The Biggest Disgrace of the 21st Century

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Eh...I'm not going to pretend that colonialism was a good thing, but the Africans clearly wanted the whites to leave, and wanted them out of power. Look at Zimbabwe (Rhodesia) for a good example. They're doing just fine now that whites are out of power and they have a nice dictator running things.

[Guest]

Okay guy.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Okay guy.

 

Ha.

[Guest]

I'm going to go back into my "not post in CE" shell. It's unfortunate that I'm looking for an intelligent discussion and I get some bullshit about how Mugabe is running Zimbabwe, and that it's exactly what the Africans wanted, so they deserve what they get. What dogshit.

 

Sorry for caring about what happens to those people.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Last I checked, the USA never had any colonies in Africa. Maybe the French, British, Dutch, and Germans could take the lead in Darfur, since they apparently wrecked the continent anyway.

[snuffbox 0]

The United States had African colonies in Georgia, Carolinas, Alabama...

[Guest]

Last I checked, the USA never had any colonies in Africa. Maybe the French, British, Dutch, and Germans could take the lead in Darfur, since they apparently wrecked the continent anyway.

Learn to read, I never said a goddamn fucking thing about us marching in and saving Darfur, or taking the lead. The WORLD needs to take the lead in this situation, it is a gigantic fucking problem. But it's Africa and it's black people, so nobody cares. Fuck that shit, it isn't right.

 

Do you know what we did in Nigeria when they were fucked up, just to note? We helped them fix their problems. It was because they had oil, but regardless. Shit, the African Union can't police its own countries because nobody wants to help them. All it takes is one country, and others will follow. And if they don't follow, I don't want anything to do with them. But that's just how I feel.

 

Everyone has their own soapbox issue. This is mine.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Just wondering, King...what makes this such an important issue to you?

[Guest]

Nothing really. Just that the continent is so fucked up, and it pisses me off that nobody has done anything to try and fix it. The region has interested me since I was a little kid, I like how so much of the land is unknown. It's not anything that's hit me close to home, so others may think it's strange. It's a beautiful place, with people that would be so happy if everything was just normal. Unfortunately it's not.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

The United States had African colonies in Georgia, Carolinas, Alabama...

 

More white guilt crap, blah blah blah...

 

King, yes, I agree, the world should take the lead. The problem is that the UN is supposed to be the world, and they won't do a damn thing about it. It's basically up to the US to do, and that's more than implied. It's why Bono and whoever else is always hounding George W. Bush about it.

 

I wouldn't be opposed to the US going into Sudan if we were given a proper UN mandate to do it, and without restrictions. Meaning, yes, both rebels and civilians are going to die in the process inevitably, and, no, you can't bitch at us later about it, or try to put US troops on trial for war crimes. Plus, we get controlling interests in the country and favorable trade status (I don't know if there's anything in Sudan worth acquiring, but we may as well take it).

 

This will likely never happen, since the UN is too limp wristed, and controlled by Arab nations who are allied with the Sudanese government.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Invader, you are all over the place on this.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

I get sick of the US being asked to make sacrifices for nothing, especially when we have so many of our own problems right now (due to incompetent leadership in large part, but also being forced to lead the fight against Islamic terrorism). I think if we have to bail out a third world country again, it's time to expect some real concessions from the UN, and gain something in return for involvement.

[cbacon 0]

I get sick of the US being asked to make sacrifices for nothing, especially when we have so many of our own problems right now (due to incompetent leadership in large part, but also being forced to lead the fight against Islamic terrorism). I think if we have to bail out a third world country again, it's time to expect some real concessions from the UN, and gain something in return for involvement.

 

holy shit

[Guest]

We gain a foothold in the region if we bail out Sudan. I wouldn't want to march, but there's other options. I don't have sympathy for people that keep slaves, which the Sudanese do. And it's pretty much accepted.

 

Sudan has oil, and most of it gets exported to China and Japan. That's why the UN doesn't take a harsher stance.

