WWE News and Notes - 8/7

[Kizzo 0]

Telling a story in the ring isn't as important as it used to be. Different fanbase. They want results, quick, then comedy and divas.

That explains why the crowds are so electric for the D-X skits and Diva Search, and all the dead heat during matches like Benjamin-Michaels on Raw last year, and Taker-Angle on Smackdown this year.

Wrestling fans want wrestling, no matter what Russo, Stephanie, or the failed sitcom writers want us to believe.

 

When was the last time WWE scored a 6 or 7 in ratings with just "wrestling"

 

Like it or NOT....Russo's concept is what brought the bucks in and the record ratings. People want action/crazy storylines/interesting characters. They don't want a 20 MINUTE match on TV filled with rest holds. The minute a rest hold is put on or the match goes on more than 5 minutes....the remote is clicked to another channel.

[FroGG_NeaL 0]

Telling a story in the ring isn't as important as it used to be. Different fanbase. They want results, quick, then comedy and divas.

That explains why the crowds are so electric for the D-X skits and Diva Search, and all the dead heat during matches like Benjamin-Michaels on Raw last year, and Taker-Angle on Smackdown this year.

Wrestling fans want wrestling, no matter what Russo, Stephanie, or the failed sitcom writers want us to believe.

 

When was the last time WWE scored a 6 or 7 in ratings with just "wrestling"

 

 

When was the last time the WWE did a show with just "wrestling" ?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Telling a story in the ring isn't as important as it used to be. Different fanbase. They want results, quick, then comedy and divas.

That explains why the crowds are so electric for the D-X skits and Diva Search, and all the dead heat during matches like Benjamin-Michaels on Raw last year, and Taker-Angle on Smackdown this year.

Wrestling fans want wrestling, no matter what Russo, Stephanie, or the failed sitcom writers want us to believe.

 

When was the last time WWE scored a 6 or 7 in ratings with just "wrestling"

 

Like it or NOT....Russo's concept is what brought the bucks in and the record ratings. People want action/crazy storylines/interesting characters. They don't want a 20 MINUTE match on TV filled with rest holds. The minute a rest hold is put on or the match goes on more than 5 minutes....the remote is clicked to another channel.

The biggest ratings might have been scored with Russo's crap, but the company's biggest year financially was 2000-2001, when the wrestling was probably at the best level it's ever been for the company.

[NoCalMike 0]

Really, we are arguing semantics here. The fact is you really need both. In terms of the WWE and the casual fans, a compelling story and character is probably more important then a ***** match, however they still did deliver in the ring somewhat to enjoyable matches, unlike today where we have such empty hollow characters like John Cena, Randy Orton, Batista.

 

When you have Austin & The Rock as your Main Eventers, the overall entertainment value and spectacle of the match can far over-reach the workrate, but that is because of the guys involved in the match, people truly cared about them, kind of like Hogan during his era, people didn't care so much about the workrate because they felt emotionally involved in the match

 

Today's WWE Main Eventers can't mask a *-** ME match because they aren't compelling in the least, and since the fans don't care about their character and/or storyline, they tend to actually pay attention to the match itself, the workrate, which is subpar at best.

[canadafour 0]

When you have Austin & The Rock as your Main Eventers, the overall entertainment value and spectacle of the match can far over-reach the workrate, but that is because of the guys involved in the match, people truly cared about them, kind of like Hogan during his era, people didn't care so much about the workrate because they felt emotionally involved in the match

 

Today's WWE Main Eventers can't mask a *-** ME match because they aren't compelling in the least, and since the fans don't care about their character and/or storyline, they tend to actually pay attention to the match itself, the workrate, which is subpar at best.

 

 

Perfectly Said! It's the truth!

[Kizzo 0]

Really, we are arguing semantics here. The fact is you really need both. In terms of the WWE and the casual fans, a compelling story and character is probably more important then a ***** match, however they still did deliver in the ring somewhat to enjoyable matches, unlike today where we have such empty hollow characters like John Cena, Randy Orton, Batista.

 

When you have Austin & The Rock as your Main Eventers, the overall entertainment value and spectacle of the match can far over-reach the workrate, but that is because of the guys involved in the match, people truly cared about them, kind of like Hogan during his era, people didn't care so much about the workrate because they felt emotionally involved in the match

 

Today's WWE Main Eventers can't mask a *-** ME match because they aren't compelling in the least, and since the fans don't care about their character and/or storyline, they tend to actually pay attention to the match itself, the workrate, which is subpar at best.

 

Can't argue with that...

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Telling a story in the ring isn't as important as it used to be. Different fanbase. They want results, quick, then comedy and divas.

That explains why the crowds are so electric for the D-X skits and Diva Search, and all the dead heat during matches like Benjamin-Michaels on Raw last year, and Taker-Angle on Smackdown this year.

