NBA Offseason Thread

[Guest]

If Kobe is 27, his PRIME is still good for the next 5-6 years, according to you-know-who.

 

As a card carrying Lakers hater, I wouldn't want to see it, but don't kid yourself into thinking that Bynum and Odom are more valuable to your team than Kevin F'n Garnett.

Trading away Mihm, Bynum and Odom, and draft picks for KG would give L.A. a starting lineup of:

Smush/Sasha Vujacic-Kobe-Kwame-KG-??

Cassell (Insert other PG here)-Kobe-Walton-KG-Kwame

 

Cassell's going where KG goes, provided it's not a team with the guard logjam. The Lakers can rebuild when Kobe's gone, not when they have the best player of the league on their team.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Lamar Odom is an overpaid underachiever. I know the guy has talent but he hasn't show the ability to stand up to Kobe and demand an equal role in the team's success. If you have the chance to upgrade to Garnett, you do it every day of the week.

 

Mihm is a dime-a-dozen type center. You can easily replace him on the free agent market with your mid-level exception. As for Bynum, he's probably 4-5 years away from being a major contributor (if he ever does). I think you have to mortgage the future for a chance to win now, especially out in LA.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

There is an article over on espn.com ranking the top 10 PGs in the history of the NBA, as voted on by their staff. Anyone have any thoughts? The results are listed below.

 

Magic 10 10 10 10 9 10 10 10 10 9 10 10 10 128

Oscar 9 9 9 8 10 9 9 -- 9 10 9 9 9 109

Isiah 8 8 8 9 3 8 7 5 5 2 6 7 8 84

Stockton 5 5 7 5 8 2 8 9 8 7 8 6 3 81

Cousy -- 7 5 7 6 6 4 8 7 6 5 8 7 76

Frazier 4 6 -- 6 2 3 6 7 6 3 7 4 6 60

Kidd 6 4 6 3 5 5 5 4 4 8 2 3 2 57

Tiny -- 1 4 4 1 7 2 6 2 5 -- 1 4 37

Nash -- 2 -- 2 4 4 1 3 3 4 4 2 5 34

Payton -- 3 2 -- 7 1 -- 1 -- 1 3 5 -- 23

[Dangerous A 0]

I very much agree with the Isiah love. He's still underrated as one of the all time greats at PG. He is one of those people who you could tell was born to not just play basketball, but play PG as well. Just an awesome natural talent.

[naiwf 0]

There is an article over on espn.com ranking the top 10 PGs in the history of the NBA, as voted on by their staff. Anyone have any thoughts? The results are listed below.

 

Magic 10 10 10 10 9 10 10 10 10 9 10 10 10 128

Oscar 9 9 9 8 10 9 9 -- 9 10 9 9 9 109

Isiah 8 8 8 9 3 8 7 5 5 2 6 7 8 84

Stockton 5 5 7 5 8 2 8 9 8 7 8 6 3 81

Cousy -- 7 5 7 6 6 4 8 7 6 5 8 7 76

Frazier 4 6 -- 6 2 3 6 7 6 3 7 4 6 60

Kidd 6 4 6 3 5 5 5 4 4 8 2 3 2 57

Tiny -- 1 4 4 1 7 2 6 2 5 -- 1 4 37

Nash -- 2 -- 2 4 4 1 3 3 4 4 2 5 34

Payton -- 3 2 -- 7 1 -- 1 -- 1 3 5 -- 23

 

Someone giving OSCAR, Cousy and Frazier no votes is ridiculous, as is Payton being rated the 4th best PG of all time by 1 voter, but overall I think the order of the top 6 is about right.

[Fökai 0]

Look at that guy's (John Hollinger) votes:

 

1. Oscar

2. Magic

3. Stockton

4. Payton

5. Kidd

6. Cousy

7. Nash

8. Isiah

9. Frazier

10. Archibald

 

What the fuck. And also, Chauncey Billups, SCOTTIE PIPPEN, and Michael Ray fucking Richardson got votes.