 

I really don't like the idea of doing that first thing I mentioned though. I just want a government that's kinder toward it's people. That's not so much to ask. Thought I should clarify that, because that's how it sounds.

[snuffbox 0]

Invader is really struggling with this one.

[cbacon 0]

Humanitarian intervention is irrelevant unless there is an industry to exploit.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

And again, there it's Muslims keeping the slaves, and Muslims who don't want us doing anything about the situation.

 

The oil would be a good return, though. We sure aren't getting any from Iraq, it seems.

[Guest]

If you are referring to what I said, I added something to clarify. I honestly don't care if we get a US friendly government in or not. That makes no difference to me.

 

That's to C-Bacon.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Invader is really struggling with this one.

 

I don't see how. I'm being honest with my feelings on this subject. What more can you ask?

 

I'm actually more complex than some of you would like to think.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

What do you expect when you call your President the "Leader of the free world"? Your government had been butting into conflicts for decades, it's no wonder other countries think of them as Team America.

 

Maybe if other countries would bother to BUTT in once and a while while thousands of people die, the US wouldn't have to.

 

You mean like Canadian Peace keepers? Other countries make plenty of contributions. America is the dominant power. Not to go all comic booky but with great power comes yadda yadda yadda.

[Ginger Snaps 0]

Invader is really struggling with this one.

 

Why? He's sort of right. People bitch about how we should be involved in this instead of Iraq. The reality is, no matter how fucked up the Middle East is, it's almost easy cleaning that place up compared to dealing with Africa. No one wants to bother with Africa because it's usually even more fucked up than the Middle East and doesn't have anything it can use, like oil reserves, to pay towards fixing the problem.

[cbacon 0]

If you are referring to what I said, I added something to clarify. I honestly don't care if we get a US friendly government in or not. That makes no difference to me.

 

That's to C-Bacon.

 

Oh no, that was just a general comment as to why places like the Middle East and Serbia recieve 'humanitarian aid' while places like Rwanda and Darfur get ignored

[Guest]

I happen to agree with that.

 

Kosovo anyone

[Dr. Zaius 0]

Part of the problem with America's lack of action on the Darfur nightmare is that the causes of the situation are hard to understand.

[snuffbox 0]

Ginger Snaps & Invader, what a team.

 

Just because the current leadership thought nation building in the Middle East would be easy does not (and has not...and will never) make it so. The Middle East is so incredibly shaken due to thousands of years of brutal religious tension combined with failed dictatorships/royalties and outside authority. Africa seems to be a more tribal based situation without that impossible religious crust to cut through. In Africa the key would probably be to clean up the corruption of the ruling peoples. No, this does not require a US military invasion and conquest. No, we dont need to nation-build in Africa. But, if we (and the rest of the world with the abilities & some semblance of dignity) would try to do something it COULD help. It IS worth an effort and it does NOT require the neocon idea of warfare either.

[Ginger Snaps 0]

Part of the problem with America's lack of action on the Darfur nightmare is that the causes of the situation are hard to understand.

 

And no one gives a shit about Africa, except maybe snuffbox. Maybe we'd do something for some blood diamonds.

[snuffbox 0]

Not much for reading? Other people in this thread alone have said they care about Africa. Not every American is mindlessly racist.

[2GOLD 0]

Has there been a government in Africa that took control that didn't go corrupt? I'm seriously asking cause I'm not sure. I guess South Africa would be the closest right?

[snuffbox 0]

None that come immediately to mind.

 

The single worst thing going for Africa is the sheer apathy from the rest of the world's leadership. It wouldn't even require a huge budget or anything (certainly nothing like the continued moneypit that is Iraq) to at least TRY. A speech from the President, a meeting of world powers, a cabinet position for peace/poverty affairs, etc. Doing nothing is, as smitty has quite clearly stated, disgraceful.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

The problem is that Sudan has a Muslim dominated government, and is allowing Arab raiders to slaughter black Christians. So, there is a religious, and also a racial context to it.