Kanye West - 808s & Heartbreak

[Smartly Pretty 0]

Kanye usually has the power to literally catch me during a song

Is that like one of those team-building exercises you have to do with other men in the middle of a forest?

 

I'm editor of the school newspaper, and the other day I got a Twilight movie review sent to me titled "Twilight Bites. Literally." and I thought of you.

[Annabelle 0]

rap fans are the fucking worst. they're the only people who never want their musical genre to progress and do anything new and exciting. they just sit on their ass and hope for illmatic and aquemini to be made over and over again by their respective artist. this album isn't mind blowing, but its not bad. kanye should be applauded for doing something new instead of lord i'm hard as fuck curry trashing it because its not rap. even czech likes it. and even if you don't like it, don't trash the guy for actually taking a risk. look at mobb deep. ya. nas? been making the same album for almost 15 years. boring. i like rap. i even like nas. but serious rap fans can be fucking annoying.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Actually, most real hip hop fans want something new and exciting. I don`t know if your sample extends beyond TSM, but hip hop and rap are all about self-expression and I would say most serious rap fans know this.

 

Rap being about personal expression means your music evolves along with your own personal tastes and goals of what you try to make. This is to be expected, so I`m not gonna applaud the man for trying to do something different. The reason why it`s rare though is that the genre has gotten really decadent for the past decade or so. Raekwon trying to recreate the magic of Built 4 Cuban Linx is a pretty good example of this by using the fucking name to make some cheap hype. Just lazy in my opinion, but who knows, maybe the similarities end at the title, though I`m skeptical.

 

I`m not hating on Kanye for trying to be different, but if it`s not that good then it`s not that good.

 

Also I`ll attribute your comments about Nas to you being extreme to prove a point. If you really think Illmatic is the same as It Was Written is the same as God`s Son then you`re fucking dense.

[Annabelle 0]

come on. nas gritty little rap shtick has been going on a little too long. have some fun, nas.

 

real rap fans? now you're blurring the lines. they just want the same old shit. anytime anyone like outkast or snoop tries anything different they get blasted. just like how everyone puts down andre 3000 and begs him to rap again. they don't want their artists to evolve, they want them to stay the same and do the same thing. rap. maybe rap stars don't want to rap. but thats what "real rap fans" want. hence, real rap fans aren't music fans, they are rap fans. which makes them the worst.

[Copper Feel 0]

I don't really think wanting rappers to continue rapping is the mark of a bad fan...

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I think you can say that about any genre though, in terms of fans getting pissed off. When someone like U2 tries to make an electronic record they alienate a bunch of people in their fan base. In metal, fans get pissed all the time about bands going soft, whether true or not. Dumb fans spread across genres. I dont think its fair to single out rap.

 

As for Nas, thats not really fair. Those albums all have a very different sound, sure hes gritty but thats his style and he still manages to mix it up in terms of content. When will Daft Punk and Justice stop making records all about partying? Who cares? Nas tried to have fun and it didnt really work (Oochie wally wally is terrible). Mix it up, but as long as youre putting out varied material I dont see the problem in sticking to your strengths.

[Guest Czecherbear]

I'd go out on a limb and say U2 is more popular after Achtung Baby than they were before.

 

I've never really been able to parse the whole Kanye West equation. Everyone concedes that no, he doesn't have a very good voice, and his flow isn't anything great, and his lyrics are all pretty dopey, and the inter-song skits are stupid, and he probably over-relies on guest artists, but his albums are always best of the year or contending for it. So what was he doing that was fantastic? Looping Steely Dan and Curtis Mayfield? I can do that. At least with this, I can easily point out things he did that I like. Things I don't like, too, but his talent is clearer here than it is on "I shop so much I speak Italian" or whatever.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I was thinking of the Discotheque-type stuff that they did later on.

[Annabelle 0]

each of daft punk's albums have been very much different from one another. a lot, actually. and the fans enjoyed discovery just as much as homework. the only thing they have in common is that people can dance to them. everything else was much different. thanks for proving my point, though.

 

there are a lot of variations of metal wich appeased a wide array of fans. there isn't that in rap. its just rap. and the weak shit where rappers complain about other rappers. but its all rap. no growth allowed. and i like rap. but don't sugarcoat it.

[Steviekick 0]

I was thinking of the Discotheque-type stuff that they did later on.

 

U2 did more to turn off fans with its Zooropa album. To date, they've yet to bust out a song from that album during any of their US concerts.

[Annabelle 0]

is anyone gonna use the example of radiohead?

 

oh ya/.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

I was thinking of the Discotheque-type stuff that they did later on.

 

U2 did more to turn off fans with its Zooropa album. To date, they've yet to bust out a song from that album during any of their US concerts.

I'm pretty sure they've played both "Stay" and "The First Time" on a few occasions.

[Steviekick 0]

I was thinking of the Discotheque-type stuff that they did later on.

 

U2 did more to turn off fans with its Zooropa album. To date, they've yet to bust out a song from that album during any of their US concerts.

I'm pretty sure they've played both "Stay" and "The First Time" on a few occasions.

My bad... A little research and its the title track that doesn't really get played live.

[Jaxxson Mayhem 0]

Everyone does it.

 

 

Kiss went disco and were shit on by their fans.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

real rap fans? now you're blurring the lines. they just want the same old shit. anytime anyone like outkast or snoop tries anything different they get blasted. just like how everyone puts down andre 3000 and begs him to rap again. they don't want their artists to evolve, they want them to stay the same and do the same thing. rap. maybe rap stars don't want to rap. but thats what "real rap fans" want. hence, real rap fans aren't music fans, they are rap fans. which makes them the worst.

