MLB Off-season Thread

[Guest RyechnaiaSobaka]

I almost feel bad for Kenny Williams. He got pantsed on the Hunter signing, and now not only did he fail to get Cabrera as was heavily speculated, Cabrera + Willis are on a divisional rival. Now he's struggling to unload Joe Crede. Good thing he's an arrogant douchebag from a notoriously unprofessional organization or I'd have some sympathy.

 

You shouldn't feel bad for anybody who gives Ozzie Guillen a contract to manage his team.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Latest word is that the Twins aren't crazy about the Red Sox deal and have reached out to the Mets, Angels and Dodgers to see what they might offer. According to Peter Gammons, it's starting to look like he might not be moved at all. Oh, and according to several sources, the Yankees aren't completely out of the race either, despite Hank's media buffoonery.

 

 

[Bruiser Chong 0]

And what's this make the Marlins' payroll, like 350 bucks?

[Nightwing 0]

Wow. I changed over to Sportscenter after the Red Wings game and suddenly I'm being bombarded with this trade. I thought they were honestly done after Renteria, but damn it if Ilitch isn't willing to build a winning team. A damn good owner, and a man who is able to get a good GM that can make these sorts of moves.

 

So what fraction of A-Rod would we get if we went for broke and spent the entire Marlin's budget right now? A fifth, maybe a fourth if we're lucky and feels charitable?

[Guest RyechnaiaSobaka]

Latest word is that the Twins aren't crazy about the Red Sox deal and have reached out to the Mets, Angels and Dodgers to see what they might offer. According to Peter Gammons, it's starting to look like he might not be moved at all. Oh, and according to several sources, the Yankees aren't completely out of the race either, despite Hank's media buffoonery.

 

The Twins would be pretty foolish not to try to move him now. What if he gets hurt or starts the season off slowly?

 

[Perfxion 0]

With this trade to the Tigers, the Marlins might have about a 7.5 to 8.0 million dollar payroll. They do recieve 60 MILLION dollars from TV and the other teams agreement before the first pitch of the season. So the billion dollar question is, where is the money?

[KingPK 0]

The Twins might be getting a little greedy here.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

And what's this make the Marlins' payroll, like 350 bucks?

 

 

Even though this makes the Marlins look like more of a joke than they already are, they cleaned house on this deal. Cameron Maybin is a legit superstar in the making. He has the ceiling of an All-Star outfielder. He needs to work on his pitch selection and defense, but the tools are there to be something special in the future.

 

Andrew Miller isn't just a good prospect, he's better than Dontrelle right now. Control issues may still be a problem, but the stuff is undeniable and he's moving from the AL Central to NL East and Dolphin Stadium. He's going to put up some nice numbers (well, if Florida ever improves their defense).

 

As for the other four guys, none of them look like much, but it's give the team some depth in the minors. If one of those guys hits big, the deal just gets that much better.

 

That being said, this was also an amazing deal for the Detroit Tigers. That offense is deadly, best in baseball by a long shot, and while the rotation doesn't scare anyone, there are some decent arms there and definitely enough to win in October. Cabrera is this generation's Hank Aaron. The weight is a problem, but he is a transcendent superstar. Dontrelle has been terrible for the past year and a half, but a good pitching coach might be able to get him back on track because the talent is still there. A 4th starter making $8 million isn't the worst thing in the world. They still need to fix the bullpen, but there's plenty of time to do that.

[Annabelle 0]

no way the twins are dumb enough to keep santana. actually, maybe.

 

i think santana will end up with the angels.

 

the dodgers won't make any big moves. and rightfully so, they should sit on their prospects....unless they can get someone noteworthy for andre ethier and andy laroche. i'd hold onto the rest. in fact, i'd make big strides to get rid of those two. delwyn young can fill in for ethier, and i don't think the dodgers have high hopes for laroche anymore.

[Annabelle 0]

dontrelle had one bad year after looking like a cy young candidate for the previous three? come on, fellas. no one knows if he was injured or fatigued or whatever. i don't think its time for us to say miller is better than willis now. i watched miller a lot, he's good right now but not great. he has one pitch. a fastball. not exactly a great tool set, yet. in the end, i do believe miller will be the better pitcher. but not right now.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

The Twins might be getting a little greedy here.

 

 

I don't think they are being greedy. The best offer out there is Lester, Crisp, Lowrie and Masterson (or some variation close in terms of talent). Given their organizational needs, it slightly beats the Yankees offer and as far as we know, anything put up by the LA teams.

 

However, they don't have to trade Santana. If next year turns out poorly, they could still get a decent package at the deadline (probably not as anything out there now), but if they are competitive and make the playoffs, the added revenue might be enough to offset whatever they lost in terms of trade commodities.

