Barack Obama's Inauguration

[SuperJerk 0]

More Paliny Goodness...

 

I think the Republican ticket represented too much of the status quo, too much of what had gone on in these last eight years, that Americans were kind of shaking their heads like going, wait a minute, how did we run up a 10 trillion dollar debt in a Republican administration? How have there been blunders with war strategy under a Republican administration? If we're talking change, we want to get far away from what it was that the present administration represented and that is to a great degree what the Republican Party at the time had been representing. So people desiring change I think went as far from the administration that is presently seated as they could. It's amazing that we did as well as we did.

http://www.adn.com/sarah-palin/story/584193.html

 

Honestly, I don't think anyone over the age of 20 should be surprised a Republican Administration could fuck something up, but whatever.

 

+5 points for realizing she is in a party of dimwits, and -20 points for not realizing she's one of the dimwits.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

I've decided to rant a little. A good friend of mine, who is ultra-republican, spent a good portion of last night bitching about the election and the horrible times that we are about to face as a result...and what made it intesting is that he didn't have ONE bad word to say about the last 8 years. Not one. Now he bitched about Clinton policies, and Obama things that haven't happened yet...but he seems to think that the last 8 years have been just fine.

 

So...for no ones benefit but my own mindset...

 

You know what the biggest problem with the Bush administration was?

 

It wasn't the policies that lead us to the brink of econominc depression...

 

It wasn't a war built on a lie that cost thousand's of lives...

 

It was his complete and utter inabilty for forward thinking. Now, everyday we hear about "alternative energy" like we just fucking invented the idea. Where was this concept in government the last 8 years? Nowhere near Bush and Cheney...who are oil men...

 

And the Stem Cell research thing drives me nuts.

 

Let's not experiment to cure FUCKING EVERYTHING...why? Who knows.

 

 

They can do a lot with Adult stem cells..but..no one ever talks about that because its too easy and non controversial.

[SuperJerk 0]

Embryonic stem cells have greater potential, and I'm still waiting for someone to convince me that a 5-7 day old embryo grown in a laboratory is a human being.

[At Home 0]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122611134918910647.html

 

I am starting to like this Rahm guy.

[EricMM 0]

They can do a lot with Adult stem cells..but..no one ever talks about that because its too easy and non controversial.

Yeah, that's probably why.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Well, no one responded to my original question about funding an industry that is already awash in cash.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

Well, here's a basic response: the medical research industry isn't exactly awash with cash. There's a big difference between guys in a lab doing medical research and the broader medical/health care/pharmaceuticals/whatever industry. I believe most access to materials and funding of big-time research comes from government grants.

[BruteSquad_BRODY 0]

Well I guess I've lost interest in the McCain/Obama feud now that we had the blowoff, see y'all in 3 years when the next challenger is built up.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Obama is apparently urging Bush to further bail out the auto industry. I'm not sure if I'm in favor of that or not. It's the fault of companies like GM and Chrysler that they're in the position they're in. Supposedly Obama would require them to develop more fuel efficient and energy friendly vehicles, which I guess would be a plus.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Yeah, I think I'm with you Dobbs. It seems like the Big 3 are basically dinosaurs and are going to fail before too long anyway. A bailout just kind of seems like delaying the inevitable. I would be more interested in helping retrain and help the workers displaced by the failures than preserving their jobs by propping up the companies.

 

I guess if we are going to bail them out, though, it's good to require better fuel efficiency and such. I've heard that Ford, I think, has started going back toward the big gas guzzlers with the advent of lower gas prices.

[PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0]

I've heard that Ford, I think, has started going back toward the big gas guzzlers with the advent of lower gas prices.

 

What? People do realize that dive in gas prices is only temporary, right...?

[Dobbs 3K 0]

A bailout would seem to be a band aid on a gaping wound at this point, if the companies aren't going to seriously change their product philosophies, and streamline operations significantly.

