Eric Bischoff Interview Recap

[haVoc 0]

Eric Bischoff Interview Recap (In-depth for Gerweck.net)

 

SHOW: The Main Event, Sunday Mornings from 10:30am-12:00pm on www.MainEventRadio.com and 1690AM in Montreal

HOST: "Reporter" Ryan Rider

 

Can Be Downloaded At: http://www.MainEventRadio.com

 

 

 

Eric Bischoff recently made an appearance on the Main Event wrestling radio show based in Montreal, Canada. As the former head of World Championship wrestling, Bischoff transcended wrestling with innovative ideas and storylines and a unique mindset for the business. He later became known as the General Manager of World Wrestling Entertainment's Monday Night Raw program. In 2006, Bischoff released his autobiography, Controversy Creates Cash, which became a New York Times Bestseller. In this 40-minute interview, he spoke controversially on numerous topics whether it be WCW, WWE, TNA, why Canada is inferior to the United States, and more.

 

 

-Bischoff started off by talking about his current business endeavours since leaving the WWE such as launching his Hulk Hogan energy drink, producing a television show, and an upcoming A&E project which will be announced shortly.

 

 

 

-Talked about how working for the AWA and Verne Gagne and how it was a great experience. The promotion was winding down andwas a regional promotion at the time so he was able to learn things that he wouldn't have been able to had he gone right to WWE or WCW at the time.

 

 

 

-His philosophy for WCW's success: "When given the opportunity to be competitive, it was critical that our brands and our strategy be as different as possible from the WWE back in 1995. That was the goal and that's what I exequted on and quite honestly that's how we were successful. We were substancially better than the WWE at the time, and it worked."

 

 

 

-Bischoff then went on to say that there was no real pressure to beat the competition [the WWE] at the time, and that he was the only one who actually believed that they would be able to compete with the WWE or actually beat them (which they did for 82 weeks in a row). That's what he wanted to do.

 

 

 

-On the idea of splitting the roster in two with the nWo being on brand and WCW being the other: "I didn't want to do it, and it was one of the very mistakes that the company made. I was forced into it but I didn't have much of a vote at the time [due to Ted Turner wanting a Thursday night program added on TNT]. Forcing the company to split the roster watered down the Nitro and Thunder rosters."

 

 

 

-On challenging Vince McMahon to a match at Slamboree '98: Eric thought there was a possibility that Vince McMahon would show up, as a few people who knew Vince really well such as Hulk Hogan were absolutely convinced that he was going to show up. "I was hoping that he would. From a business point of view though, it would have been the dumbest thing that he's ever done which is saying a lot. But at the same time, you know, he's a very proud and competitive individual. He [Vince] would rather fight than have sex half the time."

 

 

 

-When Host Ryan Rider asked what's the true story behind Brian Pillman, Bischoff continued to back up his claim that the plan for Pillman was that all along he would end up returning to WCW. He wanted to further establish the "Loose Cannon" character by releasing him, having him go to ECW and WWE, and then ultimately coming back to WCW. "At least that was the plan, and none of us will ever know if that would have happened or not."

 

 

 

-Bischoff realized that World Championship Wrestling was in trouble in August 1998 and the effects of the Time-Warner/ AOL Merger. The foundation and strategy of the company absolutely changed. "That's when I saw the handwriting on the wall." Without question, he blames the demise of WCW on the merger and considers it to be one of the most catastrophic mergers and acquisitions in history. " AOL doesn't even exist on the New York stock exchange anymore; it was such an embarrasment." Another casulty in the situation was CNN, which used to be the world's leader in cable news, but has never been able to come back. "People who knew nothing about the news business were running the news business, the competitors had an advantage, and CNN was never able to recover. It still hasn't to this day." A lot of people who don't know what they're talking about and think that they're smart wrestling fans because they read Dave Meltzer's garbage or Wade Keller's garbage, the truth is they like to blame it [the demise of WCW] on Eric Bischoff, blame it on ATM, blame it on paid contracts, and the truth is I don't know what the hell they're talking about. All anybody has to do is look at the list of casulties from the AOL-Time Warner merger and look at CNN."

 

 

 

 

 

-Next, Eric went on a rant about Dave Meltzer and Wade Keller and the others. "They're frauds and they're phony, and they're full of sh**. You're looking at a couple of guys who: a) Don't even go to events that they write about. b) Don't have the first clue about the business that they write about; who report their opinions however isolated, uneducated, uninformed as they may be, write about them as fact and then influence people like you who read that information and maybe don't know what's true and what's not. You look at them as an authorative point of reference because they're on the internet or because they have a newsletter. It would be the equivalent of looking at the National Enquirer and trying to keep up on current events. They're tabloid news, they have nothing really to offer by the way of the real information other than the information that is reported to them second-hand, third-hand, fourth-hand, and fifth-hand. They have too much influence over the perception that the general public has on the wrestling business when they don't even have a clear perception of the wrestling business. If they were honest journalists, they would go the shows that they write about, they would interview people first-hand. The truth is they don't, they editorialize much like the National Enquirer. They take one little grain of truth, blow it into their own agenda, blow it up so it fits their own agenda, and report it as fact. People who live on the internet unfornately believe it.

 

 

 

-On his plan to buy out World Championship Wrestling following it's closure, Bischoff changed his mind due to no television being available for WCW on the Turner networks. There was talks between himself and the Fox Network about bringing WCW there, but ultimately let Vince McMahon have it for $2.5 Million (who he referred to as "the only person who actually cared about WCW at the time").

