Let's Talk About Wrestlemania 2

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Since it is currently airing on 24/7 and we've seen the TNT buildup on that program, I figured this show deserved its own thread. I'm giving the show a fresh look and I'll have more thoughts later. From what I've seen of the hype it's essentially a six match show.

 

Hogan-Bundy (Cage)

NFL/Wrestler Battle Royal

Bulldogs/Dream Team (Tag Title)

Savage/George Steele (IC Title)

JYD/Santana vs. Funks

Mr. T/Roddy Piper (Boxing)

 

Those were the matches with some kind of backstory. The other matches are essentially filler material, maybe mentioned beforehand but not given a lot of buildup. Each segment has two hype matches and two filler matches.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Although my wrestling viewing habits didn't fully evolve until sometime in 1987, this is the first show I distinctly remember watching as a kid. Well, I do remember watching Savages I-C title win on tape, but I think that I saw that after watching this show. But I digress. Hogan-Bundy seemed like the biggest thing in the world to me when I was four years old and therefore I have a soft spot for this show, even if I can't remember anything else that happened.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Some of the stuff like Hogan/Bundy is certainly passable for a big show. The two tag team matches were pretty good, in the three star range. The two biggest problems were first, that the three-location format really led to a disjointed show. Second, the boxing match was really, really awful.

 

I'm about finished watching the New York segment. The Orndorff/Muraco match was the best on the card but the non-finish pissed off the crowd. Savage/Steele was a bad match even by their standards. (I disagree that another match would've been suitable though, it was a memorable feud.) Jake Roberts/George Wells was just a showcase for the Snake. And the boxing match is perhaps the worst Wrestlemania match ever.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

I am a firm believer that one's taste for wrestling is mostly influenced by the type and style they grew up watching. I know a lot of people bitch about the lack of quality and workrate in the matches at these mid-80s shows, but to me it's just normal. I've always been a guy who preferred big face wins and angles over match quality and it's because of things like Wrestlemania 2. To me, a show doesn't feel the same without a face getting the win over a monster heel. My entire childhood experience was Hogan beating a big fat fuck on the biggest shows of the year.

 

It's probably why I feel Big Show was the most underpushed wrestler this decade while most were clamoring for Jericho or RVD. Hell, I think Matt Morgan should have been a star.

[Black Lushus 0]

I don't know if Big Show is so much underpushed as it is these bookers just plain don't know what to do with him. Is he good? Is He bad? Is he an unstoppable beast? Is he a big pussy? How do we properly book this guy???

[Bruiser Chong 0]

The three-venue set-up make this show feel even more lackluster than it was. The WWF had some solid talent at this time, but everything is spread so thin to fill the three locations that the results feel diluted. Having celebrities provide color commentary is one of the poorest decisions made among the early Wrestlemanias. At least with the likes of a Monsoon/Ventura tandem, the viewer is likely going to get something to divert their attention from the crappy in-ring happenings. Not the case here. When you realize how shitty some of these matches are, you've got Susan St. James there accentuating it.

 

I haven't seen this show in years, but watched it fairly often as a child. I recall mostly watching the Chicago portion more times than not; my memories of the New York portion are so hazy that I felt as if I was watching the opener for the first time just now. Speaking of the opener, way to kick off your biggest show of the year. A non-finish.

 

One final gripe is that things seem rushed, at least in the early going. I'm not sure I've ever seen the participants of the next match in the ring before the result of the previous match has been announced. That's one clusterfuck with Steele coming into the ring, them cutting to a Mr. T promo and then have Fink giving the result of the previous match before the interview's over.

[King Kamala 0]

Even as a mark I thought this show was kind of shitty but it always has had a certain charm to me. It's hard to explain. I'm not sure if the best match of the night breaks past the *** barrier but the show is immensely watchable.

 

Unfortunately I used this show to introduce my best friend to wrestling. He may have not liked wrestling even if I introduced him by showing a really good tape but this show is probably a bad way to introduce non-viewers to wrestling.

 

Anyway, The New York segment is terrible and damn near ruins the whole show. That Susan St. James was awful, she made Art Donovan sound like Gordon Solie. The Chicago segment is really fun, Bulldogs-Dream Team is probably MOTN and as a battle royal mark, I've always loved the NFL-WWF battle royal. And The L.A. one is pretty good too with a solid JYD and Tito-Funks match and Steamboat carrying Hercules to a half-decent match.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Holding the show at three venues and bringing in celebrity announcers is one of those ideas that probably seemed really good on paper until they actually tried to put it in practice. I think without the hindsight of seeing this show's failures it seems like a novel concept.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

As an aside, I've got the Wrestling Observers from before and after this show, so I'll post them in this folder within the next few days.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Yeah, I kind of remember seeing Observer's from the era being posted last year (and seeing how much Meltzer hated the Fed's style and Hogan at the time). We were left with a cliffhanger as to why Ventura vs. Sammartino couldn't happen. Should be good though, looking forward to it Bruiser.