Wrestling fans want wrestling, no matter what Russo, Stephanie, or the failed sitcom writers want us to believe.

 

Dumb example mentioning DX, because they do get a very large reaction. Just because you don't like them, doesn't mean other people don't.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Really, we are arguing semantics here. The fact is you really need both. In terms of the WWE and the casual fans, a compelling story and character is probably more important then a ***** match, however they still did deliver in the ring somewhat to enjoyable matches, unlike today where we have such empty hollow characters like John Cena, Randy Orton, Batista.

 

When you have Austin & The Rock as your Main Eventers, the overall entertainment value and spectacle of the match can far over-reach the workrate, but that is because of the guys involved in the match, people truly cared about them, kind of like Hogan during his era, people didn't care so much about the workrate because they felt emotionally involved in the match

 

Today's WWE Main Eventers can't mask a *-** ME match because they aren't compelling in the least, and since the fans don't care about their character and/or storyline, they tend to actually pay attention to the match itself, the workrate, which is subpar at best.

 

I wouldn't call Batista a hollow charactor. He's got a charactor that actually does what he says he's going to do -- kick BUTT which works well since he's such a monstor in size. Plus he's got that charisma to go along with it. The fans desperately needed that for one of their faces since it was only HHH before that who could do this and he was usually a heel.

 

 

The thing is though that Hogan (especially when he wanted to), Rock who would keep on improving (as a face) and Austin were all very good workers. Austin in particular was a great worker and is one of the best WWF/WWE wrestlers ever. He knew how to construct a match and knew how to work the audience.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

I wouldn't call Batista a hollow charactor. He's got a charactor that actually does what he says he's going to do -- kick BUTT which works well since he's such a monstor in size. Plus he's got that charisma to go along with it. The fans desperately needed that for one of their faces since it was only HHH before that who could do this and he was usually a heel.

 

Also, in a 'sport' where faces tend to be extremely gullible/stupid (think Sting), Batista is usually one step ahead of the baddies. One of the things that got him superover at the start of his push is that it was apparent that Trip thought he was playing Batista when in reality he was the one being played. This sort of thing happened again last fall when Batista was expecting Eddy to betray him at some point during their partnership.

[The Amazing Rando 0]

Batista is an incredibly hollow character. "I am a monster that will kick your ass" is EXACTLY what two-dimensional is.

 

Almost (almost) every single wrestler in WWE is nothing more than a two-dimensional being. It's a name and a gimmick and that's it. Very little of them have any real motivation, and even if they do, it is incredibly shoddy and is hardly consistent.

 

You can say that HHH, Foley, Heyman (to a point), Vince (again, to a point), and CM Punk are some of the only ones with real motivation and a good (established or beginnings to a) three dimensional character.

 

HHH has always been after the title, pretty much consistently. When he ISN'T, it is usually because of something presenting itself as a distraction.

 

Foley has been a three-dimensional character ever since his interviews with JR way back when. The only difference between now and then is that then the three faces were seen as almost split personalities, whereas now they are simply characters he played that somehow made him into "The Hardcore Legend" that he is today.

 

Heyman has created a third dimension inside himself, especially recently, with turning his back on his own "family" and the people that made him. Remember, he did the same thing with Brock (for the Big Show no less) after he "brought in Brock".

 

Vince's third dimension lives in his megalomaniacal mentality as someone that wants everyone to live under his thumb and basically be slaves to him, and when he can't get that, he does everything in his power to destroy them. It is more than just "evil boss". Eric Bischoff was the evil boss. Eric also let others manipulate him (like the nWo/Hogan and HHH/Evolution) while Vince has always been seen as the one really in charge.

 

Vince is not only the Greater Power...he IS the Greater Power. Period. That is a bit of a third dimension.

 

CM Punk is beginning to show himself as someone who is more than just a "rookie" with an attitude. He wants competition and he thrives on it, and is building something out of it. He isn't just going out and wrestling for nothing. He is one of the few guys on any of the rosters that does not need a storyline to have a story. He doesn't need a specific antagonist (or protagonist) as he has his own self to push his own self to higher limits.

 

Hell, looking at that small list, every other person there needs someone gonig against them for their characters to work. That doesn't mean they are two dimensional, but it would be much better if a larger portion of the roster could show more direction and focus. Whether it be on a championship, or a particular special victory of a certain opponent, something. That needs to be portrayed as something that is desired more than just as a win. There have been few guys that have gotten one of those big wins and used it as a stepping stone to greater things.

