It Looks Like Austin Is Gone For Good

[Guest]

Okay, here's my random thoughts on this situation...

 

A wise man once told me something very insightful about works and shoots.  "Everything you see on TV is a work."  Sometimes I have lapses (I'm human, and I err just like any other human), but for the most part, I ascribe to this theory.

 

Austin's only gone for one night.  He's done this before.  I think it's too early to say "Austin's gone for good."  Although, for personal ego reasons, I kinda want to think that he is gone for good, because then a prediction I made a few months ago (and I think I voiced it on the smarkboard) is that Austin's 2002 would end up like Bret Hart's 1997.  I want to be "right" hence I sort of want to see that happen, but it's too early to jump to that conclusion.

 

I used to hate watching Austin in 1998 and 1999, and I did quite my share of "he never jobs" bitching in those years.  Of course, that was long long ago and on a discussion board far far away.  I was mad at him for refusing to work with Jarrett (even though it was payback for Jarrett not wanting to work with him in USWA and using his pull with daddy to keep Austin down, so I kinda understood it).  

 

Someone needs to voice the criticism that Austin is voicing -- whether his motives are altruistic or whether they're selfish.  Vince needs to stop listening to the court sycophants who simply tell him what he wants to hear so he'll keep giving them paychecks and listen to the people who dare to say the product sucks.  Austin's criticism is near dead-on.  His motives?  I don't know.  Could well be a selfish tantrum.  His expression?  Well, if he deliberately no-showed and forced last minute on the fly hotshot booking (and let's face it, that's what Vince vs Flair was, and I didn't like it one bit), well then Austin is contributing to the problem that he's decrying.

 

I do think we the smark community, in general (there are individual exceptions of course) do seem to give Austin more slack in these matters, and that if HHH, Hogan, Nash, or X-Pac were doing this, this board would be choked with hateful, outraged, flaming posts.  [No I didn't forget to list HBK, I left him off because I think he has a large "clique" of apologists much like Austin.]  I personally don't think I give Austin slack; I think I'm pretty hard on him.  But then, I realize as I type this that I'm not nearly as hard on him as I was in 1998 and 1999.  Maybe I've been made soft by his latter ring work.  Or more likely I've decided that HHH, Hogan, and Vince are greater ego-evils than Austin.

 

For my money, only two people are worthy of holding the Undisputed World Title right now, in terms of ring work quality and over-ness:  those two are Kurt Angle and The Rock.  And with The Rock on sabbaticcal, guess who that leaves...  Jericho needs to be built back up [i'd use the beatdown of Edge as a catalyst for "bad ass" ing him up, possibly to be leader of my pet idea which I never shut up about, the Four Fozzymen, and a Submission Victory over Triple H for the title at Summerslam, "exploiting the soft quad."]

 

I enjoyed HBK's performance last night.  I sat down and watched his segment with rapt attention.  Great promo.  Great performer.  But I still hate the person behind it, primarily for the backstage tantrum throwing that HE got away with but Bret Hart got crucified for when he FINALLY threw a counter-tantrum.  [Yep, you guessed it, I'm a die-hard Hitman fan, always is, always was, always will be ].  Which puts HBK one leg up on HHH, who I hate for the backstage politics AND get bored watching go through the same old motions.

 

My gut feeling is that Austin is taking his stand for selfish reasons.  Assuming, of course, that this really is "taking a stand" and not the mother of all works.  I still feel that Austin will end 2002 in much the same state Bret Hart ended 1997, only Austin will have no competing company to jump to (and be horribly mismanaged by).  But taking a stand for selfish reasons is still taking a stand, and if Austin saying "Vince, your product sucks" actually shakes Vince out of his "Dawn Marie & Stacy Kiebler really do like me!" wet-dream fantasy world and brings him back to Planet Reality, or keeps him from writing another blank check for the kliq, then bravo.  Vince needs to listen to somebody who isn't kissing his ass, and let's be honest:  Vince is much more likely to listen to Austin than any of us.  (Although I think sometimes that Vince DOES listen to me and then proceed to do the absolute opposite of what I say I want to see...but then I'm inclined towards paranoia and pessimism).  