[Guest BlueStang302]

I think 2 is one of the weaker Wrestlemanias, although I do like it for the nostalgia.

 

- Alot of the matches were too short, and very unsatisfying.

Orndorff/Muraco could have had a great match, but had a countout after about 4 minutes. Even the fans there knew it was bullshit, and let them know.

 

Moolah/Velvet was less than a minute, and ended with Velvet's foot on the ropes.

 

Kirshner/Volkoff was also less than a minute.

 

Those two matches made very little sense to me.

 

The commenting was mostly terrible. Susan St. James, Elvira were both terrible.

 

I thought having Steele kick out of Macho's elbowdrop was a strange decision.

 

Good stuff:

The Bulldogs/Valentine & Beefcake match was awesome.

 

The Funks against JYD/Tito was also very good, and even included a table spot (in 1986!).

 

Uncle Elmer/Adonis wasn't a great match by any means, but I enjoyed it. Adonis flies around the ring and Elmer is so bad it's funny. He even falls on his ass once after throwing a punch

 

The cage match was pretty good.

 

 

Overall, I think an argument could be made that WM2 is the worst of all Wrestlemanias. Some would probably include 9, 15, and maybe 4 or 5 in the discussion. THe show felt fairly rushed and the production values was very different from today. The dichotomy between Wm2 and Wm3 is unreal. I don't worry much the sound quality/picture quality but I thought the guest announcers and rushed matches hurt the quality of the show. The three location setup required each location to have their "fair share" of matches and their own main event, even if alot of the matches were 1 or 2 minutes long. I think the show would have much better if a few of the matches were cut and more time given to Orndorff/Muraco.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Moolah/Velvet was less than a minute, and ended with Velvet's foot on the ropes.

 

Kirshner/Volkoff was also less than a minute.

 

Those two matches made very little sense to me.

 

I've heard rumblings that Moolah/McIntyre ended early due to McIntyre's ring attire coming loose. She constantly adjusts the straps and the match not only ends quickly, but strangely. That would make a lot of sense.

[cabbageboy 0]

There's some decent stuff on WM 2. The Bulldogs/Dream Team match is terrific and definitely non formula, since it doesn't rely on the played out face in peril or double teaming spots. Funks vs. JYD/Tito is a decent match, the battle royale is fun for what it is, and Hogan/Bundy is a typical Hogan match of the time period (as in fun if you like this stuff).

[Bruiser Chong 0]

- Am I crazy, or does George Steele proclaim "bullshit" after Savage pins him?

 

- If you eliminate the phrases "uh oh" and "come on," Vince is more or less doing solo commentary.

 

- There are more celebrities in the technical sense for Wrestlemania 2 than any other. Too bad most fall into the "who?" or "where are they now?" categories.

 

- The boxing match is indeed one of the worst matches to ever grace a Wrestlemania card. These guys are gassed almost immediately, which leads to a lot of weak hits and both participants hunched over.

 

- Heel Randy Savage is irritating most of the time as far as his in-ring work goes. Yeah, the stalling thing drew heat, but it also killed any momentum those matches had and he tended to dry that particular well out.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

nevermind

[Frankie Williams 0]

WrestleMania 2 had a weird feel to it. I think one of the reasons was that I took place on a Monday night.

 

As a kid of course, I believed the hype WM 2 being the greatest event of all time. I didnt get to see it until a couple weeks after it happened, and even as a 14 year old kid I thought it sucked after I saw it.

 

I remember WM 2 for many things:

 

I know its 22 years ago but the production value was horrible. It was a very dark event.

 

Hearing Howard Finkle announce the result of the Orndorff/Muraco match during a Mr. T promo.

 

The fans turning on T and cheering Piper.

 

The orange mats around the ring in Chicago,

 

Jesse Ventura's mic sounding like a crappy phone.

 

Lee Marshall being the ring announcer in L.A.

 

The ref in the womans title match seemingly forgetting his ref gear at home and wearing a weird white shirt.

 

Andre the Giant and Danny Spivey wearing matching tights and boots.

 

The ring in Chicago being smaller than usual.

 

Clara Peller screaming Wheres the Beef, but no one hearing it because she was waving her mic all over the place.

 

Lord Alfred Hayes calling the Main Event.

 

Susan St. James horrid commentary: "Uh oh. That looks like a challenge to me. Watch this"

 

Chet Coppick repeating everyones name twice as he introduced them ala Mr Kennedy.

 

Refrigerator Perry wearing two different boots.

 

But hey.....we got to see Uncle Elmer vs. Adrian Adoins.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

That may well have been the best match of Elmer's career.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I get the impression that if you ran this card at one venue, changed up the commentary (Gorilla and Jesse only) and helped the production values, it would come off much better.

