The Paul Heyman Smackdown shoot on McMahon

[Man Who Sold The World 0]

I believe the timeline was the Smackdown prior to Survivor Series '03, and this was probably the most entertaining Paul Heyman speech/tirade I've seen. He really tore Vince a new asshole, and even though Vince had the "ok" for the interview, I'm fairly certain Heyman threw a couple of digs in Mr. McMahon that he didn't see coming (and you can clearly tell from his facial expression at certain points). Well, I was watching this interview over again and I noticed that some of the things Paul Heyman said, could be said today, on the next RAW in fact and probably garner a huge pop (He was booed during this interview).

 

"You see at Survivor Series, it means so much more than just the personalities that are involved. It's about ending what Vince McMahon has tried to accomplish. I sat there at that desk on Monday and I listened to Mick Foley, and I agreed with everything Mick Foley had to say; that the WWF truly does suck! Don't boo me! Have you watched the television show lately? Vince McMahon has lost his mind! The man doesn't have it anymore! He's a has-been. His ideas are antiquated. His concepts are Draconian and Mick Foley was right because the WWF is imploding from within. Like every great empire, the WWF is imploding from within. Vince's loyal employees, like "Stone Cold", left him, like Mick Foley wants nothing to do with him, Vince's own children want him to burn in Hell, and I don't blame 'em. "

 

That which was bolded mirrors many peoples opinions of Vince McMahon and the WWE right now, a good portion anyway. I think this was fairly ahead of its time and maybe a sign of things to come, but as I was watching this recently, I couldn't help but picture that this same thing may be said, but instead of Smackdown, it will be said on TNA. Here's the complete transcript:

 

"In just a few moments, at my leisure, I'm gonna call Vince McMahon out to his ring in front of his public on a television show that's owned by his grand company. At least, that is, until this Sunday at Survivor Series. I know how much you people appreciate what Shane and Stephanie and I have done. How Shane and Stephanie and I have stood up to the tyranny of Vince McMahon. And the way it is ladies and gentlemen is quite simple: the World Wrestling Federation will die this Sunday. But don't blame me for that. It's not my fault. I'm not the one who ruined everything that was accomplished by "Stone Cold" Steve Austin. You see at Survivor Series, it means so much more than just the personalities that are involved. It's about ending what Vince McMahon has tried to accomplish. I sat there at that desk on Monday and I listened to Mick Foley, and I agreed with everything Mick Foley had to say; that the WWF truly does suck! Don't boo me! Have you watched the television show lately? Vince McMahon has lost his mind! The man doesn't have it anymore! He's a has-been. His ideas are antiquated. His concepts are Draconian and Mick Foley was right because the WWF is imploding from within. Like every great empire, the WWF is imploding from within. Vince's loyal employees, like "Stone Cold", left him, like Mick Foley wants nothing to do with him, Vince's own children want him to burn in Hell, and I don't blame 'em. Vince McMahon will see the WWF die this Sunday at Survivor Series and he has no hope to save his precious company. Vince McMahon has the same chances of saving the WWF as he did of realizing his dream of starting a football league! (Vince's McMahon's music hits and he enters the ring.) I want you to know that I was down on my knees because I know you're used to men kissing your ass, Vinnie. Every time you walk in the back, there's Patterson and Brisco, 'Oh, what a great idea you had, Vince!' You like men kissing your ass, don't you, Vince? Because that's what you're all about; a billionaire! The billionaire, Vince McMahon! The creator of sports entertainment! I've waited so long to see you face to face like this. And I've waited so long to tell you to your face that I hate your stinking guts. And it's not just me, it's your children that hate your stinking guts, Vince, and at Survivor Series, your children are going to do to you what I've waited my whole life to see someone do to you, Vince. You are, so help me God, the most disgusting, vile, son of a bitch I've ever seen in my life. You took Hulk Hogan’s blood and you built Titan Towers. You stole Bret Hart’s dream, and with that money, bought yourself an airplane with WWF all over it. You did that and you know it, you son of a bitch! You stole Shawn Michaels’ smile, took your company public and made yourself a billionaire. But not a self-made billionaire, like you like to tell everybody you are. Oh no…see, you’re a billionaire on other people’s hard work. Your father, your father, Vince McMahon, your father went around the country and shook the hand...you know I'm telling you the truth, don't you? You know in your heart that I'm telling you the truth, that your father shook the hand of every promoter in this country that he'd never compete against them, that his son would never compete against them. And when your father DIED, you competed! And with your ruthless, merciless, take-no-prisoners attitude, you drove everybody out of business, didn't you, Vince? You ran all the competition into the ground and you stole all their ideas and you made yourself a billionaire out of it! And you know whose ideas you stole the most, Vince? You stole mine. See, I don't give a damn about Don Owen and Sam Mushnick and Jim Crockett, I care about what you did to me and my family. How you stole my dreams, how you stole my legacy, how you stole everything that Extreme Championship Wrestling represented. Because while Doink the Clown had green hair and a rubber nose, "Stone Cold" Steve Austin was drinking his first beer in ECW, damn you. While Bobby Heenan and Gene Okerlund were dancing around singing "Tutti Fruitti", ECW was producing the edgy TV that you named "attitude." 'Oh, we've got attitude!' You've got nothing, man! What you've got is my ideas and you stole my life, my money, my legacy! (throws his hat at him) SCREW YOU! SCREW YOU AND YOUR FAMILY! I'll tell you something, your own children hate your guts! And on Sunday, your children are going to get even with you, for everything that you stole from me, from everything you stole from them! You flaunt your affairs in front of your wife! You flaunt your affairs in Playboy for your children to read! You bastard! Look at Tazz! Look at Tazz! This man was a killer, he was a machine! He was a wrestler, a great wrestler, a real man. But wrestling is a dirty word to you, isn't it, Vince? Your father built a wrestling company, and you, you had to have sports entertainment. 'We have to have sports entertainment, ha ha ha!' (Points to Tazz) He was a wrestler, he was a great wrestler, he was a man. And now, he's a fat, little, obnoxious color commentator, and not even a good one! He is a sports entertainer. He is not a wrestler because you made wrestling a dirty word. You made wrestling a dirty word, Vince. What kind of a man are you? What kind of a man takes wrestling and makes it sports entertainment? At Survivor Series, you're going down. You're going down, Vince. I promise you, you're going down, and I'm going to watch it and your children are going to lift their leg, and stand over your grave and we're going to laugh. And you know what else I'm going to do, Vince? I'm going to run your ass out of business. And there's not a damn thing you can do about. I'm feeling good about myself..." (Tazz locks in the Tazzmission and chokes Heyman down) - Paul Heyman; Smackdown '03.