 

But, Austin shouldn't be walking out on the show, and he shouldn't be refusing to job to Brock Lesnar or even to Steve "Brooklyn Brawler" Lombardi.  Because refusing to give people the rub and doing the same tired old act over and over again IS THE PROBLEM he's so upset about.  Triple H does the same tired old act.  Undertaker does the same tired old act.  Hogan does the same tired old act (though its still kinda fun, in a Mystery Science Theater 3000 "how bad can he get?" sort of way).  Nash does the same tired old act.  HBK does the same tired old act off camera, even when his on camera act is a welcome breath of fresh air.  Austin, too, does the same tired old act.  Standard WWE writing tends to pigeonhole people into doing the same tired old act [when was the last time Kurt Angle mentioned the three I's, or Jericho cut a fresh 5 star promo like the ones that made him The Internet's Darling when he broke out in 1998 WCW?].

 

After all, where would Austin be if Jake Roberts hadn't been there to be the superficial bible thumping tackle dummy / shadow of his former self that Austin humiliated and destroyed, leading to this immortal line:

 

"You talk about your bible, and your John 3:16...well Austin 3:16 says I just whipped your ass!"

 

Or if Bret Hart hadn't been there to be the frustrated old babyface turned crybaby that Austin was able to turn face at the expense of?

 

Or if Bret Hart again hadn't been there to be screwed over publically by Vince McMahon to be the fodder for Vince's on camera evil owner character (see kiddies, a long time ago this was a fresh and new and revolutionary idea that turned wrestling upside down.  Hard to believe I know, but that's how it was way back then)?

 

Or if HBK hadn't finally been made to "lay down for anybody" when HE was broken down by spinal injuries [hmm, spinal injuries, who else that we're talking about has one of those?]

 

Now, if Austin is concerned about giving some guy the rub only to have HHH, HBK, or UT squash the guy the next week and polish the rub right off of them, I can understand why he'd hesitate to give the genuine rub (after all, if they're not going to either, and in fact are just going to undo it, why bother?  I should just take care of myself then).  But still, somebody's got to do it, because he is right about one thing:

 

The Writing Sucks.

 

And that's the bottom line, but not just because Stone Cold Said So.  It also happens to be true.

[Guest Brian]

And Undertaker's also never been a viable draw and further past his prime in the ring than Austin. It seemed Austin was willing to work with Eddie, and consequently Benoit, but what was the point of hotshotting a Brock win for nothing, once again. Whereas part of why they are doing it is because Undertaker's charcter is failing (especially with promos like last night), well not failing but not really going anywhere.

 

 

Sunrise doesn't last all morning,

a cloudburst doesn't last all day.

Seems my love is up

and has left you with no warning.

But it's not always going

to be this grey.

[Guest bob_barron]

Brian- how do we know Eddy and Benoit weren't supposed to cost Austin the match.

 

And where does this leave those two guys anyway. He requests a programme with eddy and then walks out in the middle of it?

 

Fuck him.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

What happened to dreamer? What happened to orton?  What happened to the hardyz the first time they 'messed with the deadman'?  Hey, where is maven?  RVD sure benefited from Taker too.

 

Brock over Austin doesn't make sense.  It would bring Austin down more than it would bring Brock up.  It is that simple.  Going from Bubba to Austin doesn't make sense.  MUST I USE THE CHEWBACCA DEFENCE!

[Guest Brian]

Once again, if austin's supposed to be putting over Brock but Eddie and Benoit interfere, who does that help out? Has Brock actually accomplished anything having people interfering in his matches?

 

And he didn't walk out on the program.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

What we "know"..

 

I think the product is better NOW than it was a few months ago. At least we get flashes of brilliance (RVD, Eddy, Booker, etc..) instead of the all HHH/Austin/Taker/(insert random name) show. Does the fact that someone drew in the past mean they should always be in the main event? In that case, the Hogan bashing better stop, because that man drew for years. Constantly. I think main eventers should be put DOWN out of the main event every once in a while. Being at the top constantly inflates a person's ego. That much is apparent. They SHOULD have to work with midcarders sometime, and not just the 'chosen few'. Screw egos, screw position on the card. Do we really know what goes on backstage? No. However, it's apparent the WWF dosen't know when to STOP things.

 

The McMahon Helmseley faction. The Dudley Boyz and Tables. The Hardys and Ladders. Austin against Authority. The Evil Owner concept. Crash TV.

