Boxing Thread

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

How many Hall of Fame caliber fighters have retired undefeated? Rocky Marciano, Ricardo Lopez, Laszlo Papp come to mind.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

How many Hall of Fame caliber fighters have retired undefeated? Rocky Marciano, Ricardo Lopez, Laszlo Papp come to mind.

 

Floyd Mayweather Jr.

[Guest]

Floyd was never undisputed anything. Maybe at 130. Big maybe.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Floyd was never undisputed anything.

 

Are you trying to deny that he isn't a HOF caliber fighter? If so, you're retarded.

[Guest]

I never said that. He could come back, lose five straight, and still be a HOF caliber fighter in my eyes.

[Obi Chris Kenobi 0]

Its always interesting read the American's take on Joe Calzaghe and then the UK's take. I wonder if he was an American, the roles would be reversed and we'd be saying the same things.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

I never said that. He could come back, lose five straight, and still be a HOF caliber fighter in my eyes.

 

So how is your original statement relevent to the question by alkeiper? He didn't need to be undisputed in ANY division. He went to each weight class and fought the best fighters in the division... He didn't need to fight bum fighters who were alphabet champions, he just wanted to fight the best fighters who were considered the best in that division. That's better then being an undisputed champion in my books.

 

Floyd is without a doubt the best fighter of this decade, and I'm not even a huge fan of the guy, atleast nowadays.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Its always interesting read the American's take on Joe Calzaghe and then the UK's take. I wonder if he was an American, the roles would be reversed and we'd be saying the same things.

 

I'm Canadian, but on the real Calzaghe will never be considered an all time great. HOF fighter? Sure, but he will never be in my top 50 P4P boxers ever.

 

For years he ducked the best fighters during their primes. He fought and struggled with C and B-level opponets, while being scared shitless to step out of the UK. I give him props for beating Kessler, I still think he lost to Hopkins, and Reid both of whom Calzaghe has refused to give rematches to. That is not a real champion in my books.

[Obi Chris Kenobi 0]

Ah fair enough, I don't have an opinion on the guy. I don't really watch much boxing apart from the odd PPV bout now and again, so it'd be wrong for me to say he was great or crap either way. Just thought I'd point out it was a bit funny how all the Brits blindly adore him, and all the Americans say he's a wimp. Just wonder if it'd be the same if the tables were turned.

 

 

[Lei Tong 0]

I hope Jorge Arce gets his ass kicked this weekend.

 

You'll likely get your wish. Vic hits way too hard and Jorge is way too hittable. He'll put up more of a fight than Mijares did before he goes down early.

 

On the Brits, the thing that's always confused me is why they never seemed to like Lewis that much. Granted, he won his medal for Canada, but you figure they'd take some pride in having the best HW since Holmes calling himself a Brit.

[Guest]

So how is your original statement relevent to the question by alkeiper? He didn't need to be undisputed in ANY division. He went to each weight class and fought the best fighters in the division... He didn't need to fight bum fighters who were alphabet champions, he just wanted to fight the best fighters who were considered the best in that division. That's better then being an undisputed champion in my books.

 

Boy oh boy. Where to start.

 

So how is your original statement relevent to the question by alkeiper?

 

I said, would Calzaghe be the worst undisputed champion to retire undefeated, and for some reason, you mentioned Floyd.

He went to each weight class and fought the best fighters in the division...

\

 

Simply put, that's dogshit. He went to 140 and scraped the absolute bottom of the barrel. Corley, Bruseles, Gatti. Murderer's row. He got a belt at 147 by beating Mitchell, Judah, and Baldomir. Judah is a gatekeeper and the other two suck shit. He beat Hatton, yeah, but Hatton had already showed he had problems at 147 before. His only other fight there was really close.

 

He didn't need to fight bum fighters who were alphabet champions

But he did.

 

That's better then being an undisputed champion in my books.

Depends. True greatness is sticking in a division, fighting good fighters (not guys like Baldomir) and cleaning them out. Welterweight is stacked and Floyd just fucking bitched out of any other fight. Now he wants to fight a guy who won his first title at flyweight? Fucking please. What Floyd did measures up with all-time pound for pound. He wasn't an undisputed champion, which was my point in the first place. Anyway...

 

 

And w/r/t Joe Calzaghe, if he was American, he would've had to fight the best. Truth be told, I have no respect for his accomplishments. Kessler was the only fighter in his prime and worth his salt that Calzaghe ever beat. It's kinda the same with Chris John. He's hung out in southeast Asia, padding his record and beating weak opposition. Only one big name guy was willing to take the 30,000 dollar payday and go fight him. Arthur Abraham gets away with the same stuff.

