Chris Benoit Dead - Toxicology results released

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

4. The stupidity of most of you is nauseating.

This story has brought out the worst in a lot of people.

[bob_barron 0]

Belushi is the one who you could blame on SNL's drug culture. They tried numerous times to help Chris Farley, and there was not a drug culture when he was on.

 

Gilda Radner and Danitra Vance had cancer. Michael O'Donoughue had numerous health problems. Phil Hartman was murdered. Charlie Rocket killed himself. None of these had anything to do with SNL

[Frosty 0]

I haven't seen a decent bit of coverage on TV since this shit started....

[justcoz 0]

1. Name another industry where your superiors make fun of you publicly for getting off drugs.

2. So basically, every journalist is a bad person because they make money reporting on bad things?

3. 2.56% of SNL performers died from drugs or suicide. Someone else dig up the Wrestlemania percentage, I can't it's a hell of a lot higher.

4. The stupidity of most of you is nauseating.

 

Name me another form of entertainment that is regulated state to state, subject to athletic commissions, drug tests, physicals, etc. and isn't a legitimate sport?

 

Nobody said that every journalist is a bad person for making money reporting on bad things. Every journalist doesn't go on a mad seven paragraph rant of PLUGGING tribute issues, murder details, etc. leading into their article for the day. They don't offer you this dead wrestler's tribute, along with that dead wrestler's tribute, at a special dead wrestler's discounted rate with a new subscription either. Of course he should be paid for his work, nobody is arguing is that. I just don't hold the dude to the same high standards that you do apparently. I'm not walking around going, "Oh poor Dave Meltzer, all his friends and acquaintances are dying" and hoping he goes all Walking Tall on the pro wrestling industry.

 

I'm sure the Wrestlemania figure is a hell of a lot higher. There is a problem, nobody is arguing that. The problem is that the people in the industry, namely the performers, are drawn to drugs. WWE set up the Wellness Program due to a concern about that but they were looking at it more from a pain pill perspective than their precious steroids. They thought they could just make up their own rules to monitor steroid usage and it backfired and is now all over the media. Egg in the face. Lesson learned. If Congress does anything it should just make sure that their independent testing is improved. You will still have dead wrestlers because guys have been doing shit for 20+ years and things like TNA and ROH will slip under the radar.

 

Vince Mcmahon and HHH are bodybuilding jackasses who hang out in gyms where it's acceptable to make fun of people smaller than you or changes in their physiques. Their comments were stupid and look very bad right now but I don't think a federal fucking investigation is necessary to stop it. Nor do I think that the dudes being spoke to had no choice but to go back on roids so they wouldn't be made fun of.

[justcoz 0]

The Wrestling Observer Newsletter has been mentioned on TV countless times, though.

 

yes, countless times, like those episodes of Donahue and Larry King circa 1993 - that's at least um... TWICE!

And all of the times he's been interviewed since during every story that's hit the mainstream, you fucking idiot. He's media's go-to guy for wrestling.

 

You are quite sad. Can you make any point without some stupid name calling? First, we are talking TV, not the Charleston Morning Star or regional newspapers that quote him. There have only been three mainstream incidents. Steroid trial, Owen Hart, Chris Benoit. To a lesser degree Eddie's death and I don't recall seeing Dave on tv during either that or Owen's death really. I could be wrong. Again I'm not talking about WPXI Channel 11 in Pittsburgh. I'm talking big tv shows. There are very few people in the general public or mainstream media who know what the hell a Dave Meltzer and Wrestling Observer is. Any TV mention is GOLD to the dude.

 

See, I said all of that without calling you a name.

[justcoz 0]

Belushi is the one who you could blame on SNL's drug culture. They tried numerous times to help Chris Farley, and there was not a drug culture when he was on.

 

Gilda Radner and Danitra Vance had cancer. Michael O'Donoughue had numerous health problems. Phil Hartman was murdered. Charlie Rocket killed himself. None of these had anything to do with SNL

 

Right, but it's very easy to go down WWE's death list to and do the same thing. Chris Benoit - Suicide/Domestic dispute, Eddie Guerrerro - they tried numerous times to help him with his pain pill/alcohol problem, Russ Haas - heart condition, WWF medics would not let him wrestle although he was medically cleared by his own physician, Owen Hart - terrible accident, Brian Pillman - pain pills/probably roids too and they responded by monitoring the pill problem more, sending guys to rehab, etc.