 

Face it. Austin's character is no longer the exception. THAT is what made him interesting. THAT is what caused him to be a draw. He may have made the character, but it's his boss, Vince McMahon, that has to be thanked just as much as Steve does for the character's sucess. If not for McMahon, there would have been several stunning feuds with the NOD, and DX. Yeah, that makes money. Yet everybody acts like Austin did it on his own. Once Austin got moving, he got the Triple H treatment. Crammed down people's throats for long periods of time every weak. He beat up and stunnered countless people on the roster. Yeah, he had the charisma. He had the ability (though I never did see him as very outstanding in the ring. Just at times). But it took a lot of effort to make him what he is today.

 

Yet he's shown very little initiave to change his character. Oh, the "heel turn" last summer worked like a charm. Really, it did. What does he have to offer NOW as a face? Oh, he gives the lemmings a chance to say "What?" every twenty seconds. He sells t-shirts. But a proven draw? If that's true, then why did the last few shows, focusing Austin prominently, not do very well? CAN he change his character to make it fresh? I don't think so. He's not the exception anymore. He's average. Everybody else does pretty much what they want, too. When you take the "edge" off Austin's character, what does he have left? Declining ring-work, growing political games, and by the numbers promos. (What?)

 

At least Rock shows a will to work with people (Hell, pretty much everyone),and it was -him- that tried his hardest to elevate Chris Jericho. When they tell him to lose, he does. When they tell him to work with someone, he does. And he's still very, very popular. I'd go as far as to say he's the most popular person in the company.

 

Complaining about the company is one thing. If he's so eager to complain, then why hasn't he tried HELPING any? If he's such a creative wizard, why isn't he submitting storylines? It's easy to complain, but when it comes to solutions..heh. If he's so worried about the product, then shouldn't he be out there trying to make it better? Some people are, that much if obvious. Who really -cares- about the company, the person that goes out and works, or the one that whines and runs off?

 

 

Austin, at his level, should be a PROFESSIONAL. Not a whining bitch.

 

-Shiro

[Guest bob_barron]

Even if it everyone came out looking stupid Austin still shouldnt walk out on the day of the show. Thats just unprofessional bullshit and he's just dragging himself down to the level of the people he depises.

 

And again- Vince pays Austin's salary so Austin should do what Vince says.

[Guest Brian]

I don't care much for ratings as neither is very indicative of a person's actual drawing ability, which can be measured in dollars, but if someone wants to bring the Meltzer fact sheet it says that Austin was their biggest draw.

 

I think that at the least Austin deserved the WrestleMania main event after what he did that year. Didn't he put over Kurt Angle and RVD during his heel turn? RVD got a big rub out of being associated with Austin, and even Tazz did until they booked him against Austin in thirty second match.

 

The reason they did that with Austin is because Austin was drawing so well? And they had to protect him in fear of losing that. What was it, two shirts a minute?

 

Once again, based on points that you've made earlier plus the fact that Austin draws, how much initiative does the booking team have to change his character? Do they want to take the chance after the heel turn got off to such a slow start? Is it worth it? And this is partly the booking team were talking about, and once again at the head of all things, Vince.

 

Rock elevated Jericho. Look where the heat with HHH got that. And now there's Nash, HBK, and Hogan also who could pull the same power play. It's a fucked up game, politics.

 

 

 

I've been walking forty miles of bad road

If the bible is right, the world will explode

I've been trying to get as far away from myself as I can

Some things are too hot to touch

The human mind can only stand so much

You can't win with a losing hand

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

I wouldn't say it's "just" the Kliq that plays politics. They've just been more public about it. Apparently, the only one who dosen't is Rocky..and that's because he's invulnerable. It IS sad, when these people don't want to lose the tiniest bit of their spotlight. I'm all for clearing out the main event glut right now.

 

-Shiro

 

(edit) I think RVD got over more by being that thing that Austin used to be..y'know..innovative.

[Guest Anglesault]

I hope ever fucking big name walks out, and Vince is just left with his bitch of a daughter and the Clique

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

We agree on many of the same levels.

