Guest Jobber of the Week Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 If Austin and Rocky are leaving, there will be NO ONE to stop the Clique. Angle, Benoit and Jericho are better off leaving as well. Brace yourself for world champ X-Pac First of all, you act like Vince McMahon is a chickenshit who will do anything suggested to him by the wrestlers. What does Rocky do? He's never involved in politics and has jobbed to many guys who probably don't deserve it. The only guys I see that can stop the politicing is Undertaker and Hogan (simply because if the Clique become too over it'll ruin his big last moment of star power.) Of course, hopefully Vince has his head screwed on straight. Speaking of guys who ought to be getting respect backstage, I never hear anything about how the wrestlers react to Flair.
Guest Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 Is-it-possible-to-send-The-Undertaker-off-to-Planet-Stasiak?
Guest alfdogg Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 First of all, you act like Vince McMahon is a chickenshit who will do anything suggested to him by the wrestlers. He is.
Guest Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 Flair is pretty much regarded as a god in the locker room, but doesn't really say much about his character or anything as far as I know.
Guest Jobber of the Week Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 He is. They started kicking wrestlers out of booking meetings like 6 weeks ago.
Guest Ash Ketchum Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 Exactly. If the Attitude era wasn't dead already... it sure as hell is now. Bring on WWE Desire. [/sarcasm]
Guest El Satanico Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 Well hopefully this is the first step in the master plan. Flair, Austin and Heyman are secretly plotting to screw Vince from within. Something like that is too good to be true, but i can still hope that it happens. They will convince all the young future stars to walk out on WWF. Then those 3 will either start a new fed or join with Jarret's fed. Then since Vince would be left with old fucks and midcard jobbers to compete WWF would get ran out of business. The next guys to walk out Jericho RVD Booker Angle
Guest RavishingRickRudo Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 I can easily see Jericho taking off with Austin in a very Jerry McGuire-esque way Austin: Ok ok ok, I am not going to do what you all think I am going to do and FLIP OUT Ok! All I want to know is.... who's comin with me? What? I said who is comin with me!? *Jericho gets up* Jericho: I will! Austin: YES! YES! JERICHO! Jericho! It's you and me Jericho! AAAAAND scene. The fact that Mcmahon hired the NWO, brought back HBK, didn't fire Hall off the bat, is letting the clique get away with tiny stuff like not workin Heat is a sign of his weakness.
Guest Jobber of the Week Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 The next guys to walk out Jericho RVD Booker Angle I'd hope not. Losing those guys would get me pissed, especially since there's nowhere for them to go right now. RVD and Booker are prime to get the best run of their careers. It'd be foolish for them to go right now thankfully. Angle is one of the best and they need to do everything to hold onto him. I'm not sure what they plan to do with Jericho since his contract is almost up and they have never any ideas what to do with him outside of programs with HHH.
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 I don't think RVD would go anyway. Despite how badly his legions of fans want him to be elavated...he doesn't care about it. At least he didn't in ECW...so I doubt becoming Undisputed Champion is his #1 priority. In fact...the only thing I've heard that RVD has complained about his not getting enough time to wrestle his matches. Not being buried...not being falsley elavated 3 times...not jobbing clean when told... Simply not having enough time to entertain. Screw Austin (one of my all time favorites). RVD is the kind of guy that I support from this point forward. RVD RVD RVD
Guest The Mighty Damaramu Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 Ok everyone talks about hypocrisy. Well I'm sure that if Hogan did this we'd jump down his throat. But everyone that is against Austin would probably turn around and defend Hogan. It's the way this stuff on the board always work.
Guest El Satanico Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 The next guys to walk out Jericho RVD Booker Angle I'd hope not. Losing those guys would get me pissed, especially since there's nowhere for them to go right now. RVD and Booker are prime to get the best run of their careers. It'd be foolish for them to go right now thankfully. Angle is one of the best and they need to do everything to hold onto him. I'm not sure what they plan to do with Jericho since his contract is almost up and they have never any ideas what to do with him outside of programs with HHH. Well since the point of my post was Flair, Austin and Heyman leading a exodus from WWeee and then either starting own fed or joining Jarret's fed those four guys would have some place to go. And i doubt many of us will shed a tear if Vince got fucked over like that.