 

I guess what it boils down to is whether or not it would be bad for no more American owned auto production to exist in this country. It seems like the European and Japanese companies are so far ahead of the Big Three, that it's going to be hard for them to remain relevant. What is an American car anymore, frankly? Toyota, BMW, etc. all have production in this country anyway, while GM has moved a lot of production out of the US.

[Nightwing 0]

A bailout would seem to be a band aid on a gaping wound at this point, if the companies aren't going to seriously change their product philosophies, and streamline operations significantly.

 

I guess what it boils down to is whether or not it would be bad for no more American owned auto production to exist in this country. It seems like the European and Japanese companies are so far ahead of the Big Three, that it's going to be hard for them to remain relevant. What is an American car anymore, frankly? Toyota, BMW, etc. all have production in this country anyway, while GM has moved a lot of production out of the US.

 

Do you even know what you're talking about? Even if they've moved some of their production out of the country, they still have dozens of suppliers here in the US along with a sizeable employee base still in the US. Letting them go under would be much worse for the economy, because you'd be killing the dozens of suppliers they hold up but don't own.

 

The Auto industry is starting to catch up, but the problem is that they've had no government assistance at all in the last 8 years (I'm not counting "boosting car loans", since that barely addresses the problems. That is a band-aid on a bullet wound). Bush's first meeting with them was last year, and lasted all of 30 minutes. I agree on better gas efficiency (I don't know where you've heard your rumor from, but it's simply not possible for the auto industry to just "start" making gas-guzzlers at the drop of a hat, when it's only been all of two months with low gas) and such, but they need some actual assistance. At the very least, their package more directly helps the people than the bailout to AIG did.

 

The last estimate I've seen in the paper, 3 million jobs would be lost in the first year. But hey, who knows what an American car is anyways, right?

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Do you even know what you're talking about? Even if they've moved some of their production out of the country, they still have dozens of suppliers here in the US along with a sizeable employee base still in the US. Letting them go under would be much worse for the economy, because you'd be killing the dozens of suppliers they hold up but don't own.

 

Oh, hell yes, I know. I live less than half an hour away from a GM plant that is closing before the end of the year, and that closure could affect as many as between 5,000-10,000 local jobs, depending on who you listen to (numbers are including local suppliers that are closing, and other service industries). One of my best friends was already laid off from there. The thing is, this is already happening. I don't know if a ton of money from the government is necessarily going to guarantee any kind of long term solution.

[Nightwing 0]

Do you even know what you're talking about? Even if they've moved some of their production out of the country, they still have dozens of suppliers here in the US along with a sizeable employee base still in the US. Letting them go under would be much worse for the economy, because you'd be killing the dozens of suppliers they hold up but don't own.

 

Oh, hell yes, I know. I live less than half an hour away from a GM plant that is closing before the end of the year, and that closure could affect as many as between 5,000-10,000 local jobs, depending on who you listen to (numbers are including local suppliers that are closing, and other service industries). One of my best friends was already laid off from there. The thing is, this is already happening. I don't know if a ton of money from the government is necessarily going to guarantee any kind of long term solution.

 

For this industry? I'd say yes. You think it's happening, but it's not yet. 3,000,000 jobs PERMANENTLY lost in the US alone has not happened yet, not to mention possibly more on the way. Even if the foreign automakers expand 20% like the articles says they do, that's still an 80% loss on the market. We are talking the loss of a massive amount of business that the US has never seen before. To let the auto industry fail would be foolish and dangerous; Obama understands this and that's why he's pushing hard to get something through.

 

And just to say: People are harsh on the Auto Industry for making these trucks and SUVs, but you should remember that the people wanted them. They bought them, they demanded bigger, flashier stuff, and the Big 3 were happy to oblige. They've been trying to make changes, but it doesn't help that Bush has given the entirety of Michigan the cold shoulder after we gave him the finger back in 2000.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

People were happy to buy them, yes. They were catering to immediate market demand, but they should have been able to see the bigger, more long term, picture. The writing was on the wall and they decided to go for the quick bucks, rather than prepare for the future.

