report post Posted December 3, 2006 I don't mind the rupee message, because at least it's not an every single time thing. What I find a tad more annoying is that the special chests (compass, map, boss key, weapon) that automatically morph you back to human link, and how warping morphs you to wolf form. I understand logically you can only morph in wolf form, but would be nice if you could automatically morph back to human form upon landing. Otherwise, you have to usually run and hide to morph back to wolf form. Wolf form has grown on me, though. I often use it when I just need to cover short distances fast but don't have an immediately available way of summoning Epona. I found it easier to beat Redead Knights with wolf form, provided you aren't swamped by Stalfoses. Shame that the standard wolf attack pretty much sucks, especially compared to the Master Sword. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZGangsta 0 Report post Posted December 4, 2006 So what's the deal with the Gorons and the hot springwater? I paid the 1000 rupees to repair the bridge and the guy who was sitting there now wants some hot springwater, same with the guy hanging around the rock wall at the south entrance to Castle Town. How do you get the springwater there fast enough so it doesn't get cold. I went to Death Mountain, bottled some, warped to the closest possible spot and ran but it still took too long. Also, I just got to the desert (kind of weird how it's RIGHT on the edge of Lake Hylia) and I only have 2 bottles, have I missed any? Oh yeah, and what's the deal with those owl statues scattered all over the place? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Invictus 0 Report post Posted December 4, 2006 So what's the deal with the Gorons and the hot springwater? I paid the 1000 rupees to repair the bridge and the guy who was sitting there now wants some hot springwater, same with the guy hanging around the rock wall at the south entrance to Castle Town. How do you get the springwater there fast enough so it doesn't get cold. I went to Death Mountain, bottled some, warped to the closest possible spot and ran but it still took too long. Also, I just got to the desert (kind of weird how it's RIGHT on the edge of Lake Hylia) and I only have 2 bottles, have I missed any? Oh yeah, and what's the deal with those owl statues scattered all over the place? Talk to the old Goron outside of Malo Mart for the spring water you need to use, this will also give you a discount on Malo's fee to open the shop in Castle Town from 2000 rupees to 200 rupees. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Invictus 0 Report post Posted December 5, 2006 So I just beat Zelda, it took about 56 hours or so. That said, I took my time to enjoy it and didn't rush, but I also didn't finish all the side-quests either. Surprising things abound, I won't spoil anything for anyone, but I personally feel that now that I have fully experienced the game, it absolutely beats OoT into the ground. If you think OoT is a better game, please take off the nostalgia colored glasses. Oh, and Jeff Gerstmann was wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
World's Worst Man 0 Report post Posted December 5, 2006 Are we now at a point where nostalgia is applicable to 5th gen games? I guess I no longer have to worry about 16-bit era fanboys who complain that people only liked FFVII because of the graphics. Colour me confused about the OoT shot though. I mean c'mon, TP and OoT are basically the same game. TP's advantage is the crummy, uninteresting wolf gimmick (so not really an advantage) and a better plot. OoT's advantage is that it came out 10 years ago when the formula hadn't been played out already. Oh well, I'll take Wind Waker's better control and generally more interesting world anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lightning Flik 0 Report post Posted December 5, 2006 A lot of people were turned off by Wind Waker's locale, so Nintendo went back to the old formula to make sure the original fans didn't get pissed off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewTS 0 Report post Posted December 5, 2006 Are we now at a point where nostalgia is applicable to 5th gen games? I guess I no longer have to worry about 16-bit era fanboys who complain that people only liked FFVII because of the graphics. Graphics and being RPG noobs. A lot of people were turned off by Wind Waker's locale, so Nintendo went back to the old formula to make sure the original fans didn't get pissed off. The problem wasn't the locale--the problem was that Wind Waker's "formula" really, really sucked. I'm actually looking forward to Phantom Hourglass, because I like both Links. Chibi-Link couldn't help it his game was dragged down by long stretches of really dull gameplay. Colour me confused about the OoT shot though. I mean c'mon, TP and OoT are basically the same game. TP's advantage is the crummy, uninteresting wolf gimmick (so not really an advantage) and a better plot. OoT's advantage is that it came out 10 years ago when the formula hadn't been played out already. Oh well, I'll take Wind Waker's better control and generally more interesting world anyway. Wind Waker? Seriously? Aunoma