 

 

 

-When Ryan Rider asked why most people look at the Invasion storyline as a failure, Bischoff corrected him by saying "it was a quantifiable failure". The idea of an invasion, a formula that he claims to have created in WCW for Nitro, the WWE didn't really understand it and it never really was a WWE-style idea. A lot of the guys that were a crucial part of WCW like himself, Hogan, Hall, Nash, DDP [umm…He was a part of the invasion], Sting, and others weren't a part of the formula. It would be the same thing as having a WWE invasion in TNA, with nobody that you knew representing the WWE. The audience didn't buy it, they didn't believe it, there was no passion." He believed the storyline was unbelievable (as in Shane buying WCW) and made people feel stupid. By the time the WCW guys came to the WWE, "they have already lost the opportunity, it was no longer there."

 

 

 

-On his debut in World Wrestling Entertainment: "I enjoyed it. The idea of heat was overblown on the internet. I was there for 5 years and that should pretty much speak for itself."

 

 

 

-On kissing Stephanie McMahon as General Manager: "That was actually great. She's a great kisser. Setting her over a table and laying a liplock on her, I enjoyed it. She enjoyed it more than I did, but you know, I enjoyed it nonetheless."

 

 

 

-On Eugene being his nephew: He considers Nick Dinsmore to be a nice guy very polite and hard working guy. However, he thought the idea for the mentally challenged character was "kinda lame to be honest with you." He spoke about how a major concept in WWE storytelling is the usage of humiliation as the source of the heat. It's okay once in awhile, but the WWE as we've seen so many times over the years, it seems to be their only device. The company just doesn't seem to understand the way creative people know how to create heat. Humiliation is only effective once in awhile and according to Bischoff, "we've seen it over and over and over".

 

 

 

-Eric then mentioned how there are no real heels in professional wrestling these days. "The performers themselves don't know what heat is." Storytelling, whether it's wrestling or professional theater, whether it's scripted or not, it requires that people care. Making people care means you need a good guy and a bad guy. The WWE doesn't have any good guys or any bad guys right now. "Even the veterans don't get it, I don't think HHH knows how to be a heel to save his life. He's not a heel. The fact is he's Superman, nobody can hate Superman. HHH is a phenomenal performer technogically and psychologically… but he doesn't get the heat part. I challenge anybody, that if he officially turns babyface tommorow, that 6 months from now tell me what the difference of his matches would be. They are [his matches and interviews] would be exactly the same thing as a babyface and they are as a heel!" Commiting to be a heel is risky, if you become a great heel your career will extended for a long time. You can't create a good guy without a really good villian. When you become that villain, you become a very valuable comodity. But most people are either unable, unwilling or just don't know how to become a real heel.

 

 

-On the Monday Night Wars DVD: "It was biased towards WWE , one would expect them to do that. Given that, I think overall it was close, not 50/50 but at least 70/30 in terms of balance and accuracy which is pretty impressive coming out of WWE."

 

 

 

-On the infamous "Glass Ceiling" in WCW: "All the guys that were complaining back in the 1990's that they were going nowhere when the Hogans and the Scott Halls and the Stings and the Kevin Nashs and the Lugers were going strong; a lot of those guys went to the WWE and they fared no better."

 

 

 

-That group included one Chris Jericho, whom Bischoff had some comments about: "Did he get a title shot? Was he a champion for 5 minutes? Of course he was. Was it the highlight of his career? Of couse it was." He made it there for a cup of coffee, he was a transitional champion. He got to say he was the champion of the world and unify the titles or whatever he was talking about for a few weeks but then it was over. Then he was back to mid-card status with everybody else who was complaining about being mid-card status in WCW!" After all that, Eric went on to say that he liked Chris Jericho and that he was a great performer and that he liked him personally. Looking at it objectively however, Jericho was on top for a cup of coffee and was put back down when it [his main-event push] didn't work. "I was using those guys exactly the way I should have used them, because that's exactly where they ended up."

 

 

 

-Ryan Rider then asked about a passge in Eric's book in which he made a claim that Canada is dependent on the United States and that they are essentially one country. "I love Canada," said Bischoff. "It's a great place to go fishing. There's a few good restaurants in Montreal. Vancouver's a great place to go watch waHe continued to back up that assetion by saying that if you pulled the plug on the United States, Canada would go down the drain with them and that Canada is totally dependent on the U.S. for it's economy. "It's really the 51st state. They haven't suffered the indignity of being called that but 75% or 85% of the population lives within 50 miles of the boarder….How come whenever somebody gets really sick they come to the United States? Because they'll be on a waiting list and die from whatever it is they have! What drug company that manufactors drugs to save people's lives is in Canada? Zero. I can go on and on and on…does Canada have a navy? People from Canada are going say Bischoff is such an ass. I love Canadians, love Canadians. I just look at things for what they really are."

 

 

 

-About being asked to be a part of TNA in 2002: We [Jerry Jarrett and I] had a conversation. I was not made an offer so to say as dollar signs were not attached, a discussion was had for me to become part of TNA. At the time, I was not really interested of going from the mountaintop of the accomplishments, even with the negative things that had happened, profile of President for Turner Broadcasting and going to a small, upstart wrestling promotion…that wasn't funded very well, but Jerry Jarrett is a good human being but he never really launched a wrestling promotion in today's national wrestling environment. He was a very good, successful, regional promoter. But I wasn't interested in becoming a part of a small, southern wrestling company.

