WWE rebounding from WM 23

[edgehead69 0]

I recently saw Wrestlemania 11 again and.... why does Vince talk really hyper, especially during the Jarrett/Razor match?

[bob_barron 0]

To say Wrestlemania 23 is the worst WM ever is just idiotic, but that's been covered.

 

Regarding Taker v. Big Dave going on last- Everyone was shitting on the match in the weeks leading up to the show and now they think it should've been last? Hindsight is 20/20. I think putting it in the middle of the show cast doubt on whether Taker would win. I thought the match order worked out fine

[edgehead69 0]

To say Wrestlemania 23 is the worst WM ever is just idiotic, but that's been covered.

 

Regarding Taker v. Big Dave going on last- Everyone was shitting on the match in the weeks leading up to the show and now they think it should've been last? Hindsight is 20/20. I think putting it in the middle of the show cast doubt on whether Taker would win. I thought the match order worked out fine

 

That just goes to show you that WWE considered taker losing.... that would be a travesty because that's the only "real" thing left in wrestling.... But all this is just opinion because I still dont take back that 23 is the worst WM..... I mean look at the bigger picture...

[bob_barron 0]

You can look at the "bigger picture" all you want- Wrestlemania 23 is still not one of the worst Wrestlemanias ever. Wrestlemania IX, XIII and XV are right there for the taking.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Nope. Taker was never going to lose. Vince had talked in November or so about having Taker retire with his streak intact. The only time they considered having Batista win was when Batista wasn't pissing everyone off in the backstage.

[edgehead69 0]

You can look at the "bigger picture" all you want- Wrestlemania 23 is still not one of the worst Wrestlemanias ever. Wrestlemania IX, XIII and XV are right there for the taking.

 

IX - It never dragged and sure complain about the end all you want (I Do) but it was entertaining and had several great matches.

 

XIII - This was a bad WM dont get me wrong.. but it too was "Fun to Watch" The show never dragged or had a real dull and pointless moment... Hell it had Austin vs Hart! (But 1 match does not a WM make..)'

 

XV - you know.... I This was really bad but for what it was... it was mediorcre and yeah russofied....this is really at the bottom of the barrel along with

 

XVI - God this was awful.... It was so half assed it wasnt funny! The Ladder match saved it from being the worst but its a close 2nd...

 

Nope. Taker was never going to lose. Vince had talked in November or so about having Taker retire with his streak intact. The only time they considered having Batista win was when Batista wasn't pissing everyone off in the backstage.

 

Oh Whew...... Well Batista actually lost for a change which is a "World Doesnt revolve around you dumbass" statement

I mean look at his promos pre 23... They were god awful!

[Hawk 34 0]

IX, never had several good matches. When the best a show can offer is a paint by numbers Steiners match and Curt Hening collecting a paycheck by phone, that show fails to merit any legitimate claim to having several good matches.

[edgehead69 0]

IX, never had several good matches. When the best a show can offer is a paint by numbers Steiners match and Curt Hening collecting a paycheck by phone, that show fails to merit any legitimate claim to having several good matches.

 

Neither did WM 23

 

[King Kamala 0]

I don't see why XVI is getting repeatedly mentioned as one of the worst ever. Sure it's not great but it had two good matches which is more than you can say for about five or six other WrestleManias. And I don't remember anything striking out at me as being horrible. Even some of the bad matches were sort of fun (Kane and Rikishi Vs Road Dogg and X-Pac comes to mind). You can do a lot worse than that one. I just think it was a huge letdown since the WWF was putting on really good pay per views at the time.

 

 

 

[edgehead69 0]

I don't see why XVI is getting repeatedly mentioned as one of the worst ever. Sure it's not great but it had two good matches which is more than you can say for about five or six other WrestleManias. And I don't remember anything striking out at me as being horrible. Even some of the bad matches were sort of fun (Kane and Rikishi Vs Road Dogg and X-Pac comes to mind). You can do a lot worse than that one. I just think it was a huge letdown since the WWF was putting on really good pay per views at the time.

 

Which 2 matches are you talkin about?

[mysterious_w 0]

IX, never had several good matches. When the best a show can offer is a paint by numbers Steiners match and Curt Hening collecting a paycheck by phone, that show fails to merit any legitimate claim to having several good matches.

 

Neither did WM 23

 

When you go into a match thinking it's going to be completely shit and stink up the whole place, and have that match completely change your mind and make you look at both wrestlers in a completely different light, then it's a great match.

 

Plus I marked out for Jeff's ladder dive (As in legitimately marked out, I'd really thought Edge had broke his back), and it had a main event which while not being the best ever did live up to it's place on the bill. I'd call that a good Wrestlemania.

[edgehead69 0]

IX, never had several good matches. When the best a show can offer is a paint by numbers Steiners match and Curt Hening collecting a paycheck by phone, that show fails to merit any legitimate claim to having several good matches.

