The Biggest Disgrace of the 21st Century

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Ginger Snaps is Paul, right?

[Guest]

I kept my mouth shut about that, and people still know.

[snuffbox 0]

He can't stay away from TSM so we must be obsessed with him.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

I am amused by his avatar.

[theintensifier 0]

Ignore it and worry about what Brittney Spears is up to this week or who the father of Anna Nicoles baby is...you know..the really important issues for Americans these days.

 

Who cares about..Africa? Maybe if Oprah's school for girls was in Darfur or Angelina Jolie tried to adopt a refugee kid..

Although this is sadly true, can you honestly say you are surprised?

 

Flat out, Americans dont care about anything that happens in a foreign country unless either A)It directly affects them in some way (especially in their wallet) or B) they can get some publicity out of it for showing they care ("I Donated money to some nameless Tsunami/earthquake victims..look how great of a person I am!!")

 

Maybe if Darfur was near a huge Oil deposit or something...or the problem was easily corrected by just donating money to somewhere..

Its easy to say we don't care, or whatever, but ask yourself a simply question: Why should we as American's care about Africa? - What is there to gain if we get involved? - That's how things work, people generally have enough to worry about in their own personal life and don't have the thought nor the care about something that does not effect them directly. Is that a good way to live your life? I'm not going to say yes or no, but I will say this, you cannot save everyone, and not everyone can be saved.

 

There are other things that can be done.

 

I don't want to march, that's even worse than marching into Iraq (as far as knowing about the area, because let's face it, nobody knows shit about that part of the world). But we don't have to be the world's police force, other countries can pick up the slack. As far as my everyone comment goes, I'm talking about the world's governments. And that's the case.

Of course you don't. Its always easier to sit back and say "Hey, you should help." I don't blame you in the least. I would like to help out over there, simply because I have compassion for other human beings, but the thing that has, and will always stop me dead in my tracks is the major problems in the country. Africa has already been lost, the AIDS crisis is nearly twenty years out of hand, rape is a daily thing (research shows that 147 women are being raped on a daily basis in South Africa - http://www.rapecrisis.org.za/rape-statistics.asp), crime is out of this world bad (According to a survey for the period 1998-2000 compiled by the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, South Africa was ranked second for assault and murder (by all means) per capita, in addition to being ranked second for rape and first for rapes per capita. Total crime per capita is 10th out of the 60 countries in the dataset. Other data rank South Africa second in the world for murders per capita and first for assaults and rapes - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_South_Africa). I just honestly think Africa is too far gone for any type of help of any kind.

 

And regarding the United States not having to be the World's Police is absurd. No one else is willing to do it, or going to do it. Face it, the United States is on its own.

 

You know what? I don't want America to do anything in Darfur. You know why? Because no matter what we did there, we would end up getting blamed and hated even more. If we sent our troops in to take out the government or the Arab raiders, we'd be blamed for destabilizing the region. If we send our money, it's probably going to end up in the hands of warlords anyway, and the people would end up begging for more money.

 

Fuck Africa. Let them take care of themselves. There's an African Union, there's an EU, and there's a UN. This isn't about race. It's about America needing to take care of its own, and get our own shit in order first (Iraq, Afghanistan) before we worry about helping people on the other side of the world again, and spending money we don't have right now.

I somewhat agree with what you say hear, for a couple of reasons. 1. We as a country cannot possibly strech our military any farther than it already is without putting our own country at a tremendous and unnecessary risk. 2. We cannot fund such an operation that it would take to truly help out the crisis in Africa. 3. America has its own major problems right now, including the inability to protect our borders, and the homeless in our own country (3.5 million people, 39% of them children, currently experience homelessness every year. 60% of all new homeless cases are single mothers with children - http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4305.htm) 4. Africa does have a government, and a military - they have the available resources to reclaim their country but do not take advantage of said resources, they allow their country to be devasted by diseases / murder / rape / drugs. As much as I'd like to help, it'd be pointless, because in all honesty, the people of Africa are destroying themselves at an alarming rate. 5. No matter what good we did accomplish in Africa, people still wouldn't be happy with what would really happen. It would turn out to be a small war with high casualties on probably both sides. - I don't agree with the fuck Africa part, and I am not racist, I just think this situation is uncurable.