 

 

 

-Advice to TNA to improve their product: Differentiate themselves from World Wrestling Entertainment. Sit down, make a list of all the things you they can do to be different from the competition and quit trying to be better than the competition. Because you can't. You're not big enough, you don't have a 25- or 30-year jumpstart. You're a small company with a small pool of talent and you have to sit down and find ways. "If I knew what those ways are, I probably wouldn't be talking to you right now. I don't have the answers but if they want to be successful they are going to have to find ways. Quite frankly, I don't think they are. They're just a smaller version of the WWE in most respects. Granted, they've got a six-sided ring but other than that, what's the difference.

 

 

 

-On Sting headlining BFG against Kurt Angle: "I don't think Bound for Glory is Wrestlemania or even Starrcade caliber. Starrcade wasn't Wrestlemania caliber and I don't think their Pay-Per-View in October is even close to Starrcade quality. Bischoff is surprised that Sting is still wrestling but thinks it's great that he is. He describes Sting as a great character and said that he can be an important character in the wrestling business as long as he chooses to be. He's got a lot of fans out there, he built a brand, and fans have a long memory and remember that.

 

 

 

-Looking back 5 or 10 years later, Eric Bischoff said he doesn't have time to talk about all the decisions he would have taken back/changed if he had 20/20 hindsight. Regarding WCW Thunder, Eric would have "taken a gun and threatening to commit suicide in Ted Turner's office," if he knew then what he knows now.

 

 

 

-About making Rey Mysterio take off his mask: I don't regret doing that. I still believe, to this day, that Rey would be better off without that mask. He would have been just as much of a character, if not more, if we were able to see his face. He is a cool looking guy, if you got to see his expressions on his face he could have gone even further than he has. "Quite honestly, Rey…and most people would dissagree with me to this day, but I still in my heart believe that Rey could have been as big, if not bigger, had the audience had been able to relate to him because they would see the emotion and feel a little more passion… Otherwise, he is a very good, colorful car crash.

 

 

 

-Eric Bischoff still keeps in touch with Billionaire Ted indirectly, saying hello to each other once in awhile.

 

 

 

-Regarding the "Legends Tour" or wrestling promotion rumors with Hulk Hogan, Bischoff had no comment at this time.

 

 

 

-He would not recommend any young entrepeneurs to follow in his footsteps. "I don't believe in my heart that it would work. The world has changed completely, the television industry has changed completely. Trying to recreate the opportunity is next to impossible." If you're an entrepeneur and it's your passion, find a good local promotion and learn every aspect of the business you can possibly learn from putting up the ring to running the camera to running audio to promoting to becoming a referee before even thinking of becoming a performer or a member of a creative team. It's the same reason so many people want to be an actor, when only a handful of people make a decent living at it.

 

 

 

-On actually wrestling in the ring. Bischoff enjoyed the storytelling and adrenaline but with his age (mid-40's), amount of free time, physical size, and backstage responsibilities he was limited in what he was able to learn and do and didn't really like it. "I usually enjoyed the things that lead up to a match but more than a match."

 

 

 

-How would he improve the WWE if he was in creative: Make things more reality based. Quit doing the same things over and over again and expecting the same result. There's a laundry list of things I would do differently. I would want people around me who had varied opinions. Everything in the company right now has Vince or Stephanie McMahon's fingerprints all over it. And it's the same thing week in and week out. It's larthargic creatively.

 

 

 

-Speaking on Paul Heyman, he puts him over as an extremely talented individual but did not click with him on a professional level. Together they could have been cool but it just wasn't in the cards.

 

 

-Have we seen the last of Eric Bischoff in professional wrestling? "Probably. I can't see anything in the near future. I'm looking at different opportunities: wrestling-related and non-wrestling related. It would have to be the right situation and I would have to feel like I would have an opportunity to achieve something that I hadn't already achieved once before. I like new things, I like to achieve new goals, and I like to look for new mountain tops to climb…I would prefer to kinda just look back at my wrestling career and smile and look forward to new challenges.

 

 

 

-You can listen to the full interview with Eric Bischoff on www.MainEventRadio.com (September 30th show), in what may end up being the interview of the year!

 

He's pretty spot on with the problems in WWE today. I can't agree with Rey Mysterio though. He has much more value with the mask because kids eat it up and they make good money selling off that.

 

Also, Jericho may not have had big success at the top, but he has been used much better at the midcard level then he was in WCW. People seem to think main event guys are the only draws, but when midcarders are used right they can get people to the shows as well. Jericho was always someone I'd pay to see no matter where he was on the shows.

 

 

 

 

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

-On the infamous "Glass Ceiling" in WCW: "All the guys that were complaining back in the 1990's that they were going nowhere when the Hogans and the Scott Halls and the Stings and the Kevin Nashs and the Lugers were going strong; a lot of those guys went to the WWE and they fared no better."

 

"I was using those guys exactly the way I should have used them, because that's exactly where they ended up."

I hope he's not referring to Benoit or Eddie, because they fared much, much better in the WWE (although, admittedly, it took them a while to reach their peaks), barring each's tragic endings.

[Black Lushus 0]

He's so wrong on the Mysterio thing. When he lost the mask and went all gangsta, sporting his hair done up in horns as a part of the Filthy Animals, I completely lost interest in him.

[chaosrage 0]

-On the infamous "Glass Ceiling" in WCW: "All the guys that were complaining back in the 1990's that they were going nowhere when the Hogans and the Scott Halls and the Stings and the Kevin Nashs and the Lugers were going strong; a lot of those guys went to the WWE and they fared no better."