and Shiggy are both very disappointed in that game and probably would rank it at the bottom of the 3D Zelda pecking order. I fail to see the "better control" when Wind Waker constantly--and I mean *constantly* required you to juggle items in and out of your inventory. Case in point: setting sail required you to equip your sail, equip the Wind Waker and often equip your grapping hook. Usually you had to swap out the boomerang, and at least one other subweapon to do this. And after arriving at your destination or making a stop, you usually had to swap out *again*. A lot of times while sailing you'd need to swap in your bombs or arrows to defend yourself. I almost never have to go to a subscreen in Twilight Princess to swap out my items, and when I do it's standard prepping for the next dungeon. Aunoma wanted to outdo OOT with TP. And based on the control, enemy design, art design, gameplay variety, combat, difficulty, dungeon layouts and balance, and plot I'd say he succeeded. The fact that many details of the world, several characters and a lot of the core concepts are shared are part and parcel of that. Zelda games, get this, share a lot of characters, weapons, gameplay ideas, etc. They're supposed to. It's like griping that a Castlevania game has a Belmont, Dracula, and the classic subweapons in them still. It's a shame the game wasn't a complete reinvention like the new Spyro and Sonic games. Those are real winners, huh? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Invictus 0 Report post Posted December 5, 2006 TP and OoT are not the same game. They share a lot of the same things, but still, TP takes the formula created by OoT, changes a bunch of things overall, adds a far more compelling and cinematic storyline and refines the hell out of the rest. OoT was more of a groundbreaking game for it's time, but to lambast TP for taking that formula that 80% of the gaming populace was clamoring for when Wind Waker was released is stupid, and I'm tired of seeing it. This is the last game you're going to see like this anyways, according to Miyamoto, the next Zelda will likely be something built from the ground up with the Wii in mind and will most likely be something crazy. Oh, and I enjoyed Wind Waker a lot, personally, and I liked the style because it was truly one of the best uses of celshading I've seen, even to this day. But TP is what majority of the fans were clamoring for, and then when Nintendo delivers it, they shouldn't be whining that it's too much like OoT, because that is exactly what they ask for every time the series deviates from that formula (Majora's Mask, Wind Waker). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewTS 0 Report post Posted December 5, 2006 But TP is what majority of the fans were clamoring for, and then when Nintendo delivers it, they shouldn't be whining that it's too much like OoT, because that is exactly what they ask for every time the series deviates from that formula (Majora's Mask, Wind Waker). Don't look at me. I think Majora was brilliant; it just wasn't as accessible as Ocarina. Wind Waker was beautiful and filled with lots of great ideas. Hell, the music is better than Twilight Princess, IMO. It's a shame that the gameplay had so many problems and the overall product was so rushed. Anyone who dismissed "Celda" because of the graphics/character designs is an idiot. Anyone who swears up and down it's a fantastic game with little or no flaws isn't the sharpest tool in the shed either, though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Invictus 0 Report post Posted December 5, 2006 Either way, I think we're gonna be hearing a lot of "This isn't enough like OoT/TP!" cries, probably from the same people who say TP is just a rehash of OoT right now, when the next game comes out. I'm glad to see them pushing the games into a more cinematic presentation though, I was pleasantly surprised overall with the whole story in TP, the next game should be even better in that respect for sure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
World's Worst Man 0 Report post Posted December 5, 2006 Wind Waker? Seriously? Aunoma and Shiggy are both very disappointed in that game and probably would rank it at the bottom of the 3D Zelda pecking order. I fail to see the "better control" when Wind Waker constantly--and I mean *constantly* required you to juggle items in and out of your inventory. Case in point: setting sail required you to equip your sail, equip the Wind Waker and often equip your grapping hook. Usually you had to swap out the boomerang, and at least one other subweapon to do this. And after arriving at your destination or making a stop, you usually had to swap out *again*. A lot of times while sailing you'd need to swap in your bombs or arrows to defend yourself. I almost never have to go to a subscreen in Twilight Princess to swap out my items, and when I do it's standard prepping for the next dungeon. Surely the developers being disappointed with it proves that the game wasn't any good. Maybe they were disappointed it didn't sell well, ostensibly because Zelda fans tend to be fairly adverse to change. I'll take tighter control (better hit detection, in combat or otherwise, less