College student tasered at Kerry speech.

[Jingus 0]

The guy seemed to go with the cops at first until he remembered he really hadn't done anything wrong at that point.

He flagrantly broke the rules of that forum, and the cops were completely right to take him away. If he "hadn't done anything wrong", then why did the entire room break into applause when the cops first got him?

 

Kerry was even willing to answer his question.

Irrelevant, he's not a law enforcement official, they don't take their orders from him.

 

There were a whole lot of cops and they couldn't take his skinny ass down with out using a taser?

That's the one part I sorta agree with, especially with all those cameras on them, they probably should've done it a little more discreetly.

 

But noooo, they went ahead and used the taser... WHEN HE WAS ON THE FUCKING GROUND WITH COPS ALL OVER HIM!

They used the taser after warning him five times in a row that they'd do so if he didn't stop struggling and let them cuff him. He didn't stop struggling or let them cuff him. When they gave him a bunch of chances to do what he was legally required to, and he refused every time, he gave up his right not to be tased.

 

The fucking kid upon hearing the word taser OFFERED TO LEAVE! Of course he was already put to the ground at that point.

He was under goddamned arrest, he didn't have the option of getting up and leaving. By that point he'd caused a huge scene and shoved cops around, there's no possible way he was just walking out of there like nothing happened.

 

So yeah, he got tasered for yelling a lot. So worth it to those authoritarian types and typical that they would celebrate it.

He got tasered for putting his hands on law enforcement officials and never obeying their orders.

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

The guy seemed to go with the cops at first until he remembered he really hadn't done anything wrong at that point.

He flagrantly broke the rules of that forum, and the cops were completely right to take him away. If he "hadn't done anything wrong", then why did the entire room break into applause when the cops first got him?

 

Kerry was even willing to answer his question.

Irrelevant, he's not a law enforcement official, they don't take their orders from him.

 

There were a whole lot of cops and they couldn't take his skinny ass down with out using a taser?

That's the one part I sorta agree with, especially with all those cameras on them, they probably should've done it a little more discreetly.

 

But noooo, they went ahead and used the taser... WHEN HE WAS ON THE FUCKING GROUND WITH COPS ALL OVER HIM!

They used the taser after warning him five times in a row that they'd do so if he didn't stop struggling and let them cuff him. He didn't stop struggling or let them cuff him. When they gave him a bunch of chances to do what he was legally required to, and he refused every time, he gave up his right not to be tased.

 

The fucking kid upon hearing the word taser OFFERED TO LEAVE! Of course he was already put to the ground at that point.

He was under goddamned arrest, he didn't have the option of getting up and leaving. By that point he'd caused a huge scene and shoved cops around, there's no possible way he was just walking out of there like nothing happened.

 

So yeah, he got tasered for yelling a lot. So worth it to those authoritarian types and typical that they would celebrate it.

He got tasered for putting his hands on law enforcement officials and never obeying their orders.

So are you telling me that after overpowering him to the ground that they couldn't have cuffed him while he was down there? Struggling or not there were a lot of "cops" just standing there yelling when they could have been helping keep things controlled.

 

The real worry about this isn't just that a mistake was made. It is the precedent it sets for more incidents just like this. Sigh.

[Ripper 0]

And its a good precident. You assault officers you will be arrested. If you continue to resist arrest you will be tased.

 

What is wrong with that?

[Dobbs 3K 0]

If the cops had punched him repeatedly until he put his hands behind his back so they could cuff him, people on this board would be asking "Why didn't they just tazer him instead of assaulting him like that?"

 

This is about people being anti-authority.

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

Nah, with that many officers right there on him they could have rung his arms up to pacify and cuff him. Still would have been a better idea to have the officers ask him to let Kerry answer the damn question... but that is hind sight. Then none of this would have happened.

[Jingus 0]

Cops try to avoid incapacitating people with their bare hands if they can. Plenty of reasons for that. Who's to say that the guy didn't have a switchblade in his pocket, or didn't have HIV and felt like biting someone, or whatever.