 

"I was using those guys exactly the way I should have used them, because that's exactly where they ended up."

I hope he's not referring to Benoit or Eddie, because they fared much, much better in the WWE (although, admittedly, it took them a while to reach their peaks), barring each's tragic endings.

 

Benoit, like Jericho, was at the top for a few months. Then afterwards, he went back to holding and feuding over a midcard belt for the rest of his career. In Benoit's case, it was the same midcard belt that he won under Bischoff in WCW.

 

I don't know about Guerrero since I wasn't watched Smackdown in 2005. But I remember hearing that he was supposed to win the world title again, so Bischoff may have been wrong on him.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

Benoit post-World Title was always presented as a top threat, and always booked to be 1 of HHH's toughest competitors (which is saying something). The fans continued to buy him as a top guy, and was actually pretty well protected. Would he have been booked the same in WCW? His World Title win there was only to bribe him to not jump to the WWE. Would he have ever won it if the situation was different?

 

Eddie blossomed into 1 of the company's biggest draws, and remained as such until his death. He got 1 World Title, and was (supposedly) scheduled to win a 2nd. Would he have ever got those opportunities in WCW, much less been promoted as a ME player (assuming he cleaned himself up, which was no guarantee had he stayed in WCW, which is actually another point in favor of "better off jumping to the WWE")?

[dubq 0]

-Ryan Rider then asked about a passge in Eric's book in which he made a claim that Canada is dependent on the United States and that they are essentially one country. "I love Canada," said Bischoff. "It's a great place to go fishing. There's a few good restaurants in Montreal. Vancouver's a great place to go watch waHe continued to back up that assetion by saying that if you pulled the plug on the United States, Canada would go down the drain with them and that Canada is totally dependent on the U.S. for it's economy. "It's really the 51st state. They haven't suffered the indignity of being called that but 75% or 85% of the population lives within 50 miles of the boarder….How come whenever somebody gets really sick they come to the United States? Because they'll be on a waiting list and die from whatever it is they have! What drug company that manufactors drugs to save people's lives is in Canada? Zero. I can go on and on and on…does Canada have a navy? People from Canada are going say Bischoff is such an ass. I love Canadians, love Canadians. I just look at things for what they really are."

 

Wow, dude is delusional.

[Black Lushus 0]

There's no way Guerrero would have won a world title had WCW continued on the path it was on. He was wise to jump.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

I like how he bashes the IWC, saying that Meltzer - who, to my knowledge, is one of the only "internet journalists" that people involved in the industry will talk to - has no credibility, that if you're not involved in the business then you don't know anything...it's same old, same old. That said, Bischoff at least sticks to his opinions.

[Guest cheetoe]

I thought what he says about HHH's character being the same regardless of being face or heel is dead on, as well as what he says on heels in general. Edge, MVP and Booker are the only guys who really play classic heel characters, and do it with any sense of style and originality. It's like the guys who could pull off interesting heel characters aren't allowed to and the ones who are, if they even start to gather any type of momentum are immediatly fed to Cena/HHH/Undertaker ( ...Mark Henry, Kahli, Booker, Umaga, ect. ). Kennedy is more of a tweener, and you could say the same thing about MVP really. If those two guys turn face then what? Who is left? I doubt that Orton is going to get the belt at this point, and if he doesn't after this prolonged fued... it really makes him look bad. Even if he does, he's only getting it to lose it to HHH. What then? A Cena heel turn maybe? I would like to see it if they allow him to go back to the white boy thug-rapper character that made you cringe but was fun to watch, but you get the feeling that no matter what happens, it's all going to end up with HHH on top. It's a shame because there is some good talent that needs to be and could be elevated, and would make the WWE alot more interesting as time goes on.

 

 

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I like how he bashes the IWC, saying that Meltzer - who, to my knowledge, is one of the only "internet journalists" that people involved in the industry will talk to - has no credibility, that if you're not involved in the business then you don't know anything...it's same old, same old.

The irony being that Eric talked to Dave all the time during the Monday Night Wars era.

[Mike wanna be 0]

-On the infamous "Glass Ceiling" in WCW: "All the guys that were complaining back in the 1990's that they were going nowhere when the Hogans and the Scott Halls and the Stings and the Kevin Nashs and the Lugers were going strong; a lot of those guys went to the WWE and they fared no better."

 

"I was using those guys exactly the way I should have used them, because that's exactly where they ended up."

I hope he's not referring to Benoit or Eddie, because they fared much, much better in the WWE (although, admittedly, it took them a while to reach their peaks), barring each's tragic endings.

Not barring those endings, however, the people in the midcard that did receive that big-time push ended up either dead, burned out on wrestling or depushed back into the midcard. Can you really say he was wrong to leave them there considering what happened to those that got the push?

[Ripper 0]

Not to point out the obvious, but look at the people he pushed over them. Not exactly lighting the world on fire themselves either.

[Guest]

Eddie would have wound up getting the title under Russo. Bischoff just likes to talk out of his own ass. That being said, the glass ceiling was broken once Russo started booking, but by that point it was WAY too late to make any sort of difference in the direction of the company.

 

He says some good stuff about H not knowing how to play a heel. The sledgehammer is what does his heeling, and we all know that isn't very interesting.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Might as well post this here, this is from last month

 

Part 1

 

By Alfonso Castillo, PWTorch 24/7 Specialist

Sep 7, 2007, 12:26

 

 

WWE 24/7's best feature, "The Legends of Wrestling" roundtable discussion returned this month to discuss the topic of the Monday Night Wars. The host, Jim Ross, introduced the panel for season two of the semi-regular series, Michael P.S. Hayes, Jerry "The King" Lawler, Mick Foley, and Eric Bischoff, who as Ross noted, would be on "the hot seat" for the next 90 minutes.