 

Austin and Taker and Hogan out, Benoit and Jericho and Austin in.  Agreed. 100%  HOWEVER, it has to be worked a certain way.  If Austin starts jobbing now, what will a win over him mean a year from now?  As long as Austins name value is high whoever finally beats him will become a star because of it.  Hell, listen to his 'desire' video, "When the day comes where it takes too long to get knocked down, and takes too long to get up again, is the day I hang up my boots and let someone else take my place" (Paraphrased, but that's pretty much well it).  Look at what jobbing Hogan has done, NOTHING.  Look at what 'elevating' the hardyz did back last year did.  That 'chosen few' is actually a good plan and the Wwf has done it in the past (see Benoit, Jericho, Angle) but have been too afraid to pull the trigger and have them stay in the ME.

 

The product was better w/ TLC III, and Benoit/Austin, and Benoit/Angle cage match.  But when that month or so was over what happened then?  Oh, it sucked ass.  The Wwf sees that they need a boost so they give the fans some really good free-tv matches.  Sound sorta familiar?  The fact that someone drew, BIG, and still draws and whos name still has worth means they should get SOME respect when it comes with storylines and focus and direction.  Austin, evidently, is getting none of that.

 

Has it ever occurred to you that maybe, JUST MAYBE, Austin wanted a character change and character direction but the writing staff figured 'hey, fans like the good ole Stone Cold'? and didn't do anything about it and that is what made Austin leave?  You don't actually think that the Wwf planned on making the anti-hero in Austin way back in ole 96?  Because it was that character, that badass, that brought the fans in;  Which I believe was the creation of Steve Williams... Sure Mcmahon put the machine behind Austin once he got popular... ONCE HE GOT POPULAR.  

 

Austin creates character -> Fans embrace character ->Mcmahon realizes that fans want Austin -> Mcmahon pushes Austin through the roof.  

 

The period of time between WM 17 and KOTR where Austin was a heel was fantastic.  I contend that it was the wrong time to push a heel Austin, which I doubt was 100% his idea, and that is why the fans didn't boo him (because they didn't want to - afterall, they turned him in texas...the dumbasses).  His promos were fantastic during that timeframe. Really some of the best mic work done in a while by any one.  He used to pick on individual members in the audience, very flair-esque, and his delivery was top-notch and he seemed to really welcome that change in pace.  

 

Fans don't have the same love for Rock as they do for Austin though.  Austin has more of a connection with them, rather than being the 'entertainer' that the rock is, Austin is a representitive, he is one of them.  Where the rock is the peoples champ, Austin is the people.  Where is Chris Jericho now?  Ya huh...mmm hmm... Yeah... No.  He is workin matches with Faarooq and might be lucky if he can main event Velocity next month.  I like the rock and admire his selflessness, but I can't think of a single person whom the rock has *made*.

 

HOW DO YOU KNOW HE HASN'T BEEN TRYING TO HELP FOR THE PAST FEW MONTHS! Sheesh.  Maybe he *is* offering suggestions and they are being ignored.  Maybe THAT is why he took off.  Who really -cares- about the company, the guy willing to watch the ship sink, or the one who takes charge and does something about it?  Hey, what happened to wcw again when no one took charge?  Oh yeah... glug.

 

The Wwf, at this level, should be PROFESSIONAL, not a chicken with its head cut off.

[Guest Brian]

Meltzer:

 

"This has been quite the morning for rumors. Obviously we'll have a very detailed story of everything that's going on in this week's issue. In a nutshell, as everyone knows, Steve Austin walked out. I know this is wrestling and everyone thinks even the stuff that is true is some sort of an angle, but I'm pretty convinced this is legit. Nobody knows Austin's future. It's hard going from the king and biggest revenue draw in the business to being on top when business is tanking. It's hard for Vince. It destroyed Eric Bischoff (nothing to any stories that he's coming in, by the way, although at this point nothing is impossible) until he got out of the pressure cooker. That is not a defense for Austin. Austin shouldn't have handled it in the manner which he did, walking out on a live TV shoot. . I'm not sure giving away the "ultimate stipulation" match on free TV with a two hour build-up instead of on PPV with a three to six month build-up was the right way either. Even if the show does a big rating increase, it doesn't mean anymore than the big ratings increase the Hogan-Goldberg match on Nitro did when they gave away a big money PPV match for free. I think it was pretty much insane to go on and tell you fans that your product has been terrible and Raw is going to hell. Bischoff ironically did the same thing when he went from the top to struggling in the same way, and this stuff never works. For those who have asked about the ticketmaster deal for Lakeland, FL which lists a house show as World Championship Wrestling, that was just a ticketmaster mistake and it's nothing to do with an upcoming storyline."