[Guest Tsukuyomi]

My buddy, who graduated from a local Police Academy, says that most departments tell you to use the taser first before ever moving into contact. The reason being that trying to take someone down is often more dangerous than you think. You think a taser is bad, but you tell a cop to try and subdue someone who is flinging their arms around like that and you'll get a lot of "Yeah, right. You think I want a broken nose?" Fact of the matter is, tasering is a relatively harmless way of taking people down for both the person being tasered and the cop doing the tasering. I'm sure you'll say something stupid like "Yeah, I'm sure that screaming is just exaggeration", but fact of the matter is that they are only going to experience brief pain and have two pinpricks to show for it, while an actual takedown has a far greater chance of injuring someone (This is a wrestling forum, right? You should know that slamming someone into the ground, no matter who they are, can result in serious injury, no matter how careful someone is being...) by accident.

 

If people like Cheesala and C-Bacon would actually watch the video, they'd notice that the cops gave him multiple chances to just leave, as he was breaking general decorum of the forum (By cutting the front of the line, not allowing Kerry to answer, not giving up the floor when his time was up, and just being a disturbance in general). They try pulling him by the arms, then just pushing him out of the place, but he has to yell, scream, and push past them. He wasn't even being arrested at first (Despite his contention), for Christ's sake. They were just trying to get him out of the place because he was being a jackass, and he escalated the thing by trying to push past

 

And it doesn't matter if he's on the ground or not. If he's still struggling against the cops, that's a danger to the cops and the people around them. He was clearly warned multiple times that if he did not stop resisting, he'd be tasered. He's lucky that they were so nice as to try and deal with him without tasering at first, but he obviously didn't want to

 

The only bad precedent that could occur here is that they were way too patient with the guy, and that other people are going to get tazed a lot sooner by much more cautious cops and cry "Foul!"

 

As an aside: I'm quickly learning who is smart and who is a jackass in this neck of the woods.

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

My buddy, who graduated from a local Police Academy, says that most departments tell you to use the taser first before ever moving into contact. The reason being that trying to take someone down is often more dangerous than you think. You think a taser is bad, but you tell a cop to try and subdue someone who is flinging their arms around like that and you'll get a lot of "Yeah, right. You think I want a broken nose?" Fact of the matter is, tasering is a relatively harmless way of taking people down for both the person being tasered and the cop doing the tasering. I'm sure you'll say something stupid like "Yeah, I'm sure that screaming is just exaggeration", but fact of the matter is that they are only going to experience brief pain and have two pinpricks to show for it, while an actual takedown has a far greater chance of injuring someone (This is a wrestling forum, right? You should know that slamming someone into the ground, no matter who they are, can result in serious injury, no matter how careful someone is being...) by accident.

 

If people like Cheesala and C-Bacon would actually watch the video, they'd notice that the cops gave him multiple chances to just leave, as he was breaking general decorum of the forum (By cutting the front of the line, not allowing Kerry to answer, not giving up the floor when his time was up, and just being a disturbance in general). They try pulling him by the arms, then just pushing him out of the place, but he has to yell, scream, and push past them. He wasn't even being arrested at first (Despite his contention), for Christ's sake. They were just trying to get him out of the place because he was being a jackass, and he escalated the thing by trying to push past

 

And it doesn't matter if he's on the ground or not. If he's still struggling against the cops, that's a danger to the cops and the people around them. He was clearly warned multiple times that if he did not stop resisting, he'd be tasered. He's lucky that they were so nice as to try and deal with him without tasering at first, but he obviously didn't want to

 

The only bad precedent that could occur here is that they were way too patient with the guy, and that other people are going to get tazed a lot sooner by much more cautious cops and cry "Foul!"

 

As an aside: I'm quickly learning who is smart and who is a jackass in this neck of the woods.

A cop, as in ONE. In this case there were a shitload of cops.

 

Yeah, I'm doing some learning too.

[Guest Tzar Lysergic]

Tasers hurt way less than mace and punching, and yes, I've felt all three. Not from a cop, but the taser isn't that bad.

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

And I'm not saying they aren't a preferable alternative to say, a baton or a gun. All I am saying is if this guy was really that much a douche on the mike they had opportunity to let things smooth out between him and Kerry and beyond that could have restrained him easily considering the number of cops that were right there. Some of whom were doing nothing to help.