 

Ross began by talking about how the war "ignited the awareness" of pro wrestling in the mainstream. He mentioned WCW's 83-week winning streak, and added that WWE then went on to have a 110-week winning streak, "not that anyone was keeping score." Ross talked about how Bischoff set the competitive tone of the wars by having Lex Luger appear on the first edition of Nitro. Ross talked about how Bischoff rose from relative obscurity as a "candle in the wind" announcer. Hayes recalled an old WCW skit when Bischoff was a B-team announcer and interviewed the Freebirds during a recording session. A clip was shown.

 

Bischoff said a lot of people applied for the WCW VP job, and Hayes noted that WCW producer Keith Mitchell was very disappointed about being passed over, but Bischoff was the "golden boy." During the whole discussion (and really, for this entire season) Hayes had a real snarky tone with Bischoff, that Bischoff clearly didn't appreciate. Bischoff denied being the golden boy, and said he was as shocked as anyone when he got the job. Bischoff said that, with no disrespect intended to Jim Ross, WCW had "been through hell Bill Watts," and so it helped that Bischoff was not considered a wrestling guy and brought a different perspective.

 

Hayes interrupted and told Bischoff not to sugarcoat it: "The reason this all happened was because Bill Watts failed. He tried to take wrestling backwards." They talked about top-rope moves being banned, and the ringside mats being removed, as clips from the Watts-era WCW played. Foley chimed in that he believed Watts left because of "racial issues" - referring to Watts' racially insensitive comments in a Torch interview.

 

"I didn't think I would get the job. I was as surprised as anybody," Bischoff said. Foley recalled working for WCW at the time and also being surprised that Bischoff got the job, even after Dallas Page predicted it.

 

Ross asked Bischoff how he convinced Ted Turner to go live Monday nights head to head with Raw. Bischoff said he didn't have to convince Ted, and explained that he was meeting with him to discuss an international distribution deal when Turner asked, "What do we need to do to be competitive with WWE?" Bischoff said he was caught off guard, took a moment to get "shit together."

 

"The truth is they're in primetime. We have a Saturday night show. It's not a level playing field," Bischoff recalled saying, to which Turner replied, "Give Eric Monday nights on TNT." Bischoff said Turner's words "sucked the air out of the room."

 

Bischoff said he immediately got to work on creating a list of ways the new WCW show could be different than WWE, because he didn't think WCW could beat WWE at its own game. He said on the top of that list was doing to show live.

 

Clips aired of Nitro's debut at the Mall of the Americas, with Luger coming to ringside during the Sting vs. Ric Flair match, and later Luger challenging Hulk Hogan for the title.

 

Lawler asked Bischoff if he thought WCW could have reached the same levels of success if they chose Tuesday night rather than Monday night for its show. Bischoff said no - it had to be head to head. Bischoff said, despite McMahon's beliefs, he didn't think Turner was fueled by a personal vendetta against McMahon, but was rather just competitive by nature. Lawler noted that Turner had a special place in his heart for pro wrestling, and Bischoff agreed. Ross asked about the decision to air the first Nitro on a night when Raw was pre-empted by the U.S. Open, and Bischoff said it was deliberate.

 

In one of the more spirited exchanges of the discussion, Hayes pointedly asked Bischoff if he wanted to put WWE out of business, and Bischoff said he did not. Hayes said he thinks Bischoff did, which upset Bischoff and put him on the defensive. "I think you're wrong. I was there," Bischoff said. Hayes reiterated that he believed Bischoff's "ultimate goal" was "putting us out of business." Getting ultra-serious, Hayes said that the problem he had with that was that, by doing so, he would be "putting families out of work."

 

Bischoff said that, during the wars he may have said he wanted to put WWE out of business, but added that he used to say "stupid shit" like that all the time. He said his goal was not to put WWE out of business, but rather "to be number one… Whether WWE went out of business or not was irrelevant." Lawler chimed in and said he believed Bischoff, and also believed that Vince didn't want to put WCW out of business either. Hayes agreed, saying that if Vince wanted to do so, he would have gone "for the jugular."

 

Ross said, despite Bischoff's claims, there was malice behind some of his tactics, including giving away the results of taped Raws on Nitro. Bischoff said he would have done anything to "bury your show." Hayes said that the tactic backfired, and Bischoff disagreed even while acknowledging the story of Raw's ratings having gone up after he gave away that Foley won the title. He said what Bischoff wanted was to create controversy, and by giving away Raw's results, he thought it would drive viewers to Nitro to see what else he would do.

 

Bischoff said he believed Nitro was edgier than Raw, had better production and better talent. Lawler seemed to have a problem with that claim and asked Bischoff who he was talking about. Bischoff named the NWO, Hogan, Nash, Hall and Goldberg. Lawler said most of the guys he named were "ex-WWE talent." Bischoff said that in the cases of Nash and Hall, they were in WCW before they went to WWE.

 

They got to talking about the NWO and Hayes praised Bischoff for the invasion angle, which he called "genius."

 

They cut to Hall debuting on Nitro.