[Guest Felonies!]

I think you have to mortgage the future for a chance to win now, especially out in LA.

Why? Going a few years between Magic's Lakers and Shaq's Lakers didn't kill the franchise.

 

Oh, Stockton > Isiah, because I'm just a shameless John Stockton fanboy thanks to years of NBA Jam. He'd be a good coach. He should take over for Jerry Sloan.

[Fökai 0]

Apparently, Jim O'Brien was the one who forgot about Oscar. Good one.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

But these are Kobe's Lakers now. Why waste his prime waiting to see if some high school kid matures into a dominant center? You have a chance to go out and get arguably the best player in the NBA. Not only is he a fantastic player, but he has the right sort of attitude to play with Kobe instead of against him. Win one or two titles now and reassess in a few years. It's stupid for teams who are close to winning now to hold on to guys with upside.

[Guest Felonies!]

They're not close to winning, though. They barely broke .500 this year. Whatever, they'll just get Garnett. I hate the Lakers.

[Fökai 0]

They're not close to winning, though. They barely broke .500 this year. Whatever, they'll just get Garnett. I hate the Lakers.

 

Look at their division next year. They can't keep Bynum out there to be mauled by guys like Amare, Brand and Miller. Who knows if they'll sign Mihm again as insurance, yet he can't help but stunt Bynum's growth. Either they get Iverson or a similar point, or get Garnett. If not, they're finishing third or fourth in the division and liking it.

 

This year's Lakers record v. divison:

Phoenix: L, L, L, W

Clippers: L, W, L, W

Sacramento: L, W, L ,W

Golden State: W, W, W, W

 

Year previous:

Phoenix: L, L, L, L

Clippers: W, W, L, L

Sacramento: L, W, L, L

Golden State: W, W, W, L

[dh86 0]

You "Bulls have better chips for KG" guys disgust me.

 

The Lakers deal would give Minny an entire FRONTCOURT aka Bynum at the 5, Mihm at the 4 and Odom at the 3. What draft pick this year is going to be good at any of those positions with the possible exception of Aldredge? The Bulls have no size (duh) to offer since Chandler is a 7'1 pussy and the T-Wolves already have a ton of guards.

 

The only way the Bulls would make a better offer than a starting front line is by offering both # 1's, Hinrich AND Gordon at the minimum. Deng and Chandler being included is more of a detriment to making the deal than anything.

 

id take 'pussy' chandler over mihm or bynum anyday..lakers would be getting away with highway robbery if they got one of the best players in basketball for lamar odom and 2 guys that werent even on the playoff roster

[dh86 0]

But these are Kobe's Lakers now. Why waste his prime waiting to see if some high school kid matures into a dominant center? You have a chance to go out and get arguably the best player in the NBA. Not only is he a fantastic player, but he has the right sort of attitude to play with Kobe instead of against him. Win one or two titles now and reassess in a few years. It's stupid for teams who are close to winning now to hold on to guys with upside.

 

who was the last big man to develop into a dominant player who wasnt productive from day 1?

[Dangerous A 0]

All Defensive First Team...

 

G Kobe Bryant

G Bruce Bowen

G Jason Kidd

F Ron Artest

F Andrei Kirilenko

C Ben Wallace

 

(Dont' ask me why there are 6)

 

Second Team...

 

F Tim Duncan

F Tayshaun Prince

C Marcus Camby

G Chauncy Billups

F Kevin Garnett

 

(Dont' ask me why there are 3 forwards)

 

Here's the article... http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2441608

 

 

Discuss I guess.