 

As far as Bush, would you rather he went the Mitt Romney route and started promising people jobs that were never going to come back?

[2GOLD 0]

I've heard that Ford, I think, has started going back toward the big gas guzzlers with the advent of lower gas prices.

 

What? People do realize that dive in gas prices is only temporary, right...?

 

Apparently they are asleep every winter when gas drops like this and then skyrockets again usually in mid-December to January. They should be doing what Toyota and those companies are doing instead of creating 40,000 dollar SUVs and gas guzzling pick-up trucks that maybe a percent of the nation will be able to buy. The Japan companies are making pick-ups and SUVs that are powerful AND get gas mileage at 20% less than the price of American vehicles. That is the definition of doom for the American auto industry.

 

[Nightwing 0]

People were happy to buy them, yes. They were catering to immediate market demand, but they should have been able to see the bigger, more long term, picture. The writing was on the wall and they decided to go for the quick bucks, rather than prepare for the future.

 

As far as Bush, would you rather he went the Mitt Romney route and started promising people jobs that were never going to come back?

I applauded McCain for saying that the jobs weren't coming back, if you are willing to search through the hundreds of posts for it. I'm not idiot.

 

I don't think that the Auto Industry is going to become as big as it once was. But just abandoning the industry? To me, that's stupid, and the numbers indicate as such.

 

Apparently they are asleep every winter when gas drops like this and then skyrockets again usually in mid-December to January. They should be doing what Toyota and those companies are doing instead of creating 40,000 dollar SUVs and gas guzzling pick-up trucks that maybe a percent of the nation will be able to buy. The Japan companies are making pick-ups and SUVs that are powerful AND get gas mileage at 20% less than the price of American vehicles. That is the definition of doom for the American auto industry.

 

Christ, do I have to say this again? It's what the consumer wanted. I understand that it was short-sighted, but to act like they were doing this despite people wanting the gas-efficient cars, you have to recognize American consumers for wanting these sorts of cars. The sudden skyrocket in gas prices killed them, and they've been actually working hard to get back to where they were (They've actually jumped a great deal across the board when it comes to the quality of cars). They've been putting a lot of development into hybrids and alternative energy cars, I doubt they're going to do a fucking reverse course now, so if you'd just shut the fuck up with a stupid, unconfirmed and (from a manufacturing standpoint) impossible rumor, it'd be nice.

 

Secondly, you realize that this drop in gas is not a regular gas drop, and shouldn't be compared to what you are talking about. We have gas at about $1.99 in Detroit (Likely to be lower after they remove the 19 cent gas tax), something that hasn't happened since gas started skyrocketing. So before you start up with your "OMG REVELATION", take into account that this gas drop is not the traditional one and shouldn't be taken as such, though I wouldn't bank on it lasting much more than a year or so (if that).

 

If I sound a little irate, it's because I've been dealing with so many people who are just ready to say "Fuck off, Auto Industry" without realizing that it's going to do serious permanent damage to the US Economy. You think it's bad now? Letting go of the Auto Industry is basically going to put manufacturing into a fucking nosedive.

[NoCalMike 0]

People were happy to buy them, yes. They were catering to immediate market demand, but they should have been able to see the bigger, more long term, picture. The writing was on the wall and they decided to go for the quick bucks, rather than prepare for the future.

 

As far as Bush, would you rather he went the Mitt Romney route and started promising people jobs that were never going to come back?

I applauded McCain for saying that the jobs weren't coming back, if you are willing to search through the hundreds of posts for it. I'm not idiot.

 

I don't think that the Auto Industry is going to become as big as it once was. But just abandoning the industry? To me, that's stupid, and the numbers indicate as such.