 

Granted, that's not going into all of the talent that passed away while not under contract to WWE but you could eliminate many of the accidents, murders, suicides, etc. you will find that most of that list were specifically due to pain pill addiction (and really, recreational use of pain pills has only really gained in popularity within the last decade, even outside wrestling, more kids/celebs, etc. are hopped up on vicodin and oxycotyn) - which I again think the point of the Wellness Program being established was - more so than clear, cut and dry, steroid abuse. Hopefully all of this media attention will force them into making changes to the Wellness Program and their opinion as to what their stars need to look like but it wasn't as if the Benoits died from steroids.

[The Truthiness 0]

Justcoz I applaud you my friend.

[Jingus 0]

Name me another form of entertainment that is regulated state to state, subject to athletic commissions, drug tests, physicals, etc. and isn't a legitimate sport?

Name me ANY other form of entertainment where the employees don't have a union. (And, in fact aren't even EMPLOYEES, but "independent contractors".) Wrestlers have absolutely zero leverage for any kind of bargaining whatsoever. They have no power to change anything. And obviously the promoters just don't care.

 

3. 2.56% of SNL performers died from drugs or suicide. Someone else dig up the Wrestlemania percentage, I can't it's a hell of a lot higher.

That's a hell of an idea. It'll take a little while, but I'm on it.

[justcoz 0]

Name me another form of entertainment that is regulated state to state, subject to athletic commissions, drug tests, physicals, etc. and isn't a legitimate sport?

Name me ANY other form of entertainment where the employees don't have a union. (And, in fact aren't even EMPLOYEES, but "independent contractors".) Wrestlers have absolutely zero leverage for any kind of bargaining whatsoever. They have no power to change anything. And obviously the promoters just don't care.

 

3. 2.56% of SNL performers died from drugs or suicide. Someone else dig up the Wrestlemania percentage, I can't it's a hell of a lot higher.

That's a hell of an idea. It'll take a little while, but I'm on it.

 

Good point but it's not up to congress or even Vince McMahon to form a union. That would be up to the talent and nobody has the balls to take a stand and make it happen. This is a company that goes live on television EACH AND EVERY WEEK - they could easily band together but they don't because they are afraid of losing their spot. The wrestlers could have the power and literally bring WWE or TNA to their knees but they apparently like the money too much. It's not like Monday Night Raw can fly in a bunch of indies guys to work as scabs for that evening's RAW because John Cena, Carlito, Lashley, Randy Orton, Ken Kennedy, etc. staged a walked out for talent to get more leverage. It just seems that people like you and others here are more concerned about it than the talent itself.

 

And union or not... the Benoit family would be dead, Eddie would be dead and so on...

 

Wrestlers are dying. I really don't see what the point of proving that they are dying at a greater rate than the cast of SNL but whatever floats your boat.

 

 

[Jingus 0]

The only people with enough power to force Vince to accept a union are the top drawing guys. And still, you'd have to get almost ALL of them to agree simultaneously to do it. If even a couple are left out, Vince would be all "Okay, YOU'RE FIRRRRED, meet new world champion Chris Masters!" Proof: look at the WWE now. They're operating without any of the following in the ring: Undertaker, HHH, Edge, Shawn Michaels, Benoit, Rey Misterio, Kurt Angle, Eddie Guerrero, Big Show, Brock, Bradshaw, Rob Van Dam, Rock, Foley, Hogan, or Austin. And they're doing just fine. If wrestlers tried to unionize, even a high-placed few scabs would kill the whole thing.

 

 

 

Did the numbers. And it's all very approximate, as it depends on who you count as a Wrestlemania "participant": personally, I just took the people who either wrestled, managed, or ran in during an official match. (And even then, there's room for argument.) Out of about 310 active participants, I came up with only 8 whose deaths are directly attributable to drugs or suicide, along with a few others you could argue about (Bossman, Owen). So SNL and Wrestlemania have about an identical drug death rate.

[justcoz 0]

The only people with enough power to force Vince to accept a union are the top drawing guys. And still, you'd have to get almost ALL of them to agree simultaneously to do it. If even a couple are left out, Vince would be all "Okay, YOU'RE FIRRRRED, meet new world champion Chris Masters!" Proof: look at the WWE now. They're operating without any of the following in the ring: Undertaker, HHH, Edge, Shawn Michaels, Benoit, Rey Misterio, Kurt Angle, Eddie Guerrero, Big Show, Brock, Bradshaw, Rob Van Dam, Rock, Foley, Hogan, or Austin. And they're doing just fine. If wrestlers tried to unionize, even a high-placed few scabs would kill the whole thing.

 

 

 

Did the numbers. And it's all very approximate, as it depends on who you count as a Wrestlemania "participant": personally, I just took the people who either wrestled, managed, or ran in during an official match. (And even then, there's room for argument.) Out of about 310 active participants, I came up with only 8 whose deaths are directly attributable to drugs or suicide, along with a few others you could argue about (Bossman, Owen). So SNL and Wrestlemania have about an identical drug death rate.

