4,000 dead Americans

[Dobbs 3K 0]

What about "shock & awe", though?

 

Seriously, just bring our troops home. Iraq has democracy, Saddam Hussein is dead. It's up to the Iraqis to decide whether they want to join the civilized world or continue to kill each other.

[snuffbox 0]

Shock/awe was a bombing mission whereas the succeeding years have been ground forces missions. Shock/awe lasted only a very short period of time and this 'slick/agile force' thing has lasted into its 4th calendar year. The Powell Doctrine (a philosphy very similar to how Barry Goldwater, a personal hero of General Powell, would have approached the Vietnam War had he been in Johnson's shoes...though that does not necessarily mean he would have invaded SE Asia) would have featured an overwhelming ground force as well as the overwhelming bombings. Don Rumsfeld, a man of negligible naval experience and none in actual combat, disagreed with General Powell's doctine and favored the infamous sleek/agile/small style. History, moving at a pace more rapid than is often seen, is already proving which philosophy is best.

 

Amazingly enough the sleek/agile force favored by Rumsfeld should have presumabley saved some of our expenses. Unfortunately it now appears that the real estimates of $1.2 trillion may prove to be an UNDERESTIMATE & this will probably have cost far more than an overwhelming squash would have.

[EricMM 0]

Waaaaaaaaaaaay more.

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I wont be surprised if/when our Iraq bill tops $2 trillion. The recent report of over 12 billion dollars in cash disappearing into Iraq, a fact both acknowledged and unapologized for by those that did it, shows the utter lack of care this Administration has towards wasting unprecedented amounts of money.

 

And yet people who mindlessly support this Republican policy look back on disapproval of the New Deal.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

I wont be surprised if/when our Iraq bill tops $2 trillion. The recent report of over 12 billion dollars in cash disappearing into Iraq, a fact both acknowledged and unapologized for by those that did it, shows the utter lack of care this Administration has towards wasting unprecedented amounts of money.

 

And yet people who mindlessly support this Republican policy look back on disapproval of the New Deal.

 

Funny how the evil socialist FDR managed to win the war he was in, though.

[Guest Vitamin X]

 

Peter King (R-NY) comparing Baghdad to Manhattan.

[SuperJerk 0]

Inspector general: Pentagon manipulated prewar intel

Story Highlights

• NEW: Policy office was "inappropriate" in advancing unsupported intelligence

• Report says Pentagon manipulated Iraq intelligence to create al Qaeda link

• Inspector general's report says efforts were inappropriate but not illegal

• Levin had asked for investigation of Pentagon's policy chief Douglas Feith's office

 

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Pentagon officials undercut the intelligence community in the run-up to the U.S. invasion of Iraq by insisting in briefings to the White House that there was a clear relationship between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda, the Defense Department's inspector general said Friday.

 

Acting Inspector General Thomas F. Gimble told the Senate Armed Services Committee that the office headed by former Pentagon policy chief Douglas J. Feith took "inappropriate" actions in advancing conclusions on al Qaeda connections not backed up by the nation's intelligence agencies.

 

Gimble said that while the actions of the Office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Policy "were not illegal or unauthorized," they "did not provide the most accurate analysis of intelligence to senior decision makers" at a time when the White House was moving toward war with Iraq. (Read the unclassified portion of the report -- PDF)

 

"I can't think of a more devastating commentary," said Armed Services Committee Chairman Sen. Carl Levin, D-Michigan.

 

He cited Gimble's findings that Feith's office was, despite doubts expressed by the intelligence community, pushing conclusions that September 11 hijacker Mohammed Atta had met an Iraqi intelligence officer in Prague five months before the attack, and that there were "multiple areas of cooperation" between Iraq and al Qaeda, including shared pursuit of weapons of mass destruction. (Watch Feith fight back)

 

"That was the argument that was used to make the sale to the American people about the need to go to war," Levin said in an interview Thursday. He said the Pentagon's work, "which was wrong, which was distorted, which was inappropriate ... is something which is highly disturbing."

 

Rep. Ike Skelton, D-Missouri, chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, said Friday the report "clearly shows that Doug Feith and others in that office exercised extremely poor judgment for which our nation, and our service members in particular, are paying a terrible price."

 

Republicans on the panel disagreed. Sen. Jim Inhofe, R-Oklahoma, said the "probing questions" raised by Feith's policy group improved the intelligence process.

 

"I'm trying to figure out why we are here," said Sen. Saxby Chambliss, R-Georgia, saying the office was doing its job of analyzing intelligence that had been gathered by the CIA and other intelligence agencies.

