WWE Raw (8/18/2008)

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Sorry but 24/7 is serious business.

[pochorenella 0]

And Rey was getting squashed and pinned clean in non-title matches by Khali and Mark Henry. How is this anything like that? Even with the Batista/Kane stuff he would end up on the mat, but he would never actually get pinned. Rey would kill for the booking of CM Punk so far.

 

Other than beating JBL, he ends pretty much every show on his back...how is that not like Rey Mysterio again?

 

Because he wins his matches. Well...he's won most. I can only think of two in which he's actually been pinned: The handicap match (odds against him, obviously), and tonight, which was an 'iffy' finish at best.

IIRC Rey as World Champ in a less than 2 month span got pinned clean, with ZERO interference, by people like Kane, Khali, Mark Henry, and Rob Van Dam, and also went to a shitty draw with Sabu on the ONS PPV. Like JPop said, Punk's only lost a handicap match and yesterday's match which had interference from Cade which Jericho (a really hot heel right now) capitalized on.

 

Yeah, I'll say there's a big difference, Lushus.

[cd213 0]

If anything, I would compare Punk's title reign to either Jericho's title run, both are not the focal point of the shows, or Angle's first run. I think what should happen is Punk loses the title to Batista, then he turns heel. Punk can ask for a rematch since Batista never beat him in the pervious meetings, and have Batista win by pinning someone else. Punk can then chase the belt saying he is the real champion.

[cabbageboy 0]

I actually recall liking Rey/Sabu from ONS until the ultra goofy finish. Anyway the reason Punk is drawing comparisons to Rey is that both guys are smaller than most of their opponents and they have lost non title matches. Rey obviously more than Punk so far, but the thing is this is no way to book a face champ. A world champ losing non title matches is a heel style of booking, kind of like Ric Flair in the NWA.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

If anything, I would compare Punk's title reign to either Jericho's title run, both are not the focal point of the shows, or Angle's first run. I think what should happen is Punk loses the title to Batista, then he turns heel. Punk can ask for a rematch since Batista never beat him in the pervious meetings, and have Batista win by pinning someone else. Punk can then chase the belt saying he is the real champion.

 

With the scramble, I'd expect Punk to lose the belt somehow, then he wins it back at some point during the match, only for someone like Batista or Cena to win it in the closing minutes.

[RedJed 0]

I actually recall liking Rey/Sabu from ONS until the ultra goofy finish. Anyway the reason Punk is drawing comparisons to Rey is that both guys are smaller than most of their opponents and they have lost non title matches. Rey obviously more than Punk so far, but the thing is this is no way to book a face champ. A world champ losing non title matches is a heel style of booking, kind of like Ric Flair in the NWA.

 

I think there is alot of overanalysing that match last night. Its not like Jericho won clean......I don't see the big deal. Its either giving him a reason to be added to the title match at the next ppv, or otherwise likely put him in line for the next major title shot down the road. They're just establishing him as a title contender, and I don't see how that made Punk look shitty at all really. It's typical booking, it's not like we havent seen this before many times over, in both the champion being a face or a heel.

 

And they just got done making a point that Punk has credibility from the JBL program, so, again, let's not freak out over relatively nothing here.

[Brett Favre 0]

Punk isn't a clear cut main eventer. He needs all the wins he can get.

[pochorenella 0]

I actually recall liking Rey/Sabu from ONS until the ultra goofy finish.

Oh yes, the match itself was going pretty good. When I said a "shitty draw" I was referring to the finish only, sorry if I didn't make myself clearer. That finish didn't do Rey any favors for his Title reign either, that was my point.

[RedJed 0]

Punk isn't a clear cut main eventer. He needs all the wins he can get.

 

Clear cut? He's world champ, man. And that was the whole f'n point of the JBL feud, to show that he IS.

[Brett Favre 0]

Yep. That's why he got to main event Summerslam.

 

I thought they were trying to get him to the levels of Cena, HHH, Taker, Edge, Batista, and Orton. But if that's not their intention, then sure, he can be a champ that gets to midcard big PPVs.

[RedJed 0]

Yep. That's why he got to main event Summerslam.

 

I thought they were trying to get him to the levels of Cena, HHH, Taker, Edge, Batista, and Orton. But if that's not their intention, then sure, he can be a champ that gets to midcard big PPVs.