 

There aren't many matches like that left that help people do that. The KOTR was doing that towards the end (with the title shot stip) and now the MITB is doing it, and has helped two out of the two winners. So good show for it so far. I might even make ammends and say that Edge is beginning to enter that 3-D realm, his egotistical and narcissist lust staying incredibly consistent, and even when he does have the title, it's not enough. No matter how many times he yells that he doesn't care about what the people think, you can sort of see that he secretly wants to be accepted for finally achieving his dreams regardless of how exactly he did it.

 

 

 

Unless a wrestler is near perfect workrate wise, it takes a little kick into that third dimension, more than charisma...more than fan support...more than even the entire heel or face dynamic....you need something else there to pull a match to truly memorable levels. It would be very hard to find a match where two mediocre two-dimensional wrestlers pulled out a four-star affair.

 

Even the Nastys/Cactus/Maxx Payne (or whatever tag that was) from WCW that was a **** (or *****) match, while it might have had mediocre *wrestlers* it did had very very good hardcore-type brawlers that could work that style of match and make it memorable. So I guess you have to take in the style of the match and the wrestlers into consideration too.

 

I can't exactly see Randy Orton and John Cena going into a crazy three or four month feud culminating in an I Quit Match and having it being memorable for any good reasons. It doesn't fit their styles. Well, to be fair, that isn't much AT ALL that fits their styles...but that's a whole 'nother tangant.

 

 

I'm done.

[FroGG_NeaL 0]

Like I said, Batista was given Brock's spot when he left.

 

Same as Rey was given Eddie's Spot when he passed.

 

Brock was Vince's next big guy that he could make a big time main eventer out of.

 

Then he left, Batista was doing good in an enforcer role in Evolution, then when he turned on HHH, he won the title and took the spot Brock had on SD. From there, everything has went to hell over there.

 

It's a good, straight NWA-80's style wrestling show now, with a modern bend, which is good and I think once SD makes the move to the CW or whatever it's called, there will be some big things goin' on.

 

But yeah, like I said, Batista was given Brock's spot when he left.

[The Amazing Rando 0]

They shouldn't have been GIVEN spots... they should have been built up into their own spots. Vince shouldn't have said "Oh shit, so-and-so is gone, what are we going to do now?!" He should have said "Okay, so-and-so is gone, what do i have available that might work and provide something FRESH."

 

I don't want to look at Batista and say "oh, that's Brock" and I definitely don't want to look at Rey and say "oh, that's Eddy". I want to look at Batista and say "That's Batista. He deserves to be there." NOT "That's Batista, he's lucky Brock isn't here"

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Actually, Batista stole Orton's spot after his failure of a main event run in later 2004-early 2005 when Batista was starting to get incredibly over at the same time. Lesnar was gone months before there was any major plans for Batista. He was still dicking around with Flair in the tag division at the time. Batista is one of the few examples of the last few years of him getting over and getting pushed because of it, rather than the other way around.

[The Amazing Rando 0]

My point still stands. I don't want to look at one person and know that someone else should be there but isn't for whatever reason.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

My point still stands. I don't want to look at one person and know that someone else should be there but isn't for whatever reason.

 

Orton isn't there because he blew it. That's a little different than somebody leaving or dying.

[FroGG_NeaL 0]

Dude, I never once saide they should have been given spots.

 

There were several other guys who could have used tose pushes that deserved them, worked for them.

 

I dig some of Batista's work. He's over as hell since his return.

 

He shouldn't be the number one face on SD!, though.

 

I don't know who should be at this point, though.

 

That's the problem.

 

With Rey, they should have dropped the entire Orton/Guerrero angle when Eddie passed.

 

The entire Rey/Orton fued was some of the most disrespectful, bullshit I've seen. for real. Think about Chavo and Benoit's testimonies to Eddie, then think of Rey's with the taking off od the mask, and all that planned shit. Benoit brok down on live national tv. I felt so bad for dude, having lost 3 brothers in the past 2 1/2 years myself, it was like watching me or my other brothers, and shit on tv.

 

But then Rey bcomes Eddie. He's using his spirit to do a shitty dance, shitty frog splash, drive "his cars", come out to his music, take over his fued, dedicate matches to him, wear the EG armbands....

 

 

Jesus Christ man, that shit is fucked the fuck up.

 

So no, no way in hell do i think Rey deserved his push after Eddie passed, especially not the Eddie push he got.

 

Batista, he's done pretty well for himself getting over on his own, with out really seeming like the dude who got Brock's spot.

 

Like I said though, some one else needs to be the top face on SD.

 

King Booker and his Court are perfect for the Main Event Heels.

 

You've got Batista, Rey, Lashley...whoever on the MainEvent Face side.

They need somebody else for the top face, with Batista staying in there, and Lashley making his way to the World Title after he's sayed in the US Title Division for a minute.

 

With some of these new guys being brought in that I've heard good things about, Terkay and Blu...

 

If they brought by Gunner Scott with a new look, and had Dean Malenko as his manager, I think dude could be a player.