 

Flat out, Americans dont care about anything that happens in a foreign country

No other country in the world is self-centered

 

None!

QFT.

 

Bottom line, Africa is too far gone for any help that might come from the United States, and IT WOULD turn to violence very quickly. Many American soldiers would die, and in return, kill many African's. If there is a answer to this situation, it'd take a miracle of God to find it, and then use it.

[Guest Tzar Lysergic]

Actually, I'm pretty sure it's not my fault at all that africans are slaughtering each other.

 

Having fun pounding those straw men?

 

Nobody said it was your fault.

 

Post before mine:

It is everyone's fault. You can't just go blaming it on one person

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Ignore it and worry about what Brittney Spears is up to this week or who the father of Anna Nicoles baby is...you know..the really important issues for Americans these days.

 

Who cares about..Africa? Maybe if Oprah's school for girls was in Darfur or Angelina Jolie tried to adopt a refugee kid..

Although this is sadly true, can you honestly say you are surprised?

 

Flat out, Americans dont care about anything that happens in a foreign country unless either A)It directly affects them in some way (especially in their wallet) or B) they can get some publicity out of it for showing they care ("I Donated money to some nameless Tsunami/earthquake victims..look how great of a person I am!!")

 

Maybe if Darfur was near a huge Oil deposit or something...or the problem was easily corrected by just donating money to somewhere..

Its easy to say we don't care, or whatever, but ask yourself a simply question: Why should we as American's care about Africa? - What is there to gain if we get involved? - That's how things work, people generally have enough to worry about in their own personal life and don't have the thought nor the care about something that does not effect them directly. Is that a good way to live your life? I'm not going to say yes or no, but I will say this, you cannot save everyone, and not everyone can be saved.

 

There are other things that can be done.

 

I don't want to march, that's even worse than marching into Iraq (as far as knowing about the area, because let's face it, nobody knows shit about that part of the world). But we don't have to be the world's police force, other countries can pick up the slack. As far as my everyone comment goes, I'm talking about the world's governments. And that's the case.

Of course you don't. Its always easier to sit back and say "Hey, you should help." I don't blame you in the least. I would like to help out over there, simply because I have compassion for other human beings, but the thing that has, and will always stop me dead in my tracks is the major problems in the country. Africa has already been lost, the AIDS crisis is nearly twenty years out of hand, rape is a daily thing (research shows that 147 women are being raped on a daily basis in South Africa - http://www.rapecrisis.org.za/rape-statistics.asp), crime is out of this world bad (According to a survey for the period 1998-2000 compiled by the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, South Africa was ranked second for assault and murder (by all means) per capita, in addition to being ranked second for rape and first for rapes per capita. Total crime per capita is 10th out of the 60 countries in the dataset. Other data rank South Africa second in the world for murders per capita and first for assaults and rapes - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_South_Africa). I just honestly think Africa is too far gone for any type of help of any kind.

 

And regarding the United States not having to be the World's Police is absurd. No one else is willing to do it, or going to do it. Face it, the United States is on its own.

 

You know what? I don't want America to do anything in Darfur. You know why? Because no matter what we did there, we would end up getting blamed and hated even more. If we sent our troops in to take out the government or the Arab raiders, we'd be blamed for destabilizing the region. If we send our money, it's probably going to end up in the hands of warlords anyway, and the people would end up begging for more money.

 

Fuck Africa. Let them take care of themselves. There's an African Union, there's an EU, and there's a UN. This isn't about race. It's about America needing to take care of its own, and get our own shit in order first (Iraq, Afghanistan) before we worry about helping people on the other side of the world again, and spending money we don't have right now.