[Obi Chris Kenobi 0]

I hope Jorge Arce gets his ass kicked this weekend.

 

You'll likely get your wish. Vic hits way too hard and Jorge is way too hittable. He'll put up more of a fight than Mijares did before he goes down early.

 

On the Brits, the thing that's always confused me is why they never seemed to like Lewis that much Granted, he won his medal for Canada, but you figure they'd take some pride in having the best HW since Holmes calling himself a Brit.

 

I'm not sure, but I always get the impression that we're a nation of boxing fans that only appear when the media circus erupts. We all loved Bruno as he had a lot of media coverage and attention for his fights, same with Joe and Ricky Hatton. A little less for Chris Eubanks, though I can't remember him ever really being liked for some reason.

 

Everyone loved Prince Nassem, again due to his never ending media coverage for his fights.

 

Lennox Lewis just sort of trundled along and never really got much news time for whatever reason, until the end of his career.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

I said, would Calzaghe be the worst undisputed champion to retire undefeated, and for some reason, you mentioned Floyd.

 

I mentioned Floyd because Alkeiper asked the question, how many HOF-caliber fighters have retired undefeated. Floyd has. It said nothing about being an undisputed champion.

 

Simply put, that's dogshit. He went to 140 and scraped the absolute bottom of the barrel. Corley, Bruseles, Gatti. Murderer's row. He got a belt at 147 by beating Mitchell, Judah, and Baldomir. Judah is a gatekeeper and the other two suck shit. He beat Hatton, yeah, but Hatton had already showed he had problems at 147 before. His only other fight there was really close.

 

Let me give you a little history lesson 909...

 

At Junior Welterweight there was no one really left to fight after Gatti... He problay would've fought Vivian Harris, but he got KTFO by a retarded Colombian, Kostya Tszyu retired after the Hatton fight, and at the time Cotto was nowhere ready for Floyd Mayweather. He had no choice but to move up and pursue a fight with the undisputed WW champion, at the time Zab Judah (some gatekeeper eh?)... He needed a tune up fight before the Judah fight, so he took the Mitchell fight.

 

For the record, Mitchell does not suck shit... He always a good boxer for many years, and a tough contender. He was a Light Welterweight champion for a few years as well, until losing it to Kostya Tszyu in controversial fashion. He is not a HOFer or a great boxer by any means, but he does not suck shit and was a solid fighter for many years. But back to the original point...

 

He smoked Mitchell, and waited for Judah(who was the best WW in the world at the time, not some gatekeeper) to beat Baldomir, which was suppose to be an easy win for him. Judah shit the bed against Baldomir and was upsetted, whatever Mayweather still took the Judah fight because even though Judah loss to Baldomir it was still a tougher fight for him. So he beat Judah, and the naysayers still doubted Mayweather was the best at WW, and until he beat Baldomir, who was the real champion since he beat the #1 WW fighter at the time in Judah, he shouldn't be considered the best WW. Sure Baldomir isn't a great boxer by any stretch, but the fact remains he still beat Judah who was at the time the best welterweight in the world.

 

Mayweather easily took The Ring's WW Champion, Carlos Baldomir to school, it was basically a sparring session... And decided to move up and get a crack at the best Light Middleweight in the world, Oscar De La Hoya. He really had nothing left to prove at welterweight.

 

And by the way, even though Ricky Hatton struggled in a few fights, he was still undefeated and beat HOF fighters like Castillo, and Kostya Tszyu, and very good fighters like Juan Urango, Juan Lazcano, and Paulie Malignaggi... He is without a shadow of a doubt the best Light Welterweight other then Kostya Tszyu maybe of this decade.

 

Seems to me you're going out of your way to discredit Floyd which is bullshit and petty.

 

But he did.

 

He also fought the top ranked fighters in the world as well.

 

Depends. True greatness is sticking in a division, fighting good fighters (not guys like Baldomir) and cleaning them out. Welterweight is stacked and Floyd just fucking bitched out of any other fight. Now he wants to fight a guy who won his first title at flyweight? Fucking please. What Floyd did measures up with all-time pound for pound. He wasn't an undisputed champion, which was my point in the first place. Anyway...

 

He beat everyone there was to beat to prove he was the best WW. He held titles in 5 different weight classes beating the best fighters in those weight classes, sure the quality of fighters at light welterweight isn't great, but that was because the division at the same was shit... He still fought the best fighter who was considered the best Light Welterweight.