 

If they could just dedicate some more time and attention to the Cruiserweight and Tag-team divisions, SD could get very good over the next few months.

[The Amazing Rando 0]

Kahran, I wasn't specifically referencing Orton there. It was more of a generalized statement.

 

 

Frogg, I wasn't saying you said they should be given spots. I was simply lamenting the fact that I would rather have people earn there places than be simply dropped/shoved into them.

 

It is very rare that Vince allows people that earn their spot to keep it. He did it for Batista, probably because of Orton's total failure. He did it for the Rock and for Austin, he's done it for a few others too. There are a few successes in his uber-pushes, like Brock, but even Brock felt really forced until after he had the title for a few months. Some people didn't even consider him a "success" until his stretcher match with Big Show (for whatever reason).

 

The ones in the top spots really do not seem to enjoy other people underneath them coming up and getting over on their own accord. There egos seem to drown out the simple fact that if the company is more successful as a whole, then it is easy to assertain that those in the top spots will also be successful. But no, egos get in the way, and that's when the problems start.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

On the cover of the new WWE Magazine w/ Trish:

 

"The rumors are true! Randy Orton! $17,000 in fines! Backstage brawl! Psychological counseling!"

 

(similar words, the fine total and brawl is correct)

[Guest DRH 502]

Orton is the dude who banged every piece of ass in your local high school, scored the winning touch down at the championship game his junior year, then got kicked off senior year for smoking weed in the bathhouse. He is also the dude who beat you up and took your lunch money so he could score a hit of X from the campus dealer. I can see why most of you dorks hate him, but come on. He is the fucking man. God like even...

[Bruce Blank 0]

God doesn't smoke weed

 

and yes he is exactly that guy - the same guy that's totally lost outside of High School when it becomes obvious he's got nothing going for him other than his looks.

[what 0]

I dunno what's up with the Batista hate here. The only problems with him being the #1 face are that he's old and injury prone, nothing to do with his character. He's hugely over and entertaining.

[Gert T 0]

I agree, I liked Batista's promos about Mark Henry about how he almost wrecked his family because he couldn't take his aggression out in the ring.

[FroGG_NeaL 0]

Yeah.

 

"Henry, I couldn't kick your ass because I wasnted cleared to wrestle, so I Batista Bombed my wife through the coffee table. And it's all your fault, you Son of a bitch!"

[Atticus Chaos 0]

God doesn't smoke weed

 

and yes he is exactly that guy - the same guy that's totally lost outside of High School when it becomes obvious he's got nothing going for him other than his looks.

I think Orton's got a lot more going for him than his looks. He is a pretty good wrestler, chinlocks aside.

[FroGG_NeaL 0]

"God doesn't smoke weed."

 

"Love everything Green, that's what God said" - Bizzy Bone

[Prophet of Mike Zagurski 0]

Orton is the dude who banged every piece of ass in your local high school, scored the winning touch down at the championship game his junior year, then got kicked off senior year for smoking weed in the bathhouse. He is also the dude who beat you up and took your lunch money so he could score a hit of X from the campus dealer. I can see why most of you dorks hate him, but come on. He is the fucking man. God like even...

 

I don't know where the hell you went to high school but I don't associate Orton with that, The Internet hates those that pushed that are not Canadian or not named Chris.

[NoCalMike 0]

A follow-up to my last reply.

 

A good example is John Cena, WWE is doing everything possible to get Cena over as a sympathetic face, I mean how many times already have we had to endure Jim Ross whining about Cena being screwed out of the title, or having the match stolen. The writers are really trying to emphasize that he is THE MAN, but due to circumstances he keeps coming up a little short. The crowd is barely buying this, because Cena himself is unable to project the emotion across to the fans without coming off looking hollow. Thus he can't get enough of the crowd behind him to be a true babyface, so WWE had to switch gears and have Cena start acknowleding the boos that he receives, and he has to play it off like it is ok with him and he isn't bothered by it, this is their new desperate attempt to win fans over to Cena's side. If it fails again, he will probably turn heel again.

[FroGG_NeaL 0]

If it fails again, he will probably turn heel again.

 

 

Which should have happened a long time ago.

[uhftv 0]

The long-time criticism of CM Punk has been that he "imitates" a wrestling match instead of "working" a wrestling match.

 

So they're just trying to protect the creative concept of Eugene, which has made so much money for the company.

[Bruce Blank 0]

God doesn't smoke weed

 

and yes he is exactly that guy - the same guy that's totally lost outside of High School when it becomes obvious he's got nothing going for him other than his looks.

I think Orton's got a lot more going for him than his looks. He is a pretty good wrestler, chinlocks aside.

I will only agree with that statement if your definition of "pretty good" means "He can be carried to a pretty good match"