 

Apparently they are asleep every winter when gas drops like this and then skyrockets again usually in mid-December to January. They should be doing what Toyota and those companies are doing instead of creating 40,000 dollar SUVs and gas guzzling pick-up trucks that maybe a percent of the nation will be able to buy. The Japan companies are making pick-ups and SUVs that are powerful AND get gas mileage at 20% less than the price of American vehicles. That is the definition of doom for the American auto industry.

 

Christ, do I have to say this again? It's what the consumer wanted. I understand that it was short-sighted, but to act like they were doing this despite people wanting the gas-efficient cars, you have to recognize American consumers for wanting these sorts of cars. The sudden skyrocket in gas prices killed them, and they've been actually working hard to get back to where they were (They've actually jumped a great deal across the board when it comes to the quality of cars). They've been putting a lot of development into hybrids and alternative energy cars, I doubt they're going to do a fucking reverse course now, so if you'd just shut the fuck up with a stupid, unconfirmed and (from a manufacturing standpoint) impossible rumor, it'd be nice.

 

Secondly, you realize that this drop in gas is not a regular gas drop, and shouldn't be compared to what you are talking about. We have gas at about 1.99 in Detroit (Likely to be lower after they remove the 19 cent gas tax), something that hasn't happened since gas started skyrocketing. So before you start up with your "OMG REVELATION", take into account that this gas drop is not the traditional one and shouldn't be taken as such, though I wouldn't bank on it lasting much more than a year or so (if that).

 

If I sound a little irate, it's because I've been dealing with so many people who are just ready to say "Fuck off, Auto Industry" without realizing that it's going to do serious permanent damage to the US Economy. You think it's bad now? Letting go of the Auto Industry is basically going to put manufacturing into a fucking nosedive.

 

Well sure they wanted those cars, but millions of dollars went into advertising those cars. First it was all the advertising about driving in rough terrain, to make men feel like a "real man" driving around in the mountains. Then when that wasn't even good enough millions more was spent on advertising to soccer moms falsing claiming how much safer it would be to be driving around a huge SUV on the road.

 

I am not saying that people themselves aren't somewhat responsible, but these corporations have very expensive and clever advertisement departments for a reason.

 

Also, under Bush weren't potential car buyers getting flaunted with a tax break for buying these things? When it should have been the other way around, people getting tax breaks for buying fuel efficient cars?

 

[At Home 0]

I'd be quite pleased to see oil stay as low as this for the next coming months. I don't drive a car, but it would be nice to see the collapse of Saudi Arabia and Iran to give way to less ridiculous governments.

[Nightwing 0]

Well sure they wanted those cars, but millions of dollars went into advertising those cars. First it was all the advertising about driving in rough terrain, to make men feel like a "real man" driving around in the mountains. Then when that wasn't even good enough millions more was spent on advertising to soccer moms falsing claiming how much safer it would be to be driving around a huge SUV on the road.

 

Do you know anyone who doesn't advertise their product? People aren't complete sheep; they wanted those sorts of status symbol type cars. It's not like the Automakers brainwashed them.

 

I am not saying that people themselves aren't somewhat responsible, but these corporations have very expensive and clever advertisement departments for a reason.

 

They have advertising departments to advertise their products. People didn't care about gas mileage until things skyrocketed under Bush, which then made them say "Well, it's your fault!" when they were the ones they were catering to. I'm not taking the full blame off the Auto Industry, which has been fighting like a little bitch against CAFE standards for the longest time, but I disagree with this "The Auto Industry led themselves into this" when American attitudes towards gas was a big factor.

 

Also, under Bush weren't potential car buyers getting flaunted with a tax break for buying these things? When it should have been the other way around, people getting tax breaks for buying fuel efficient cars?

 

I'm almost dead-sure that you're wrong, and that it's the other way around, like hybrids. I don't think that's something that a person like you would forget.

 

I'd be quite pleased to see oil stay as low as this for the next coming months. I don't drive a car, but it would be nice to see the collapse of Saudi Arabia and Iran to give way to less ridiculous governments.