 

I think it takes more than a few months as champ to get to those levels.

 

And bitching that he didn't "main event" SummerSlam is ridiculous. Neither did HHH, neither really did Cena OR Batista. Its a moot point. The show was headlined by a gimmick.

[Brett Favre 0]

Well, you have to start somewhere. So because he can't get at the level in a couple months, he should job in non-title matches? That makes no sense.

 

The goal is to get him to a level where he will main event almost every pay per view. As much as you'd like to think that he's a main eventer, he's certainly not at that level.

[RedJed 0]

Well, you have to start somewhere. So because he can't get at the level in a couple months, he should job in non-title matches? That makes no sense.

 

The goal is to get him to a level where he will main event almost every pay per view. As much as you'd like to think that he's a main eventer, he's certainly not at that level.

 

NOBODY can get to the level you are expecting in a few months.

 

And doing one screwjob non-title finish to Jericho isn't burying the guy at all, give me a break. Its called establishing a contender to his title down the road, nothing more nothing less. Building a substance for an upcoming program.

 

Let me try to use another example here.

 

So since Regal beat Punk in the KOTR tournament, but yet Punk got retribution in that Raw match that Regal returned, does that mean that initial loss to Regal shouldn't have ever happened?

 

They HAVE started somewhere, look at the JBL program. Punk was able to make a point there that he's not a "transitional paper champion" and it was clearly defined he did so.

 

You can't expect everything within a few months time.....so far they could do much worse with Punk's reign if you look at the (very short) Rey Mysterio run, as an example.

[SamoaRowe 0]

Cena didn't main event his first Summerslam as champion either. Hell, neither did Batista. They both took a backseat in 2005 to the Hogan/Michaels showdown.

[Brett Favre 0]

Well, you have to start somewhere. So because he can't get at the level in a couple months, he should job in non-title matches? That makes no sense.

 

The goal is to get him to a level where he will main event almost every pay per view. As much as you'd like to think that he's a main eventer, he's certainly not at that level.

NOBODY can get to the level you are expecting in a few months.

 

And doing one screwjob non-title finish to Jericho isn't burying the guy at all, give me a break. Its called establishing a contender to his title down the road, nothing more nothing less. Building a substance for an upcoming program.

 

Let me try to use another example here.

 

So since Regal beat Punk in the KOTR tournament, but yet Punk got retribution in that Raw match that Regal returned, does that mean that initial loss to Regal shouldn't have ever happened?

 

They HAVE started somewhere, look at the JBL program. Punk was able to make a point there that he's not a "transitional paper champion" and it was clearly defined he did so.

 

You can't expect everything within a few months time.....so far they could do much worse with Punk's reign if you look at the (very short) Rey Mysterio run, as an example.

 

Did you not see what I said? I never said he could get to that level in a few months, but you have to start somewhere. So just cause it can't be done in a few months, does that mean he should be jobbing in non-title matches? No. Like I said, you have to start somewhere.

 

Next, Punk wasn't champ when Regal beat him. Totally different circumstances. Not to mention that he was hurt in that last match.

 

And third, just cause it could be worse doesn't make it a good thing. If a champ can't win 2 matches in a row, wtf kind of champion is he? Cena is strong now because of all those superman wins he got a few years ago. Triple H kept beating Mick Foley to get established. CM Punk beats JBL, loses to Jericho, looks bad against Batista, and can't even score a pinfall on Kane. So no, I don't like the title reign sorry.

 

I didn't say he should have main evented Summerslam, I used it as a example as to where he is in the company, and he's certainly not a main eventer.

[SamoaRowe 0]

Punk didn't look bad at all in those matches with Batista. He looked impressive for a guy who was just starting to tangle with the main eventers. And personally, I don't think the casual fans are sitting around thinking "Wow, Punk is so weak because he lost to Jericho." They are more likely thinking "That damn Jericho had Cade interfere and stole the victory!"

[Brett Favre 0]

Dude needs wins.

 

Batista had like 2 wins against him, if it weren't for Kane.

 

You don't come off a big win against JBL and job the next night. Would you have booked it that way?

[SamoaRowe 0]

Personally, I wouldn't have booked Punk against Jericho last night, because neither guy should really be doing any big jobs right now, but I was satisfied in the finish that Punk had Jericho's number until Cade got involved.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Sorry for bringing the size argument, but considering where they wrestle, you are telling me you expected Punk to beat DAVE BATISTA clean? Vince would have to lose all control of WWE for that to happen.

[SamoaRowe 0]

When finally paired up against Batista, Punk didn't look as small in comparison as I thought he would. But hell, I really enjoyed Punk's match with Batista at the Great American Bash, and Punk didn't look bad at all in that match until afterwards when he posed with the belt.

[Breakdancingbatista 0]

I thought that Punk looked great against Batista, he was booked as being one step ahead for the entire match, granted he couldve done with a clean win but it still made its point that Punk is a big league player and can hang with the top dogs.

 

Then he gets a second extremley solid win over JBL to further establish him, I think he's in a good position right now and the scramble will be used to further his 'thinking mans champion' routine, whilst most likely setting up his next singles match.

 

The RAW match was bog standard booking in respect of the face getting screwed by an outside distraction and the heel gaining a cheap win. Now I expect the issue here is that Y2J and Punk wernt emrboiled in a feud so the win is slightly random. Sure, but it adds jeopardy to Punk's upcoming title defence AND puts Jericho into a top contenders spot.

 

Truthfully this loss hasnt hurt Punk, only added further interest and given him more odds to overcome, which a face always needs.

 

Moving on, can anbody else see Santino vs D'Lo vs Kofi happening at Unforgiven? I think this would be a sweet, sweet match and really get the ball rolling in the new look IC division.

 

 

[King Cucaracha 0]

Blah blah CM Punk.

 

The question everybody should be asking... does Adamle have x-ray vision? I mean, when he blew off Primo Colon and went running off to find Cena, there's no way he could have seen he'd walked in without looking through the interview set and two walls. Either whoever set up the shot is a moron or Adamle has super-powers. I hope it's the latter.

[2GOLD 0]

Blah blah CM Punk.

 

The question everybody should be asking... does Adamle have x-ray vision? I mean, when he blew off Primo Colon and went running off to find Cena, there's no way he could have seen he'd walked in without looking through the interview set and two walls. Either whoever set up the shot is a moron or Adamle has super-powers. I hope it's the latter.

 

Maybe he had a GPS installed in John Cena that vibrates when Cena is near. And there was only one direction he could be since Mike had been standing there all night.

 

 

[Mike wanna be 0]

What would be nice is explaining why the guy who put Michaels out and pinned CM Punk on RAW is not in the championship scramble, but the one man Punk has actually beaten (and twice, at that) in JBL is.

[King Cucaracha 0]

Because they're doing Jericho/Michaels at Unforgiven?

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Because Mike Adamle is a crazy GM!

 

Wait, he was just reading that announcement from Shane and Stephanie... maybe he'll be added next week? The scenario for Shawn / Jericho lends itself pretty poorly to have a match at Unforgiven. Had they rushed the build and had Michaels immediately renounce his decision to retire and attack Jericho, fine, but he's still sitting at home comforting his family waiting until "and then..." to happen. With 2 weeks until the PPV, they shouldn't just hastily add the match.

[Silence 0]

What would be nice is explaining why the guy who put Michaels out and pinned CM Punk on RAW is not in the championship scramble, but the one man Punk has actually beaten (and twice, at that) in JBL is.

 

I think JBL should have been replaced by Jericho myself.

[cabbageboy 0]

One thing that irked me last night (not greatly but a little) was the total no sell of titles by Mickie James and Kofi Kingston. Both of them came out cheering and jumping around like all was well in the world, never mind the fact that they both lost titles the night before in a ridiculous mixed tag. Kofi in particular should have been ultra pissed since he wasn't even beaten at all.

 

 

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Even with a short wall, Adamle should certainly see Cena walking by if he was coming directly in front of him to the side. No superpowers needed here, sorry folks!

[2GOLD 0]

 

They did give the reaction of both according to Michael Cole which apparently was, "Eh, I'll win it again, no big deal."

 

I'm thinking Jericho does get added to the scramble but HBK comes out, they brawl right out of the place and brawl Jericho out of the match. Probably would work better, unless they plan to let Punk get the win back and then Jericho loses to HBK. Of course that scenario would leave Jericho completely useless again.