of a "loose" feel when moving, making it easier to navigate small pathways and the like) and a slightly more in-depth combat system (WW had something of a combo system and more special moves I believe) over having to switch items out a little bit more frequently, thank you very much. Plus a more epic and interesting world (large worldmap, lots of out of the way places to explore), and less of a cookie cutter approach in general. TP and OoT are not the same game. They share a lot of the same things, but still, TP takes the formula created by OoT, changes a bunch of things overall, adds a far more compelling and cinematic storyline and refines the hell out of the rest. OoT was more of a groundbreaking game for it's time, but to lambast TP for taking that formula that 80% of the gaming populace was clamoring for when Wind Waker was released is stupid, and I'm tired of seeing it. 80% of Zelda fans also seem to be idiots who get offended at an 8.8 score for one of "their" games. I don't think the fact that they're clamoring for cookie cutter gameplay really proves that the game is any good. It's a smart move on Nintendo, since they don't have to be creative with the gameplay, but that's really not what I was getting at. I pretty much don't like the formula anymore, as I believe it's been played out. Add to that the hack and slash gameplay that is done much better by pure action games, and the story and exploration that is done much better by RPGs, and I don't see a lot to get excited about anymore. I don't even know what they could do with the gameplay to make it more interesting, short of fundamentally changing how the game is played. And I can imagine how that would end. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewTS 0 Report post Posted December 5, 2006 Surely the developers being disappointed with it proves that the game wasn't any good. Maybe they were disappointed it didn't sell well, ostensibly because Zelda fans tend to be fairly adverse to change. It did sell well, so that's not the reason. They explicitly stated the lack of dungeons and the "dull" Triforce fetch quest were the main reasons they were disappointed with it. I'll take tighter control (better hit detection, in combat or otherwise, less of a "loose" feel when moving, making it easier to navigate small pathways and the like) Specific examples? I'm not following you. The wolf form definitely doesn't seem to be as tight and refined as Ammy or human Link, but I haven't noticed any other collision problems other than the occasional clunky navigation underwater (which is a moot point since you never went below kiddie pool level in WW anyway). And you had problems "navigating small pathways" in TP? Where and how? Is it the game or it just the fact that WW's Link is like half the size? and a slightly more in-depth combat system (WW had something of a combo system and more special moves I believe) If you think Kingdom Hearts 2 has a "more in-depth" combat system, maybe. The biggest addition was WW's context-sensitive commands--pretty much the dodge and counter-attack. TP has similar inclusions and more, but they require more skill. Plus a more epic and interesting world (large worldmap, lots of out of the way places to explore "Hey, is that just a barren rock? Or another 20 yard long island with an underground area?" ...*after sailing there and examining* "Nope, barren rock. Awesome!" ...*sails some more* "Hey, a column of light! More rupees that I'll need to pay to Tingle for his outrageously high deciphering fee which is another lame attempt to pad this game out! Awesome!" 80% of Zelda fans also seem to be idiots who get offended at an 8.8 score for one of "their" games. I don't think the fact that they're clamoring for cookie cutter gameplay really proves that the game is any good. It's a smart move on Nintendo, since they don't have to be creative with the gameplay, but that's really not what I was getting at. "Cookie cutter gameplay" like the new hidden skills, horseback battles, the improved movement and aiming made possible by the new controls, the flight minigames, more realistic fishing, sumo wrestling, jousts, the new gadgets, the "lame" wolf's heightened senses, right? If you have to make a point of it about how stupid you think the fanbase is, you have no point. I pretty much don't like the formula anymore, as I believe it's been played out. Your vague, repetitive statements are played out. Was the game some massive letdown for you, and if so why? Surely there was plenty enough information for you to draw your conclusions on before getting the game, since your gripes are rather superficial and you had plenty enough information to make an informed buying decision months ahead of time. Add to that the hack and slash gameplay that is done much better by pure action games, and the story and exploration that is done much better by RPGs, and I don't see a lot to get excited about anymore. I don't even know what they could do with the gameplay to make it more interesting, short of fundamentally changing how the game is played. And I can imagine how that would end The fact that you're criticizing a Zelda game for lack of creativity while praising RPGs is ridiculous. Only a bare minimum of AAA+ RPGs make more than the most minute attempts at creativity. Poor baby, 3 prior 3D Zelda games with different stories and massively different gameplay structures have wore you out on this "Ocarina clone." RPGs, damnit, they're still fresh, 9,999 nigh-indistinguishable games later. Did you love Dragon Quest VIII's utterly Stone Age gameplay, too? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