Guest cabbageboy Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 I'm not real sympathetic towards Austin here either. If he had balked about jobbing to X Pac I would applaud it. But even as goofy as wasting a potential PPV match with Austin/Lesnar on TV is, if he was booked to job he should have. Lesnar is a guy that they are going to push big time and a win over Austin would help him big time. Besides Austin's career died at WM 17 to me when he shook Vince's hand anyway. Since then he has been a parody of himself in my book, deginerating into nothing but a forum for "what" chants. And yeah, RVD has never been the kind of guy who gives a shit about winning the world title or main eventing. While pussies like X Pac are whining about wrestling on both Heat and Raw in one night, RVD does it and only wants MORE time to wrestle.
Guest bcu1979 Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 He is. They started kicking wrestlers out of booking meetings like 6 weeks ago. Only because it was starting to create heat on Triple H. Word was getting out about how Triple H would bury certain wrestlers during production meetings and I guess Vince/Triple H believed one of the wrestlers attending the meetings was the one leaking the info. Besides, Vince let the Kliq run the show in the mid-90's. And none of them were dating his daughter back then. Why should we expect any difference this time? Shawn Michaels has been back two weeks and he's already allowed to take potshots at Rock. Mainstream movie star v. broken down head case Who do you think the company should be more interested in keeping happy?
Guest alfdogg Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 Ok everyone talks about hypocrisy. Well I'm sure that if Hogan did this we'd jump down his throat. But everyone that is against Austin would probably turn around and defend Hogan. It's the way this stuff on the board always work. Preach it, MD.
Guest caboose Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 Fans don't have the same love for Rock as they do for Austin though. Austin has more of a connection with them, rather than being the 'entertainer' that the rock is, Austin is a representitive, he is one of them. Where the rock is the peoples champ, Austin is the people. Where is Chris Jericho now? Ya huh...mmm hmm... Yeah... No. He is workin matches with Faarooq and might be lucky if he can main event Velocity next month. I like the rock and admire his selflessness, but I can't think of a single person whom the rock has *made*. I would agree that fans have a differnet love for Austin. But I would argue that the fans love for Rocky is better than the love of Austin. When Austin turned heel, the fans didn't go along with it and basically it made heel Austin look stupid. He was damn entertaining but the fans didn't belive him as Heel. Is this cos they love Austin more or cos Austin was not able to play Heel affectively? You be the judge. If anything Austin was ripping off other Heel characters such as Flair which you yourself said. Rocky however has his own way of being over. He has a more Flair like Over-ness. If Rocky is Heel, the fans boo him cos he acts like a complete Jackass. And if Rocky plays Face, the fans love him. Rocky could switch in and out of the two roles every week if he had to. But like Flair, Rocky would stay over. And as for who did Rocky make? Well unless I'm mistaken, everyone agrees that Rocky helped make Jericho a beliveable ME star. Rocky put Triple H over dozens of times to help make Triple H appear a threat(I do admit though that Foley ultimately made Triple H huge). Before the second Rocky/Angle feud in early 2001, Angle was the goofy Heel. In that feud Rocky help place the foundations of Kurt Angle's badass Ankle-snapping persona. It's not Rocky's fault that Triple H has undone most of his work. It's not Rocky's fault that when Triple H was being pushed to the moon, the fans fell in love with The Rock. It's not Rocky's fault Austin has past his sell-by-date.
Guest RavishingRickRudo Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 Oh Austin was a fantastic heel, but he was fighting an uphill battle in that one. The fans didn't want to boo Austin, it is as simple as that. The Wwf turned him at the wrong time, didn't build it up enough. They tried everything, from cheap heat, to bad singing, to what, what, what, to beatin up the hardyz, to beatin up JR, to beatin up cole and the fans still wouldn't boo. But who DOESN'T rip off flair? Austin, IMO, is top five mic men of all time, no doubt. I disagree. I say that the fans are detatched to rocky. He is not one of them, he is the peoples champ; not the people. He is their entertainer, their jester, nothing more. That is not a strong connection, which is why they find it so easy to boo and cheer him. Jericho is a believable what now? That was more of a symbiotic relationship, rather than one man putting over another. HHH and the Rock played off each other, and by doing so go each other over. And then he went back to kissing sweaty testicle gold medals.. Yeah, but when you "Make" someone usually they stay made. If all it takes is one crappy feud to put them back to where they were they they weren't 'made' very well. I give much love to the rock, he is wrestlings greatest representative and not that bad in the ring either. He is pretty much well the only selfless ME in the Wwf...or at least was...