 

Well, actually, SNL didn't have 7 drug related deaths, I think someone here broke it down to just two directly related to drugs, Belushi and Farley. So WRESTLING WINS! WRESTLING WINS!

 

[bob_barron 0]

It goes:

 

Drugs:

 

Belushi

Farley

 

Suicide:

 

Charlie Rocket

 

Cancer:

 

Gilda Radner

Danitra Vance

 

Murder:

 

Hartman

 

Migranes and other problems:

 

Michael O'Donaghue.

 

Looking at Wrestlemania 6:

 

Andre the Giant (wasn't it his disease that killed him)

Earthquake (cancer)

Hercules (roids?)

Perfect (drugs)

Bad News (heart attack?)

Sapphire (?)

Sherri (TBD, but speculated drugs)

Dino Bravo (murdered)

Bossman (I'd assume this was roid related)

Rude (roids related)

[Vern Gagne 0]

How much do the the wrestlers actually want a union?

[Jingus 0]

A LOT. The ones who don't make enough to afford their own surgeries, anyway.

[Jingus 0]

Well, actually, SNL didn't have 7 drug related deaths, I think someone here broke it down to just two directly related to drugs, Belushi and Farley. So WRESTLING WINS! WRESTLING WINS!

Yeah, but they also had about 200 less people that we were counting in wrestling, so the death rate turns out about the same.

 

I think Bossman's was more due to him being heavily overweight for most of his life rather than steroids. But really, who knows?

[justcoz 0]

A LOT. The ones who don't make enough to afford their own surgeries, anyway.

 

 

It just doesn't seem like they want it badly enough. Like you mentioned, with so many top guys out with legitimate injuries right now, all of the media attention on the dark side of the business, it just seems like the current crop of top tier talent would actually have leverage to pull something off if they really wanted to. I would think the bottom tier guys would have more reasoning to avoid causing trouble. I mean, none of us really know, it's all speculation. I just think there is more leverage now to try something than say the 80's when Slaughter and Ventura (I think that's right) tried to unionize and were shown the door. For whatever reason they are not.

 

Does WWE pay for all surgeries if they are in-ring related? I thought that was why TNA refusing to pay for in-ring related surgeries was so controversial?

[Boxer 0]

I was just wondering, is this a correct list of guys fired due to the wellness violations?

 

Test

Dupree

I know I'm missing a few others

 

Also, does anyone know who is on strike 2?

I believe Orton was, but that's it?

[justcoz 0]

Well, actually, SNL didn't have 7 drug related deaths, I think someone here broke it down to just two directly related to drugs, Belushi and Farley. So WRESTLING WINS! WRESTLING WINS!

Yeah, but they also had about 200 less people that we were counting in wrestling, so the death rate turns out about the same.

 

I think Bossman's was more due to him being heavily overweight for most of his life rather than steroids. But really, who knows?

 

I'm sure that many of the deaths were combinations of abusing the body a number of different ways. Drug and alcohol addictions, steroids, poor diets, just poor lifestyle choices in general. Meltzer actually had a good breakdown of specific deaths and their causes a few issues ago. That's been the point I've been trying to make this entire time. WWE actually had good intentions with the Wellness Program as far as monitoring prescriptions and cardiovascular health. I think there is a general denial among them and the sports world in general about the long term health effects of steroids. Almost like they felt like Eddie died from his 'demons' like pain pills and alcohol, not factoring in what steroids did to his heart. They just mistakenly thought they could have their cake and eat it too with steroids since it wasn't a matter of performance enhancement like baseball and legitimate sports and many guys had legitimate reasons for roid prescriptions. I'm glad it blew up in their face with the Benoit stuff and I hope it initiates change. I just don't feel they are as evil and uncaring as others here. Vince McMahon doesn't want these people dying. He's just fascinated by muscles.

 

[Mecca 0]

The WWE covers the cost of surgeries, they even pay if they send a guy to rehab....I doubt any of the WWE guys are highly supportive of a union they are well paid and taken care of.....

[Mecca 0]

I was just wondering, is this a correct list of guys fired due to the wellness violations?

 

Test

Dupree

I know I'm missing a few others

 

Also, does anyone know who is on strike 2?

I believe Orton was, but that's it?

 

Joey Matthews was essentially fired for this, he was sent to rehab then came back and got fucked up and was fired.

Kurt Angle likely can be listed to since he failed a test then refused to go to rehab.

[justcoz 0]

I was just wondering, is this a correct list of guys fired due to the wellness violations?

 

Test

Dupree

I know I'm missing a few others

 

Also, does anyone know who is on strike 2?