 

Gimble responded that at issue was that the information supplied by Feith's office in briefings to the National Security Council and the office of Vice President Dick Cheney was "provided without caveats" that there were varying opinions on its reliability.

 

Gimble's report said Feith's office had made assertions "that were inconsistent with the consensus of the intelligence community."

 

At the White House, spokesman Dana Perino said President Bush has revamped the U.S. spy community to try avoiding a repeat of flawed intelligence affecting policy decisions by creating a director of national intelligence and making other changes.

 

"I think what he has said is that he took responsibility, and that the intel was wrong, and that we had to take measures to revamp the intel community to make sure that it never happened again," Perino told reporters.

 

Defense Department spokesman Bryan Whitman denied that the office was producing its own intelligence products, saying they were challenging what was coming in from intelligence-gathering professionals, "looking at it with a critical eye."

 

Some Democrats also have contended that Feith misled Congress about the basis of the administration's assertions on the threat posed by Iraq, but the Pentagon investigation did not support that.

 

Levin calls IG report 'very damning'

In a telephone interview Thursday, Levin said the IG report is "very damning" and shows a Pentagon policy shop trying to shape intelligence to prove a link between al Qaeda and Saddam.

 

Levin in September 2005 had asked the inspector general to determine whether Feith's office's activities were appropriate, and if not, what remedies should be pursued.

 

The 2004 report from the September 11 commission found no evidence of a collaborative relationship between Saddam and Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida terror organization before the U.S. invasion.

 

Asked to comment on the IG's findings, Feith said in a telephone interview that he had not seen the report but was pleased to hear that it concluded his office's activities were neither illegal nor unauthorized. He took strong issue, however, with the finding that some activities had been "inappropriate."

 

"The policy office has been smeared for years by allegations that its pre-Iraq-war work was somehow 'unlawful' or 'unauthorized' and that some information it gave to congressional committees was deceptive or misleading," said Feith, who left his Pentagon post in August 2005.

 

Feith called "bizarre" the inspector general's conclusion that some intelligence activities by the Office of Special Plans, which was created while Feith served as the undersecretary of defense for policy -- the top policy position under then-Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld -- were inappropriate but not unauthorized.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/02/09/ira...l.ap/index.html

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Gen. Tommy Franks on Doug Feith:

 

the fucking stupidest guy on the face of the earth

[snuffbox 0]

Hagel took the time to go through all the anti-war resolutions (both binding and non...and fund cutting) led by Republicans during the Clinton Admin. Is was really something to see.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Hagel took the time to go through all the anti-war resolutions (both binding and non...and fund cutting) led by Republicans during the Clinton Admin. Is was really something to see.

 

I wish more people would call the Republican party on their flat out hypocrisy, comparing the Clinton years to today. It's really completely hilarious and insane at the same time. They used to be the ones saying "We can support our troops and criticize the war", now if someone does it they're "giving aid and comfort to the enemy".

[Guest Vitamin X]

Well the party that's not in power is typically the one that's going to criticize the one that is, and the argument a Republican would make for what you're stating is that the domestic and foreign threats during the Clinton administration were much different than they are in a post-9/11 world, in which there's some truth to that.

[snuffbox 0]

Clinton bombed Somolia well before 9-11, the Republicans then opposed it. Bush focused on Iraq rather than Al Qaeda after 9-11. Something is terribly wrong there & at least some of the more distinguished Republicans (veteran Hagel, former Armed Services chmn Warner) are showing opposition to Bush's ardent focus on the wrong policy.

[BorneAgain 0]

If one gets the chance, check out Imperial Life in the Emerald City. Real eye opener regarding the CPA and some of Bremer's choices in post invasion Iraq. I wonder, if the Coalition Provisional Authority hadn't been so removed from the real Iraq, so naive, so much in a rush to turn the country into some neo-conservative economic paradise, how many people wouldn't have joined the insurgency, and how successful a post war Iraq could have been.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

These stories of truck loads of money disappearing during the reign of the CPA & Viceroy Bremer are somewhat disconcerting.

[BorneAgain 0]

These stories of truck loads of money disappearing during the reign of the CPA & Viceroy Bremer are somewhat disconcerting.

There were so many inexperienced people in high positions in the CPA and such a lack of communication, I'm honestly surprised the amount wasn't more. Much of the money meant to rebuild to country went through so much bureaucratic red tape that it was barely being used, even a year after Bremer left.

[SuperJerk 0]

Most Lawmakers Support Clinton's Military Strikes

But some Republicans raise questions about the timing of anti-terrorist attacks

[snuffbox 0]

These stories of truck loads of money disappearing during the reign of the CPA & Viceroy Bremer are somewhat disconcerting.