 

Ross asked Bischoff if he thought Hall, Nash, and Hogan were the reason for WCW's fortunes, and Bischoff noted that Hogan had already been with the company for two years before the NWO was formed. Hayes - again appearing very resentful - said that he recalled that era and was bitter that Bischoff gave him a $75,000 pay cut that drove Hayes out of the company. But he said he understood that Bischoff had a new vision for WCW that included tie-ins with Disney, as well as using names like Hogan, Bobby Heenan and Gene Okerlund. Bischoff said that WCW was "stacking talent," but said it didn't make much of an impact until WCW and WWE went head to head.

 

Bischoff noted that, despite the criticisms that he built WCW on stolen talent, Goldberg was a homegrown star, and Nash and Hall were bigger stars in WCW than they previously had been in WWE. Hayes said he agreed. Bischoff reiterated that, regardless of WCW's talent depth, nobody would have noticed if WCW was stuck on Saturday nights. "The war made it interesting," he said. Lawler interjected, "In war, there's going to be a winner and a loser." Hayes added that the real winners were the fans. Ross agreed, and called the time "a golden era" for wrestling, and Hayes said it would never be repeated. Bischoff said it felt like every Monday night was a SuperBowl.

 

Foley talked about how stale and outdated Raw looked at time compared to Nitro's cutting edge production, and how that drove McMahon to shake things up. Hayes said a lot of people don't realize how close WWE came to going out of business during the wars, and Ross added that a lot of talent had to take significant pay cuts in order for WWE to make pay roll. Ross said he remembers how bad it was because he had "the worst job you could have" at the time as head of talent. He said it was a job that would "shorten your life" and he talked about the regular one-on-one meetings he would have with McMahon at the time. He said McMahon realized that the way to compete with WCW was to create new stars. "We realized, God bless his soul, how many times can you repackage the British Bulldog?" Ross said.

 

The show went to a break.

 

Ross talked about how the wars forced WWE to go out and hire fresh talent - including some names that were not part of McMahon's vision for WWE. Ross included Foley and Austin on that list, and took the credit for bringing them in. Lawler mentioned that there were WWE stars at the time who refused to take a pay cut. Hayes sarcastically asked Lawler who he was talking about, and Lawler said Bret Hart. Ross conceded that WWE had a hard time honoring Bret's big contract at the time and so they made it easier for Bret to leave. Hayes clarified that Bret was going to leave WWE, but then decided to stay, and left everybody guessing for a while what he was going to do until finally announcing his intentions at a show where he showed up "late as usual." Ross confirmed the story, but added, "I love him to death and I wish we had 20 more just like him right now, quite frankly."

 

Lawler again brought up WCW signing away Heenan and Okerlund and Ross said WWE couldn't afford both of them at the time. Bischoff clarified that their signings were years before the wars. Foley asked Bischoff if he thought, if there were no Monday night wars, would WWE stars be getting big, guaranteed contracts today, and Bischoff said they probably would not. Foley gave his own situation as an example, and said that when he joined WWE in 1996 he was told he was being "given an opportunity" and so he would only make a guaranteed $1,500 for working ten dates. He said shortly afterward Marc Mero came in with a guaranteed six-figure contract. Hayes shot back, "Who's Marc Mero?"

 

Sensing that all the rest of the panel was really piling on Bischoff, Foley came to his defense and said that Bischoff should not be cast as the bad guy because he was only doing what he had to do at the time. Ross conceded that the pro wrestling industry was in a slump at the time - that it was not trendy, and was using rehashed stars. Foley recalled McMahon calling in everyone on the roster for a big meeting that would go on to be a "turning point" for the business.

 

"Vince admitted that maybe he had dropped the ball - That maybe he wasn't on the cutting edge anymore," Foley recalled. He said that Vince announced then that they would be creating characters that were "closer to the people portraying them." He said that led to acts like "Stone Cold" Steve Austin and the Nation of Domination. He said fans stopped seeing "dentists and Royal Canadian Mounties." They showed clips of Isaac Yankem, the Quebeccers, Mantaur and Max Moon.

 

Bischoff said, "Call it whatever you want," what WWE did was start copying WCW. He talked about how HHH started wearing a leather jacket and jeans like the NWO and said it was "exactly" what WCW was doing. "A lot of things that were part of the Attitude formula were either directly or indirectly derivative of the NWO," Bischoff said.

 

Saying that he and Bischoff are "buddies now," Hayes praised him for the original black and white NWO interviews. He called them, "a work of art." Bischoff said that was "more accident than design," and that the quick-cut editing of the commercials was just a product of the shooting sessions being a clustermess because of all the personalities involved. "We just couldn't get these guys to work together," Bischoff said.

 

They aired one of the original New World Order commercials with Hogan, Hall and Nash.

 

Foley said he remembers watching Nitro at that time and thinking that WCW "had the hot hand." Foley and Hayes both raved about how great the NWO was. However, Foley said he thought Raw was better than Nitro for a lot of WCW's winning streak, but the ratings didn't reflect it.

 

Ross added that he felt that part of the reason of Nitro's success was the exciting cruiserweight stars like Eddie Guerrero and Chris Jericho. Ross said he has never subscribed to the theory that wrestlers have to be "6-foot'2 or more and weigh 250 pounds… I think that's just jackass dumb." Ross talked about how wrestlers should be measured by their heart and athletic ability. He said the cruiserweights allowed WCW to put on strong undercard matches that captivated fans, provided athleticism and action and built toward the NWO. Bischoff took it a step further, saying about the NWO that "with the exception of Scott, they couldn't work." Foley talked about the contrast between WWE and WCW at the time - where WCW pay-per-views offered good undercards, but bad main events, and WWE offered good main events, but lackluster undercards.