 

Neither did WM 23

 

When you go into a match thinking it's going to be completely shit and stink up the whole place, and have that match completely change your mind and make you look at both wrestlers in a completely different light, then it's a great match.

 

Plus I marked out for Jeff's ladder dive (As in legitimately marked out, I'd really thought Edge had broke his back), and it had a main event which while not being the best ever did live up to it's place on the bill. I'd call that a good Wrestlemania.

 

I was optimistic on the whole card and i thought everyone would step up to the plate.. after all it is wrestlemania.... but Cena just cant put a good match and that is unforgivable...

[King Kamala 0]

I don't see why XVI is getting repeatedly mentioned as one of the worst ever. Sure it's not great but it had two good matches which is more than you can say for about five or six other WrestleManias. And I don't remember anything striking out at me as being horrible. Even some of the bad matches were sort of fun (Kane and Rikishi Vs Road Dogg and X-Pac comes to mind). You can do a lot worse than that one. I just think it was a huge letdown since the WWF was putting on really good pay per views at the time.

 

Which 2 matches are you talkin about?

 

 

Ladder match and the IC title match.

[edgehead69 0]

IMO... I was looking foward to the triple threat alot... after I saw it... i thought it was very half assed...... it sucked alot and was really disappointed and wasnt really exciting

[mysterious_w 0]

I was optimistic on the whole card and i thought everyone would step up to the plate.. after all it is wrestlemania.... but Cena just cant put a good match and that is unforgivable...

 

Have you seen Royal Rumble 2007?

[edgehead69 0]

I was optimistic on the whole card and i thought everyone would step up to the plate.. after all it is wrestlemania.... but Cena just cant put a good match and that is unforgivable...

 

Have you seen Royal Rumble 2007?

 

Yeah the only good thing was the rumble (despite Khali) and Mr Kennedy carrying his match

[mysterious_w 0]

Wait, let me get this for confirmation. You DID NOT like Umaga vs. Cena? You DID NOT like that finish?

[edgehead69 0]

No I didnt it was total crap and instantly forgettable... how cheesy is the ring ropes?!?! That match is as good as eating your own crap... Cena can rarely have a decent match... I mean 10 years from now, we wont look on this match and say that it is unforgettable.... we'll look back and say"Man.. WWE really sucked back then.." John Cena is a no talent nobody that he has "dominated" for too long

[cabbageboy 0]

I am 50/50 on whether Edgehead is a troll or if he has a few good points. I too didn't really like any of the Cena/HBK matches, not even the hour long snoozer on Raw. I think my apathy there was that it was non title, so I just put it in the "don't care" file since there was no particular reason to keep interested. The WM match had Cena no selling the leg (and I still wonder if Shawn was lecturing him at times during the bout) and generally didn't hold my interest or scream out greatness.

 

Umaga/Cena was a good match because it let both guys brawl and play to their strengths. Note the NYR match was a regular match and it mostly sucked. I've bashed Umaga at certain points because I think the Samoan Savage gimmick is idiotic in 2007, and really there's not much you can do with the guy once he jobbed so definitively. But he did have his one good match at the Rumble.

[edgehead69 0]

I am 50/50 on whether Edgehead is a troll or if he has a few good points. I too didn't really like any of the Cena/HBK matches, not even the hour long snoozer on Raw. I think my apathy there was that it was non title, so I just put it in the "don't care" file since there was no particular reason to keep interested. The WM match had Cena no selling the leg (and I still wonder if Shawn was lecturing him at times during the bout) and generally didn't hold my interest or scream out greatness.

 

Umaga/Cena was a good match because it let both guys brawl and play to their strengths. Note the NYR match was a regular match and it mostly sucked. I've bashed Umaga at certain points because I think the Samoan Savage gimmick is idiotic in 2007, and really there's not much you can do with the guy once he jobbed so definitively. But he did have his one good match at the Rumble.

 

First Off... Leave the trolls out of this!!!

Secondly.... Yeah they may have played off their strengths but thats it... it was just another mediocre match backed by a nonsense story... I mean HHH/HBK last man standing at rumble 04 sucked, but the story backed it up...and was a tease for WM 20

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I am not in the habit of analyzing wrestling matches. I will say that Cena/Michaels had my friend and I on the edge of our seats for the last 5-10 minutes. I can't see how a match can be that exciting at first viewing and then not good at all. It's silly.

 

Honestly, I think the first WrestleMania really sucks but it being the first one, it kind of protects itself from criticism and protects it from me hating on it too much. If you get rid of the nostalgia though, that is one bad show.

I give Wrestlemania I a pass because it occurred in an era before the concept of the PPV supershow was truly established. The show was bigger than your standard MSG card at the time and it had several memorable moments, if not great matches. The main event tag was nice spectacle. Andre/Studd was a memorable match (I didn't say good). You had King Kong Bundy's quick squash of S.D. Jones, and Wendi Richter regaining the womens' title.