Guest Shadow Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 Austin was a dick, yes, but this is just what the WWE needed- a shot in the ass to start pushing new guys. Yes, they're going with Flair-Vince for now, but the rumours going around is that this will lead to a face turn for Benoit & Guerreo, and it will be Flair leading his group of Benoit, Guerreo, and Booker T against Vince leading the nWo (with Brock Lesnar as well). Now, is that not a better feud, with possiable better matches (Benoit & Guerreo can carry anyone to a good match, X-Pac is about 100x better in the ring than anyone around here gives him credit for, and Brock is a great wrestler as well) than watching an unmotivated Austin stink up RAW and piss on Double A? This is just like what happened with Bret and HBK- main eventers being forced out of the top- and we will get the same result- new guys being pushed to the top on RAW. As for the person who commented about wanting HHH and Taker to leave- HHH is dating Stephanie, don't count on it (not that I want him to go, of course). Taker, I can see retiring at next year's Wrestlemania. Hogan (who I can't stand) will hopefully retire at Survivor Series (since it's in MSG) or maybe Wrestlemania as well.
Guest RavishingRickRudo Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 Haven't people been saying "Taker will retire at WM" for like...forever...Does it ever happen? Lets face it, the deadman will never die...and that is the saddest irony of them all.
Guest converge241 Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 It will be interesting when Jericho's contract comes up to see if he has any "unrest" with creative and how the re-negotiation goes down.
Guest caboose Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 Oh Austin was a fantastic heel, but he was fighting an uphill battle in that one. The fans didn't want to boo Austin, it is as simple as that. The Wwf turned him at the wrong time, didn't build it up enough. They tried everything, from cheap heat, to bad singing, to what, what, what, to beatin up the hardyz, to beatin up JR, to beatin up cole and the fans still wouldn't boo. But who DOESN'T rip off flair? Austin, IMO, is top five mic men of all time, no doubt. I disagree. I say that the fans are detatched to rocky. He is not one of them, he is the peoples champ; not the people. He is their entertainer, their jester, nothing more. That is not a strong connection, which is why they find it so easy to boo and cheer him. Jericho is a believable what now? That was more of a symbiotic relationship, rather than one man putting over another. HHH and the Rock played off each other, and by doing so go each other over. And then he went back to kissing sweaty testicle gold medals.. Yeah, but when you "Make" someone usually they stay made. If all it takes is one crappy feud to put them back to where they were they they weren't 'made' very well. I give much love to the rock, he is wrestlings greatest representative and not that bad in the ring either. He is pretty much well the only selfless ME in the Wwf...or at least was... Austin goading the crowd, was 'Flair Heel Mic Work 101', he even stepped up his use of the thumb and raking of eyes. I'm enclined to disagree with you about the fans being detached from Rocky but then we have differiung opinions so there it is. Often Rocky plays the underdog in feuds, and the fans liked him even more for this. Thats why Triple H can't get over now. He's not playing the underdog, he plays the Game so fans expect him to win. With Rocky, the fans knew it was touch and go so he was more exciting to watch. I don't kiss Angle's ass as much as others, but if you look at the year after Angle/Rocky 2, Angle was still very over in his feud with Benoit and then Austin. The two week title run, the return to goofy heel when he joined the Alliance, and feud with Triple H, all subsequently took away the Badass image that Angle had developed, and finally this feud with Edge which brings us to goofy bald Angle. Talk about reverse character development. As for Jericho, as soon as Rocky had put him over, he was for some reason made to look weak straight away at Vengence, and then Rocky once again helped him at the Rumble. But then Austin half-heartedly feuded with him, Steph made him her Bitch, Triple H squashed him, no match at Backlash, and then squashed again at JD by Triple H. Rocky gave Jericho a chance and everyone else buried him. With Triple H, Rocky jobbed to Triple H far more than Triple H lost to Rocky and this should therefore indicate that Rocky was helping elevate Triple H. But Rocky was the one that got over huge, and the rest is history.