I somewhat agree with what you say hear, for a couple of reasons. 1. We as a country cannot possibly strech our military any farther than it already is without putting our own country at a tremendous and unnecessary risk. 2. We cannot fund such an operation that it would take to truly help out the crisis in Africa. 3. America has its own major problems right now, including the inability to protect our borders, and the homeless in our own country (3.5 million people, 39% of them children, currently experience homelessness every year. 60% of all new homeless cases are single mothers with children - http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4305.htm) 4. Africa does have a government, and a military - they have the available resources to reclaim their country but do not take advantage of said resources, they allow their country to be devasted by diseases / murder / rape / drugs. As much as I'd like to help, it'd be pointless, because in all honesty, the people of Africa are destroying themselves at an alarming rate. 5. No matter what good we did accomplish in Africa, people still wouldn't be happy with what would really happen. It would turn out to be a small war with high casualties on probably both sides. - I don't agree with the fuck Africa part, and I am not racist, I just think this situation is uncurable.

 

Flat out, Americans dont care about anything that happens in a foreign country

No other country in the world is self-centered

 

None!

QFT.

 

Bottom line, Africa is too far gone for any help that might come from the United States, and IT WOULD turn to violence very quickly. Many American soldiers would die, and in return, kill many African's. If there is a answer to this situation, it'd take a miracle of God to find it, and then use it.

 

intensifier, well said, much more eloquently than I could have.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Africa does have a government, and a military

 

Well said, sir.

 

(you know a thread has jumped the shark when theintensifier gets involved)

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Actually, I'm pretty sure it's not my fault at all that africans are slaughtering each other.

 

Having fun pounding those straw men?

 

Nobody said it was your fault.

 

Post before mine:

It is everyone's fault. You can't just go blaming it on one person

 

My bad.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

BTW, why the fuck is intensifier yapping about South Africa?

[Gary Floyd 0]

BTW, why the fuck is intensifier yapping about South Africa?

because he's INTENSE~!

[theintensifier 0]

Africa does have a government, and a military

 

Well said, sir.

 

(you know a thread has jumped the shark when theintensifier gets involved)

There's no need sarcasm (even though I was pointing out the obvious), and I'm not the same person I was a few years back even though I retain the same reputation.

 

BTW, why the fuck is intensifier yapping about South Africa?

Because I don't think its necessary to focus just on Darfur, because if the other problems were solved, I honestly think most of the conflicts in Darfur would subside enough for a coalition of forces to be able to re-claim and maintain Darfur. And to be honest, I didn't really know the full extent of the very really crisis in Darfur, but I was well aware of the crisis all throughout Southren Africa.

 

bigolsmitty - In a totally hypothetical situation, you are granted the power to make an executive decision regarding the Darfur situation, what would you recommend?

 

intensifier, well said, much more eloquently than I could have.

Thank you.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Africa does not "have a government and a military," it has lots of different governments and militaries.

 

bigolsmitty - In a totally hypothetical situation, you are granted the power to make an executive decision regarding the Darfur situation, what would you recommend?

 

Intervention.

 

Now, seeing as I'm not an expert on military interventions, I would defer to people who knew more about these things than I do. I like Michael O'Hanlon's idea here, for instance:

 

http://www.tnr.com/darfur/darfur.mhtml

 

(The New Republic has done some of the best writing, editorializing, and reporting on the Darfur genocide that I have encountered.)

 

I do know that the US and its allies have helped stop genocides before, and done a pretty goddam good job of it.

 

But that was in the Balkans, which is just a bastion of peace and civility. Unlike that horribly savage and unsalvageable Africa.

 

(don't ask me why I'm arguing with someone who thinks that lowering the murder rate in South Africa will somehow stop the genocide in Sudan, on the other side of the fucking continent)

[snuffbox 0]

You wouldn't refer to 60s/70s-era draft dodgers for their military opinions?

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

You wouldn't refer to 60s/70s-era draft dodgers for their military opinions?

 

Ha!