 

And now you're trying to hate on Floyd for trying to get a fight with the best pound 4 pound fighter in the world? Newsflash, n00b... Manny Pacquaio isn't just a "former flyweight" champion(which he won when he was small 20 year, you dumbass)... He has developed his body into a Light Welterweight body, and if he beats Hatton it will only further the point that he is the best in the division. He is the same "flyweight" who looked more impressive against DLH then Floyd ever did.

 

The fact you're even hating on Floyd for wanting this fight and discrediting him proves you're a fucking idiot when it comes to boxing.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I suspect 909 wrote his post before I posted mine, and he wasn't directly responding to my question. A misunderstanding here.

 

Floyd if he retires undefeated is probably the best undefeated fighter of all time, even over Marciano. Rocky had at least two fights where he escaped by the skin of his teeth.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

I suspect 909 wrote his post before I posted mine, and he wasn't directly responding to my question. A misunderstanding here.

 

Floyd if he retires undefeated is probably the best undefeated fighter of all time, even over Marciano. Rocky had at least two fights where he escaped by the skin of his teeth.

 

Also Marciano's best wins were over a grandpa Joe Louis, two light heavyweights in Ezzard Charles and Jersey Joe Walcott. He retired before the division got good with Floyd Patterson, Ingemar Johansson, and Sonny Liston.

 

Marciano ranks in my top 10 overrated list.

[Guest]

Let me give you a little history lesson 909...

 

At Junior Welterweight there was no one really left to fight after Gatti... He problay would've fought Vivian Harris, but he got KTFO by a retarded Colombian, Kostya Tszyu retired after the Hatton fight, and at the time Cotto was nowhere ready for Floyd Mayweather.

You just mentioned how Tszyu retired after the Hatton fight, well, why didn't Floyd just fight Hatton?

 

For the record, Mitchell does not suck shit... He always a good boxer for many years, and a tough contender. He was a Light Welterweight champion for a few years as well, until losing it to Kostya Tszyu in controversial fashion. He is not a HOFer or a great boxer by any means, but he does not suck shit and was a solid fighter for many years. But back to the original point...

Mitchell sucked shit as a welterweight. You're actually proving my point about how Floyd loves to fight guys who aren't at their best and/or are not at a weight in which they have done anything.

 

He smoked Mitchell, and waited for Judah(who was the best WW in the world at the time, not some gatekeeper) to beat Baldomir, which was suppose to be an easy win for him. Judah shit the bed against Baldomir and was upsetted, whatever Mayweather still took the Judah fight because even though Judah loss to Baldomir it was still a tougher fight for him. So he beat Judah, and the naysayers still doubted Mayweather was the best at WW, and until he beat Baldomir, who was the real champion since he beat the #1 WW fighter at the time in Judah, he shouldn't be considered the best WW. Sure Baldomir isn't a great boxer by any stretch, but the fact remains he still beat Judah who was at the time the best welterweight in the world.

At the time Judah was the best welterweight. But who did he beat? Stinks? He didn't beat anyone on the way there, and afterwards, in fighting any welter worth a crap, he's lost. I don't think anything needs to be said about Baldomir. The fact Judah lost to a bum like that really says it all about Judah.

 

And decided to move up and get a crack at the best Light Middleweight in the world, Oscar De La Hoya. He really had nothing left to prove at welterweight.

There's a guy named Mosley who beat De La Hoya twice. How can you say De La Hoya was the best at 154? Let's just put it simply. An Oscar fight is an easy way to get cash. It has nothing to do with anything else.

 

And by the way, even though Ricky Hatton struggled in a few fights, he was still undefeated and beat HOF fighters like Castillo, and Kostya Tszyu, and very good fighters like Juan Urango, Juan Lazcano, and Paulie Malignaggi... He is without a shadow of a doubt the best Light Welterweight other then Kostya Tszyu maybe of this decade.

And Floyd beat him at 147.

 

He also fought the top ranked fighters in the world as well.

At super feather and lightweight, hell yeah he did. Not just top ranked guys, but guys of real quality.

 

And now you're trying to hate on Floyd for trying to get a fight with the best pound 4 pound fighter in the world? Newsflash, n00b... Manny Pacquaio isn't just a "former flyweight" champion(which he won when he was small 20 year, you dumbass)... He has developed his body into a Light Welterweight body, and if he beats Hatton it will only further the point that he is the best in the division. He is the same "flyweight" who looked more impressive against DLH then Floyd ever did.