[naiwf 0]

Attached are the results for the 2005-06 NBA All-Defensive Teams:

 

2005-06 NBA ALL-DEFENSIVE FIRST TEAM:

Position Player, Team 1st 2nd Points

Guard Bruce Bowen, San Antonio 26 3 55

Center Ben Wallace, Detroit 26 2 54

Forward Andrei Kirilenko, Utah 19 6 44

Forward Ron Artest, Sacramento 11 8 30

Guard Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 12 4 28

Guard Jason Kidd, New Jersey 9 10 28

 

2005-06 NBA ALL-DEFENSIVE SECOND TEAM

Position Player, Team 1st 2nd Points

Forward Tim Duncan, San Antonio 7 9 23

Guard Chauncey Billups, Detroit 7 9 23

Forward Kevin Garnett, Minnesota 4 10 18

Center Marcus Camby, Denver 2 11 15

Forward Tayshaun Prince, Detroit 3 7 13

 

Other players receiving votes, with point totals (First Team votes in parentheses): Rasheed Wallace, Detroit, 12 (3); Gerald Wallace, Charlotte, 11 (3); Shawn Marion, Phoenix, 11 (1); Raja Bell, Phoenix, 9 (2); Dwyane Wade, Miami, 8 (3); Kirk Hinrich, Chicago, 7 (3); Alonzo Mourning, Miami, 7 (1); Shane Battier, Memphis, 6 (1); Gilbert Arenas, Washington, 4 (1); Andre Iguodala, Philadelphia, 4; P.J. Brown, New Orleans/Okla. City, 3; Manu Ginobili, San Antonio, 3; Dwight Howard, Orlando, 3; Josh Howard, Dallas, 3 (1); Brevin Knight, Charlotte, 3; Shaquille O’Neal, Miami, 3 (1); Elton Brand, L.A. Clippers, 2 (1); LeBron James, Cleveland, 2 (1); Tony Parker, San Antonio, 2 (1); Quinton Ross, L.A. Clippers, 2 (1); Allen Iverson, Philadelphia, 2; Eddie Jones, Memphis, 2; Jason Collins, New Jersey, 1; Boris Diaw, Phoenix, 1; Pau Gasol, Memphis, 1; Trenton Hassel, Minnesota, 1; Mike James, Toronto, 1; Richard Jefferson, New Jersey, 1; Ruben Patterson, Denver, 1; Chris Paul, New Orleans/Okla. City, 1; Jason Terry, Dallas, 1; Yao Ming, Houston, 1.

 

Ben Wallace not making 2 ballots is a joke. I don't know about Kobe and/or Kidd tying for the # 2 guard spot. And the jackass coach who nominated LeBron for All-NBA first team defense should be fired because clearly he knows nothing. Chris Paul getting 1 vote, despite being 3rd in the league in steals is pretty sad too.

[dh86 0]

shaq? wade?? bron??? arenas?????????????????? wow lol

[Guest]

id take 'pussy' chandler over bynum anyday

That's why you aren't a GM, considering Chandler's contract and all. It's horrible, in all honesty.

 

2 guys that werent even on the playoff roster

They were both on the playoff roster. Bynum played in the final game and Mihm was a possibility for Game 7. I hope you know Mihm was hurt. Thanks for trying!

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

id take 'pussy' chandler over bynum anyday

That's why you aren't a GM, considering Chandler's contract and all. It's horrible, in all honesty.

 

2 guys that werent even on the playoff roster

They were both on the playoff roster. Bynum played in the final game and Mihm was a possibility for Game 7. I hope you know Mihm was hurt. Thanks for trying!

 

And it's why you are a Lakers fanboy and not a GM. I've never heard Bynum described as anything other than a project. He has shown some things in his limited time, but not enough that I would declare him the next Shaq (or even the next Chandler) at this point.

 

Chandler's contract is not that bad. He makes a lot of money, but it's the going rate for a talented 7 footer. Mihm and Bynum may have been on the playoff roster, but they were irrelevant parts of the team. That series wouldn't have gone any differently had those guys been in the games.

[Guest]

I'm not a fanboy. I'm telling you that I'd take Bynum with his potential and cheap contract over Chandler.

 

Chandler has done jack shit and doesn't deserve what he's being paid. 6 years for 60 million for a bench player? No thanks. He's not a gamechanger in any way.

[Ripper 0]

The all defensive team continues its trend of being a tremedous joke as long as Kobe keeps ending up on there.