 

Not really. Rap fans wanted Dre to rap again because...he's a really great rapper. Crazy, huh? And it's not a case of wanting him, or other rappers for that matter, to say the same thing on every album. Few artists have changed up their style from one album to the next as much as OutKast, both musically and stylistically. Dre's guest verses over the last two or three years are evidence of his ability switch up his subject matter and garner praise from rap fans across the board.

[CBright7831 0]

I still dont understand why Kanye changed the hook (chorus) of the song to Love Lockdown:

 

Original:

 

 

Updated version:

 

 

The original sounds so much better.

[Annabelle 0]

real rap fans? now you're blurring the lines. they just want the same old shit. anytime anyone like outkast or snoop tries anything different they get blasted. just like how everyone puts down andre 3000 and begs him to rap again. they don't want their artists to evolve, they want them to stay the same and do the same thing. rap. maybe rap stars don't want to rap. but thats what "real rap fans" want. hence, real rap fans aren't music fans, they are rap fans. which makes them the worst.

 

Not really. Rap fans wanted Dre to rap again because...he's a really great rapper. Crazy, huh? And it's not a case of wanting him, or other rappers for that matter, to say the same thing on every album. Few artists have changed up their style from one album to the next as much as OutKast, both musically and stylistically. Dre's guest verses over the last two or three years are evidence of his ability switch up his subject matter and garner praise from rap fans across the board.

andre 3000 was shit on by rap fans for the love below. nice try, though.

 

dr dre can rap about whatever he wants. but if he radically changed his production style on detox it would get shit all over. guarenteed. or if dr dre started producing songs for lady gaga or whoever the fuck.

[Jaxxson Mayhem 0]

Dr. Dre doesn't write his own shit. He has many ghostwriters for him.

[Steviekick 0]

Everyone does it.

 

Kiss went disco and were shit on by their fans.

 

That always made sense, since they were on a freaking disco label. I think the four solo albums killed Kiss.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

andre 3000 was shit on by rap fans for the love below. nice try, though.

 

Nice try, what? Where did I say anything about people not dogging Dre for that album? In fact, where did I even MENTION that album?

[Annabelle 0]

andre 3000 was shit on by rap fans for the love below. nice try, though.

 

Nice try, what? Where did I say anything about people not dogging Dre for that album? In fact, where did I even MENTION that album?

but thats my point. you said he changes his style musically and stylistically with every album. and when he made his biggest change, rap fans turned on him. you proved my point without actually mentioning the album.

[Copper Feel 0]

But he's good at rapping and The Love Below is by far the poorest thing he has ever done.

[Annabelle 0]

But he's good at rapping and The Love Below is by far the poorest thing he has ever done.

why, though? Because its actually bad or because rap fans say its bad because he's not rapping?

[daileyxplanet 0]

Having listened to this album, I'll agree that it's definitely not hip-hop but I do like it.

[Henry Spencer 0]

why, though? Because its actually bad or because rap fans say its bad because he's not rapping?

 

Because it's actually bad.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

I don't think it's bad, but it's just not fleshed out. Too many different ideas and not enough time spent exploring them.

 

My point was that OutKast changed their style over the course of their first four albums. Dre rapped on all of them, but he expanded his horizons vis-a-vis what he rapped about. He caught shit for The Love Below, sure. But his guest verses from 2006 onward have been fantastic and discussing subjects he wouldn't have been touching in 1994 or even 2000. But fans are still digging it. That was my point.

 

And for the record, while perhaps not an OutKast album proper, the worst album in their catalog is Idlewild.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

Finally gave this a proper listen, and...I love it. The instrumentals--not sure it feels right calling them "beats"--are really compelling and a hugely interesting turn for him. Several of the songs ride on out on instrumental finales that seem to go on forever, but in a good way. I'm thinking of "Say You Will" and "Bad News" in particular there. "RoboCop" is gorgeous and awesome. I think the autotuner worked great on pretty much the whole album. Lyrics have a few great lines mixed in among some very melodramatic but ultimately not that bothersome pap. Lil Wayne's guest spot is totally unhinged and makes him sound like a pissed-off spider about to straight eat somebody. This album is delightful.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

"Robocop" gets better and better, but the whole Robocop metaphor doesn't work for me. It'd be like writing a breakup song called "Howard the Duck." Still, though! Viva La Vida strings! E Street Shuffle glockenspiel! Saturdays = Youth crushing drum machines! He calls his ex Robocop!

I was kinda rolling with it, very tenuously. In Robocop, Murphy gets killed by thugs but comes back as this big cyborg badass who isn't aware of anything about his past, his family, and so on. No emotions at all, as he's just a super-powered vessel for processes and commands, with really nothing human about him except his face and some brains. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to see where someone could get the emotionless/no longer invested in the past vibe out of an ex-girlfriend and a failed relationship.

 

That said, I completely agree that Kanye might just have barked "man, that bitch is like a...like a...like a Robocop" while hanging out stoned with his buddies one night, and then Mos Def claps back "DEAD OR ALIVE YOU'RE COMING WITH ME," and they giggle for hours, and then stumble into the studio in the morning mumbling "I got an idea."

 

[Guest Czecherbear]

In Robocop, Murphy gets killed by thugs but comes back as this big cyborg badass who isn't aware of anything about his past, his family, and so on. No emotions at all, as he's just a super-powered vessel for processes and commands, with really nothing human about him except his face and some brains. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to see where someone could get the emotionless/no longer invested in the past vibe out of an ex-girlfriend and a failed relationship.

Yeah whatever, Edwin DiCrescenzo.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]