Watchmen

[Nightwing 0]

Yet you can't remember that the character's name is Nite Owl?

Sorry, I've been reading Trinity, so I have the Crime Syndicate of Amerika on the brain. But, to be honest, the look is far more important than the name.

[Nightwing 0]

I love the comic but the ending is sort of lame. Or at least the giant squid thing is. The rest of the ending is what's important.

I disagree. The Squid works because it's used as a means to bring humanity together, or at least that's what I always thought of it. Sure, it killed millions, but still. The thing is, the plot calls for an event that kills millions and causes Russia and the U.S. to sort their shit out. If they at least get that, I'll be satisfied.

 

 

Yes. The ending where millions of people die and humanity is brought together is important and cool and very memorable. The squid is a lame way to do it. I'm sure in the 80s it was different but looking at it today it just seems silly.

 

What do you want it to be, a giant spider? I mean, I don't see many other ways to really do it without making it "lamer".

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

I really don't think it seems silly. The point is that it's ghastly, fucked up, and beyond all human conception, an absolute gamechanger so incomprehensible that it makes all the other issues and conflicts of the day disappear. Anything more realistic is likely to undermine that. What I've read as the likely new ending is so much more typical and blase.

[The Niggardly King 0]

They can do a crossover and have Galactus appear to wreck havoc! Then The Thing and and Comedian have a talk while The Human Torch fucks around with Manhattan.

[Nightwing 0]

I think the idea they're using for the movie is way better than the squid. And why couldn't it have been normal aliens? Why a fucking intergalactic kraken?

 

Because "real" aliens is not only relative, but would be harder to create a hoax around? What, are you going to put flying saucers or something? I mean, what is a "real" alien to you?

 

I never took the "intergalactic space kraken" as being wacky. Ozymandias didn't want an alien invasion, because the longer you try and put that on, the more time people are going to look at it and examine it. What he created was more akin to a natural disaster; sudden, horrifying, and done in one shot. To me, it makes a lot more sense.

[2GOLD 0]

I agree, a giant space squid showing up didn't come off as wacky to me. It was just one of those things that made perfect sense for what he was going with. Granted with all the time and effort he put in and I would have thought he could have come up with something better but it did make sense. Sudden, shocking, one time shot kinda deal.

 

Besides the real ending of it all still better be

the revealing of the journal that throws the world into mass chaos

or it's all for nothing anyway.

[Nighthawk 0]

Giant space squid/half New York dead to me would be many times more disturbing than something more "realistic". The surreal aspect of it would chill me, very H.P. Lovecraft.

[Nightwing 0]

I still find the concept of a "realistic" alien to be at odds with "real life" as we know it.

[Nighthawk 0]

Think of it as "expected" instead of "realistic".

[Twisted Intestine 0]

Yeah, ViciousFish said "normal" aliens but you mis-quoted him as saying "real".

[Nightwing 0]

"Real", "normal", what's the difference? I don't see how you can judge one alien to be "normal" and another "not".

[Anakin Flair 0]

I think the idea they're using for the movie is way better than the squid. And why couldn't it have been normal aliens? Why a fucking intergalactic kraken?

 

 

Could be worse. They could have used Starro.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

This idea is fine...and will work really well as long as Dr. Manhattan goes along with it after finding out. If he doesn't...it ruins most of what I loved about the book.

[Nighthawk 0]

"Real", "normal", what's the difference? I don't see how you can judge one alien to be "normal" and another "not".

 

Normal based on the expected idea of aliens given to us by popular media (and, not for nothing, supposed real testimonials of alien encounters), ie Grays and the like.

[Jingus 0]

half New York dead

I wonder if secretly that's one big reason why they fiddled with the ending. I dunno how audiences today would react to a massive terrorist-ish attack on NYC that kills millions of people but is ultimately kind of portrayed as a heroic and justified action. Well, from the spoilers I've seen apparently millions of people are gonna die anyway, but I could easily see them pussing out on something specifically centered around New York.

[2GOLD 0]

half New York dead

I wonder if secretly that's one big reason why they fiddled with the ending. I dunno how audiences today would react to a massive terrorist-ish attack on NYC that kills millions of people but is ultimately kind of portrayed as a heroic and justified action. Well, from the spoilers I've seen apparently millions of people are gonna die anyway, but I could easily see them pussing out on something specifically centered around New York.