 

Santana is the best pitcher in baseball. Unless they think that they absolutely must trade Santana, there is no need to take a deal just because it is the best one out there.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

dontrelle had one bad year after looking like a cy young candidate for the previous three? come on, fellas. no one knows if he was injured or fatigued or whatever. i don't think its time for us to say miller is better than willis now. i watched miller a lot, he's good right now but not great. he has one pitch. a fastball. not exactly a great tool set, yet. in the end, i do believe miller will be the better pitcher. but not right now.

 

 

Over the past three years:

 

HR:

11, 21, 29

 

BB:

55, 83, 87

 

SO:

170, 160, 146

 

HBP:

8, 19, 14

 

INNINGS:

236, 223, 205

 

The biggest problem with Willis is that he has lost his control. The ERA has gone up because of the defense, but that doesn't explain the poor K/BB numbers. Maybe he can regain his focus with a good pitching coach, but the underlying peripheral numbers suggest that he's lost whateve made him special early in his career. I think it's the abuse he took as a young pitcher.

 

It might be a stretch to call Miller better now, but the evidence shows them going in opposite directions. Given their respective competition, I expect Miller to put up better numbers this year.

[Guest RyechnaiaSobaka]

The Twins might be getting a little greedy here.

 

 

I don't think they are being greedy. The best offer out there is Lester, Crisp, Lowrie and Masterson (or some variation close in terms of talent). Given their organizational needs, it slightly beats the Yankees offer and as far as we know, anything put up by the LA teams.

 

However, they don't have to trade Santana. If next year turns out poorly, they could still get a decent package at the deadline (probably not as anything out there now), but if they are competitive and make the playoffs, the added revenue might be enough to offset whatever they lost in terms of trade commodities.

 

Santana is the best pitcher in baseball. Unless they think that they absolutely must trade Santana, there is no need to take a deal just because it is the best one out there.

 

From Rotoworld.com:

 

Twins manager Ron Gardenhire appears hopeful that his team will consider signing free agent David Eckstein.

 

"I've always had a lot of respect for him," Gardenhire said. "He catches the ball. He knows how to play. He's a proven winner." No mention of he "does the little things well?" Eckstein is still seeking a multiyear deal, and the Twins shouldn't be looking to tie up another position for more than a year or two during their rebuilding effort.

 

Detroit just acquired Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis. Cleveland is already awesome. Kansas City is improving, especially if they somehow get Fukudome and Andruw Jones (who reached out to them the other day). Have they signed Jose Guillen yet? If not, they will soon. The White Sox are the White Sox - who knows if they will be any good, though it's possible.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is - I don't think Minnesota is going to make the playoffs UNLESS they trade Santana and get a real good package of players for him.

 

Also, as I said before, what if he gets hurt? What if he struggles to start the season? They should trade him ASAP.

[Brett Favre 0]

Cabrera lost 15 pounds. He means business.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

The biggest problem with Willis is that he has lost his control. The ERA has gone up because of the defense, but that doesn't explain the poor K/BB numbers. Maybe he can regain his focus with a good pitching coach, but the underlying peripheral numbers suggest that he's lost whateve made him special early in his career. I think it's the abuse he took as a young pitcher.

 

I think there's a bit of a cause and effect link. It is not a stretch to say that a pitcher who gives up hits because of his defense will start nibbling the corners and walking more batters. His Cy Young season is probably unrealistic, but he certainly is better than he showed last year. I do think it is a stretch to call Andrew Miller a better pitcher than Willis. Miller hasn't really achieved anything yet above AA.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

I almost feel bad for Kenny Williams. He got pantsed on the Hunter signing, and now not only did he fail to get Cabrera as was heavily speculated, Cabrera + Willis are on a divisional rival. Now he's struggling to unload Joe Crede. Good thing he's an arrogant douchebag from a notoriously unprofessional organization or I'd have some sympathy.

 

You shouldn't feel bad for anybody who gives Ozzie Guillen a contract to manage his team.

 

Yeah who needs a World Series title when you can have a quiet mild-mannered manager instead, right?

[Guest My Pal, the Tortoise]

Brewers sign David Riske for three years. Not the worst bullpen addition. He can fill Linebrink's role, I suppose.

[snuffbox 0]

Can't fuck up as much as Turnbow.

[Guest My Pal, the Tortoise]

So how's their bullpen shaking out now? Raking, Mitch! Stetter!, Matt Wise in middle relief, David Riske setup, Derrick Turnbow closing?

 

I think that Linebrink trade is going to end up hurting them.