 

 

What do you guys think?

[Just John 0]

The part about WWE imploding from within obviously wasn't true 5 years ago, and still isn't. The part about Vince's ideas being out of touch has been true for a long time.

 

In spite of that, people should realize WWE will be in far more trouble when Vince dies than they were/are/will be at any point during his life.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

Quote:

 

' While Bobby Heenan and Gene Okerlund were dancing around singing "Tutti Fruitti", ECW was producing the edgy TV that you named "attitude." '

 

LIE. Heenan and Okerlund were in WCW by then (1994-94), it wasn't the 80's.

 

' Because while Doink the Clown had green hair and a rubber nose, "Stone Cold" Steve Austin was drinking his first beer in ECW, damn you. '

 

LIE. Doink wasn't in the WWF when ECW, WHO WAS ON THE WWE'S PAYROLL BY THE WAY, had Austin.

 

Stole Bret's dream? Stole Michaels' smile? Used Hogan's blood?

 

(or made them millionaires...)

 

This was just trying to please the smart marks and make them buy the PPV. Lot of crap in there.

 

Basically the whole entire speech is a big "let's rally the internet" piece of shit work because Heyman was a WWE employee when running ECW.

[spman 0]

The thing is though, Vince's idea's aren't even antiquated or Draconian, because that would imply that ideas like Trump vs Rosie ever would have flown in another era in the first place. Vince's ideas at this point are just completely ludicrous, and go well beyond the realm of silly campy bad that you often see in wrestling, even today with characters like Boogeyman, or Finlay's midget. Clearly Vince doesn't even give a shit anymore about fan reaction, or buyrates, or even the financial well being of his company. He's just a bored old man incapable of realizing that he's finally reaching the last stage of life, and is just using his nationally television wrestling program as a platform to entertain himself, and himself alone.