I believe Orton was, but that's it?

 

Kurt Angle. I think Orton was more disciplinary for behavior although I may be wrong. There was also that time when they suspended guys like Super Crazy and Lashley because of the hepatitis scare. Let's not forget that the Wellness Policy was really only active for like 18 months and the first tests were just base tests if I'm not mistaken.

 

Prior to the Wellness Program guys like William Regal, Sean Waltman, Shawn Michaels, Eddie Guerrero, Eugene, Jeff Hardy, Jamie Noble and I believe Brian Christopher at one point were suspended due to worsening drug problems.

[Mecca 0]

Christopher got fired cause he's a complete idiot, he got caught with weed at the Canadian border when they were crossing over to do Canadian shows.

[justcoz 0]

Christopher got fired cause he's a complete idiot, he got caught with weed at the Canadian border when they were crossing over to do Canadian shows.

 

I did that once :-(

 

[Mecca 0]

Christopher got fired cause he's a complete idiot, he got caught with weed at the Canadian border when they were crossing over to do Canadian shows.

 

I did that once :-(

 

Well if you were working for the WWE you'd be smart enough to realize doing that would get you fired right?

[Enigma 0]

Shit, WWE will pay for non employees to go to rehab.

 

William Regal said he would be dead if it weren't for Vince paying for his rehab and releasing him so he could go to WCW and make more money to get his life back together.

 

And a few years ago, Vince and HHH split the bill so Sean Waltman could get cleaned up.

[justcoz 0]

Christopher got fired cause he's a complete idiot, he got caught with weed at the Canadian border when they were crossing over to do Canadian shows.

 

I did that once :-(

 

Well if you were working for the WWE you'd be smart enough to realize doing that would get you fired right?

 

No, I would think that being in a tag team with the dude that does the worm and my father being the guy in a crown yelling 'Puppies' would get me across the border.

 

[Mecca 0]

Shit, WWE will pay for non employees to go to rehab.

 

William Regal said he would be dead if it weren't for Vince paying for his rehab and releasing him so he could go to WCW and make more money to get his life back together.

 

And a few years ago, Vince and HHH split the bill so Sean Waltman could get cleaned up.

 

See things like this and other things that have been pointed out are why I think some people.....like Bix, are a bit over the top in what they say. Like the WWE doesn't do anything, doesn't care about anyone and is the only reason the wrestling business is fucked up. They do more than any other company out there yet for some reason are still blamed far more than any other company by people who actually know this.

 

"It's all the WWE's fault!"

[UZI Suicide 0]

I don't get the whole SNL thing. The WWE shouldn't have to clean up until every other entertainment medium does? People seem to be pulling out every excuse possible for the WWE.

 

If you really like wrestling then why WOULDN'T you want to see something be done here? That's like having a friend on heroin, with their family ready to stage an intervention and you go, "NO, NO, NOT UNTIL EVERY ROCK STAR GETS OFF HEROIN!"

[justcoz 0]

I don't get the whole SNL thing. The WWE shouldn't have to clean up until every other entertainment medium does? People seem to be pulling out every excuse possible for the WWE.

 

If you really like wrestling then why WOULDN'T you want to see something be done here? That's like having a friend on heroin, with their family ready to stage an intervention and you go, "NO, NO, NOT UNTIL EVERY ROCK STAR GETS OFF HEROIN!"

 

It's not an excuse for WWE, it's a legitimate point. WWE is not a sport. You can regulate a sport but regulating an entertainment company is unheard of. Imagine if your state didn't allow a rock band to perform until they agree to drug testing or a physical or a movie to shoot until they knew that all actors, producers, etc. were drug free?

 

The wrestling industry has a problem. It's not a matter of WWE cleaning up it's act. It's the entire business. WWE has the Wellness Program and I would venture to say that there are less and less people abusing prescription pain pills or recreational drugs vs. 1999.

 

Unfortunately the test didn't do shit for steroids and I'm all for congress asking for documents and forcing WWE to show them improvements in their testing. They should do the same with TNA as well though.

 

As a fan I'm into thinking that I may be seeing guys get pushed for their talent and ability rather than their physiques. I want to see an end to the steroid era. I just don't think regulation is the way to go and I also think targeting WWE alone is useless. Labelling them as 'not caring' and this monster that needs controlled - when they've paid for rehab stints, changed their ring style, pay for surgeries and monitor prescriptions and cardio is wrong. End their fascination with roids and improve that element of the testing and everything will be fine.

[UZI Suicide 0]

But the WWE isn't just an entertainment company. I don't care what the company fancies itself or what the name says, it's much more of a sport than a comedy sketch show or something like that. The stuff they put their bodies through is comparable to only Football.