World's Worst Man 0 Report post Posted December 5, 2006 "Cookie Cutter gameplay" like the new hidden skills, horseback battles, the improved movement and aiming made possible by the new controls, the flight minigames, more realistic fishing, sumo wrestling, jousts, the new gadgets, the "lame" wolf's heightened senses, right? And how much of the game does this make up? That's what I thought. Jousting? I've done like, 2 jousts in 30 hours of gameplay. Hidden skills? Don't they have to actually require some effort to be found, to be considered hidden? The fishing, sumo wrestling and flying games are fun. But my god, that's such a pitifully small part of the game. The meat of the game, is unchanged. The combat plays almost exactly the same, the game progresses almost exactly the same, etc. Your vague, repetitive statements are played out. Was the game some massive letdown for you, and if so why? Surely there was plenty enough information for you to draw your conclusions on before getting the game, since your gripes are rather superficial and you had plenty enough information to make an informed buying decision months ahead of time. Come now, there's no need to take such offense. Criticism based on some observations isn't the end of the world, nor does criticism necessarily mean the game isn't good. The fact that you're criticizing a Zelda game for lack of creativity while praising RPGs is ridiculous. Only a bare minimum of AAA+ RPGs make more than the most minute attempts at creativity. Indeed there are many cookie-cutter RPGs, even if you have exaggerated the situation by leaps and bounds. Lets just say I'm referring to the ones that provide some significant changes in gameplay, of which there are quite a few these days. Afterall, Zelda is such a fantastically great series right? Why not compare it to the high-end RPGs or action games? Poor baby, 3 prior 3D Zelda games with different stories and massively different gameplay structures have wore you out on this "Ocarina clone." RPGs, damnit, they're still fresh, 9,999 nigh-indistinguishable games later. Did you love Dragon Quest VIII's utterly Stone Age gameplay, too? If you think the OoT and TP have massively different gameplay structures, I don't know what to say. Maybe I'd ask if you've actually played the games, but I don't want to fuel the smarminess that seems to be growing by the minute. But seriously, if you enjoy the formula, great. I enjoy the strategy RPG formula, so I enjoy cookie-cutter SRPGs more than I enjoy cookie-cutter action/adventure games. I just wouldn't consider the SRPG in question to be the greatest game of all time~! Funny you should mention DQVIII though, as the cookie-cutter gameplay was my largest complaint with the game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewTS 0 Report post Posted December 5, 2006 And how much of the game does this make up? That's what I thought. Jousting? I've done like, 2 jousts in 30 hours of gameplay. Hidden skills? Don't they have to actually require some effort to be found, to be considered hidden? The fishing, sumo wrestling and flying games are fun. But my god, that's such a pitifully small part of the game. The meat of the game, is unchanged. The combat plays almost exactly the same, the game progresses almost exactly the same, etc. The minigames tend to come into play for some required areas, but they're not forced onto you for any long periods of time. You may find that a drawback, I do not. I'm not finished with the game but it seems there's several other such minigames in them, and remarkably they all seem to be done very well. You can play them as little or as long as you want. The "Hidden Skills" are what the game calls them, did you not notice that every single time you got one? The point is that it changes up combat, although I'm still waiting for the baddies to come up where I'm going to need to use them, which I haven't found much of so far. Come now, there's no need to take such offense. Criticism based on some observations isn't the end of the world, nor does criticism necessarily mean the game isn't good. I'm not taking offense, I'm trying to get you to explain where you stand there. I just don't understand why you saw plenty of things you didn't like the game, you got the game, and surprise--the things you already know you didn't like about the game--you didn't like! Indeed there are many cookie-cutter RPGs, even if you have exaggerated the situation by leaps and bounds. Lets just say I'm referring to the ones that provide some significant changes in gameplay, of which there are quite a few these days. Afterall, Zelda is such a fantastically great series right? Why not compare it to the high-end RPGs or action games? Exaggerated? I'm giving RPGs the benefit of the doubt really, because