 

I wonder how many people know that Bush's surge plan was thought up by doughy neoconservative "scholar" Fred Kagan--a guy with absolutely zero military experience or even foreign policy credentials whose main claim to fame is some research on the Napleonic wars.

[theintensifier 0]

(don't ask me why I'm arguing with someone who thinks that lowering the murder rate in South Africa will somehow stop the genocide in Sudan, on the other side of the fucking continent)

Hah, because that's what I said, right?

 

Because I don't think its necessary to focus just on Darfur, because if the other problems were solved, I honestly think most of the conflicts in Darfur would subside enough for a coalition of forces to be able to re-claim and maintain Darfur

 

I was simply saying that if they diminished the problems in South Africa, they could establish a coalition of forces and reclaim their continent.

[snuffbox 0]

What duh fuck?

[2GOLD 0]

Umm, I'm not sure how South Africa can reclaim a continent they never owned or had control over. It's going to take an entire UN effort of constant attention to even come remotely close to a solution. And the solution isn't going to make anyone happy because a lot of those governments like the fact they can slaughter their citizens for wealth.

 

It is going to probably take a country by country effort. But damn, this sitting on our hands and hoping to talk it out isn't working. I'm not saying overthrow that government because the next one will probably just do the same thing but to different citizens, but a UN citizen protection force to stop the genocide WOULD be a great fucking idea by now.

[Guest]

Yes, South Africa is going to reclaim the continent from an area that's at least 2,000 miles away from the problem countries.

 

Just because that's the country with the most white people doesn't mean that they ever had control of the continent, I'm sorry to say.

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

Like we (the US) COULD help even if we WANTED to right now?

[snuffbox 0]

Again, for the billionth time, it doesn't have to be a military invasion/conquest.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

How so, though? The jahjaweed (sp?) are clearly armed, and backed with Sudanese government military support.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Well, Dobbs & Intensifier, you'll be glad to know Ann Coulter agrees with you fellas:

 

These people can't even wrap up genocide. We've been hearing about this slaughter in Darfur forever — and they still haven't finished. The aggressors are moving like termites across that country. It's like genocide by committee. Who's running this holocaust in Darfur, FEMA?

 

This is truly a war in which we have absolutely no interest.

[Guest]

It's a black thing. These people take every chance to jump on Muslims that they get, and they pass on this?

 

FUCK THAT. It makes me ashamed to have ever agreed with her on anything she's ever said. She can eat cunt and like it.

[theintensifier 0]

Who is Ann Coutler and Dobbs? Damn, you guys can keep up with the name changes so much better than me, probably because I don't care much. Also, what's wrong with eating pussy these days?

 

And regarding Miss Coutler, how is she exactly "agreeing" with me? I don't recall saying we shouldn't do anything about the genocide in Durfur.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Who is Ann Coutler and Dobbs? Damn, you guys can keep up with the name changes so much better than me, probably because I don't care much. Also, what's wrong with eating pussy these days?

 

And regarding Miss Coutler, how is she exactly "agreeing" with me? I don't recall saying we shouldn't do anything about the genocide in Durfur.

 

intensifier, "Dobbs" has basically become my nickname in this folder since I'm basically the only person on the board who feels that something should be done about illegal immigration (ie. like TV host Lou Dobbs on CNN).

[snuffbox 0]

I think it might be time to change 'Dobbs' to 'Glen Beck' for invader at this point. Either way, nothing can ever top Oreilly's meltdown on Fox the other night.

 

And, you really know you're following the political scene close when you don't even know who Tranny McAdamsapple is.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Who is...Dobbs?

 

It's my pet name for Invader.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

I don't recall saying we shouldn't do anything about the genocide in Durfur.

 

You made an entire quote-filled, "QFT"-laden post about why we shouldn't help (albeit inane)...so I got the impression that this was your opinion on the matter.

[Guest Eagle Man]

And, you really know you're following the political scene close when you don't even know who Tranny McAdamsapple is.

Cue eff tea!