2007 Spring Training: The Thread

[The Man in Blak 0]

Cardinals lose Josh Kinney for the entire season, due to a torn ligament in his throwing elbow. Though there are plenty of spare arms at camp to fill his spot in middle relief - St. Louis, in fact, may break camp with three left-handers in the bullpen, with Johnson, Flores, and Rincon - Kinney showed some promise down the stretch last year and was actually considered the insurance policy for Isringhausen, who still isn't the picture of perfect health.

[vivalaultra 0]

Speaking of pitchers that injured themselves today, I heard that Mike Hampton tore or broke something or other during BP with the Braves, which means that they might be looking to trade for a Jon Leiber-type, but probably not Leiber himself since the two teams occupy the same division. I'm still surprised that with some of the crap deals this season, Mark Redman hasn't even gotten a NRI from somebody. I mean, he's not great, but he's left-handed and would at least be a cheap league average #5 guy for alot of teams.

 

And Astros' super-prospect Hunter Pence hit a 2-run homerun today off of Ray King, meaning that he's now 10-13 this spring with like...19 total bases and only 1 strikeout or something ridiculous like that. He has no shot of making the team out of ST, but, still...he should be first in line to take over for Jason Lane in May or when Lane's average dips below his bodyweight, whichever comes first.

[Guest]

They can trade for Brad Penny. We have already ripped them off once, I'd like to do it again.

 

Can't really think of anything we need though.

[geniusMoment 0]

Word out of Cubs camp is that Prior's fastball isn't breaking 86 and he's in danger of not making the rotation. Damn, what in the hell happened?

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Word out of Cubs camp is that Prior's fastball isn't breaking 86 and he's in danger of not making the rotation. Damn, what in the hell happened?

 

I heard yesterday from a couple different media outlets that the team would actually cut him if he didn't show signs of improvement in the spring. That seems rather harsh.

[sfaJack 0]

I have a really hard time believing they would just cut him but I guess if they're tired of his not contributing anything to the team and see no hope for him, I guess it could happen.

 

Of course, if it did happen, I would expect him to promptly be scooped up by the Cardinals and go on to post a 10-year run of 17-6, 2.97 ERA, and 245 K's.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

The weird thing is a lot of scouts don't see anything wrong with his mechanics right now. His decreased velocity seems to stem for some sort of mental barrier instead of lingering effects from his injuries. If that's true, who knows what will happen.

[The Man in Blak 0]

You know, I can't help but crack a smile at this fantastic notion that the Cardinals have some kind of otherworldly luck with players, when you consider that they had a 20 game winner die in the middle of the season a couple years ago, as well as a can't-miss pitching prospect (with one of the best curveballs in recent memory) develop Steve Blass disease and try to resurrect his career as a mediocre-at-best outfield prospect. For every Abraham Nunez and Tony Womack, there's a Jeff Fassero, an Esteban Yan, a Sidney Ponson, etc.

[sfaJack 0]

The weird thing is a lot of scouts don't see anything wrong with his mechanics right now. His decreased velocity seems to stem for some sort of mental barrier instead of lingering effects from his injuries. If that's true, who knows what will happen.

I'm hoping it's just because he hasn't pitched much over the past two and a half seasons and his arm strength just isn't there yet. It would be such an awful waste of talent if he never makes it back. Shit, if he's 80% of his 2003 form for the next six seasons, I'll take it.

[Brett Favre 0]

If he's back 80% of his 2003 form, he'd still be an all-star.

[The Man in Blak 0]

Word out of Cubs camp is that Prior's fastball isn't breaking 86 and he's in danger of not making the rotation. Damn, what in the hell happened?

 

I heard yesterday from a couple different media outlets that the team would actually cut him if he didn't show signs of improvement in the spring. That seems rather harsh.

 

The reputation that's beginning to surround Prior says that he just doesn't have the mental toughness or motivation to be a big league pitcher. I wouldn't be surprised if the team leaked that to the media to try to give him a bit of a wake up call.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

You know, I can't help but crack a smile at this fantastic notion that the Cardinals have some kind of otherworldly luck with players, when you consider that they had a 20 game winner die in the middle of the season a couple years ago, as well as a can't-miss pitching prospect (with one of the best curveballs in recent memory) develop Steve Blass disease and try to resurrect his career as a mediocre-at-best outfield prospect. For every Abraham Nunez and Tony Womack, there's a Jeff Fassero, an Esteban Yan, a Sidney Ponson, etc.