out of those "AAA+ RPGs" the only recent ones I'm aware of to even attempt to break the mold is Final Fantasy XII. To answer the question--because you typically don't compare games in different genres to each other. And besides, how many RPGs actually take their exploration and puzzle-solving to Zelda levels? Usually it's a slog through random battles, until you get key item X, which hits the magical event flag that drags the storyline along. Rinse and repeat. I dislike most modern RPGs for many reasons, including the boring cutscenes, point-A-to-B structure, and random battles/forced battles. I dislike most "action" games because either they're really repetitive (based totally on how much time you can invest into hitting the same one or two buttons over again), or the ones that require "skill" often go absolutely overboard and make the gameplay too bloody hard. The newer Prince of Persia games' combat isn't as in-depth as Ninja Gaiden or Devil May Cry 3. I wouldn't want it to be, anyway, though. That's not the focus of the game. Urban Reign may have the most in-depth combat engine of any recent beat 'em up, having much in common with Tekken. It also isn't a terribly well-liked game, party because of that. There isn't really need/demand for a beat 'em up that plays like a hardcore fighting game. Zelda's combat and story aren't the focus of the game, the gameplay, puzzles, and dungeons are. Those are what need to be solid, and they've remained strong for almost the entire series. If you think the OoT and TP have massively different gameplay structures, I don't know what to say. Except I didn't, I said the "3 prior" of the 3D Zeldas all had different structures from each other. Majora and Wind Waker were structured very differently from Ocarina. I'm not denying that the overall structure of TP is similar to Ocarina. I enjoy the strategy RPG formula, so I enjoy cookie-cutter SRPGs more than I enjoy cookie-cutter action/adventure games. Yeah, it's easy to get sick of all those action/adventure games. Like Zelda. And Okami. And...? I just wouldn't consider the SRPG in question to be the greatest game of all time~! When did I say Twilight Princess or even Ocarina was the greatest game of all time? When I made my list up for the TSM Top 30 Games Ocarina was not number 1. If a made a list today I'm not sure TP would top it (but I haven't finished the game). The LoZ games are bar none my favorite game *series*. However, I don't feel it necessary for any lousy game rag or site to justify my opinions with an inflated score. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
World's Worst Man 0 Report post Posted December 5, 2006 The minigames tend to come into play for some required areas, but they're not forced onto you for any long periods of time. You may find that a drawback, I do not. I'm not finished with the game but it seems there's several other such minigames in them, and remarkably they all seem to be done very well. You can play them as little or as long as you want. The "Hidden Skills" are what the game calls them, did you not notice that every single time you got one? The point is that it changes up combat, although I'm still waiting for the baddies to come up where I'm going to need to use them, which I haven't found much of so far. I liked most of the mini-games and the hidden skills (even if most of them were useless). They're just kind of smaller things, but it's all good. I'm not taking offense, I'm trying to get you to explain where you stand there. I just don't understand why you saw plenty of things you didn't like the game, you got the game, and surprise--the things you already know you didn't like about the game--you didn't like! Oh, I don't hate the game enough to not it. I might sound like I'm dumping on the game, but that's pretty much the way I am with everything. I like to be thorough, so I might bring up some issues with a game, but it doesn't mean I think it's bad. Hell, I could put together a few paragraphs on FFXII's large flaws, but I still thought it was very good. Same with TP. Exaggerated? I'm giving RPGs the benefit of the doubt really, because out of those "AAA+ RPGs" the only recent ones I'm aware of to even attempt to break the mold is Final Fantasy XII. Tales of Abyss, Valkyrie Profile 2, Grandia III, Magna Carta and Shadow Hearts: From the New World are all kind of recently released RPGs that aren't typical fare. I will admit that it's easier for RPG developers to mix things up, just because there are more options. They can significantly change how characters progress and how battles are fought, two things that can't change a whole lot in the Zelda series without making it a completely different game. As I said, there's not really much they can do to significantly change the games, outside of completely rehauling the battle and character system. And if they added something like character leveling, the game is then an RPG. Not like I'd complain Yeah, it's easy to get sick of all those action/adventure games. Like Zelda. And Okami. And...? Not really a matter of getting sick of them, more that I don't like certain parts of the formula. And I've probably overstated my dislike of the game and series