 

Call me a laker hater all you want, but someone please tell me with a half straight face that Kobe is half the defender of Ross, Josh Smith, Howard, Igudola, Shawn Marion, Shane Battier, or Elton Brand....Just to name a few.

[naiwf 0]

Chandler's contract is not that bad. He makes a lot of money, but it's the going rate for a talented 7 footer. Mihm and Bynum may have been on the playoff roster, but they were irrelevant parts of the team. That series wouldn't have gone any differently had those guys been in the games.

 

Ask the Knicks how that Eddy Curry deal is working out. Overpaid, pussified 7 footers aren't really 7 footers (see Yao Ming). Odom, Bynum, Mihm and draft picks is a better offer than 1 high draft pick, 1 low draft pick, Chandler, and someone like Deng, or the other lower tier Baby Bulls. Even if you add in the option of selecting Aldredge or Tyrus Thomas, that's still not as good in the short run, and if Bynum develops he'll surely be better than Chandler, and he'll cost less.

[Guest]

The all defensive team continues its trend of being a tremedous joke as long as Kobe keeps ending up on there.

 

Call me a laker hater all you want, but someone please tell me with a half straight face that Kobe is half the defender of Ross, Josh Smith, Howard, Igudola, Shawn Marion, Shane Battier, or Elton Brand....Just to name a few.

He's not. I personally think Bell should have made the first team. Kobe didn't step his defense up much this year, due to playing so much on the offensive end.

 

and if Bynum develops he'll surely be better than Chandler, and he'll cost less.

And if he doesn't, he'll be the next Eddy Curry that gets way overpaid.

[naiwf 0]

I don't think Kobe deserved the first team, but neither did Kidd. LeBron, Wade and Arenas didn't deserve votes at all, and Paul should have fared better. I think that coaches just went with "name" players, and called it a day.

[Ripper 0]

Oh I forgot about the gimpy Kidd making the team. He has been getting blown by all year.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Bynum's rookie numbers were much worse than Chandler's, and he didn't have the same pedigree that Chandler had coming out of high school. The fact is, we don't have any evidence at this point that Bynum is going to be great, or good, or even passable. We literally know nothing about him. His lack of PT ultimately shows that Phil is just not comfortable playing him yet. Why would Minnesota take that over a known commodity (Chandler), or a high first round pick that is assuredly better than Bynum?

 

And it seems unfair that you would complain about Chandler's contract in one breath, while pumping Odom as a key part of the deal. Odom has a horrible contract, and barely makes much less than Garnett does with half the ability. The idea behind trading Garnett is re-tooling for the future. You don't want to screw your salary cap right off the bat.

[Ripper 0]

I personally don't buy into gary payton as an alltime great point guard. He certainly is/was no Tim Hardaway or Mark Jackson. And guys like Mark Price and Kevin Johnson were better than him also, but lacked the longevity.

[naiwf 0]

Bynum's rookie numbers were much worse than Chandler's, and he didn't have the same pedigree that Chandler had coming out of high school. The fact is, we don't have any evidence at this point that Bynum is going to be great, or good, or even passable. We literally know nothing about him. His lack of PT ultimately shows that Phil is just not comfortable playing him yet. Why would Minnesota take that over a known commodity (Chandler), or a high first round pick that is assuredly better than Bynum?

 

And it seems unfair that you would complain about Chandler's contract in one breath, while pumping Odom as a key part of the deal. Odom has a horrible contract, and barely makes much less than Garnett does with half the ability. The idea behind trading Garnett is re-tooling for the future. You don't want to screw your salary cap right off the bat.

 

Odom has to be part of the deal because his contract is comparable, and he's conservatively 20 times the player that Chandler is. If you want to match it up properly, it's Odom vs Chandler, with Bynum/Mihm being the throw ins vs someone like Deng and the # 1 overall pick the Bulls will likely get thanks to Isiah. Theoretically if I'm going to get stuck with a shitty contract, I want the best player available with a shitty contract, not say a Tim Thomas or Malik Rose just to name a few.