 

Hayes asked Bischoff if he regretted not reigning in his main event workers more than he did. Hayes added that "quite frankly" WCW had WWE "beat" if he were to have done that. Bischoff said that there was no doubt that his pay-per-view main events "didn't deliver," but said that the fans were satisfied nonetheless. He repeated that Nash and Hogan couldn't work, and that "Scott (Hall) could when he wanted to - two percent of the time." But he said fans were still staying tuned because of the attitude of the performers.

 

Hayes said the problem was that there was no pay off to their programs in terms of good matches, and he said he believed that was because "everyone had creative control" in their contracts. Bischoff responded, "Bullshit" and said that only Hogan, and maybe Bret Hart, had creative control. Nonetheless, Bischoff admitted that he listened to the input of wrestlers. "If I made a mistake and didn't deliver… It wasn't because we didn't care," Bischoff said. He said that, in hid mind, Nitro was there to build to pay-per-views, and that he thought of each Nitro as a chapter in a book where a pay-per-view offered the big finish.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Part 2

 

We pick up the second half of the roundtable with a clip of Hogan vs. Sting with Bret as the referee at Starrcade 1997, with Sting winning and celebrating in the ring with the WCW babyfaces.

 

The conversation shifted to Bret Hart, with saying WWE couldn't afford to keep Bret at the time. He added, "I have all the respect for Bret Hart, and that may make me in the minority in this company." He asked Bischoff how serious the negotiations had been with Bret. Bischoff said he liked Bret a lot, and got along with him well because they shared a lot of interests, including American Indians and Canadian history. Foley talked about how he and Bret used to trade books on the Civil War.

 

Hayes said Bischoff had a talent for negotiating with wrestlers, and Bischoff said it was because, "I'm a salesman. I've always been a salesman."

 

Ross briefly went over the Montreal screwjob, and Hayes said Ross shouldn't gloss over the fact that "there was a ton of talent" that refused to go on TV the next night, including Foley. Ross recalled fielding calls all night from upset wrestlers. Bischoff said he didn't think McMahon becoming a TV character would have been such a big deal, even though Zane Bresloff warned him about it at the time. Hayes said, no matter who screwed Bret, WCW messed up by waiting so long to debut him. He said WCW should have jumped on the story. Bischoff said he didn't recall why he took so long to debut him, but he did remember writing Bret a big check for guaranteed millions. Hayes said, "It was just to take him away from us." Bischoff resented Hayes' statement and said, "No it wasn't. There we go again." He said the main reason he signed Bret was because Turner was adding an extra two hours of WCW programming in the form of Thunder, and he didn't want to cannibalize his talent. He said adding a third hour of Nitro, "overkilled it." Hayes asked Bischoff if he regretted the move, and Bischoff said he didn't have a choice.

 

In a weird moment, Lawler interjected and asked, "Was it my imagination" or could the entire Montreal incident have been a "concocted situation between Bret and Vince?" Ross said he didn't think so, although Vince Russo and Ed Ferrara were at the helm at the time. Ross said he believed that if Vince wanted to keep Bret in WWE "as the Babe Ruth" he would have.

 

Foley said at that time, WWE was only a few months away from Mike Tyson's involvement, and then it was "off to the races" with WWE taking over on Monday nights. He asked, with both companies doing so well at the time, was it more important for Bischoff to just have WCW do well, or to beat WWE. Bischoff said he wanted to beat WWE, and in doing so, WCW would be successful. Foley said he heard Bischoff took it hard when WWE was beating WCW, even as WCW was still doing very well in the ratings. Bischoff admitted that he was having a hard time, but it largely a matter of being "fried" at the time and not having a lot of help in dealing with talent. Lawler said that talent was likely telling him whatever was in their best interest.

 

Foley talked about stunned Eddie Guerrero and Dean Malenko were when they came to WWE and saw everyone changing in the same dressing room. Bischoff said it was a good point, and that he screwed up by not keeping everyone on more of an even keel in the WCW locker room and allowing hierarchies to develop. Ross noted that any wrestling companies that gives some wrestlers private dressing rooms, "are begging for major issues." Out of nowhere, Hayes accused Lawyer of being the worst offender as far as keeping his own dressing room in the Memphis territory, to which Lawler got defensive and said it was also a matter of him being the owner of the promotion. "This has nothing to do with me," Lawler said. Hayes said he now understands why Lawler did that back in the day.

 

Ross shifted the conversation to the night when the "beloved" Mick Foley reached his lifelong goal of winning the WWE title. Foley talked about how Tony Schiavone dismissed all of his accomplishments with his line: "Wow, that's going to put asses in the seats." Bischoff said he would say things like that all of the time, and specifically brought up a time when he made fun of Shawn Michaels' weak-looking superkick. Foley said he believed it was personal in his situation.

 

Getting emotional, Hayes talked about how inspiring Foley's victory was, and how it changed the course of pro wrestling. Foley thanked him. . A clip of the match, in which Mankind defeated the Rock to win the WWE title, was shown.

 

Foley said he knew he was just a transitional champion, but he still considered the win a lifelong achievement. He said it was arguably the best night of his career, and recalled gathering with his family to watch it on TV - first watching a "lame" edition of Nitro. Then he heard his name mentioned by Schiavone. "You took a night that was this big for me and you just took everything out of me… That was mean spirited," said Foley, who added that he knew Bischoff was behind Schiavone's words.