[Guest Tzar Lysergic]

Well, cops suck, that's not news. Point is, there's nothing wrong with this guy after getting tazed, and he's not in prison right now.

 

I don't see how this is even a story, outside of the comedy from "Don't taze me, bro!"

 

 

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

Well, cops suck, that's not news. Point is, there's nothing wrong with this guy after getting tazed, and he's not in prison right now.

 

I don't see how this is even a story, outside of the comedy from "Don't taze me, bro!"

I think it tends to upset a lot of people since dealing with cops as authority figures (in a general sense) really cuts into some peoples sense of pride. Especially so when it is perceived that these people we trust to have that authority go overboard. Factor in the "politics" of the "issues" they were trying to get raised in the room and... yeah it is a news story albeit not a great one.

[Guest Tsukuyomi]

A cop, as in ONE. In this case there were a shitload of cops.

 

And? You're argument is just a poor strawman, and here's why:

 

Cop or cops, tasering is still the safest way to take someone down. Apparently you don't understand that even with 3 or 4 people, the chance for injury is still there and very real, especially when the person is belligerent and continues to resist: You can tell that the cops were going well-out of their way to not actually injury him in a semi-permanent fashion. Trying to bend someone's arm around and put him into cuffs when he's trying to pull away any which way he can is a good way to dislocate or even break his arm/elbow/shoulder. It's not nearly as easy or safe as you seem to think.

 

Tasering is absolutely safe. You seem to think that it's akin to being beaten with Billy Clubs or something, but it's not. It's a brief, debilitating shock that stopped him from struggling long enough to actually put the hand cuffs on him. They only did it once, and warned him half a dozen times before they actually did it. I suppose you'll simply ignore this as well, though.

 

It doesn't matter how many cops you have on top of you. They wanted to do this as safely as they could, even if he was acting like a moron flailing around like he was. This is pretty apparently throughout the entire video, though you obviously didn't seem them simply try to pull and push him away until he freaked and tried to do the "Madden Spin Move" and push past them all. Even then, they tried to take him down as gently as possible, even as he screamed and tried to wiggle away.

 

Yeah, I'm doing some learning too.

 

That's good. Hopefully it'll improve your posting quality, as simply posting the same comment when it's been thoroughly debunked is not good debating.

 

And I'm not saying they aren't a preferable alternative to say, a baton or a gun. All I am saying is if this guy was really that much a douche on the mike they had opportunity to let things smooth out between him and Kerry and beyond that could have restrained him easily considering the number of cops that were right there. Some of whom were doing nothing to help.

 

Huh? How nonsensical can you get? Apparently by

 

1) Cutting to the front of the line,

2) Asking more questions than you should,

3) Using up more time than you are allowed, and

4) Not yielding the floor when asked to multiple times

 

we just should let him smooth out? I'll remember that next time I'm at a meeting. I'll just interrupt whoever is speaking and yell "I'M NOT FINISHED YET!" when someone tries to stop me. Are you inane or something?

 

And they did try to restrain him so that they wouldn't hurt him. You seem to think that you can just slam him to the ground and have it done. The kid obviously wasn't going down without a fight, and they tried to handle it with as little confrontation as possible. Escalating it to an immediate takedown would have looked a lot worse and you'd probably complain about that if you saw how they would do it. The fact is that they tried to do it as harmlessly as possible and he escalated it into an entire scene. You should blame the kid for not getting the clue and leaving when they were only trying to escort him out rather than put handcuffs on him.

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

And? You're argument is just a poor strawman, and here's why:

 

Ahh, ye old straw man defense. OK, here we go.

 

Cop or cops, tasering is still the safest way to take someone down.

 

That depends if the person has a heart condition. Think a cop can tell the difference?

 

Apparently you don't understand that even with 3 or 4 people, the chance for injury is still there and very real, especially when the person is belligerent and continues to resist: You can tell that the cops were going well-out of their way to not actually injury him in a semi-permanent fashion.

 

Actually, I do understand much better now. "Going well out of their way?" Now you are just exaggerating. I saw 5 cops put this kid down to the floor to try and command him. I didn't say they were out to injure him.

 

Trying to bend someone's arm around and put him into cuffs when he's trying to pull away any which way he can is a good way to dislocate or even break his arm/elbow/shoulder. It's not nearly as easy or safe as you seem to think.