Guest RavishingRickRudo Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 And the fact that he did it well should be a plus, not a minus. Considering Flair wrote the book on Dirty Heel tricks it is hard to find anyone who is totally an original heel. But everyone and their mother is an underdog in the WWf. That's the way it's been for the longest time. Uphill climbs, the chase, etc. Austin has a connection BEYOND the underdog, he is the workin mans hero and that makes being the underdog all that more important to the fans. Over, but not taken seriously, which was your point right? That Angle was pushed/made as a serious wrestler in his feud vs. the Rock. So the Rock didn't "make" Jericho all that well if his character couldn't hold up to an ounce of pressure, glad we agree. Again, it was a symbiotic relationship. The played off each other. The more face heat the Rock got, the more heel heat HHH got. But like you said, it wasn't enough and HHH had to retire Foley in order to really be taken seriously.
Guest Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 I can easily see Jericho taking off with Austin in a very Jerry McGuire-esque way Austin: Ok ok ok, I am not going to do what you all think I am going to do and FLIP OUT Ok! All I want to know is.... who's comin with me? What? I said who is comin with me!? *Jericho gets up* Jericho: I will! Austin: YES! YES! JERICHO! Jericho! It's you and me Jericho! AAAAAND scene. The fact that Mcmahon hired the NWO, brought back HBK, didn't fire Hall off the bat, is letting the clique get away with tiny stuff like not workin Heat is a sign of his weakness. Or he could do the Half Baked version: Austin: Ok, Ok, Ok, I am not going to do What? I said I'm not going to do what you all think I am going to do and FLIP OUT Ok! All I want to know is.... who's comin with me? What? I said who is comin with me!? *Jericho stands up * Jericho: I'm with ya Steve-o! Austin: yes It's you and me Jericho, you and me! Jericho: Alright! Austin: Hey Chris...You wanna be my girlfriend? What? I said do you wanna be my girlfriend? Jericho: Steve...I'm a lesbian... Austin: Oh....what's that like? *Scene* Or Austin can be like another scene from half Baked *In locker room area, before Raw. All wrestlers are gathered around. Vince is tehre too* Austin: Okay, that's it Fuck You, Fuck You, What? I said Fuck you jackass, Fuck You, Fuck You, Your Cool *Points to Jericho* I'm out! What? I said I'm out, jackass. * Scene* I think I just lost all cred I ever had..eh whatever, Half Baked Rules The School baby!
Guest humongous2002 Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 The first time Austin walked out of the WWF, I was 100% behind him, now I'm realizing that he is a selfish cry baby, he doesn't give two shits about the other wrestlers he only cares about his #1 spot and that's it. The WWF/E product has been crap since last year, specially right after Wrestlemania x7 , turning Austin hell sucked, the WCW/ECW invasion sucked even worse and Y2J's title reign was sabotaged by the Lame HGH. The fact of the matter is that giving Austin the #1 spot might work for a while, but the WWF/E is well known for creating main eventers all the time. Austin's run was great while it lasted but right now the WWE needs a brand new #1 man to take the wrestling business to a whole new era, Austin should realized that the fans love him but they don't want to see him again going for the title or being the center of attention. His job now it's to elevate younger guys(passing the torch) even though he has carried the WWE/F for years it's time for him to either just retire or start giving the rub to the future of the WWE. He should know better not to trust Vince or has he forgotten about Bret?The only reason Vince cares more about the clique than Austin is because the Clique are real drinking friends with him while Austin was only friends with him when he was making Vince rich. Austin made a bad call for just walking out from WWE because it seems that Vince is already burying him as we speak and if he ever comes back Vince will make him pay for leaving him when he needed him the most.