I want to see Floyd vs. Pacquiao. I'm calling it what it is though. Manny's win over Oscar doesn't hold too much water. Oscar starved himself to make weight. A LOT of guys would've beaten him. Truth is, we don't really know what Manny is outside of 130. He beat David Diaz, but Diaz was the worst of the lightweight titlists he could've fought. I want Manny to beat Hatton, but I don't know that he will.

 

The fact you're even hating on Floyd for wanting this fight and discrediting him proves you're a fucking idiot when it comes to boxing.

Where's the hate? I really like watching Floyd fight. I discredit his career past 135 because it isn't that good. Floyd would still be the best fighter to retire undefeated. I'm just pointing out where I see flaws in his resume. I don't give any credit for victories over fighters who are unproven at any weight or past their prime.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I suspect 909 wrote his post before I posted mine, and he wasn't directly responding to my question. A misunderstanding here.

 

Floyd if he retires undefeated is probably the best undefeated fighter of all time, even over Marciano. Rocky had at least two fights where he escaped by the skin of his teeth.

 

Also Marciano's best wins were over a grandpa Joe Louis, two light heavyweights in Ezzard Charles and Jersey Joe Walcott. He retired before the division got good with Floyd Patterson, Ingemar Johansson, and Sonny Liston.

 

Marciano ranks in my top 10 overrated list.

You're thinking of Archie Moore as the second light heavy, Walcott weighed between 180-200 most of his career. In fairness to Marciano, he never weighed more than 190 for a fight. He'd be a cruiserweight today if he so chose.

 

I think Marciano could've beaten Johansson and Patterson. Johansson had a great right hand and a so-so chin. That's a recipe for utter disaster against Marciano. Now Liston might've gotten it done, but Marciano would have been legitimately over the hill by the time Liston was a contender.

 

Speaking of Johansson, he just passed away last week.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

You just mentioned how Tszyu retired after the Hatton fight, well, why didn't Floyd just fight Hatton?

 

Well he did fight Hatton eventually, when Hatton established himself even more as a fighter, and it was a bigger money fight.

 

Mitchell sucked shit as a welterweight. You're actually proving my point about how Floyd loves to fight guys who aren't at their best and/or are not at a weight in which they have done anything.

 

It was a tune-up fight nothing more, nothing less... It happens in boxing all the time.

 

At the time Judah was the best welterweight. But who did he beat? Stinks? He didn't beat anyone on the way there, and afterwards, in fighting any welter worth a crap, he's lost. I don't think anything needs to be said about Baldomir. The fact Judah lost to a bum like that really says it all about Judah.

 

Yes he did beat Cory Spinks to become the best WW in the world. Incase you forgot, Cory Spinks was the Undisputed Welterweight Champion, there is nothing more else you can do to prove you are the best fighter in the division. Judah beat the #1 fighter, to become the #1 fighter... It's simple. Trying to argue this is stupidity.

 

There's a guy named Mosley who beat De La Hoya twice. How can you say De La Hoya was the best at 154? Let's just put it simply. An Oscar fight is an easy way to get cash. It has nothing to do with anything else.

 

Mosley career at the time was going down hill and wasn't no longer considered a threat, he dropped two against Winky... Beat a over the hill Vargas which is hardly impressive at the time, even struggled with him in the 1st fight... Then decided to go back down to 147 which is the best career desicion. Plus Mosley never was a champion at the time, and was considered past his prime. He got the biggest payday of his career fighting Oscar, and gain a title to top it off... Which title holder would you rather Floyd fight? Travis Simms or Cory Spinks?

 

And Floyd beat him at 147.

 

Weight didn't make a difference, it's not like Floyd is bigger then Hatton.

 

 

I want to see Floyd vs. Pacquiao. I'm calling it what it is though. Manny's win over Oscar doesn't hold too much water. Oscar starved himself to make weight. A LOT of guys would've beaten him. Truth is, we don't really know what Manny is outside of 130. He beat David Diaz, but Diaz was the worst of the lightweight titlists he could've fought. I want Manny to beat Hatton, but I don't know that he will.

 

Fact is, if Manny blows Hatton out of the water if you complain about Floyd fighting a "flyweight", you're indeed a moron. Floyd wants to fight the best, and if Manny beats Hatton he is the best. We'll see after this happens.

 

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

I suspect 909 wrote his post before I posted mine, and he wasn't directly responding to my question. A misunderstanding here.