 

Didn't say it was easy either. But I will say that once he was on the ground with (eventually) 6 cops on the scene, if they couldn't control him they need to back to cop school.

 

Tasering is absolutely safe.

 

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR510302006

 

Oooh, 150 DEATHS.

 

You seem to think that it's akin to being beaten with Billy Clubs or something, but it's not. It's a brief, debilitating shock that stopped him from struggling long enough to actually put the hand cuffs on him. They only did it once, and warned him half a dozen times before they actually did it. I suppose you'll simply ignore this as well, though.

 

Didn't compare them to billy clubs either. So feel free to keep shoving words in my mouth. But you'll probably ignore that much like you, the cops, and any one else who supports this nonsense ignore the kids offer to leave. Or didn't you watch the video?

 

That's good. Hopefully it'll improve your posting quality, as simply posting the same comment when it's been thoroughly debunked is not good debating. smile.gif

 

Oh I dunno. Starting right off calling people jackasses is a great way to start a debate isn't it? I knew you would agree.

 

Anyhow, all I have time for today. Toodles.

 

 

-=Cheesy

[Guest Tsukuyomi]

Ahh, ye old straw man defense. OK, here we go.

 

Okay, just repeat what I said...

 

That depends if the person has a heart condition. Think a cop can tell the difference?

 

Another Strawman: The rarity of that far exceeds the possibility of getting hurt in a regular takedown. But then again, there is always the incredibly rare chance that a cop might come across someone with a heart condition. Perhaps we should just take them out of service, since we obviously don't want to hurt the huge "Heart Condition" population...

 

Actually, I do understand much better now. "Going well out of their way?" Now you are just exaggerating. I saw 5 cops put this kid down to the floor to try and command him. I didn't say they were out to injure him.

 

Oh, so cops need to explicitly say "I'm not going to injure you!"? You're kidding, right?

 

Someone doesn't need to state something to do it. Cops don't injure people if they don't have to, unless you want to believe that they get kicks off beating people down. Just watch how long they wait to deliver any sort of takedown, and watch as they take him down. They aren't trying for overwhelming force, they're trying to avoid making a bigger scene. If he had broken his elbow in there because a cop tried taking him down too hard, it'd be much more than a joke.

 

Didn't say it was easy either. But I will say that once he was on the ground with (eventually) 6 cops on the scene, if they couldn't control him they need to back to cop school.

 

What should they have done to control him better? I fail to see what they could have done without threatening physical force that would have gotten a guy like that to calm down. 6 guys doesn't mean a thing when they don't want to injure him. It just looks worse when they bring it up for a lawsuit.

 

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR510302006

 

Oooh, 150 DEATHS.

 

http://wonder.cdc.gov/wonder/PrevGuid/m0052833/m0052833.asp

 

Obviously didn't read that closely enough. That's 25 a year. Over 3X as many die from Lightning Strikes, the NATURAL taser.

 

OH MAN THAT'S DANGEROUS!!! Better watch out!!

 

Didn't compare them to billy clubs either. So feel free to keep shoving words in my mouth. But you'll probably ignore that much like you, the cops, and any one else who supports this nonsense ignore the kids offer to leave. Or didn't you watch the video?

 

The kid offers to leave... after he's tried shoving his way back to Kerry and he's already proven a nuisance. He had how many chances before that? They tried to escort him out twice (One pulling, once pushing). Did he just walk away then?

 

No. He had to wait until they finally said "Okay, you're getting cuffs", and he still didn't comply with anything the police said. He doesn't get to choose when he leaves or if he gets arrested... or rather, he does, and he made his choice when he didn't take the first two offers. This idea that "He should have just let him go when he offered!" is outrageous: You don't get to bargain when you are getting arrested. When they are slapping the cuffs on you, you've obviously had your chances and wasted them.

 

Oh I dunno. Starting right off calling people jackasses is a great way to start a debate isn't it? I knew you would agree.

 

It seemed appropriate. Perhaps I grouped you into C-Bacon's group too fast, but you definitely seem to be living up to my expectations.

[Guest Gym Class Fallout]

Nobody cares what you think because you like anime.