[Guest]

I hope every fucking big name walks out, and Vince is just left with his bitch of a daughter and the Clique

That will kill the WWE.  

 

I aslo corrected a speeling mistake you made.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

I agree the ME should be cleared out. Angle and Benoit are the easiest (aside from RVD) to elevate. Jericho needs re-elevated, that much is obvious. He's a joke right now. Easiest way would be to get Hogan to go bye-bye, then the 'taker. If Austin DOES go, it should be at Wrestlemania. That way, it'd have the most impact, and mean more.

 

One way to save the company is to stop hot-shotting the title. Put it on ONE man, who can work every night, and let him defend it forever. Even 'til next year's WM. Somebody popular, and preferably a face. A heel title reign right now would just damage it.

 

I'm biased, but I think Van Dam would work perfect as champ. Especially with a heel Benoit chasing..(or even Eddy)

 

-Shiro

 

*edit* Jericho was doing pretty well 'til his push got cut off at the knees.

[Guest Brian]

I also think that everything is aligning for an RVD title reign, especially if they're thinking of putting the King of the Ring title on him and than having eddie (claiming he was screwed) win the IC title, all of this pushing to Undertaker vs. RVD at Vengeance and with Benoit chasing RVD afterwards (and Eddie facing Austin). Or how will Benoit and Eddie get involved with Flair. Man, they could push some really cool things.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Like hotshotting the title, there is such a thing as hotshotting a wrestler (see Hogan right now). I figure Austin has 2 loses in which people can really benefit from.  One being a general loss, the second being a retirement loss.  This should go to a guy like Edge, RVD, Eddy, Booker.  Benoit/Jericho/Angle are on the edge of breaking through so that first win should go to them.

 

Jericho and Angle...the Wwf is pissing me off each and every time they misuse them (which is every show)

[Guest Anglesault]

I agree the ME should be cleared out. Angle and Benoit are the easiest (aside from RVD) to elevate. Jericho needs re-elevated, that much is obvious.

If Austin and Rocky are leaving, there will be NO ONE to stop the Clique. Angle, Benoit and Jericho are better off leaving as well. Brace yourself for world champ X-Pac

[Guest Brian]

At least HHH will job cleanly for someone.

[Guest]

If Austin and Rocky are leaving, there will be NO ONE to stop the Clique. Angle, Benoit and Jericho are better off leaving as well. Brace yourself for world champ X-Pac

But first, X-Pac will dethrone Mabel as the best King of the Ring.

[Guest Brian]

X-Pac vs. Mabel - SummerSlam 2002 - Unified Championship

[Guest]

The REAL question, folks, is how long do you think it will take all those MOTHER FUCKERS to stop saying "What?" and ruining Angle's and everyone else's promos?

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

I despise the (What?) thing. Then again, I'm not a Sportz Entertainment fan, I'm a wrestling fan. I think it's been dying down, compared to what it used to be.

[Guest]

X-Pac vs. Mabel - SummerSlam 2002 - Unified Championship

Yes, Mabel will return and make a nostalgic run.  At the Summerslam Main Event, he will pass the torch to X-Pac.

[Guest Human Fly]

Austin shouldn't have been booked to lose to Lesnar cleanly yet. I also think that Austin running out was the wrong thing to do. I believe that he could've gotten the match changed with his stroke instead of walking out. If Austin was stuck facing Brock and launching the Super push then he should've gotten beat down by Benoit, Guererro, Flair, and AA. Then Brock should've given him the Shooting Star Press. Storyline wise it didn't make much sense either, Austin in a KOTR qualifying match is idiotic. But, I still feel that walking out was wrong. There are other ways he could've handled it.

 

I'm wondering how Vince is taking this though. Will we now get wrestlers doing what they want under the threat that they'll walk out? Or will Vince start running an iron clad ship where it's his absolute rule?