 

But the 12 billion dollars lost doesn't feel so bad because of our 98% tax cuts.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Good point.

[snuffbox 0]

People apparently got all riled up because Obama said the 3,000 plus dead American troops were 'wasted' by the Admin.

 

Yeah, its not wasting, dying is a good thing if your an American.

[NoCalMike 0]

So with all the debate today in the House over the War, the republicans still seem to be using the line, "If we leave, they will follow us"

 

I'd really like them to clarify who "they" are. They keep getting away with this and other similar phrases, but it has been shown for the last year or so that foreign fighters in Iraq aren't even the main problem it is the Iraqis themselves, the civil war that our soldiers are in the middle of.

 

No one is talking about leaving Afganistan, especially considering the job isn't done there either.

 

I'd just like Republicans to clarify who "they" are, that are going to come over here because we choose to get out of the middle of Iraq's civil war.

 

This thinking is baffling. Did these guys forget that it was what 19 highjackers on 9/11? Not an entire country or city or even tribe. It was 19 people. It is silly to think 19 more people couldn't be rounded up to do it again merely because we are in Iraq and/or Afganistan. Not to mention the majority didn't come from EITHER of those countries. None of these countries declared war on America. If there are people in these countries that want to kill us, which there surely is, then go after them and root them out and kill them, but if Iraq model shows us anything, it is ridiculous to just declare war on a country(oh yeah and claim you are liberating them) when the real enemy is such a small faction of people.

[SuperJerk 0]

Don't you realize that it never occurred to terrorists to attack us until Democrats started talking about withdrawing troops from Iraq?

[SuperJerk 0]

Yeah, it figures Pres. Bush would pick a day I'm home because of snow to have a live TV press conference.

 

I'll summarize:

-They'll follow us home.

-Congress just doesn't want to win.

-I know its a mess over there, but trust me because I'll fix it.

-The Congressional anti-war resolution will just make our troops feel bad.

 

Rinse, lather, repeat.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

-The Congressional anti-war resolution will just make our troops feel bad.

 

Yeah, I'm sure a Congressional resolution is at the top of a soldier's daily worry list, when they're risking life and limb.

 

It could be an isolated example, but I spoke with a soldier I'm acquainted with a few months ago when he was home on leave, and he said it's tough to stay on top of world events (he hadn't heard about North Korea launching those missiles) when you're in Iraq, so I doubt they are watching C-SPAN religiously.

[SuperJerk 0]

That makes me wonder...Is there any recent polling data on percentage of the troops that want to continue the war, versus troops that think our forces should be withdrawn?

[Art Sandusky 0]

Depends on which network you want to watch. According to MSNBC, the soldiers are exasperated and want to come home. On CNN, they're continuing their job with reservations. On Fox, none of them want to come home until they've finished what they started no matter what.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Depends on which network you want to watch. According to MSNBC, the soldiers are exasperated and want to come home. On CNN, they're continuing their job with reservations. On Fox, none of them want to come home until they've finished what they started no matter what.

 

I suppose it depends how the question is asked. I mean, is a soldier going to say "no" to a question like "Do you want to go home soon to see your wife and children?" You could come up with something for the reverse.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Yup. I'm really interested in how the media handles wars in the rest of my lifetime, given the average American's growing distrust in virtually any institution.

[hyperchord24 0]

I don't pay all that much attention to politics, but for Bush to say that he's "putting more money in Iraq and that's the end of it" seems so ignorant. Does he realize he's not a dictator? Does he realize that there's checks and balances? Makes me feel like when a new president is elected in '08, and the he tries to take office, Bush is going to have troops positioned everywhere to execute something like order 66 and take over as dictator.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Behind the door of Army Spec. Jeremy Duncan's room, part of the wall is torn and hangs in the air, weighted down with black mold. When the wounded combat engineer stands in his shower and looks up, he can see the bathtub on the floor above through a rotted hole. The entire building, constructed between the world wars, often smells like greasy carry-out. Signs of neglect are everywhere: mouse droppings, belly-up cockroaches, stained carpets, cheap mattresses.

 

This is the world of Building 18, not the kind of place where Duncan expected to recover when he was evacuated to Walter Reed Army Medical Center from Iraq last February with a broken neck and a shredded left ear, nearly dead from blood loss. But the old lodge, just outside the gates of the hospital and five miles up the road from the White House, has housed hundreds of maimed soldiers recuperating from injuries suffered in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan...

 

It goes on...

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...7021701172.html

[snuffbox 0]

The VA needs a good Warren Harding throttling.

 

This is a bypropuct of draft dodgers running the military. They have zero concern for what soldiers deserve both in the field & for the rest of their lives when/if they've returned home.