 

Floyd if he retires undefeated is probably the best undefeated fighter of all time, even over Marciano. Rocky had at least two fights where he escaped by the skin of his teeth.

 

Also Marciano's best wins were over a grandpa Joe Louis, two light heavyweights in Ezzard Charles and Jersey Joe Walcott. He retired before the division got good with Floyd Patterson, Ingemar Johansson, and Sonny Liston.

 

Marciano ranks in my top 10 overrated list.

You're thinking of Archie Moore as the second light heavy, Walcott weighed between 180-200 most of his career. In fairness to Marciano, he never weighed more than 190 for a fight. He'd be a cruiserweight today if he so chose.

 

I think Marciano could've beaten Johansson and Patterson. Johansson had a great right hand and a so-so chin. That's a recipe for utter disaster against Marciano. Now Liston might've gotten it done, but Marciano would have been legitimately over the hill by the time Liston was a contender.

 

Speaking of Johansson, he just passed away last week.

 

Yeah I meant Archie Moore... Jersey Joe Walcott was an old man by the time he fought Marciano though, past his prime.

[Guest]

Yes he did beat Cory Spinks to become the best WW in the world. Incase you forgot, Cory Spinks was the Undisputed Welterweight Champion, there is nothing more else you can do to prove you are the best fighter in the division. Judah beat the #1 fighter, to become the #1 fighter... It's simple. Trying to argue this is stupidity.

Who did Spinks beat to become undisputed, pray tell? Who did he beat afterward? Who did Judah beat after fighting Spinks? The facts are...welterweight had nothing left after Forrest beat Mosley. Mayorga beat Forrest, and the division went into the wilderness. Floyd became one of the guys in a division that quickly became stacked with top fighters. Then he left.

 

You are getting hung up on belts. I don't care about belts. The best fighters are the best fighters, even if they don't have belts. The latter part of Floyd's career became him finding weak guys to collect belts from. You can be a decent fighter like Spinks and hold all the belts, and yes, be the undisputed champion. That doesn't make Spinks great. What is important is

 

A.) Who you face

 

B.) When you face them

 

C.) At what weight you face them at

 

Floyd didn't fight Oscar because Oscar was good, he fought him because he had a belt and brought money to the table. That doesn't enhance Floyd's legacy in my view. He didn't have to move to 154. He could've stayed at 147 where the talent was getting rich. But no, can't do that.

 

Weight didn't make a difference, it's not like Floyd is bigger then Hatton.

Hatton arguably lost to the only welterweight he faced. He cannot fight at welterweight.

 

Fact is, if Manny blows Hatton out of the water if you complain about Floyd fighting a "flyweight", you're indeed a moron. Floyd wants to fight the best, and if Manny beats Hatton he is the best. We'll see after this happens.

If Floyd fights Manny at 140 after Manny beats Hatton at 140, I've got no problem with it. I do, however, have a problem with Manny fighting anyone at 147. He doesn't stand a chance against any of those guys.

 

I have a problem with any fighter calling out guys in lower weight classes. That's all Oscar has done for years. If a fighter does it once, fine, that's cool. But when you start looking for your only fights to be against smaller guys, well, that's a bitch move. If Manny beats Hatton, Manny is the best junior welterweight. So Floyd should fight him at junior welterweight.

[Coffin Surfer 0]

"Yeah I meant Archie Moore... Jersey Joe Walcott was an old man by the time he fought Marciano though, past his prime."

 

He had just won the World Heavyweight Title(pre-alphabet days, he was the Man) from Ezzard Charles by knockout and fought one of the best fights of his career against Marciano despite coming out on the losing end. Walcott didn't peak until he was almost 34, he was one of his history's craftiest fighters and a freakish athlete that kept his quick hands and feet until the end of his career. Archie Moore was a LHW but he won the right to face Marciano by beating the number one heavyweight in the World in Valdes, only elite heavies like Patterson, Marciano, and Ali would beat Moore once he hit his stride; great company if you ask me. Charles was an All Time Great LHW and a very good Heavyweight Champion. Marciano also has very good wins over contenders like Layne, LaStarza, Cockell, and Matthews.

 

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Kostya Tszyu retired after the Hatton fight

 

Probably still doubled over from that low blow Ricky drilled him with.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Who did Spinks beat to become undisputed, pray tell? Who did he beat afterward? Who did Judah beat after fighting Spinks? The facts are...welterweight had nothing left after Forrest beat Mosley. Mayorga beat Forrest, and the division went into the wilderness. Floyd became one of the guys in a division that quickly became stacked with top fighters. Then he left.