Guest caboose Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 But everyone and their mother is an underdog in the WWf. That's the way it's been for the longest time. Uphill climbs, the chase, etc. Austin has a connection BEYOND the underdog, he is the workin mans hero and that makes being the underdog all that more important to the fans. Over, but not taken seriously, which was your point right? That Angle was pushed/made as a serious wrestler in his feud vs. the Rock. So the Rock didn't "make" Jericho all that well if his character couldn't hold up to an ounce of pressure, glad we agree. Again, it was a symbiotic relationship. The played off each other. The more face heat the Rock got, the more heel heat HHH got. But like you said, it wasn't enough and HHH had to retire Foley in order to really be taken seriously. In 1999, in the final chase upto WMXV, Austin certainly didn't play the Underdog. Against the nWo, Austin should have been UnderDog, but he was put over the whole nWo. Austin was put over the whole of the Alliance in July of 2001, before he turned. Austin was put over the whole Coroporate Ministry the night of Undertaker/Steph wedding. Rocky did all he could to give Jericho a chance, and when everyone else balked, of course Jericho lost credibility. It took Rocky, Austin, Show and Foley, Rocky again at WM to make Triple H. Flair gave Sting the ball in WCW, but there was no one else for Sting to feud with and Sting lost credibility. Hell it took Bret a over a year, and HBK at WM to make Austin. One man cannot make a star out of someone else.
Guest Austin3164life Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 Me being an Austin-mark will have some kind of affect on any opinion I put out, but just bear with me...... Austin is easily one of the top three wrestlers of all time. I think even if you love him or you despise him, you can't really argue with that. The fact that he's walked out on the company during one big shit period shows that he not only cares about himself and his career being, but he does show compassion for the industry and its progression as well. He even admitted that the writing and booking team is pretty much lackluster right now. Yes, he is obviously looking out for his #1 spot, but if you were (reverently) the top man in the WWF/E for so long would you want to just be involved in last minute feuds? The Attitude era will probably officially end when a rising star goes over Austin for the title (or no title) at a Main Event in Wrestlemania. His walkout probably wont last long, but it might last longer than his post-WM18 walkout. The reason I am siding with Austin in this debacle is because 2002 is looking to be one of the worst wrestling years since 1995. People complain of Austin playing politics. Austin isn't trying to ruin another star, or degrade the industry. He's obviously looking after his career, and also making a statement to Vince and the crew that the WWE needs to get their shit together, and fast. Bret Hart and Mick Foley pretty much had the same gripe with the company. What did Vince do? He forced them out of the company. Everyone on this board doubts Austin's wrestling skill because of his lack of motivation to work this year. Can you blame him?? I still wonder to this day why the HELL the NWO were brought back at all (one of the worst ideas ever). All it did was make Austin look like the nWo's fool and made THe Rock look like Hogan's whipping boy. Austin, being arguably the greatest champion this sport has ever known, has a right to complain and scorn (and even leave) the business, because of the terrible direction it is headed in. Like most poeple say, we will see better days when bright young stars are elevated. The best thing for the WWE to do now is absolutely get rid of Nash, Michaels, and Hogan (possibly a few others), and let the younger talent shine. How fitting would it be for an up and coming RVD chasing Austin's last title reign in the months leading up to next year's WM? The WWE needs to do something of that sort to restore the prominence the company once had. Austin plays a pivotal role in the WWE's success on and off camera, and he realizes that, so he's almost forced to quit because of the shitty direction the WWE is going in, and because Vince is blind to see that the Clique and Hogan have ruined things....... If Austin is forced to quit wrestling for good.....I'm pushing for him and Foley to start a fed.......
Guest caboose Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 The Attitude era will probably officially end when a rising star goes over Austin for the title (or no title) at a Main Event in Wrestlemania. This should have been Rocky. Why didn't this happen?
Guest RavishingRickRudo Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 It shouldn't have been Rocky. It should be either benoit/angle/jericho OR rvd/edge/booker. The Rock is attitude era, or, a transitional player, but not a revolutionary. Hart represented an era, so did HBK, when Austin went over them the new era began. Not to mention the Rock was leaving for Hollywood after WM 17 so the win wouldn't do anything to him at all. Austin vs. Mcmahon, top 5 storyline, maybe top 3, maybe #1 of all time. Austin was the underdog, he was the people. Such is his place in history and the hearts of fans. Each wrestler has his defining moment, HHH retiring Foley was his, Austin not tapping out to Hart was his, Foley off the cage was his, Rock smashing Foleys skull with a chair (hmm, foley again). Rock hasn't gave any of those moments to another.
Guest Brian Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 Rock should have beat Austin at SummerSlam last year.
Guest RavishingRickRudo Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 I think (*think*) the plan was for an Austin/HHH summer feud, and the Rock/Austin rematch at Survivor Series. Put HHH got injured and fucked everything up after that.
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