500,000 march in LA

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

 

 

 

The crowd, estimated by police at more than 500,000, represented one of the largest protest marches in Los Angeles history, surpassing Vietnam War demonstrations and the 70,000 who rallied downtown against Proposition 187

 

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-pr...-home-headlines

[Guest]

Oh my god. I'm glad I didn't go the Kings game as planned, that's a traffic nightmare.

[Guest InuYasha]

Not to sound like an ass, but; if you're here illegally, you deserve to have your ass deported, immediately. The US is probably the only country where it's worse to get a traffic ticket than enter the country illegally.

[Guest CWMwasmurdered]

If you read the article you'd see they want to do alot more than go after illegal workers.

[Vampiro69 0]

How did these people get time off from work?

[Celtic Guardian 0]

Not to sound like an ass, but; if you're here illegally, you deserve to have your ass deported, immediately. The US is probably the only country where it's worse to get a traffic ticket than enter the country illegally.

 

That's all well and good but do we want the US to be a country that locks up American soup kitchen workers for not turning away starving undocumented people?

[Dobbs 3K 0]

The time for nice happy solutions is over. It's time for a clampdown on this problem. Do we really want this to keep going on, so that in 20 years the Southwestern US is overrun with non-English speakers who haven't absorbed into the US culture, and will be wanting autonomy or a merger with Mexico?

 

BTW, I am not against people coming here to work and make an honest living, but it has to be metered. Do you really think it's only nice honest Mexicans coming through the Southern border? There is strong evidence that many Arabs and Chinese, among others, have come through as well.

[Slayer 0]

How did these people get time off from work?

That's a kkk joke waiting to happen

[SuperJerk 0]

If you read the article you'd see they want to do alot more than go after illegal workers.

 

The article's pretty short on detail about what's in the law.

 

The U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee is to take up efforts Monday to complete work on a comprehensive immigration reform proposal. Unlike the House bill, which beefed up border security and toughened immigration laws, the Senate committee's version is expected to include a guest worker program and a path to legalization for the nation's 10 to 12 million undocumented immigrants.

 

In recent weeks, hundreds of thousands of people have staged demonstrations in more than a dozen cities. The Roman Catholic Church and other religious communities have launched immigrant rights campaigns, with Los Angeles Cardinal Roger Mahony taking a leading role in speaking out against the House bill and calling on his priests to defy its provisions that would make felons of anyone who aided undocumented immigrants. In addition, several cities, including Los Angeles, have passed resolutions against the House legislation and some, such as Maywood, have declared itself a "sanctuary" for undocumented immigrants.

 

Here was my favorite part

 

Jose Alberto Salvador, 33, came here illegally just four months ago to find work to support the wife and five children he left behind; in his native Guatemala, he said, what little work he could find paid only $10 a day.

 

Why is it wrong to think this shouldn't continue? This man is paying paid starvation wages, and whoever is employing him is breaking a multitude of labor laws.

 

I could care less if immigrants are ever "assimilated" into American society, but I'm against illegal immigration. My reason for wanting tighter borders is twofold:

 

1. Security. Sneaking into this country presents a huge loophole for terrorists to sneak into the U.S. Maybe I'm being paranoid, but there seems to be a huge risk in letting people in without even knowing who they are.

 

2. Economic. Companies are exploiting cheap illegal labor in defiance of labor laws, the tax code, and minimum wage laws to the detriment of the American worker. If we allow illegal immigration to continue, we might as well repeal our minimum wage, overtime, and income tax laws. These laws aren't being followed, and more and more people will begin violating them as this continues.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Holy crap that's a lot of Mexicans.

[Guest]

Not to make light of the situation, that's not anywhere near the half of it.

[Darthtiki 0]

Now for one of my few posts in this folder.

 

Jerk hit the nail on the head in why most people support this legislation. Here in California it is a huge problem, we (the voters) overwhelmingly passed Proposition 187 in 1994 that would have curbed the problem 13 years ago by denying benefits to illegals. Unfortunately, the lawyers got it thrown out. Not only that why should we reward people for breaking the law? Last I checked, you get punished for breaking the law. Look I'm all for immigration, people from other countries looking for a slice of the American Dream, a great case in point is our Governor. However, if you're going to come here, sign the fucking guestbook on the way in.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

It'd be nice if other people in the US gave enough of a shit about something to hit the streets peacefully like this. Pretty amazing.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

What was Prop. 187? If it wasn't something homocide-related then that's weak.