 

You are getting hung up on belts. I don't care about belts. The best fighters are the best fighters, even if they don't have belts. The latter part of Floyd's career became him finding weak guys to collect belts from. You can be a decent fighter like Spinks and hold all the belts, and yes, be the undisputed champion. That doesn't make Spinks great. What is important is

 

A.) Who you face

 

B.) When you face them

 

C.) At what weight you face them at

 

Floyd didn't fight Oscar because Oscar was good, he fought him because he had a belt and brought money to the table. That doesn't enhance Floyd's legacy in my view. He didn't have to move to 154. He could've stayed at 147 where the talent was getting rich. But no, can't do that.

 

Cory Spinks beat Ricardo Mayorga to become the unified champion, Mayorga at the time was the #1 ranked welterweight after beating Vernon Forrest, who became the #1 WW after beating Shane Mosley.

 

Arguing with you about this is retarded because you fail to ignore the facts. If Cory Spinks wasn't the #1 welterweight at the time he was the undisputed welterweight champion , who was then? All major boxing sites and magazines had Spinks and Judah as the #1 welterweight while they were the undisputed champion. And same with Baldomir after he beat Judah.

 

If you want to argue the division at the time was shitty, fine... You won't get arguements from me, the fact remains Floyd did fight the best in the division at the time.

 

Hatton arguably lost to the only welterweight he faced. He cannot fight at welterweight.

 

He struggled against Collazo in that fight mainly because Collazo is a very big welterweight, and he was virtually unknown at the time. No one knew what Collazo was capable of, and those are the fights that are dangerous. Collazo is also the 1st quality southpaw Hatton has faced, plus you factor in Hatton wasn't in very good shape. Hatton looked great early in the fight, even knocking Collazo down... Then being out of shape caught up to him, and you don't know come out of shape against a fighter like Collazo, who has proven to be a very tough contender in a rich WW division right now.

 

If Floyd fights Manny at 140 after Manny beats Hatton at 140, I've got no problem with it. I do, however, have a problem with Manny fighting anyone at 147. He doesn't stand a chance against any of those guys.

 

I have a problem with any fighter calling out guys in lower weight classes. That's all Oscar has done for years. If a fighter does it once, fine, that's cool. But when you start looking for your only fights to be against smaller guys, well, that's a bitch move. If Manny beats Hatton, Manny is the best junior welterweight. So Floyd should fight him at junior welterweight.

 

Manny has the size where he can move up to WW and fight comfortably at... There were even talks of matching him up against Margarito who is a much bigger fighter then Floyd. When Manny fought at WW, his speed or power didn't diminished at all... You're making assumptions that he can't fight at welterweight. And you're making assumptions Floyd is going to call him out at 147 when it has yet to happen. Until then this argument is a moot point.

[Guest]

If you want to argue the division at the time was shitty, fine... You won't get arguements from me, the fact remains Floyd did fight the best in the division at the time.

That is my argument. And when the division got good again, Floyd bailed on the sport.

 

When Manny fought at WW, his speed or power didn't diminished at all... You're making assumptions that he can't fight at welterweight.

Similarly, you are assuming he can fight at welterweight because he defeated a has-been who starved himself to make 147.

 

Floyd Sr. already said his son wants to fight Pacquiao. If Pacquiao beats Hatton, Floyd will call him out. Common sense. And like I said...I have a problem with Pacquiao fighting at welterweight.

[Guest]

Vic smashed Arce's face in. Can't wait to see what he does next.

[snuffbox 0]

Kid Diamond really needs to retire.

[snuffbox 0]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/mma/...e.ap/index.html

 

Marge and his trainer have been suspended for a year. Bob Arum, class act as always, says he'll just book him in Mexico. I'm not sure how adament the commission there is about ensuring that their local boxing deities don't bathe their hands in plaster.

 

 

[Guest]

Nate Campbell failed to make weight for his title fight. As a result, his (what was once) undisputed (questionable) lightweight title will be going the same place his career has gone. Down the toilet.

[Lei Tong 0]

And I didn't think it was possible for me to want Funeka to wreck his shit any worse.

[Guest]

He only lost half a pound in the two hours he had to make weight. He probably didn't even try to lose weight after coming in three pounds over. I want Funeka to wreck him, but that's not happening. JLC-Chico II style in this one.

 

What a moron.

 

Thought about it more...Funeka's stopping him.