[Frankie Williams 0]

I get the impression that if you ran this card at one venue, changed up the commentary (Gorilla and Jesse only) and helped the production values, it would come off much better.

 

I agree but I also would have changed the card up.

 

Im not into fantasy, but this is how I would have booked WM 2:

 

Roddy Piper vs Paul Orndorff

 

Randy Savage vs. Tito Santana

 

JYD vs Terry Funk

 

Magnificent Muraco vs. Ricky Steamboat

 

George Steele vs Adrian Adonis (I know this match would have sucked but I think the fans would have eaten it up)

 

The Hart Foundation vs the Killer Bees (just to get another tag match on the card)

 

I would have kept the main event, tag title match and battle royal the same.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I'd leave most of the card intact. I would absolutely turf the boxing match and maybe run a Piper/Orndorff blowoff. Perhaps find a way to get Bob Orton a match on the card as well, a wrestler of his caliber has something to contribute.

[PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0]

The ref in the womans title match seemingly forgetting his ref gear at home and wearing a weird white shirt.

This occurred before professional wrestling was deregulated in the state of Illinois, and referees sanctioned by the state (who had to don their standard uniform) were, by law, required to officiate X amount of matches per card. This went on well into the nineties, as I remember seeing these guys pop up at house shows as well, with pretty much all of them looking like they were lost out there.

 

Just popped my old VHS master in. I think that if you put it under one roof then the card would have been even more forgettable. At least this card is unique. Instead of being the card between WrestleMania and WrestleMania III, it actually stands out. I kinda like the chaos, myself, though some of these matches are quite puzzling (Jake the Snake vs. George Wells? Was Johnny Rodz injured or something?).

 

I'll post more when I see more. So far, the production is kinda sucky, even for 1986.

[Fartsauce 0]

The celebrity commentary just killed this show for me. It still remains one of the very few WWF(E) events i've never watched from start to finish.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

I was hoping seeing all the TNT build for the show would make it more entertaining. No go. For all the hype this show got, it comes off as such a haphazardly rushed production. I'll give them a break and say some of us are probably too much given that it's a Wrestlemania; but I think most will agree that Mania mystique isn't really there until the 1987 incarnation. I consider the first two test runs that have the objective of figuring out what does and doesn't work. Judging by future cards, they learned their lesson about having the celebrities so involved and throwing in total "what the hell" matches.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

My ratings:

 

Muraco/Orndorff: **

Savage/Steele: DUD

Roberts/Welles: *

Mr. T/Piper: -**

 

Moolah/McIntyre: DUD

Kirschner/Volkoff: DUD

Battle Royal: ***

Bulldogs/Dream Team: ***1/2

 

Steamboat/Hercules: **1/2

Adonis/Elmer: *1/2

Funks/Santana-JYD: ***

Hogan/Bundy: **

[PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0]

Adonis/Elmer: *1/2

 

 

Adonis bumped his ass off in that match. I'd rate it at least ** 3/4 minimum.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Is it me or are the rings smaller at Mania 2?

[Bruiser Chong 0]

The one in Chicago is definitely smaller. The other two look normal.

 

- I never noticed Dynamite Kid signaling the finish by repeatedly tapping the top of his head while positioning himself on the second rope.

 

- Adonis and Elmer's a guilty pleasure of mine. It's brief and there isn't a shred of offense from Elmer that Adonis doesn't oversell.

 

- Alfred Hayes is still the worst commentator to ever find steady work.

 

One of Wrestlemania 2's problems is the three venues. It's difficult to settle in when there's a shift in location every hour or so. Add in that the arenas in New York and L.A. just don't look very extravagant and there's little of that Wrestlemania mystique present. Something about L.A. is especially jarring. I don't know if it's the heavy lighting around ringside contrasted with the darkness in the rest of the arena, Elvira doing commentary or Uncle Elmer appearing at a Wrestlemania, but the L.A. portion feels like some bizarro world.

[Guest]

They're both smaller than the typical WWF ring, at least that's how it appeared to me. I don't think the problem is necessarily with the three venues, but rather the fact that once venues are switched, they're built up like miniature cards. After each "main event" in one place, you go right back to the lower card for a few matches. That sucks.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Adonis/Elmer: *1/2

 

 

Adonis bumped his ass off in that match. I'd rate it at least ** 3/4 minimum.

I think I'm being generous with the rating, as far as I know most people rate it a dud (or worse). Adonis did make the match, and as I said it was likely Elmer's greatest career match. (Though he may have done better in the 1970s under a different gimmick.)

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

- Alfred Hayes is still the worst commentator to ever find steady work.

 

I've heard much worse. Check out a promotion like Herb Abrams' UWF or any promotion that lucked its way onto national tv.