 

And to ask an honest question, what was the greatest wrestling card before Wrestlemania? Can anyone recall one offhand? Maybe Starrcade '83 but that's entirely off the strength of the three title matches.

[King Kamala 0]

There's a poster on another board, who's been going to MSG shows since the early 70s and he said that WrestleMania I was the worst show he saw there at that time.

 

I mean there were a ton of great, big show pre WrestleMania but because history is written by victors we don't hear too much about them.

 

 

Just offhand, there's The Mid South Wrestling Superdome Extravaganza from August 1980

 

Here's the card;

 

Superdome Extravaganza 8/80

August 2, 1980 in New Orleans, LA

The Superdome drawing 30,000 ($183,000)

 

Terry Latham beat Tommy Wright (9:15).

 

Terry Orndorff & Mike Miller beat Johnny Mantell & Ron Cheatham (12:00).

 

King Cobra beat Frank Dusek (10:15).

 

The Assassin beat Steven Little Bear (12:00).

 

Ray Candy beat Killer Khan (9:47).

 

The Grappler beat Wahoo McDaniel (11:00) via DQ.

 

Paul Orndorff beat Ken Mantell (14:00).

 

Andre the Giant DCO Hulk Hogan (13:00).

 

Mid-South North American Champ Ted DiBiase beat Mr. Wrestling II (14:00).

 

Dusty Rhodes & Buck Robley beat Buddy Roberts & Terry Gordy (5:00) in a "double bullrope" match.

 

Junkyard Dog beat Michael Hayes (11:20) in a "steel cage dog collar" match.

 

 

Also in terms of WWF, there was the Showdown at Shea, the same month as The Mid South Superdome show. It drew 35,000 plus and had Bruno Sammartino Vs Larry Zbysko in a cage match, Bob Backlund and Pedro Morales Vs The Wild Samoans, and Andre Vs Hogan

 

 

 

Man, I hate to sound like an old anti WWF curmudgeon. So if I came off as one in this post, I apologize. WrestleMania I is actually a fun show for nostalgia but pretty crap wrestling wise

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

The worst national anthem for a WM was at XI.

[edgehead69 0]

The worst national anthem for a WM was at XI.

 

Amen to That!

[King Kamala 0]

Was that the one where the kid from The Special Olympics sang it?

 

 

 

Speaking of XI, I never got the hate for that one either. It's not bad, just really average (like a couple other WWF 95 pay per views). There's a couple matches in the **-*** range but nothing great.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Also in terms of WWF, there was the Showdown at Shea, the same month as The Mid South Superdome show. It drew 35,000 plus and had Bruno Sammartino Vs Larry Zbysko in a cage match, Bob Backlund and Pedro Morales Vs The Wild Samoans, and Andre Vs Hogan

 

 

 

Man, I hate to sound like an old anti WWF curmudgeon. So if I came off as one in this post, I apologize. WrestleMania I is actually a fun show for nostalgia but pretty crap wrestling wise

 

Not arguing here, just making a general point. Are these cards that are legitimately good on video, or just look good on paper? Wrestlemania I looks good if you just see the match list and don't watch the show, for the most part.

[King Kamala 0]

I actually haven't seen them (Boy I look like a jerk) but I was just saying that they were WrestleMania caliber cards on paper. But really, there isn't much different or bigger about WrestleMania I than the average MSG card at the time outside of Mr. T wrestling.

[edgehead69 0]

I actually haven't seen them (Boy I look like a jerk) but I was just saying that they were WrestleMania caliber cards on paper. But really, there isn't much different or bigger about WrestleMania I than the average MSG card at the time outside of Mr. T wrestling.

 

Agree plus it was only a little over 2 hours...

[theintensifier 0]

There should be a new rule for the WWE folders.

 

New users have to be a member for about six months before they're allowed to make topics, or speak their "opinion".

[Open the Muggy Gate 0]

I am 50/50 on whether Edgehead is a troll or if he has a few good points. I too didn't really like any of the Cena/HBK matches, not even the hour long snoozer on Raw. I think my apathy there was that it was non title, so I just put it in the "don't care" file since there was no particular reason to keep interested. The WM match had Cena no selling the leg (and I still wonder if Shawn was lecturing him at times during the bout) and generally didn't hold my interest or scream out greatness.

 

Umaga/Cena was a good match because it let both guys brawl and play to their strengths. Note the NYR match was a regular match and it mostly sucked. I've bashed Umaga at certain points because I think the Samoan Savage gimmick is idiotic in 2007, and really there's not much you can do with the guy once he jobbed so definitively. But he did have his one good match at the Rumble.

 

match backed by a nonsense story...

 

That story was one of the best we had seen in a long time. Shawn Michaels wanting to hit Cena with the Chin Music at the perfect time. It was so well done and I give the E credit for building it and building it till the last moment.

 

Edgehead, question. For you, what constitutes a great match? If you call Umaga/Cena and Cena/Michaels crap and mediocre respectively, what is your idea of awesome?