 

It's also interesting that people think there is some sort of Cardinals voodo magic that changes the fortune of busted pitchers, when in reality they just have an excellent pitching coach. It's really that simple.

[geniusMoment 0]

Word out of Cubs camp is that Prior's fastball isn't breaking 86 and he's in danger of not making the rotation. Damn, what in the hell happened?

 

I heard yesterday from a couple different media outlets that the team would actually cut him if he didn't show signs of improvement in the spring. That seems rather harsh.

 

The reputation that's beginning to surround Prior says that he just doesn't have the mental toughness or motivation to be a big league pitcher. I wouldn't be surprised if the team leaked that to the media to try to give him a bit of a wake up call.

According to scouts his fastball ranged from 84-86 mph during his start. Maybe it's mental, but that's a damn big drop, and I don't know how you can get back 10 mph when there's seemingly nothing wrong with your shoulder. I'm honestly now wondering if we've seen the last of Prior as a starter in the big leagues.

[Guest Eagle Man]

You know, I can't help but crack a smile at this fantastic notion that the Cardinals have some kind of otherworldly luck with players, when you consider that they had a 20 game winner die in the middle of the season a couple years ago, as well as a can't-miss pitching prospect (with one of the best curveballs in recent memory) develop Steve Blass disease and try to resurrect his career as a mediocre-at-best outfield prospect. For every Abraham Nunez and Tony Womack, there's a Jeff Fassero, an Esteban Yan, a Sidney Ponson, etc.

Well, nobody remembers the bad guys that stay bad, just the ones that get good. As for "voodoo," I think we know that it's not just Cardinal Magic. That's just kind of a joke. Of course the majority of it is working with Tony La Russa and Dave Duncan.

 

As for Prior: roids. I also believe he's soft. The consensus among Cubs fans is that Wood is a hard worker who had a lot of bad breaks, so we can kind of forgive him. Prior, however, just seems to fold. Probably babied throughout his life.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I don't think it's steroids or mental failings. Pitchers get hurt. It's an unavoidable fact of baseball and we really don't have a handle on causes or prevention.

[Guest Queen Leelee]

As for Prior: roids. I also believe he's soft. The consensus among Cubs fans is that Wood is a hard worker who had a lot of bad breaks, so we can kind of forgive him. Prior, however, just seems to fold. Probably babied throughout his life.

You midwesterners are just jealous of West Coast playas.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

Orioles won again! This is really fun! Tied with the Yankees for best ST record at 6-1 (not counting 2 ties)

[Guest Eagle Man]

Orioles won again! This is really fun!

 

THESE ARE MEANINGLESS EXHIBITION GAMES.

INDICATIVE OF NOTHING.

MARCH WINS DO NOT MATTER.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

I DONT CARE!

 

Anytime the Os win, it makes me happy.

[CanadianChris 0]

Come on, Czech, let him have his fun while he still can. It's going to be a hard six months.

[KingPK 0]

Guess who has a blog?

 

This has the potential to become a daily stop for me.

 

So we're into the fourth inning, and the inevitable happens. I start Cuddyer off with a curve ball--strike one. My thought as the pitch is being called is, "OK, anything but a fastball here." Tek puts down fastball in, I shake no. Tek puts it down again, which means he feels great about the pitch. At this point the ONLY thing to do is commit to the pitch and throw it as I called it or step off. I do neither. Mentally I think no, but physically I nod yes. In the middle of my windup I'm thinking, "OK, you idiot, why the hell are you throwing this pitch?" About ten seconds later, when the ball lands over the left-field wall, I'm dropping words I'd put soap in my kids' mouths for saying.

 

Tito is strolling out now, and my outing ends on a misplaced, CRUSHED fastball.

Edited March 10, 2007 by KingPK

[Guest Queen Leelee]

Come on, Czech, let him have his fun while he still can. It's going to be a hard six months.

He'll have a hard 50 years. Make it more difficult for him.

 

And, baseball has started on March 31st, before.

[the max 0]

Guess who has a blog?

 

This has the potential to become a daily stop for me.