 

You can't just trade a $20 million player for draft picks and lower end players in the NBA.

[Guest]

First things, Phil doesn't want to play rookies unless he had to. If Jabbar (who I could possibly say may be the greatest and most underrated player of all time) is willing to teach Bynum, he has something. The situation with Chandler in Chicago was terrible. Chandler got 19 MPG, Bynum got 7. With a team that bad, he's going to get playing time. It's as simple as that. Summer league will give us a great indication of how good Bynum will be, or won't be.

 

Odom's contract is terrible, however there has to be some way to make money work. Plus, GM's do like what he can possibly bring to the table, even if I may not like it as much.

 

As I said at the beginning, the ball is in KG's court. It's not going to be about who makes the best offer, it's going to be about where he wants to go.

[Ripper 0]

Bynum's rookie numbers were much worse than Chandler's, and he didn't have the same pedigree that Chandler had coming out of high school. The fact is, we don't have any evidence at this point that Bynum is going to be great, or good, or even passable. We literally know nothing about him. His lack of PT ultimately shows that Phil is just not comfortable playing him yet. Why would Minnesota take that over a known commodity (Chandler), or a high first round pick that is assuredly better than Bynum?

 

And it seems unfair that you would complain about Chandler's contract in one breath, while pumping Odom as a key part of the deal. Odom has a horrible contract, and barely makes much less than Garnett does with half the ability. The idea behind trading Garnett is re-tooling for the future. You don't want to screw your salary cap right off the bat.

 

 

A: Anyone with eyes can see that Bynum is going to be a better offensive threat than Chandler. Not that its hard, but the kid has a damn good offensive game. He is fairly athletic with his size and has shown good timing on block shots and rebound positioning. Even if he only played in spurts, those spurts looked better than Chandler's great spurts(not to discount what Chandler can do defensively, but it is pretty much known he is a one trick pony while if you give up Garnett, you are giving up 25 points a game. you KNOW Chandler can't give you 5.)

 

B: Lamar Odem has shown to be a incredible player when not on the floor with Kobe. He is a guy that NEEDS the ball to be effective. You can build a team around Odem as a marquee big man. He is a great passer, and ball handler for his size and can rebound the hell out of the ball, and has proven to be able to make the guys around him better.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Bynum's rookie numbers were much worse than Chandler's, and he didn't have the same pedigree that Chandler had coming out of high school. The fact is, we don't have any evidence at this point that Bynum is going to be great, or good, or even passable. We literally know nothing about him. His lack of PT ultimately shows that Phil is just not comfortable playing him yet. Why would Minnesota take that over a known commodity (Chandler), or a high first round pick that is assuredly better than Bynum?

 

And it seems unfair that you would complain about Chandler's contract in one breath, while pumping Odom as a key part of the deal. Odom has a horrible contract, and barely makes much less than Garnett does with half the ability. The idea behind trading Garnett is re-tooling for the future. You don't want to screw your salary cap right off the bat.

 

Odom has to be part of the deal because his contract is comparable, and he's conservatively 20 times the player that Chandler is. If you want to match it up properly, it's Odom vs Chandler, with Bynum/Mihm being the throw ins vs someone like Deng and the # 1 overall pick the Bulls will likely get thanks to Isiah. Theoretically if I'm going to get stuck with a shitty contract, I want the best player available with a shitty contract, not say a Tim Thomas or Malik Rose just to name a few.

 

You can't just trade a $20 million player for draft picks and lower end players in the NBA.

 

That's why I still feel that the Lakers don't have the players to make a deal work. The T'Wolves would be taking back almost $20 million in players, and only one of them would contribute in any sort of meaningul way (Odom) and he's not even an All-Star caliber player.

 

At least with the Chicago deal, they'd only have to take on about half the amount of salary, get a future all-star (be it Gordon or Hinrich), and two high draft picks around which they could start re-building their team. At least that's something to be optimistic about.