 

Which makes even less sense since it's not even in this timeline. It's not like this movie is based in the 9/11 time line, hell communism is still rolling along and kicking ass. Unless THAT is restructured as well. That's why they should just go with the giant squid. Because unless people in NYC are worried that the terrorist of today are going to get the ability to drop a big fucking squid on the city, I think it's a safe bet they can handle that ending.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

You guys are misreading the whole 'changing the ending' thing... they changed the method/weapon (the SQUID to something else), they didn't change the carnage of the ending (and yes from what I hear they added more carnage)

[Jingus 0]

Which makes even less sense since it's not even in this timeline. It's not like this movie is based in the 9/11 time line, hell communism is still rolling along and kicking ass. Unless THAT is restructured as well. That's why they should just go with the giant squid. Because unless people in NYC are worried that the terrorist of today are going to get the ability to drop a big fucking squid on the city, I think it's a safe bet they can handle that ending.

It doesn't matter that it's an alternate timeline. That has nothing to do with anything. Technically, every fictional movie ever is in an alternate universe since it's depicting stuff that never really happened.

 

My point is, the ending of the book Watchmen involved a violent attack on New York City, for the purpose of causing panic and terror, which left many many innocent people dead. That's a plot point with a hell of a lot more loaded symbolic meaning now than it was when it was first written in the 80s. Especially since the story takes the point of view that the mass death of innocent people was a necessary if not heroic act. You don't see how some people might get upset about that kind of thing? I mean, there have been plenty of movies out there which caused plenty of controversy over much less sensitive material. Remember people whining over any religious movie ever released just because it didn't exactly match their views on said religion? Or any popular movie featuring gay people, because the right wing don't take kindly to their type? Meanwhile, here we have a story which could theoretically be interpreted as saying that a 9/11-ish attack could be a good thing, and it wouldn't be that much of a stretch since that kinda is what it's implying. You don't see how that might ruffle some people's feathers?

[Nighthawk 0]

Nobody cares about 9/11 anymore.

[DarKnight 0]

Nobody cares about 9/11 anymore.

 

I agree. Can't we all just move on from the whole "terrorist paranoia" stage?

[Jingus 0]

Not anytime soon. Witness how often it's referenced in political speeches from both sides, movies made about it, it taking over the news every anniversary, etcetera. Sure seems like a lot of people still care about it. Not necessarily the same demographic who would go to a comic book movie, maybe. But like I said, there have been big controversies over movies with much less possibly controversial material than this. Not saying it will happen, but it might, and the fact that the filmmakers apparently changed the finale from NYC alone to multiple cities sorta implies that they thought that too.

[AmericanDragon 0]

You guys are misreading the whole 'changing the ending' thing... they changed the method/weapon (the SQUID to something else), they didn't change the carnage of the ending (and yes from what I hear they added more carnage)

 

The test screening in Oregon showed bloodless explosions going off in various cities. Just because they expanded the attack to more cities doesn't mean they added more carnage.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

Here's another problem I have with the new ending, if it is indeed the same that metroman posted earlier and that plenty of sites have suggested. I'll put it in spoilers since it's unique to the movie, I guess.

 

If Ozymandias' new plan is to make it look like Dr. Manhattan blew up a bunch of cities, how does that help? If Manhattan's still the American superman, doesn't that not unite the world at all? It's too fraught with weird political stuff, which is exactly what Ozymandias is trying to overcome in the original comic.

[cd213 0]

Nobody cares about 9/11 anymore.

 

As someone that lives in New York, I can tell you that people are never going to stop caring about 9/11. I agree that people need to stop bitching about NY and violence in movies that take place in NY, but it's not going to change.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

What do you want it to be, a giant spider? I mean, I don't see many other ways to really do it without making it "lamer".

 

Dunno if you're looking for spoilers or not but the movie's replacement for the squid is considerably less lame and makes sense in the context of the story.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

Here's another problem I have with the new ending, if it is indeed the same that metroman posted earlier and that plenty of sites have suggested. I'll put it in spoilers since it's unique to the movie, I guess.

 

If Ozymandias' new plan is to make it look like Dr. Manhattan blew up a bunch of cities, how does that help? If Manhattan's still the American superman, doesn't that not unite the world at all? It's too fraught with weird political stuff, which is exactly what Ozymandias is trying to overcome in the original comic.

 

Um.