[Guest RyechnaiaSobaka]

I almost feel bad for Kenny Williams. He got pantsed on the Hunter signing, and now not only did he fail to get Cabrera as was heavily speculated, Cabrera + Willis are on a divisional rival. Now he's struggling to unload Joe Crede. Good thing he's an arrogant douchebag from a notoriously unprofessional organization or I'd have some sympathy.

 

You shouldn't feel bad for anybody who gives Ozzie Guillen a contract to manage his team.

 

Yeah who needs a World Series title when you can have a quiet mild-mannered manager instead, right?

 

How many runs did Ozzie Guillen score in their World Series-winning season?

How many strikeouts did he record as a pitcher in their World Series-winning season?

 

The White Sox won because of their players, the people who play baseball. Mainly I'm referring to their five starting pitchers, plus Neal Cotts and Cliff Politte. If Ozzie Guillen had anything to do with his team's performance that season, I am sure it was negative because he is an idiot and does things like try to put Juan Uribe at the top of his lineup.

 

Also, if you want to hitch your wagon to a berserk bigot, that's your call.

 

Personally, I like Billy Beane's strategy with managers. He knows they don't really matter unless they're doing something incredibly stupid, but people pay an inordinate amount of attention to them. So that's why he hired Art Howe, because he looked the part of a manager but didn't do much of anything.

[Guest My Pal, the Tortoise]

Hahahah, Cliff Politte. Has Mephistopheles collected on that one yet?

[Guest RyechnaiaSobaka]

Hahahah, Cliff Politte. Has Mephistopheles collected on that one yet?

 

You know how it is. He was silly good that year. I'm sure it was Ozzie's doing.

[Guest My Pal, the Tortoise]

God, Neal Cotts, too. What's his sorry ass doing now, rotting in Des Moines? I predict Bobby Jenks has a grabber in eight months.

 

Actually with White Sox pitchers, you have to thump your chest and boast about Don Cooper, the greatest pitching coach to ever walk the planet. Ozzie only gets credit for instilling the fire and the passion.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

I will agree that managers are given too much credit for things, but that wasn't my point. If you're a White Sox fan, which you're clearly not, who would you rather have, Jerry Manuel who was a mild-mannered guy and was quiet and just did his thing and did not rile up reporters or anything like that, and produce losing or average seasons OR Ozzie Guillen who is loud, abrasive, somewhat abusive to people, yet produces a World Series title for the south side Chicago (and the only title long time surviving Cubs fans will ever see as well)? It's silly to begrudge an organization for rewarding a championship manager with patience while he flames out (which they certainly couldn't foresee at the time). Kenny Williams is just as big an idiot as Ozzie Guillen is anyways, so the problem extends beyond who's screaming in the dugout at players.

[Guest My Pal, the Tortoise]

I'd rather have Terry Bevington.

[Guest RyechnaiaSobaka]

I will agree that managers are given too much credit for things, but that wasn't my point. If you're a White Sox fan, which you're clearly not, who would you rather have, Jerry Manuel who was a mild-mannered guy and was quiet and just did his thing and did not rile up reporters or anything like that, and produce losing or average seasons OR Ozzie Guillen who is loud, abrasive, somewhat abusive to people, yet produces a World Series title for the south side Chicago (and the only title long time surviving Cubs fans will ever see as well)? It's silly to begrudge an organization for rewarding a championship manager with patience while he flames out (which they certainly couldn't foresee at the time). Kenny Williams is just as big an idiot as Ozzie Guillen is anyways, so the problem extends beyond who's screaming in the dugout at players.

 

Ozzie Guillen did not produce a World Series title.

 

Ozzie Guillen played 0 games and had 0 AB that season.

He also pitched in 0.0 innings. He had 0 strikeouts.

 

If you want to give credit, give credit to the human beings who actually played baseball on the field for that team.

 

Managers can pretty much only screw things up. What's the difference between Grady Little and Terry Francona? Terry Francona would have pulled Pedro. That's the difference between Grady Little and Terry Francona, and why Terry's got two World Series rings and Grady Little is probably looking at becoming a roving catching instructor for the Cubs.

[Guest My Pal, the Tortoise]

Ozzie wasn't even Kenny's #1 choice. Reinsdorf went over Kenny's head and went with Ozzie because he didn't want to waste money on Cito Gaston. That would've been interesting.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

By the way Czech, I don't know how it is in South Side these days, but anyone who seriously thought Chicago White Sox was going to land Cabrera was kidding themselves. We have NO pieces to make it work.

[Guest RyechnaiaSobaka]

By the way Czech, I don't know how it is in South Side these days, but anyone who seriously thought Chicago White Sox was going to land Cabrera was kidding themselves. We have NO pieces to make it work.

 

The big whiff for the White Sox was on Torii Hunter.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Which I'm fine with. I didn't want Hunter anyways.