[Guest wildpegasus]

I hope the US gets overrun with immigrants and they take over the country.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

That won't happen. At some point there will be a counter-revolution.

[NoCalMike 0]

The problem with most immigration measures is it is always designed to hurt the individual and not the people who use them and employ them.

 

Like this new legislation wants it to be OKAY to arrest a priest or rabbi for not turning away an illegal alien from aid, however at the same time, won't do anything to Wal-Mart for employing them, and even if it CLAIMS to, I am sure there are going to be Corporate loopholes for them to get out of fines or punishment.

 

As liberal as I am, I do believe immigration is out of control in certain aspects, but in order to solve the problem or even beging to solve the problem we have to look at the bigger picture of what is going on.

[NoCalMike 0]

 

 

 

The crowd, estimated by police at more than 500,000, represented one of the largest protest marches in Los Angeles history, surpassing Vietnam War demonstrations and the 70,000 who rallied downtown against Proposition 187

 

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-pr...-home-headlines

 

Looking at the massive amount of people. I think it would be pretty hilarious if they stormed Michael Savage's studio after he referred to them as "Rotten Bum Illegals" just to see the look on his face.

[Danville_Wrestling 0]

Mark my words, if the government waters down any new types of immigration restrictions and continues to do little over the next decade there is going to be a resurgent nativist/fascist movement in this country. The politicians are distancing themselves further from the people and if issues like illegal immigration don't concern the Beltway then they don't get dealt with.

 

I echo the sentiments heard above the illegal labor is allowing companies to keep U.S. workers out of jobs and is depressing wages in jobs like construction where my family has made a living for decades.

[Stephen Joseph 0]

Danville, that's a bunch of bullshit.

 

That's not how economies work, or function. If so, Ross Perot would have been right?

 

What is so freaking bad about the free movement of labor? What is so bad about letting people who want to do what we would consider "shitty" jobs to do them, and free ourselves up for higher-paying jobs. I mean, that's the whole point of free trade and free labor.

 

Protectionist measures, no matter what they are, have never helped an economy more than they have helped it , going back all the way to the industrial revolution.

 

Good for these people. Good for them.

 

And I'm sorry that your family is hurt by lower wages in the construction industry because there's a supply increase in labor available. Go get a college degree. We didn't stop technological advancement reducing the number of farmers, the number of buggy builders, the number of typists, assembly line workers, et. al.

[SuperJerk 0]

Danville, that's a bunch of bullshit.

 

That's not how economies work, or function. If so, Ross Perot would have been right?

 

What is so freaking bad about the free movement of labor? What is so bad about letting people who want to do what we would consider "shitty" jobs to do them, and free ourselves up for higher-paying jobs. I mean, that's the whole point of free trade and free labor.

 

Protectionist measures, no matter what they are, have never helped an economy more than they have helped it , going back all the way to the industrial revolution.

 

Good for these people. Good for them.

 

And I'm sorry that your family is hurt by lower wages in the construction industry because there's a supply increase in labor available. Go get a college degree. We didn't stop technological advancement reducing the number of farmers, the number of buggy builders, the number of typists, assembly line workers, et. al.

 

First of all, there simply are not enough of these "high-paying jobs" to go around. And the jobs that ARE available to everyone do not pay enough to live on. Do you know what would happen if everyone in America went to college? You'd have the world's most educated unemployment line.

 

Second, these "shitty" jobs wouldn't seem so shitty if people were actually paid a decent wage to do them. But, as long as you have employers that can skirt the law with the full blessing of their friends in the government, that will never happen. Market forces within the US have determined that the pay for these jobs needs to go up, but employers simply hire people who do not need to make as much for their family to survive because they are sending their money outside of the country where the standard of living is much lower. We've basically become an ATM machine for Mexico at this point.

 

Third, as long as we're going all the way back to the Industrial Revolution, let's look at how bad things were for working people before the Progressive movement. A hundred years ago, government action brought health, safety, and pay standards to American industry. But even the most basic of these protections are being ignored as long as US employers are allowed to use undocumented workers.

 

And fourth, if free trade was working the way it was supposed to, we wouldn't have all these people coming over from Mexico in the first place.