[Ripper 0]

LOL.

 

Anime lovin or not though, he is right. "He asked to leave" has to be the worse argument I have heard. Um....so? He was under arrest. You don't say, "Okay, man, if you let me up I will just walk away" when you are under arrest. Geez.

[Guest]

Yeah, what kind of reasoning is that. You can't do something and then when you're going to get in trouble for it say, "Ok, I'm sorry, I take it back."

 

Come on now.

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

Taking it back has nothing to do with it.

 

I do not find it stupid for the police to use discretion when dealing with unarmed Americans. There used to be a day when people knew the difference between the police watching over the people and the police watching the people. I prefer the former as the latter is police state bullshit (which apparently some here see as the optimum choice).

 

Sorry, but THAT is stupid.

 

[Ripper 0]

So wait...are you saying you have issue with them taking the kid out of the place? they should have let him just keep the mic and ruin the entire structure of the thing until he got tired?

 

I mean, when people run on the baseball field, should they let them just run around until they get their fill and then they can leave if they want to? What about if I am in a resturant and I feel like listening to "Fight the Power" on a Radio Raheem sized boom box. Should they let me do that until I am done with my food?

 

Do me a favor, in your perfect world, tell me what should have happened here. Because I am kinda confused now. Because if you are equating removing a disruptive person from a public place to a police state, I need to see what you see as the optimal way to handle it.

[Guest Tsukuyomi]

Taking it back has nothing to do with it.

 

And yet you kept mentioning it as though it has some relevance...

 

I do not find it stupid for the police to use discretion when dealing with unarmed Americans. There used to be a day when people knew the difference between the police watching over the people and the police watching the people. I prefer the former as the latter is police state bullshit (which apparently some here see as the optimum choice).

 

The police did use discretion. They didn't just straight take him down like they probably could have. Instead, they tried leading him out twice, and he continually escalated the situation. They took him down and he continued to struggle after being told not to multiple times. They tasered him after warning him half a dozen times loud enough that it was audible on the camera that was forty or so feet away.

 

If you are going to blame someone for not being discrete, blame the jackass resisting the police and screaming at the top of his lungs.

 

I also love you saying "There was a time when the police watched over us" bullshit. If they had been just watching him, they would have not even let him speak. He cut right to the start of the line and took the mic from someone. If this really were a police state, he wouldn't have made it that far. They let him ask his question, and they didn't go after him. He went over his time and explicitly refused to yield the floor, plus he kept talking, not allowing Kerry to even begin to answer any of his questions. And even when they did, they didn't arrest him immediately.

 

Now I ask you: What time do you remember that would allow someone like that to walk up and start pulling that shit for as long as he did? Definitely not anything before the 80s: You'd probably see a billy club to his head before he was lead out. And I doubt the cops of the 80s or 90s are going to be that much nicer to him than a cop nowadays. I only ask this because I really feel that you're talking out your ass, and that you're basically speaking of some magical land where cops dismiss people who do crimes with a "Don't do that again, okay?" and a smile.

 

And if you think this is a police state, then it's a really, really, really shitty police state. I mean, look how long he was up there: I'll be other police states would have been all over him before he even got a chance to speak. We really got to get away from this 'discretion' thing and just move straight into oppressive beatdowns or something, otherwise we're going to fall out of the Top 10 Oppressive Police States faster than Michigan in the BCS.

 

Sorry, but THAT is stupid.

 

No, you're stupid. Plain and simple. But maybe I'm just a fascist: I don't let people cut in front of me at the grocery market.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

The best part was where they put him in prison, and then surgically removed his organs for sale to foreign purchasers before they let him die.

 

Oh, well, I thought we were talking about China from some of the reactions here.

[snuffbox 0]

Yeah. It's always ok to do dumb shit as long as someone else does something dumber.

[Scroby 0]

The kid was making a scene and was asked to leave, he was told no. Then the cops told him he had to go, then he told them no. Then the cops tried to remove the kid by force and he resisted. When they had him on the floor and were trying to cuff him, he still resisted, so he got tazed so it would be easier for the cops to cuff him and remove him from the building.