 

The only thing that's going to make Vince stop and look at what he's doing is if the shareholders start holding him accountable. WWE is a publicly traded company, so Vince certainly has people to answer to. So that begs the question, who is it exactly that owns WWE stock? Clearly the McMahon family owns the majority, if not all, of the controlling interest, but what about the rest of the people that own the stock? Are they people that are savvy to the business? If so, why don't they ever try and call McMahon out on his bullshit? I know that people were trying to do that during the quarterly conference calls at one point, and they started either heavily screening calls to prevent any questions not directly related to finances, or they may have possibly stopped taking calls altogether. Ultimately though, I suspect that this won't happen. I think the majority of the people that own WWE stock, who aren't named Mcmahon, are just speculative investors that have little, if any, inside knowledge of the business, and just own the stock on the off chance that we go back in time to 1998 again.

[Man Who Sold The World 0]

Oh yeah, it was definately a layered cake of shit, but one of those layers held some true facts. I believe if you rewatch the interview, Paul Heyman's emotion was real and some of what he was saying he really believed. And about WWE imploding from within, I agree that it is. Future stars are being held down because of politics, and Vince doesn't seem to want to do it anymore. Maybe he knows his time is near. And I do agree that when Vince goes, we should start leavin roses at the foot of Titan Towers.

[spman 0]

Oh yeah, it was definately a layered cake of shit, but one of those layers held some true facts. I believe if you rewatch the interview, Paul Heyman's emotion was real and some of what he was saying he really believed. And about WWE imploding from within, I agree that it is. Future stars are being held down because of politics, and Vince doesn't seem to want to do it anymore. Maybe he knows his time is near. And I do agree that when Vince goes, we should start leavin roses at the foot of Titan Towers.

 

The thing is though, while it may have been true at one point with guys like Edge, Jericho, Booker T, and others being held back, it largely isn't true any more. The problem isn't that people are being held under the glass ceiling in the main event, the problem is that they seem to be completely unable to build up any credible main eventers. Does anyone in all honesty think Batista vs Kennedy at the Rumble is going to be anything more then a slightly more competitive squash? Who else is there? Undertaker? Kane? Booker T? The same rotating stock of Main Event guys we've seen for 5+ years now. RAW isn't much better, although they at least have Randy Orton, who is a fresh face who has been, for the most part, absent from the world title scene since returning from suspension. The same goes though for the RAW title match though, does anyone think that Umaga has any hope in hell of becoming world champion?

[Man Who Sold The World 0]

Oh yeah, it was definately a layered cake of shit, but one of those layers held some true facts. I believe if you rewatch the interview, Paul Heyman's emotion was real and some of what he was saying he really believed. And about WWE imploding from within, I agree that it is. Future stars are being held down because of politics, and Vince doesn't seem to want to do it anymore. Maybe he knows his time is near. And I do agree that when Vince goes, we should start leavin roses at the foot of Titan Towers.

 

The thing is though, while it may have been true at one point with guys like Edge, Jericho, Booker T, and others being held back, it largely isn't true any more. The problem isn't that people are being held under the glass ceiling in the main event, the problem is that they seem to be completely unable to build up any credible main eventers. Does anyone in all honesty think Batista vs Kennedy at the Rumble is going to be anything more then a slightly more competitive squash? Who else is there? Undertaker? Kane? Booker T? The same rotating stock of Main Event guys we've seen for 5+ years now. RAW isn't much better, although they at least have Randy Orton, who is a fresh face who has been, for the most part, absent from the world title scene since returning from suspension. The same goes though for the RAW title match though, does anyone think that Umaga has any hope in hell of becoming world champion?