[2GOLD 0]

Didn't help when the President of Mexico basically said, "nah man, you guys are doing fine employing the people of my country. We're cool with you paying for everything."

 

I've never had a problem with people who come here to work towards becoming a citizen and establish a life here. I've had a major problem with the ones who come and are just looking to make some dough to send home then bounce. Not as mad as the Mexicans working towards citizenship are. They get REALLY pissed off. You wanna here someone rip the illegals? Find a legal Mexican-American citizen. Those are some bitter guys.

[Stephen Joseph 0]

Fifthly, and Finally.

 

Search through your textbooks, historical articles.

 

Answer me the following:

 

Has the prevention of the immigration of peoples from one region to another ever benefited the segregating region in the long run?

 

The answer will be no.

 

Don't beleive the hype they tell you about illegal immigration's effects on the US job market. Our unemployment is still ridiciously low compared to the rest of the world, our standard of living amongst the highest...we do more damage to our economy by NOT letting these people come in and work than we do by preventing these illegal immigrants from taking so-called American jobs.

 

Fact: The majority of jobs illegal immigrants do are minimum wage, or day labor, that most Americans would NOT do, even when faced with the choice of that job or no income.

 

http://www.woai.com/news/local/story.aspx?...68-5AEAB1EB0497

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Consider the amounts of european immigrants that came here way back when. There's more polish people in chicago than anywhere else in the world but friggin' WARSAW.

 

Immigration is a part of this country, plain and simple. The "lack of assimilation" hasn't hurt anyone, it's just brought about a Little Italy, or a Chinatown in most major cities. What's the problem with individual people retaining their own culture and heritage while living and working here? As long as they pay taxes, more power to 'em.

[SuperJerk 0]

Search through your textbooks, historical articles.

 

Answer me the following:

 

Has the prevention of the immigration of peoples from one region to another ever benefited the segregating region in the long run?

 

Given that things like minimum wage and health protections are a relatively new innovation, there isn't a historical instance where a completely fair comparison can be made. And I don't have a problem with legal immigration, because there's a definite benefit there.

 

As long as they pay taxes, more power to 'em.

 

I'd love to know how illegal immigrant are forced to pay anything other than sales taxes.

 

Just to clarify: I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH LEGAL IMMIGRATION.

Edited March 27, 2006 by Y2Jerk

[Stephen Joseph 0]

Illegal immigrants are not taking jobs that "normal America" wants or would take.

 

Unless you didn't finish high school, or lack an education, or refuse to change with the times. Or you're on welfare.

 

And yes, Y2J, you can make that comparision, even when accounting for minimum wages and health protection et. al. I'm not an economist/statistician for no reason in particular, so when I do say something like that, its backed up by research I'm aware of.

[EricMM 0]

People complaining about losing jobs would be faaaaaaaaaar better off complaining about Outsourcing than immigrants.

 

I mean, look at India! Just look at it! And SO MANY of them want American financed jobs!!!

[SuperJerk 0]

Illegal immigrants are not taking jobs that "normal America" wants or would take.

 

Unless you didn't finish high school, or lack an education, or refuse to change with the times. Or you're on welfare.

 

That's a pretty big "unless".

 

And yes, Y2J, you can make that comparision, even when accounting for minimum wages and health protection et. al. I'm not an economist/statistician for no reason in particular, so when I do say something like that, its backed up by research I'm aware of.

 

That point of yours was a really great case for legal immigration. I don't see the good that encouraging companies to ignore those regulations does for legal citizens. If you come to America to work legally, you should be entitled to the same protections as anyone. Illegal immigrants may be better off than they were in their native country, but they are still far worse off than the minimum standards we've set for our country.

 

Also, don't forget, there's the issue of national security. Given how poor border security is, it wouldn't be difficult for a large number of terrorist operatives to sneak into our country.

[Guest InuYasha]

Also, don't forget, there's the issue of national security. Given how poor border security is, it wouldn't be difficult for a large number of terrorist operatives to sneak into our country.

In Tom Clancy's latest book The Teeth of the Tiger, that's exactly how the terrorist cell gets into the US.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

The only entity that pisses me off in the whole illegal immigration issue is the corrupt mexican govt. If those assholes had something to offer their people, said people wouldn't be forced to trek their asses across the desert just to be able to feed and clothe their families.