 

Iran actually has a rather large student movement with fairly liberal values. It'd be great to see that situation just work itself out, though that's "Mission: Accomplished" levels of optimism.

[Nightwing 0]

Moving back away from the Auto Industry, RoboJerk talked about Robert Gates possibly being held over from the Bush Administration. Apparently, he is getting a bit of resistance on that. I'm good with Gates, though Hagel as a bipartisan choice really makes sense for me as well.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Also, under Bush weren't potential car buyers getting flaunted with a tax break for buying these things? When it should have been the other way around, people getting tax breaks for buying fuel efficient cars?

 

I'm almost dead-sure that you're wrong, and that it's the other way around, like hybrids. I don't think that's something that a person like you would forget.

 

I think NoCal is probably thinking about the "light truck exception", which allows SUV manufacturers to produce vehicles with lower CAFE standards and thus really crappy emissions levels.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Moving back away from the Auto Industry, RoboJerk talked about Robert Gates possibly being held over from the Bush Administration. Apparently, he is getting a bit of resistance on that. I'm good with Gates, though Hagel as a bipartisan choice really makes sense for me as well.

 

I'm okay with Gates. He seems competent, qualified and pretty much, as far as I can tell, amenable to Obama's stances on Iraq & Afghanistan. Nuclear proliferation is another issue...but I think Obama can bring Gates in line.

 

I'm also cool with not punishing Lieberman. Although I think he's a complete tool, I think the symbolism of Obama pardoning him (I'm thinking of the scene with the bad guy from Schindler's List...) is more powerful and ultimately more politically savvy than stripping him of his chairmanship and shunning him. I also think that Lieberman's such a narcissist that he can be brought in line by stroking his ego.

 

[panthermatt7 0]

A bailout would seem to be a band aid on a gaping wound at this point, if the companies aren't going to seriously change their product philosophies, and streamline operations significantly.

 

I guess what it boils down to is whether or not it would be bad for no more American owned auto production to exist in this country. It seems like the European and Japanese companies are so far ahead of the Big Three, that it's going to be hard for them to remain relevant. What is an American car anymore, frankly? Toyota, BMW, etc. all have production in this country anyway, while GM has moved a lot of production out of the US.

 

 

The Auto industry is starting to catch up, but the problem is that they've had no government assistance at all in the last 8 years (I'm not counting "boosting car loans", since that barely addresses the problems. That is a band-aid on a bullet wound). Bush's first meeting with them was last year, and lasted all of 30 minutes. I agree on better gas efficiency (I don't know where you've heard your rumor from, but it's simply not possible for the auto industry to just "start" making gas-guzzlers at the drop of a hat, when it's only been all of two months with low gas) and such, but they need some actual assistance. At the very least, their package more directly helps the people than the bailout to AIG did.

 

 

Supply side economists would argue that no industry should have to be 'supported' by the government, and if it's not self-sufficient, keeping it on life support would only prolong and deepen the resulting market correction once it fully fails.

 

I'm not sure which side is correct in this argument, to be honest...

 

[At Home 0]

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

Inauguration rentals in the greater DC area are already insane. My coworker's been offered $3500 for three nights in her shitty 2BR/den on Capitol Hill. All the hotels are already booked, so super-enthusiastic Obamamaniacs and people with money to burn are trying to lock up residential housing. Time to make that cheddar and spend a few nights on the street, y'all.

[SuperJerk 0]

The polls were pretty much dead on. Only exception was Alaska (President, Senate, & Congress all seemed to have been off there for some reason).

 

Maybe due to the election being called for Obama before voting ended in Alaska.

 

HEY, GUESS WHAT, EVERYBODY!!!!!

 

More than 90,000 votes remain uncounted in Alaska.

[SuperJerk 0]

More "we lost because we weren't conservative enough" nonsense.

[At Home 0]

Obama places new restrictions on lobbyists