 

Foley talked about how that Raw was taped in Massachusetts, while Nitro was live from the GeorgiaDome, the night after WCW's biggest pay-per-view of the year when Goldberg's undefeated streak came to an end. And still, WWE took 100,000 fans away from Nitro when Foley fought for the title. "It was at that point that people started saying, ‘Maybe this guy is a player." He said, in that way, Bischoff actually did him a favor.

 

Foley talked about how he called Schiavone and left him a message, and Schiavone called back very apologetic and said he had respect for Mick and that he was forced to say the things he did. Bischoff said he didn't recall whether he produced Schiavone that night, but said he usually didn't. He said he never told him to "bury this son of a pitch," but rather that the whole tactic was just the way he did business as the time, and had nothing to do with Foley personally.

 

Lawler said nothing ever made Vince as mad as when Bischoff would give away the results of a taped Raw live on the air. Bischoff talked about how his theory was to give away pay-per-view quality matches for free on Nitro, and Ross interjected, "We do that many times on Raw right now." Bischoff talked about the Hogan-Goldberg match, and how it was Hogan's idea to put Goldberg over. He said he didn't regret it.

 

Lawler asked Bischoff if he thought there was one thing that caused the demise of WCW more than anything else. Bischoff said there was no single thing. Ross talked about the importance of homegrown talent, and pointed out Sting, whose career was made against Ric Flair in 1988. Ross said, in hindsight, WCW should have pushed more homegrown stars instead of relying "on a lot of old legs and manipulative individuals." Bischoff said that between 1996 and 1998, WCW did create a lot of stars, but Lawler said they were never able to push out the older guys. Bischoff said one of the problems was that in 1998, when WWE "went Attitude," it started doing the edgier material better than WCW did. "You kind of out-Nitroed Nitro," he said.

 

A clip of the DX "invasion" outside a Nitro event aired.

 

Bischoff said that while WWE was developing an Edge, WCW was facing more stringent rules from standards and practices. He said he was no longer able to refer to people as "stupid" at the risk of offending the parents of learning disabled children. He said WCW was being forced to become a family-product just as WWE was developing its attitude. Hayes said Bischoff was being handcuffed when he needed to fight. Bischoff said that was part of the problem, but he didn't want to use it as an excuse. In a bit taken almost word for word from his book, Bischoff talked about being called into a meeting with Turner ad execs who were telling him where they wanted WCW in 18 months, despite not even knowing what night of the week Nitro aired and never having watched it.

 

Bischoff gave the story of his firing, saying Harvey Schiller told him to go home. When Bischoff said he had a pay-per-view that Sunday, Schiller told him, "Not this Sunday you don't."

 

In a very strange rant, Ross talked about knowing all too well what being fired feels like, comparing it to "being the bottom guy" on the TV show Oz. Ross said it in his own case it was all because he "didn't have the right look." He said he's still battling those problems today and is sure he will be replaced one day. Ross called former WCW exec Bill Shaw a "blatant liar" for whom he had no respect because he told him he would bring him back after six weeks, but never did because they had a different vision for WCW. He said Shaw couldn't hire five guys to take his spot. He ranted about Shaw wanting to demote him to announcing syndicated shows. "The bottom line is you walked into the same meeting I walked into with Turner." Wow.

 

Bischoff said he was very stressed at the time by people telling him what to do, and that his biggest regret was that he didn't quit WCW a year earlier in 1998, when he would have had more leverage. Ross asked Bischoff is he believed all the hype about Vince Russo and Ed Ferrara and whether they would be WCW's saviors. Bischoff said he barely knew either of them. "I wouldn't have recognized them if they came to my house and delivered a pizza," said Bischoff, who added that he didn't believe that they were the force behind WWE's success, because if they were, Vince would have never let them go.

 

Bischoff said he remembered watching Guerrero and Saturn debut on WWE and telling his wife that he expected to get the call for him to come back any day. ((I'm guessing they edited out Benoit's name.) And he did. He talked about Nitro's ratings having gone from the 5's into the high 2's. He recalled being asked if he could work with Vince Russo. He said he had met Russo once and that he was charming. He said their partnership lasted just 60 days.

 

Ross asked Bischoff where he was for the final Nitro. Bischoff said he couldn't watch, especially since it was his "baby" - referring to the Panama City spring break edition. Ross asked if it bothered Bischoff not to be there, and Bischoff said it did because part of him still felt like WCW was his. He said Jamie Kellner had put a stake in the heart of WCW. He said he thought he had a deal finalized to buy the company through Fusient Media and had even told his family to expect that he would be gone for long periods of time soon, like he did during Nitro's glory days. Then he found out that Turner would only sell Fusient the tape library and the trademarks, but not the distribution rights. Without it, he said WCW was worth nothing.

 

To close, Ross noted that his was the final voice ever heard on WCW Monday Nitro.

[Guest RyanRider]

Edge, MVP and Booker are the only guys who really play classic heel characters, and do it with any sense of style and originality.

 

As the one who conducted that interview with Bischoff, I don't think Edge is a good heel either. He's cool, and he's a pretty boy...it's just too hard for fans to hate him.

[Mecca 0]

I like how he bashes the IWC, saying that Meltzer - who, to my knowledge, is one of the only "internet journalists" that people involved in the industry will talk to - has no credibility, that if you're not involved in the business then you don't know anything...it's same old, same old. That said, Bischoff at least sticks to his opinions.

 

There are tons of fans who believe that too, that any of the "dirtsheet guys" don't know anything and are just making things up.

 

I do think they are smart and do portray certain guys positively and negatively based up on who they know is reading....