 

 

There needs to be some sort of rebellion. That's what it will take for wrestling as a whole to shape up and get out of whatever funk it's in. It seems as if WWE and TNA are following each other down a road of confusion. Either they don't care, or fans are so spread apart that they haven't the slightest clue which ones to cater to. And as it's become relevant, Vince doesn't seem to care which ones matter and caters to his "ass". TNA could be a major force with the talent pool and people behind the scenes. How come it's lightyears away from accomplishing that? For TNA's questions, everyone thinks Paul Heyman has the answers. I think, however, we should look to a young writer or "booker man" who has adequate knowledge of the business and knows his wrestling (a Gabe for instance). Because no one knew who Russo was at one point, and he changed the face of WWFE in the late 90's, it wasn't Bill Watts or Jim Cornette.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

BETTER Shoot I always liked because it had TOTAL validity outside the angle:

 

Kevin Nash on April 21, 1997 Nitro:

 

"FLAIR, PIPER...you and your old time guys, you left this wrestling business in shams. You pushed yourselves and left NOTHING behind for the young guys. You strip mined this company and left nothing for the future. Before me and Scott came here, WCW was nothing. WCW was a bunch of guys PUSHING THEIR SONS. If you didn't have a dad working here, you didn't do anything. Scott Hall was here. I was here. And yeah, I was a little green. So we went to NEW YORK. And whatta we find we we got there? Stay all night, dance a lot longer. Fun and games were over, because it was work, and guys busting their butts to FIX the business from what you guys LEFT OF IT. Where I come from...you beat respect out of me. So while you guys do the champagne, the leer jets, the UGLY BROADS, me and my crew decided we got no problem flyin' commercial, pilin' three in a rented Taurus. 'Cause we're gonna kick back, drink some 40 ounces, and try the BEST we can to pave the POTHOLES that you guys left behind."

 

It's all opinion based on facts, not Heyman being a hypocrite and messing up dates and calling WWE the "bad man" when he was on their payroll.

[TheBigSwigg 0]

Quote:

 

' While Bobby Heenan and Gene Okerlund were dancing around singing "Tutti Fruitti", ECW was producing the edgy TV that you named "attitude." '

 

LIE. Heenan and Okerlund were in WCW by then (1994-94), it wasn't the 80's.

 

' Because while Doink the Clown had green hair and a rubber nose, "Stone Cold" Steve Austin was drinking his first beer in ECW, damn you. '

 

LIE. Doink wasn't in the WWF when ECW, WHO WAS ON THE WWE'S PAYROLL BY THE WAY, had Austin.

 

Stole Bret's dream? Stole Michaels' smile? Used Hogan's blood?

 

(or made them millionaires...)

 

This was just trying to please the smart marks and make them buy the PPV. Lot of crap in there.

 

Basically the whole entire speech is a big "let's rally the internet" piece of shit work because Heyman was a WWE employee when running ECW.

 

WRESTLING IS A WORK.

 

It doesn't matter if he's accurate or not, retard

[BUTT 0]

' Because while Doink the Clown had green hair and a rubber nose, "Stone Cold" Steve Austin was drinking his first beer in ECW, damn you. '

 

LIE. Doink wasn't in the WWF when ECW, WHO WAS ON THE WWE'S PAYROLL BY THE WAY, had Austin.

ECW wasn't on WWF's payroll back then. And Doink was in WWF through the end of '95.

[NoCalMike 0]

The thing is though, if you look at Heyman's shoot in context, it isn't the dates that are really important. I am sure if he does the same type of shoot, while not being on the WWE payroll, he would have more time to get dates and times percise for all the wrestling historians, but his overall point was valid in that Vince took wrestling and made it into sports entertainment for the mere fact that he was rich and he wanted to push what he liked over what the fans and our industry was asking for.

[NoCalMike 0]

Oh and as far as "ECW being on WWE's payroll" You need to get the Forever Hardcore documentary which is basically "The Rise and Fall of ECW" except not produced by WWE/Vince and has interviews with most everyone that was missing from The Rise/Fall DVD.....because they get into a lot more detail about the entire "ECW on WWE Payroll" issue, and it wasn't some huge thing like people made it out to be. It wasn't like Vince or anyone else was calling the shots in ECW on what they could or couldn't do. Only thing WWE had control of was if they were lending wrestlers, then they had the right to take them back when they wanted.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Hey guys, it's not a shoot.