[Guest Vyce]

Oh, so if you get beaten down for no reason you do it?  If you know that nothing good will come of it, and you see the company spiraling down the toilet you do nothing about it, right?  Cause lord knows you have no investment in the success of the company.

 

Apparently, according to the logic of some of the people here in this thread, if your boss / company completely shits on you, you're supposed to sit there and take it, and never complain, because they're signing your paycheck.

 

Screw that.

 

I'm with you, Rudo.  I don't even care if what Austin is doing is for selfish reasons; he's making a stand that needs to be made.  At least he has the balls to do it.  SOMEONE has to do it.

 

What I find incredibly funny is that when Austin portrayed the "working class redneck fighting against an evil, oppressive boss" character, everyone loved him, cheered him, made him and the WWF millions.

 

Now he's actually become that character, and everyone's turning on him.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

Playing a character is one thing. Becoming that is another.

 

-Shiro

[Guest bob_barron]

Apparently, according to the logic of some of the people here in this thread, if your boss / company completely shits on you, you're supposed to sit there and take it, and never complain, because they're signing your paycheck.

There's a difference between complaining and walking out the day of a show you were gonna be heavily featured on.

 

And its pretty much nonsense speculating on the Brock thing since no one knows what the plan was.

[Guest]

When Austin no-showed just after WrestleMania I was against his decision, and I expressed my feelings about the situation.

But after reading about what HBK said, maybe Austin's actions were not about his role in the show, more about who was backstage.

If that is the case then I agree whith Austin.

The company sucks, let it rot.

Good point Caboose...let's all remember, that Austin has been through the kliq's BS before, maybe he figured that it's just not worth it to stick around. While I totally agree with the pushing of fresh talent, how much of that Eddie/Austin feud did we get to see? One night, three non wrestling segments and bad Kareoke! The way I sees it is this: Austin asks for a program with Eddie, the bookers give him a taste of it to placate Austin, then it's more of the same the next three weeks: Austin vs. Evil Owner! Then, they want him to job to Brock, who I'm sorry, but he still sucks! Maybe given a couple of years in the midcard he'll be ready to ME, but not right now...he is just too fuckin' green. All this on top of Michaels shooting on him and the Rock, and the Kliq being back together, I'd be leaving too. So while not being very professional, at least Austin is remaining true to himself and his character by saying once and for all: FUCK YOU, VINCE!!!

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

Hell yeah. He should be angry that Michaels is back in the company. Yup. He's STEALING Stone Cold's spotlight! Can't have that now, can we? Uh oh, another broken-down wrestler. I bet he feels his spot is in jeopardy, since Michaels has had four years to practice being broken down, and Austin is new at it. The Kliq is gonna get X-pac named Undisupted Champion, just to screw over Stone Cold. Everybody screws over Stone Cold. Did you know that the Kliq overthrew Satan as lord of evil? I'm sure it's on the internet somewhere. After all, everything on the internet is true. I find it strange that all this is the Kliq's fault, even though Austin was whining before they got back together..but I'm sure it is. They can't be anything BUT wrong. Screwing over hard working, never complaining wrestlers like Stone Cold. What do they think this is, WCW?

 

Now, back to being serious..

 

-Shiro

[Guest chirs3]

I'm about 4 pages late, but I'll post my thoughts on this, I guess.

 

There is no clear cut good guy and bad guy in this situation. I think Brock going over Austin with absolutely no buildup would be a little wrong. But I also think Austin walking out, forcing the entire show to be rewritten, was a truly stupid move.

 

Vince needs to fire him. Make an example of him for the other wrestlers. The writers write the show. If you don't like it, tough. Jericho has been treated like shit since well before Wrestlemania. He was fueding over DOG CRAP. He's fueded over coffee and Stephanie McMahon. He hasn't walked out.

 

I like Austin as much as the next guy, but he's not doing much for the product today. I can't remember the last time he did a decent Thesz press, or decent any move for that matter. He's deteriorating in terms of ring skills and mic skills.

 

Ideally? I say build up his retirement angle sometime soon. Give 'em a good sendoff then turn Raw upside down and inside out, complete overhaul of direction.

 

But I don't know if Austin would like his next conversation with McMahon to go "You're retiring in two months, we're starting the angle next Monday". He'd probably walk out again.

 

Fire him.