 

So we're into the fourth inning, and the inevitable happens. I start Cuddyer off with a curve ball--strike one. My thought as the pitch is being called is, "OK, anything but a fastball here." Tek puts down fastball in, I shake no. Tek puts it down again, which means he feels great about the pitch. At this point the ONLY thing to do is commit to the pitch and throw it as I called it or step off. I do neither. Mentally I think no, but physically I nod yes. In the middle of my windup I'm thinking, "OK, you idiot, why the hell are you throwing this pitch?" About ten seconds later, when the ball lands over the left-field wall, I'm dropping words I'd put soap in my kids' mouths for saying.

 

Tito is strolling out now, and my outing ends on a misplaced, CRUSHED fastball.

 

http://www.sportsargumentwiki.com/index.ph...=Curt_Schilling

[Vern Gagne 0]

The always available Curt Schilling.

 

I wonder if Mark Prior would being have injury problems if he was picked by the Twins.

[geniusMoment 0]

The always available Curt Schilling.

 

I wonder if Mark Prior would being have injury problems if he was picked by the Twins.

I remember when Prior first came into the league the announcers were gushing over his easy delivery, and how because of that he wouldn't be prone to injuries. If he'd played for the Twins he wouldn't have ever pitched for Baker which might have helped. But maybe he was always destined to be injured.

[Guest Eagle Man]

As for Prior: roids. I also believe he's soft. The consensus among Cubs fans is that Wood is a hard worker who had a lot of bad breaks, so we can kind of forgive him. Prior, however, just seems to fold. Probably babied throughout his life.

You midwesterners are just jealous of West Coast playas.

"You midwesterners"? Don't betray your Great Lakes heritage.

[HarleyQuinn 0]

Here are some numbers for Prior over his "stint" under Dusty...

 

2003: Averaged 7.0 IP per start with 113 pitches per start. He had 19 starts with 110+ pitches and 9 starts with 120+ pitches including his final 6 games = 131, 129, 109, 124, 131, and 133 pitches.

2004: Averaged 5.2 IP per start with 98 pitches per start. He had 5 starts with 110+ pitches and 1 start with 120+ pitches (his 2nd to last start).

2005: Averaged 6.1 IP per start with 104 pitches per start. He had 10 starts with 110+ pitches and 5 starts with 120+ pitches (including 2 starts over his last 4).

2006: Averaged 4.2 IP per start with 93 pitches per start. He had 0 starts with 110+ pitches (Season high was 109).

[Fuzzy Dunlop 0]

The always available Curt Schilling.

 

I wonder if Mark Prior would being have injury problems if he was picked by the Twins.

I remember when Prior first came into the league the announcers were gushing over his easy delivery, and how because of that he wouldn't be prone to injuries. If he'd played for the Twins he wouldn't have ever pitched for Baker which might have helped. But maybe he was always destined to be injured.

 

I think when he got the ankle injury in Spring Training '04, he tried to adjust his delivery to keep stress off the ankle, and that led to his shoulder and elbow injuries, IIRC.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

saw this post on OH

 

So far this spring

 

Bedard: 1-0 5 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 6 K, 48 pitches

Cabrera: 2-0 5 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 6 K, 61 pitches

Loewen 1-0 2 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 1 BB 5 K, (unavailable pitch total)

 

The Os obvious 1-2-4 combo there in the rotation looks good so far. Trachsel has looked like garbage though and I havent seen any stats for Wright. Granted, you all will say "its spring training, and only a week or 10 days in at that" but still. Would you rather your potential Starters get shelled and give up 3 or 4 runs and 6 or 7 hits over the same time frame in spring training?

 

Im looking forward to the possibility that the Os actually have a decent rotation for the first time in a long time. Bedard, especially..is going to have an awesome year, as it looks like he seems to have worked on getting his pitch count lower which has been his biggest problem other than injuries. Cabrera also seems to be improving, not walking anyone in 5 IP so far..I dont think he went 5 IP at any one point last year without giving up a walk.

 

Article on Leo Mazonne's potential new Maddux/Glavine/Smoltz

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

You can get excited about wins and losses. Lord knows I've gotten excited about minor league wins and they are just as meaningless in the big picture. But do NOT put ANY stock in spring training statistics. Seriously. NONE.