in general. LTTP is still my favourite SNES game. And I still like a good chunk of this game, and my gripes basically amount to me not thinking the game is truly great, but it's still very good. The dungeons and mini-games are fun, I just don't like the battle, platforming elements and a lot of the forced events/puzzles that happen outside the dungeons. Aaaanyway, I still liked WW more than TP A replay might change my mind though, I kind of don't remember specific details about the game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewTS 0 Report post Posted December 6, 2006 Using quote marks to speed the reply: "Oh, I don't hate the game enough to not it. I might sound like I'm dumping on the game, but that's pretty much the way I am with everything. I like to be thorough, so I might bring up some issues with a game, but it doesn't mean I think it's bad. Hell, I could put together a few paragraphs on FFXII's large flaws, but I still thought it was very good. Same with TP." No problem, I just misconstrued your onslaught of negative remarks and no immediately noticeable positive comments. "Tales of Abyss, Valkyrie Profile 2, Grandia III, Magna Carta and Shadow Hearts: From the New World are all kind of recently released RPGs that aren't typical fare." I can't honestly keep track of the Tales games so far, because there's so damn many of them. I didn't like Grandia I or II. After hearing about VP2's reviews I have put it on the back burner, and I never liked the Shadow Hearts games. However, are these the titles that supposedly have the puzzle-solving and dungeon complexity of Zelda? Since you said that "RPGs" are doing that better. "I will admit that it's easier for RPG developers to mix things up, just because there are more options. They can significantly change how characters progress and how battles are fought, two things that can't change a whole lot in the Zelda series without making it a completely different game. As I said, there's not really much they can do to significantly change the games, outside of completely rehauling the battle and character system. And if they added something like character leveling, the game is then an RPG. Not like I'd complain" I would. "RPG elements" are fine and good when it's a cherry on top, but it doesn't fix a broken foundation either. And it can be really out of place in areas it doesn't belong. Having to hack away at enemies in preparations of really strong enemies/bosses doesn't appeal to me at all. The Metroidvania games can sink or swim depending on that balance. Circle was poorly balanced, SotN made it way too simple to become overpowered, and Dawn seemed to strike a fair balance overall, although within Julius mode the concern was moot. "Not really a matter of getting sick of them, more that I don't like certain parts of the formula." Like I said previously, you're being extremely vague here. All I keep hearing are these "played out" concerns. I haven't ever been able to develop such feelings. We're lucky to get 2 of these per console generation. Once in a while a quality action/adventure game arises besides that, and I'm glad to try those. Besides the Zeldas, the only ones that come to mind are Beyond Good & Evil and Star Fox Adventures. The former has been greviously overrated because of it's production values and has been (unjustly, perhaps) ignored by most gamers. The latter has been critically reemed for being a cookie-cutter me-too with plenty of weaknesses besides. Both are good, although not (IMO) great games. Okami is definitely the pick of the litter, though. Sure, it suffers in the difficulty area, but the brilliant interface (which eliminates almost all sub-menu switching--one of the problems that had plagued a lot of the Zelda games), art design, story, gameplay polish, etc. all make up for it. Although the game's overall feel, right down to the "Okami chime," makes it come off at a tribute to a certain other game series. So, yeah, I honestly don't understand why so many people bitch because a certain company makes good games and makes them often (which isn't very often for Zelda, I'm just going off on a tangent). Too many times I hear annoying squawking about "OMG ANOTHER METROIDVANIA!!! (not in the context of wanting a traditional CV, either mind you). Or gripes about "another Mega Man game! (even when it's a really good one, like ZX)" when it's their best and most original entry in years. Mega Man X6's problems weren't necessarily it's lack of originality, it was that the game itself was pretty awful and took many a step backwards. The only times I've really felt "too much of a good thing" were the GTA games. GTA3 was all the GTA I would ever need, and I pretty much put the series out of sight and out of mind after that. Even hearing about all the newer games' revamps did nothing to sway me. So, in conclusion, I don't see why "lack of creativity" is really a valid point to make against a solid quality title, it's just something that far too many game reviewers use arbritarily to use a lower number for their arbitrary review scores. A good game's a good game. It's just that it's the "game journalist" standard to "judge against similar games on that platform." Therefore