 

Why are people acting like this is something that's never happen before? People get out of hand like that with cops all the time, and in most cases, they get tazed to make the sitution easier for the cops. Also, the tazer was apprently not set on a high setting because all the kid said was "ow" when he got tazered. How many times have you seen people get tazered where they're completely out or at least screaming in pain, all this fucker said was "ow, ow, ow." and people are in a up-roar about it. If you really want to see someone get tazed, watch "To catch a predator.".

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Yeah. It's always ok to do dumb shit as long as someone else does something dumber.

 

Yeah, like make a scene at a speech by a US senator, when protesters have gotten dragged out of Congressional hearings.

[Guest Tsukuyomi]

The best part was where they put him in prison, and then surgically removed his organs for sale to foreign purchasers before they let him die.

 

Oh, well, I thought we were talking about China from some of the reactions here.

 

Don't you long for the days where cops would watch over you as you assaulted someone, rather than doing something about it? I can't believe they actually do things, rather than just letting me go with a wink and a smile. I swear, first they come for this kid... then they come for us!

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

"Discretion" as in assessing a threat and dealing with it according to the degree in which the situation calls for. In THIS case they did not use enough discretion and made the wrong choices. This is not some drunk that got pulled over and came out with a weapon. These cops were never in any danger and they KNEW it. This was ONE guy and eventually six cops but no less than five at any point. If they could not get control of THAT situation without using a weapon then they shouldn't be cops. Fuck them.

 

And I never said that this was a police state. I said that acts like that were police state bullshit. Once again I am talking about THIS situation. If somebody were to run onto a field you handle that differently than you might handle something like this. You know you can be arrested for being drunk in public even if all you were doing otherwise was walking down the street. You don't arrest that fucking guy. You just make sure he gets home in one piece. That is discretion and just good plain common sense. So you drag the guy out of the auditorium, put him down in the lobby calm him down (maybe with a "Calm down and leave so we don't have to lock you up" and send his ass home. Most likely he'll be grateful to escape).

 

So Tsukuyomi can act like my opinions are akin to me fucking his dog at the thanksgiving dinner table in front of grandma and the kids... but had the cops MANAGED the situation like I describe then this NEVER would have been in the media and this conversation would not be happening. And there would have been nothing wrong with that. Shit, you'd think these dumbasses would have taken a "Command Presence" course at some point. But instead they didn't get control right away so they panicked and used the tazer. Weak. All day everyday.

 

[Jingus 0]

These cops were never in any danger and they KNEW it.

KNEW it how? This guy could've had a concealed weapon, or been a martial arts expert, or been infected with AIDS. There's no possible way to accurately assess someone's threat level just by looking at them.

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

These cops were never in any danger and they KNEW it.

KNEW it how? This guy could've had a concealed weapon, or been a martial arts expert, or been infected with AIDS. There's no possible way to accurately assess someone's threat level just by looking at them.

Yet it didn't stop them from taking him down.

 

 

Though I must admit the idea of "a martial arts expert" karate fighting with 6 cops amuses me.

[Jingus 0]

Yeah, the odds wouldn't be on his side. So? This dude already showed enough stupidity and poor judgement to completely ignore the rules of the forum and make a loud disturbance, not to mention shove cops around, which is about the worst thing he could've done. Why should the cops assume that there was absolutely no chance of this guy physically attacking him next?

 

And you keep ignoring the key point: they only tased him after warning him, loudly and repeatedly, that they were going to do so if he didn't comply. He turtled up with his arms beneath him, which makes it awfully hard to handcuff him without 1.sticking your own hands under him to pry his out (which is something that cops are specifically taught NOT to do, as the suspect could easily be hiding a knife or something down there), or 2.take other steps. Now, cheesalactose, seriously, tell me: if you're on the ground, and the cops are arresting you, and they keep telling you to put your hands behind your back, and they even tell you they're gonna tase you if you don't, and they KEEP telling you... why on earth wouldn't give up your hands? If I were one of the cops, I'd assume you had something nefarious in mind, and wouldn't want to give you the slightest chance to hurt me.

 

Also, why do you keep hammering on the "they should've let him go" thing? No, they shouldn't have. Once he started pushing them around, he deserved to be arrested, prosecuted, and convicted, because you just don't do shit like that in a civilized society without being punished.