[Wyld Cannon 0]

BETTER Shoot I always liked because it had TOTAL validity outside the angle:

 

Kevin Nash on April 21, 1997 Nitro:

 

"FLAIR, PIPER...you and your old time guys, you left this wrestling business in shams. You pushed yourselves and left NOTHING behind for the young guys. You strip mined this company and left nothing for the future. Before me and Scott came here, WCW was nothing. WCW was a bunch of guys PUSHING THEIR SONS. If you didn't have a dad working here, you didn't do anything. Scott Hall was here. I was here. And yeah, I was a little green. So we went to NEW YORK. And whatta we find we we got there? Stay all night, dance a lot longer. Fun and games were over, because it was work, and guys busting their butts to FIX the business from what you guys LEFT OF IT. Where I come from...you beat respect out of me. So while you guys do the champagne, the leer jets, the UGLY BROADS, me and my crew decided we got no problem flyin' commercial, pilin' three in a rented Taurus. 'Cause we're gonna kick back, drink some 40 ounces, and try the BEST we can to pave the POTHOLES that you guys left behind."

 

It's all opinion based on facts, not Heyman being a hypocrite and messing up dates and calling WWE the "bad man" when he was on their payroll.

 

It's hilarious because Nash is only ten years younger than Flair, and five years younger than Piper.

 

reminds me of the Mr. Show skit where David is blaming Bob for ruining things for his generation, the generation of ONE YEAR LATER.

[Man Who Sold The World 0]

Hey guys, it's not a shoot.

 

We know that. That's not the issue. What I was saying, was that what Paul Heyman stated in that interview could easily be said (and is actually somewhat being said by fans and "Carlito") today. It's the fact that Mr. Vincent Kennedy (.... KENNEDY) McMahon has lost his friggin' mind or he simply does not care anymore.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Hey guys, it's not a shoot.

 

We know that. That's not the issue. What I was saying, was that what Paul Heyman stated in that interview could easily be said (and is actually somewhat being said by fans and "Carlito") today. It's the fact that Mr. Vincent Kennedy (.... KENNEDY) McMahon has lost his friggin' mind or he simply does not care anymore.

 

The reason they can say it today is because they haven't changed one thing in the past five years. It's still a dated product that turns off hardcore fans and it has been ever since Stephanie took over creative in the fall of 2000. I don't know what you're trying to prove but pulling up some promo from the Invasion that added a couple buys to a throwaway show that was forgotten a couple of weeks later.

[luke-o 0]

If that promo was from the Invasion angle, wouldn't have been in 2001?

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

If that promo was from the Invasion angle, wouldn't have been in 2001?

 

November 2001

[Promoter 0]

The thing is though, if you look at Heyman's shoot in context, it isn't the dates that are really important. I am sure if he does the same type of shoot, while not being on the WWE payroll, he would have more time to get dates and times percise for all the wrestling historians, but his overall point was valid in that Vince took wrestling and made it into sports entertainment for the mere fact that he was rich and he wanted to push what he liked over what the fans and our industry was asking for.

 

 

This is true. I wonder if Vince Mcmahon is actually working everyone by his whole new schtick too. The letter from Trump and Vince not listening sounds like a rip on the internet and fans saying he has lost his mind. They even mention this in write ups on wwe.com. I really wonder because Vince MUST know stuff like Rosie vs. Trump will get shittted on and then Meltzer saying Vince liked the match regardless of crowd reaction fits right into his persona everyone is saying of him. Remember that is exactly how he built Mr. Mcmahon int he first place after Montreal. The problem with this is that the stuff REALLY is horrible and making people angry enough to stop watchng the crap. This is where this whole ideaology falls apart and if Vince is thinking this way and not realizing he's boring people to tears or turning people off he really is not in touch and his character is not a character, but Vince really being delusional.

 

As for Nash's shoot interview. All I got to say is pot. kettle. black. because at least Flair left something for him to come back to in wcw. He left NO WCW for the future with his booking. I think that whole generation thing was Nash believing his own hype from the wwf's new generation campaign which failed miserably. Nash blaming real champs like Flair and Hogan for his abysmal failure is ridiculous. I'm saying this and I don't think Nash's reign was as bad as everyone says, but he was definitely no Hogan or Flair to be talking about them leaving him nothing. If anything HBK was the one getting screwed in 1995. I wonder what would have been left of the wwe if Austin didn't rise to prominence to take over the stranglehold of the Kliq in the wwf even after Hall and Nash left.