we have silliness like a FPS getting demerits for lack of a quality story. "And I've probably overstated my dislike of the game and series in general. LTTP is still my favourite SNES game. And I still like a good chunk of this game, and my gripes basically amount to me not thinking the game is truly great, but it's still very good. The dungeons and mini-games are fun, I just don't like the battle, platforming elements and a lot of the forced events/puzzles that happen outside the dungeons." Fair enough, and the platforming elements are something that Okami really has in its favor. Okami *is* much more like a true platformer. If the wolf sections in TP played as well as Okami, we wouldn't really be having this discussion. I don't happen to think they're awful, though. "Aaaanyway, I still liked WW more than TP A replay might change my mind though, I kind of don't remember specific details about the game." It certainly seemed that way. It'll be very interesting to see what approach PH takes. So far it's very difficult to judge what the main gameplay will be like other than controlling with the stylus. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anya 0 Report post Posted December 6, 2006 Urban Reign may have the most in-depth combat engine of any recent beat 'em up, having much in common with Tekken. What!? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scroby 0 Report post Posted December 6, 2006 Fishing is great! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
luke-o 0 Report post Posted December 6, 2006 OK, am i totally dumb for not being able to work out what to do at the start. I got the hawk and got rid of the bees nest. But where do i get the rod from? that kids mum? This game is awesome but im well stuck! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewTS 0 Report post Posted December 6, 2006 I believe that's the one. There's a monkey with a baby cradle further down the small lake. Use the hawk to hit him, recover the cradle, and bring it to the lady on the bank who was looking for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
luke-o 0 Report post Posted December 6, 2006 I thought i had to do that, but i didnt think it was possible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
luke-o 0 Report post Posted December 6, 2006 How could i have been so blind! But goddamn this fishing lark is really hard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Invictus 0 Report post Posted December 6, 2006 It's not as hard as you might think.... Unfortulately, they never really make this clear, but when you're going bobber fishing, when the bobber sinks down all you have to do is jerk the wiimote back and you should have hooked it. I kept waiting forever for a fish to bite before I figured that out. Lure fishing is much more enjoyable later on, as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
luke-o 0 Report post Posted December 6, 2006 Oh cool cheers, yeah it annoyed me that didnt explain to me what i had to do when it came to fishing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewTS 0 Report post Posted December 7, 2006 FISH ON! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
luke-o 0 Report post Posted December 8, 2006 I still cant do it. Man i suck at games. But it does make me sing Primus - Fish on whenever a a fish bites. "I was so damn impressed i had to write this song called Fish On." etc.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewTS 0 Report post Posted December 8, 2006 Once you have a fish hooked, pull the Wiimote up...and *hold* it there. Link should be keeping the rod taut until eventually you pull it up on the dock. It confused me at first too, because it isn't like you have a reel, so I assumed you kept on yanking periodically. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aero 0 Report post Posted December 9, 2006 Just beat the Desert Temple (can't remember the exact name), and yeah, that had to be one of the more fun boss battles. Now that the story's really picked up, I can see this game ending up being considered better than OOT. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scroby 0 Report post Posted December 10, 2006 After finishing the desert temple, I've been on a search on Hyrule Field for Poes, Heart containers, gems, bugs, and other secrets...and now I need new batteries. I just unlocked the boat ride game as well and got the new bomb bag, next I'm going to get the 3rd bottle. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aero 0 Report post Posted December 10, 2006 Ha, after the fifth dungeon, I already have all four bottles. The fifth dungeon was... interesting. I'm surprised there wasn't much of a set-up to going in. When I entered the monster's house, I was actually wasn't sure if this was THE dungeon. I was expecting more of an "Ice Cavern to the Water Temple" deal. Now, regarding the weapon... (just in case) The ball and chain rocks. It's easily my favorite weapon in the game, so far. Fighting the ice soldiers in the chapel of the fifth dungeon while destroying everything ruled. Don't know where everyone else is with heart containers, but I just got into the second row. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites