Ben Berrnanke doesn't want you to take a raise this year*

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

CNN

 

NEW YORK (Fortune) -- With the price of practically everything jumping, you probably wouldn't mind getting a bigger paycheck.

 

But your employer isn't the only one who's unenthusiastic about that idea. Fed chief Ben Bernanke is counting on a weak labor market to keep employees from demanding wage hikes, which could in turn boost inflation. With unemployment rising and jobs moving overseas, you're probably not in the mood to push it anyway.

 

Im getting a raise because I took a new position. Fuck the economy, Im actually seemingly doing pretty well considering Ive done more this summer than Ive done in the past 2 or 3 summers while everyone else is whining and complaining about not doing anything. Its not bothering me..so yeah, screw you if my $1 raise adversely affects you in any way, I dont care.

 

*Does not apply to people making minimum wage who got a nice 70 cent raise this year and next year too! Shame on you for wrecking the economy if you take a raise that you had to work hard to earn while they get one for doing nothing.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

I don't know a great deal about economics, so I'm potentially setting things up to make things heated, and I'm probably beating a dead horse to a degree.

 

But this is the very basis of why I'm liberal; everything about Marvin's post, who I'm not attacking personally, struck me as selfish.

[BUTT 0]

Im getting a raise because I took a new position. Fuck the economy, Im actually seemingly doing pretty well considering Ive done more this summer than Ive done in the past 2 or 3 summers while everyone else is whining and complaining about not doing anything. Its not bothering me..so yeah, screw you if my $1 raise adversely affects you in any way, I dont care.

 

*Does not apply to people making minimum wage who got a nice 70 cent raise this year and next year too! Shame on you for wrecking the economy if you take a raise that you had to work hard to earn while they get one for doing nothing.

[At Home 0]

Shame on those people for ruining the economy? Come on. There are a lot of factors at play.

 

Edit: I just read that again. You are such a fucking piece of shit. People "whining and complaining?" ABOUT NOT HAVING AN INCOME? Fuck you.

 

RE: CG's "basis of me being liberal" post. I think economics and such is one area where I consider myself moderate to conservative. Take that whole variable rate loan scare. The loans were unfair, and caused a lot of people to go bankrupt. They weren't illegal, though. Nevertheless, a lot of people were calling for the government to help bail these people out.

 

I don't want me and my parents tax dollars to help these people out. There were much safer loan options, it was their fault for taking the loans no matter how you spin it, and even outlawing those kinds of loans are unfair because they don't allow the people who can afford those loans to take them. It's the responsibility for the lender to work these problems out, not my tax dollars. I don't really believe that they are the main/only cause for the recession, but the recession isn't the worst thing for us. One of the benefits of a recession is that inefficient businesses go bye-bye, and thus these lenders who give out dangerous loans will feel the pinch, and many of them will go under as a result of that.

 

Essentially, I feel that if people dig their own grave, they get to sit in it. I'm socially liberal in the sense that I'd like my tax dollars to go programs to help bring people out of terrible situations that they were born into instead. After all, you wouldn't let your tax dollars go to help gamblers, why let it go to people who gambled with shitty home loans? They, like a casino gambler, knew the risks from the beginning. Written in paper.

[PUT THAT DICK IN MY MOUTH! 0]

They, like a casino gambler, knew the risks from the beginning. Written in paper.

 

Theoretically, yeah. But in the real world lending agencies pushed these things on generally less-than-bright people while promising the world. Shit's called "predatory lending" for a reason, bro.

[At Home 0]

That's why they get to sit in their stew when people file for bankruptcy. The fact that these loans had wildly variable interest rates is their defining characteristics. If those people couldn't understand that, it's not my fault, and (to me) it's irresponsible to use federal money to bail these people out.

[PUT THAT DICK IN MY MOUTH! 0]

I'm not advocating that we bail out every single person that ever signed up for a stupid subprime loan, but I think sitting there going, "Well those people should have known what they were signing up for. Fuck 'em!" is awfully callous and really not very helpful. Again, a lot of people didn't know what they were getting into because finance shit is really kind of complicated and people who truly understand how it works typically aren't the ones targeted by predatory lenders. Again, though, simply bailing out the people who got bit by these loans isn't really going to fix anything, since doing so would do nothing to fix the deep-rooted structural issues in our economy that birthed this fiasco in the first place.

[At Home 0]

I don't care if it's callous or not, that's just where I consider myself to be more conservative or not. You can blame the subprime loan business (which is legitimate) and you can blame the people who sign for them (also equally as legitimate). Perhaps the threat of no federal help once you get in the red would prove to be a greater stimulus against taking shitty loan offers.

 

The subprime loan business is dirty, but let's also not forget that there are people who can pay them off as well. You just simply cannot take subprime loans off the market because some people are actually able to follow through with the risk instead of getting buried in debt (which is almost 100% because they take loans out that they couldn't possibly pay anyways, but in the hopes of skating by with a low interest rate). It's like I'd love people to stop eating McDonalds, but that is not in the cards.

 

But anyway you spin it, like I said before, these people put their signature on risky loans. No matter how egregiously dirty a business can be, if it's completely legal, then you can only put so much on the business. The loan business is complicated (I know personally, it's a huge part of my parent's business), that's true, but they're required to put everything down for you on record by law. No possible way to get around it. If you sign it, all the binding terms and conditions are yours and yours alone to deal with.

 

If it's going to be between bailing no one out and bailing everyone out, then, yes, fuck 'em. I'm not sure how it's possible to solve or even approach the deep-seeded problems that you talk about in the foreseeable future, but as for now, this is where I'm planting my feet. I've made my case for the subprime loan market and whatever you can extrapolate from that, and it's where I deviate from the left-wing path.

 

But also getting back to the topic, if your pay raise can't really match the rate of inflation, then you kind of have to take it. It's too bad that Marvin got a raise, though.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

Every year I've gotten a raise (i started off very low a few years ago) and I plan to continue that trend.

[EricMM 0]

but pbone we don't operate in a vacuum.

 

Obviously these foreclosures are having a negative effect on our economy, to put it lightly.

 

One one hand you want to see those who caused the problem suffer, on the other hand, their suffering can have a negative impact on you.

[At Home 0]

No, Eric, I don't want to see them suffer. That is the wrong way to put it. In fact, that is exactly how I expected you to misunderstand it and then put it. So, I guess on the flip side, you want to waste my money by giving it to fools? There's a little more to this.

 

There were many reasons that lead into the recession. A country, obviously, doesn't just go into a recession; several economists agree that about 6 months any pundit was beginning to even think about recession, that the economy was beginning to go down. It's a business cycle. With government spending through the roof on the war, pushing GDP and consumption spending up, it had to come to an end sometime. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a recession, it exists to level out wages and the basic forces in the economy.

[EricMM 0]

I'm not talking about suffering.

 

I'm talking about YOUR economy being affected by things like other people going down, Fannie Mae going down, etc.

[At Home 0]

One one hand you want to see those who caused the problem suffer, on the other hand, their suffering can have a negative impact on you.

 

 

I'm not talking about suffering.

 

I'm talking about YOUR economy being affected by things like other people going down, Fannie Mae going down, etc.

 

Well, yes, you are, but that's besides the main point. My other point is that the recession isn't the worst thing in the world. Fannie Mae and the other one are going down because they aren't efficient enough to survive a recession. That's the whole point of a recession.

[snuffbox 0]

I see a correlation between the predatory lenders and the horseshit-spewing military recruiters.

[MrRant 0]

I think that pbone is right in a sense that people should be aware of what a variable interest rate is, however I think he is wrong in regards to everybody knowing the ins and outs of home financing. If you watch Maxed Out, you will see where people went into areas where people had no more than 8th/9th grade educations and convinced them that the loan/credit terms were good for them.

 

Take payday loans. I have no problem with them existing, however I have an issue with some states allowing them to have almost uncapped interest rates where some have interest rates at 45-60%!. 25%? Reasonable since it's usually bad credit people coming in and on a $100 loan it's $125 to pay back. In WA for example people with bad credit can get a car loan but it's capped at like ~27% (this of course makes that $9,000 car like $13,000), could you imagine if it was 60% just to have reliable transportation*?

 

*This assumes credit mistakes in the past and a current history of paying things back on time. Not loaning money to someone who hasn't paid their credit card on time and is late every month for the last 6 years.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

Shame on those people for ruining the economy? Come on. There are a lot of factors at play.

 

Edit: I just read that again. You are such a fucking piece of shit. People "whining and complaining?" ABOUT NOT HAVING AN INCOME? Fuck you.

 

Read it again:

 

Im actually seemingly doing pretty well considering Ive done more this summer than Ive done in the past 2 or 3 summers while everyone else is whining and complaining about not doing anything.

 

Especially the new one.."well of course..gas prices would go down after the summer is over and I couldn't go anywhere on my Vacation.." the next person I hear complaining that they didnt get to go on vacation this year because of gas prices is going to piss me off. The added cost of a couple bucks for gas to go on a trip somewhere isn't keeping them from going if they really wanted to go. People just want to whine and complain and try and make other people miserable so that they feel better somehow.

 

And its not like I came up with this, the guy that runs the Federal Reserve said this..and he must obviously know a lot more about the economy than all of us combined or else he wouldn't have that position..

[snuffbox 0]

Not to argue with a mathematician such as yourself, Marvin, but I do believe that when one travels that couple of dollars of gas has to be multipled by the length of the trip.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

Not to argue with a mathematician such as yourself, Marvin, but I do believe that when one travels that couple of dollars of gas has to be multipled by the length of the trip.

July 2007 gas prices = $3.00 avg

July 2008 = $4

 

Lets say you have a real long road trip and go 1000 total miles round trip. You drive the average american car that gets 25 mpg.

 

Last years cost to go on this trip = $120

This years cost $160

 

$40 is hardly going to keep me from going on this trip, Id cut back somewhere else and still go on the trip. In fact, my 4 main trips this year (NY/NJ, Harrisburg/Hershey PA, Baltimore twice) have come close to doubling that 1000 miles and gas prices didn't keep me from going, but of course my car also gets 40 mpg so..not a fair comparison I guess.

 

To add to the $40 more thing, lots of hotels were running discount rates this summer to fill rooms because people werent traveling as much. If people did a little work, they could probably save well more than the $40 extra in gas on their hotel bills.

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

the guy that runs the Federal Reserve said this..and he must obviously know a lot more about the economy than all of us combined or else he wouldn't have that position..

 

*cough cough*

 

 

And honestly, if you make minimum wage, I don't think the failing economy is going to hurt you that much. If you were making $7 two years ago at Burger King, chances are, you're still making $7 at Burger King now.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

the guy that runs the Federal Reserve said this..and he must obviously know a lot more about the economy than all of us combined or else he wouldn't have that position..

 

*cough cough*

 

 

And honestly, if you make minimum wage, I don't think the failing economy is going to hurt you that much. If you were making $7 two years ago at Burger King, chances are, you're still making $7 at Burger King now.

 

$7.25 next July.

 

The main thing that pissed me off about the article is that someone who works hard to try and get a raise is being told "You shouldn't ask for/take a raise this year to help the economy" and yet the government just gave people who don't do anything to try and improve their situation 2 70 cent raises and another 70 cents in 11 months. If getting raises is going to hurt the economy so much, why don't they put that last 70 cent minimum wage increase on hold?

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

I haven't had a job that paid hourly in over 4 years. What's the annual equivalent of .70 cents per hour? Roughly $1,500?

 

Yeah, I can see that being a big deal to someone.

[EricMM 0]

pbone you realize this credit problem is going to make it harder for YOU to get credit, regardless of your credit rating, no?

 

Just because you don't have a subprime lease doesn't mean the inflation this is causing won't hurt you...

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

I haven't had a job that paid hourly in over 4 years. What's the annual equivalent of .70 cents per hour? Roughly $1,500?

 

Yeah, I can see that being a big deal to someone.

 

With it going from $6.55 to $7.25 its a little bit over 10% raise, maybe thats more associable to your situation.

[At Home 0]

pbone you realize this credit problem is going to make it harder for YOU to get credit, regardless of your credit rating, no?

 

Just because you don't have a subprime lease doesn't mean the inflation this is causing won't hurt you...

 

YES I REALIZE THAT, ERIC. I KNOW WHAT A RECESSION MEANS AND WHAT IT DOES TO REGULAR PEOPLE LIKE YOU AND ME.

[Art Sandusky 0]

pbone. Come on.

 

Marvin, your constant deference to "people who know better" and flagrant self-interest make this shit painful. Did you have a problem with your unsolicited/unearned stimulus check? I mean, you didn't do shit for it, and Americans as a whole footed the bill even though not everyone qualified for it. This is a man who influences my economy (and gets his pay/meals/transport/hookers/whatever from your tax dollars) telling businesses large and small to hold those purse strings tight. You say "fuck the economy, I like getting a raise," on the preconception that people making more money hurts the economy. Who wouldn't? After all, you earned it. Meanwhile, in the land of teenagers and the unskilled, being thrown a bone on minimum wage when their jobs don't offer much in the way of upward income mobility is a terrible idea? It's not like they're being brought up to parity with your job. You're acting like a homeless guy took the whole feast when he only grabbed a couple of cocktail wieners.

[EricMM 0]

So then, pbone, why are you making me out to be some bleeding heart when I'm telling you that without assistance, financial institutions are going down, and dragging all of us down with it?

[Guest Smues]

1.

With unemployment rising and jobs moving overseas, you're probably not in the mood to push it anyway.

Right, because the rising costs of EVERYTHING don't make encourage people to ask for a raise.

 

2. Re: the sub-prime loan fiasco. I do have a little bit of sympathy for the people who didn't know what they were getting into and had greedy lenders shoving these things down their throats. I do, however, think those people are in the minority, and I have no sympathy for A. the lenders, and B. the cocksuckers who saw sky rocketing housing prices and thought "this will never end, and I can make it worse and make a profit!" so they took out these variable interest loans with the intent to flip the house in 6 months. Fuck them for helping artificially inflate the housing market.

 

3. Re: payday loans. 45-60% Rant? That's exactly what most people think and they want to you think. But annualize the rate and watch you brain explode.

 

I went to money tree (TONS of commercials for them in Washington I remember seeing) to see their rates and I was going to annualize the interest rate, but looks like they did the work for me. I can't imagine they did that without some governmental pressure.

 

What's sad is that 391.07% is actually lower than I was expecting.

 

I remember in one of my classes in college we took the current lending rates from some of these places and calculated what you were really paying in annual interest and it topped out at like 600%. Such a joke.

 

Edit: %521.43 in Colorado. That's more like it. Colorado.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

pbone. Come on.

 

Marvin, your constant deference to "people who know better" and flagrant self-interest make this shit painful. Did you have a problem with your unsolicited/unearned stimulus check? I mean, you didn't do shit for it, and Americans as a whole footed the bill even though not everyone qualified for it. This is a man who influences my economy (and gets his pay/meals/transport/hookers/whatever from your tax dollars) telling businesses large and small to hold those purse strings tight. You say "fuck the economy, I like getting a raise," on the preconception that people making more money hurts the economy. Who wouldn't? After all, you earned it. Meanwhile, in the land of teenagers and the unskilled, being thrown a bone on minimum wage when their jobs don't offer much in the way of upward income mobility is a terrible idea? It's not like they're being brought up to parity with your job. You're acting like a homeless guy took the whole feast when he only grabbed a couple of cocktail wieners.

 

My $600 sits still to this day in a bank of America savings account that gets .2% interest by itself. I opened up one of their ripoff savings accounts so that I could put it in the lowest interest baring account I could find. In 10 years it will be worth $612, and I might treat myself to lunch off the $12 interest. I would have put it in a non interest account (read: Normal checking account) but I would have to pay a monthly fee without 1 direct deposit per month so the hassle wasnt worth it. I had originally planned on using it to pay for my trips that I took this summer but I worked a bunch of overtime in May before I went and got unexpected money for my birthday from relatives who Im still aparently in favor with so I didnt have to spend it. Ive vowed to not spend the original $600 ever since I was against the premise of the Chinese Welfare check from the beginning.

 

If the nice people in government pass another stimulus check, it will go in with that one. Maybe if they send enough stimulus checks I'll be able to get a free lunch more often.

[BUTT 0]

pbone you realize this credit problem is going to make it harder for YOU to get credit, regardless of your credit rating, no?

 

Just because you don't have a subprime lease doesn't mean the inflation this is causing won't hurt you...

 

YES I REALIZE THAT, ERIC. I KNOW WHAT A RECESSION MEANS AND WHAT IT DOES TO REGULAR PEOPLE LIKE YOU AND ME.

Regular? Didn't you once say your parents are millionaires?

[EricMM 0]

Marvin you're ridiculous.

 

If you were against the welfare check, you shouldn't have cashed it.

 

If you did cash it, you should use the money...somehow...