 

Dr. Manhatten leaves the United States and Earth in general. He's no longer the American superman at that point. In fact, his departure escalates the doomsday clock with the USSR

[The Amazing Rando 0]

Which makes even less sense since it's not even in this timeline. It's not like this movie is based in the 9/11 time line, hell communism is still rolling along and kicking ass. Unless THAT is restructured as well. That's why they should just go with the giant squid. Because unless people in NYC are worried that the terrorist of today are going to get the ability to drop a big fucking squid on the city, I think it's a safe bet they can handle that ending.

It doesn't matter that it's an alternate timeline. That has nothing to do with anything. Technically, every fictional movie ever is in an alternate universe since it's depicting stuff that never really happened.

 

My point is, the ending of the book Watchmen involved a violent attack on New York City, for the purpose of causing panic and terror, which left many many innocent people dead. That's a plot point with a hell of a lot more loaded symbolic meaning now than it was when it was first written in the 80s. Especially since the story takes the point of view that the mass death of innocent people was a necessary if not heroic act. You don't see how some people might get upset about that kind of thing? I mean, there have been plenty of movies out there which caused plenty of controversy over much less sensitive material. Remember people whining over any religious movie ever released just because it didn't exactly match their views on said religion? Or any popular movie featuring gay people, because the right wing don't take kindly to their type? Meanwhile, here we have a story which could theoretically be interpreted as saying that a 9/11-ish attack could be a good thing, and it wouldn't be that much of a stretch since that kinda is what it's implying. You don't see how that might ruffle some people's feathers?

 

 

...but, see, that is THE STORY. The entire reason fans have been clamoring to see a live action film about Watchmen is the fact that it's a damn good story, it's unique, and has a very memorable ending. It has nothing to do with any terrorist attack that has happened or ever will happen on any city in the world. I mean, fuck, are they never ever going to show the film Independence Day ever again because New York got fucked up?

 

Why even MAKE this film if they are going to change the ending? When I was first told to go out and find the book and read it the ending was something that was incredibly hyped to me going in. "You just have to go read it, it's awesome!" and indeed, it was a great ending. The story doesn't make sense otherwise and, unlike Batman, Superman, Spiderman, Fantastic Four, or anything else, there is NO LEEWAY with this story. You can't just change the entire ending. All the other comic book movies have a forty or so year continuity that, depending on the year, is vastly different from some other year based on a current writer's intentions. This is ONE book (or, well, a series of books) that has nothing to do with anything else before or after it. They spent so much time trying to hype this thing as how true it was going to be to it's comic-form, this would completely undo that.

 

If people want to boycott the film, fine, it will still make a lion's share of profit through the fans of the original story and on DVD, and if the book wasn't selling well before it'll surely bring in new people that will go out and get that, too.

[Nighthawk 0]

I agree that people need to stop bitching about NY and violence in movies that take place in NY, but it's not going to change.

 

Seriously? Of course it's going to change. It's like saying nobody cares about the Holocaust anymore... sure, they care, but they don't care care.

When I say "nobody" of course I don't literally mean nobody, you guys.

 

So to reiterate, nobody care about 9/11.

[Jingus 0]

Why even MAKE this film if they are going to change the ending?

A question which would have also been valid about the several other movie adaptations of Alan Moore's work, every single one of which had the ending at least somewhat changed. It's just what Hollywood does, they can't help it.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

Here's another problem I have with the new ending, if it is indeed the same that metroman posted earlier and that plenty of sites have suggested. I'll put it in spoilers since it's unique to the movie, I guess.

 

If Ozymandias' new plan is to make it look like Dr. Manhattan blew up a bunch of cities, how does that help? If Manhattan's still the American superman, doesn't that not unite the world at all? It's too fraught with weird political stuff, which is exactly what Ozymandias is trying to overcome in the original comic.

 

Um.

 

Dr. Manhatten leaves the United States and Earth in general. He's no longer the American superman at that point. In fact, his departure escalates the doomsday clock with the USSR

Yes, but he's still an American icon in the story far more than he is that of any other nation. "This guy who used to win wars for America just killed millions of people" still leaves the window wide open for the rest of the world to toss a huge heap of blame on the Americans, who nurtured and used him for so long. Seems to be a much bigger risk of blowback than you get with a Lovecraftian space menace.

 

I'm also interested to see how Snyder handles the explanation of the Comedian's complete breakdown. While I know it's Veidt's plan in general that sends him off the deep end, I always thought the macabre absurdity of what he'd seen in construction was a big part of it. A bunch of guys figuring out how to make explosions blue is less shake-you-to-your-core, I think.